SiobhanP (in pertinent part)writes: "What pubs are you advising them to watch out for with their daughters????"

" ... Rosemary Mahoney does tell us about such places that many Irish-Americans in the U.S. would deny existed. Their response would probably be: "There's none of that in Ireland!"

I was referring specifically to Gay or Lesbian hangouts! My comment was: "There are such Pubs in Ireland, especially in large cities such as Dublin. Advise your daughters to be careful!"

Read my post again: I did not advise Melissa5 and her husband to watch out for any pubs with their daughters. I'm assuming the girls will be allowed to go off on their own: Two young ladies (19 & 20 YO) have probably been exposed to the 'Gay' scene in San Diego or some other cities in California or Baja California (Mexico). In addition to Gay & Lesbian Pubs, I've come across 'Biker-type' or Biker wannabee (leather jackets & engineer boots, etc.) Pubs in Ireland where I wouldn't want my daughter to go either.

Why would your daughters be afraid of gay bikers?... Are we talking bicycles or motorbikes?

SibhanP, it makes sense to me that rounds would be more for friends or family visiting pubs as a group.

I know what you mean about some strangers either talk your ear off, and don't even let you "interrupt", or else they ask nosy questions. Especially if you are a pregnant woman, oh boy do you get the nosy questions! Why does any stranger think it's okay to ask a pregnant woman, or any woman, how much weight she has gained?! :-@ (No, I'm not pregnant, just remembering!)

Now and then you meet someone that you can really connect with on some subject. A memorable conversation results...it could be humorous, philosophical, or about a local topic...We love these conversations when they happen.

Other times you need to get away from a talker who is hogging all the airwaves!>:O Time to head for the ladies room.... I had a friend who had a snappy answer to people who asked her questions she didn't want to answer. She said, "That's for me to know and you to find out." (She was only 15 at the time, and they never did "find out" anything!);)

If any Americans are asking you personal questions, it is considered rude here too! I guess there are some folks who think that other people exist solely for their own entertainment. Perhaps your Guiness would accidentally find itself spilled in their lap. :-P

Always nice chatting with you.

Just to let you all know, we live in southern California. Generally speaking, Southern California is very gay-friendly. It is accepted here that no one should be discriminated against because of their sexual persuasion. In fact "we" as a culture here are onto new avenues, espcially the youth here...bi-sexuality is the new thing now. Our young people are quite accepting of each other. (I am generalizing here.)

I am saying this without any judgement. While it isn't part of my life (I'm married with 3 young adult kids and fairly conservative), it is accepted here that folks have the right to any sexual persuasion of their choice.

If I was going to worry about my daughters going off on their own, since they here hetero-sexual, I think I should worry about whether any men are going to come on too strong.

Also popular among youth in southern California is the gay stright alliance, which is encouraging young people to get along. It hosts dances and social gatherings where gays and straights can socialize in an accepted atmosphere.

Anyway we are getting way off the track here!

Melissa5:

"off-track?" Hardly. Enlightenment can take place in venues other than bars; acceptance is, of course, an entirely different matter.

Melissa,
You have sparked a very interesting thread of postings. As an American who has been going to pubs for almost 40 years, I can tell you that they are not all the same, so use all of this advice as guidance but not as written in stone. Also, what experiences you have may not necessarily match those of other Americans. Also remember that Irish pubs are not just frequented by Irish people - you will find Americans like yourselves and you will also find a broad mix of Europeans who are visiting, or living/working in Ireland - I think the last count said there are over 100 languages now spoken in Ireland. So be prepared for diversity even in the country towns. The person next to you may be Polish or Hungarian or Romanian, or British or German, not necessarily Irish-born.
Also, I am not sure if anyone pointed out to you but Irish law prohibits anyone under 18 years of age in bars after 9 p.m. (except for May 1st until September 30th when the curfew is 10 p.m.). In addition, older teens (between 18 and 20) must have photographic identification (e.g. passport) to enter a pub after 9 p.m. So be prepared for that too, for your daughters' sakes. I have details on these new rules on my web site, www.IrelandExpert.com, in case you want to get the full scoop. I also have a Forum, if you want to ask any questions.
It sounds like you will have a great trip - you certainly are preparing well. I am heading over myself next month. Maybe we'll see you there! And if we meet in a pub, we'll have to buy each other a drink!
PAT

Dukey: My Dad, who is very conservative, always ends disagreements by politely saying, "I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree." I always admired his diplomacy. I agree, enlightenment can take place whenever and wherever you seek it.

PAT: Thanks for your response and interest. I am curious to check out your forum...we'll be in Ireland for the middle 2 weeks of July. Sometimes the forums keep my sanity as I prepare for trips...other times I think they make me slightly insane! ;)

My daughters are 19 and 20, and I am wondering if a California driver's license is sufficient I.D. for the pubs. (Not sure if I want tipsy young adults carrying around their passports...) Not that I want them getting very tipsy either!!! O-)

Hi Melissa,

Two January's ago I found myself in Dublin alone over my birthday weekend. My second night there which was a Friday I went to a pub in Temple Bar alone. Can't recall the name but it on a corner was 3 floors and well known.

I wasn't nervous about being alone but this place was packed and I didn't want to seem like a wallflower. I walked around to the back of the bar shimmied myself between a bunch of guys and ordered a Grand Marnier. Bartender told me it was called a sticky bottle because noone really drinks it and the bottle just gets sticky in the back of the shelf.

He asked me where I was from, if I was alone and introduced me to a girl who frequents Dublin from Boston. She in turn introduced me to her group of friends all guys and for the rest of the night we all took turns buying rounds. I told them the next night was my birthday. They said come back here and we'll have a party for you.

Well, I went back Saturday night and there they all were- they didn't let me buy that night I was the birthday girl. One of the best times I ever had.

Hi

We love travelling in Ireland and have found good people and good food in pubs.

Many Irishmen love to sing in the pubs and when we're enjoying the songs we generally send some drinks over to the singers. They've always come over thanked us and sat with us singing and talking and being kind to these Americans.

One time in a little town (Lisvoondarna) we entered a small pub and there were only a few people there. The bartender took our order and chatted, then excused himself. Five minutes later some people came in and talked with us also. Bartender continued to excuse himself to the back and within short time periods more and more townspeople came in to talk with the Americans. Turns out the bartender was calling neighbors/friends to come on over and visit. We sat and talked and sang (some Elvis Presley songs had five verses) until well after midnight with everyone buying drinks. it was one of the nicest pub visits we ever had.

Enjoy - the Irish are so friendly.

I went to Dublin for four days while my hubby was there on business this winter. I went to three different pubs. They were located in residential, bedroom communities (so, no tourists). I thought they'd be like England, where you have to order at the bar and are into the social interaction right away. WRONG. There were only single guys watching sports seated at the bar. All the couples and groups of friends were at cozy tables chatting away. It was way cozier and more homey than I'd imagined, romantic actually. When I mentioned my observations to my husband, he showed me his digital pics from before I'd arrived---him with crowds at the pubs, posing, toasting...clearly having a heck of a time. He's 6'7" and they all thought he was either an American football player or there to research his heritage. When he informed the locals that he didn't have a drop of Irish blood but just loved good beer, they tried to arm wrestle, buy him beers and in general welcome him into the fold. I knew I married an outgoing guy, but geez!

I think with your hubby, you will have a completely different experience, as will your young daughters, than you might imagine. Be more outgoing than me!

laartista, what a fun birthday! Thanks for sharing your story about pubbing in Dublin. ((^)) We won't be in Dublin on this trip, but I plan to spend several nights there on our next trip.

LN: That's one thing you don't tend to hear over here in the USA...nobody sings in public places unless they are the hired entertainment. We are only allowed to sing in the shower. :-P

susanteach: Your hubby knows how to have a good time! Sometimes I am shy, but when we went to St. Kitts recently, I wanted to meet the locals. So while we were sitting at a long wooden table waiting for our dinners to come and drinking local beer, I decided to introduce us to the fellow sitting across from us. He then introduced us to his companions. It sure made the night more interesting. Afterwards hubby said I had astonished him, as we've been married almost 25 years and where had his wallflower wife gone?! (She decided life is too short to be a wallflower.;)

Melissa says: "CAILIN: I guess I'm getting old. If I had 5 drinks in one night I would end up like this: 8-) :-d O-) @-):& "

You don't necessarily have to drink alcohol all night. Quite frequently I will get a sparkling water or a sprite instead of an alcoholic drink in a round.

There's quite a lot of good pub info on this site: http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html

Yes, it is British pub etiquette and not Irish, but from my experience and from the replies on this thread, it applies to quite an extent in Ireland too.

As others have said, don't expect every pub to be the same. In some you'll find people ready to talk, in others you won't.

Remember you don't have to drink alcohol in these pubs - soft drinks, coffee or pot of tea are also fine.

Another Irish pub thought - every song had five (5) stanzas and that included every song that Elvis ever sang. Oh, did they love that man.

On a final note I would not worry about any of the pubs in Ireland unless they were in certain innercity areas that you will never be visiting anyway. They are the only pubs I would avoid. As for Biker bars...I have not seen may but for example Bruxelles on Harry Street off Grafton st in Dublin has a lot of bikers who park their motorcycles across from it in the afternoons/evenings. Totally harmless people its just the image that scares people off of bikers. They also have heavy metal in the basement at weekends and I have never seen a problem the few times I had been there.

The places I would avoid would be empty city bars with alcoholic old fellas or in certain innercity areas that you will never come across as a tourist

We're leaving in a few more days and I'll tell you all about our Irish pub experience when we return! Thanks for the fun sneak-preview of everybody else's viewpoint on pubs. ((H))

I agree with Siobhan and the other Irish posters, dont take too much notice of what you read in books about Irish pubs, they are like most pubs anywhere else, you go in buy your drink and sit down and enjoy the night. I agree its a bit different in rural area's where you are more likely to talk with the locals, but in most Dublin pubs or other big cities, most people just keep to themselves or the group the arrived with.

lucielou, everybody keeps saying pubs in Ireland are like bars everywhere, but I wouldn't know what bars everywhere are like...because I haven't been to any bars (or pubs) anywhere for 30 years!!! So all the viewpoints here on this posting have been interesting for me.

Hubby and I go to restaurants, movies, plays, and sometimes our church has interesting social gatherings like they had an Irish night and a salsa night (our priest is Irish). So we're looking forward to pubbing as something different for us.

Mellissa,I love Ireland and have been there 3 times in the last year. The Pubs and local music are something not to be missed. Amazing! I would like to give you one word of caution though. Most everyone in Ireland is friendly and kind and I could not say enough good things about them. Here is what i would like to caution you about. People want to talk politics. Not only do they want to talk politics but they want to tell you exactly what is wrong with the usa and our goverment and our people. All in all as a high leavel conversation it is no big deal. But the more people drink the more nasty the conversation gets. One day we My girlfriends and I had gone

Mellissa, I love Ireland and have been there 3 times in the last year. The Pubs and local music are something not to be missed. Amazing! I would like to give you one word of caution though. Most everyone in Ireland is friendly and kind and I could not say enough good things about them. Here is what I would like to caution you about. People want to talk politics. Not only do they want to talk politics, but they want to tell you exactly what is wrong with the USA , our government, and our people. All in all as a high level conversation it is no big deal. But the more people drink the more nasty the conversation gets. One day we( my girlfriends and I) had gone to 3 different pubs in 4 hours and had to leave each pub because it was just getting too out of hand with the shouting over the United states politics. One of my girlfriends was in tears it was so bad. My suggestion to you is this. When someone wants to talk politics especial American politics with you in a pub politely explain to them you are on vacation and would rather not talk politics. Other wise have a great time. If you go to Galway make sure you go to Taffy's Pub . They have great music there.

More evidence that pubs differ, and people differ...

While I did not find that everyone wanted to talk politics, I did find some folks who did. We had wonderful conversations, some times agreeing and some times disagreeing. I rather enjoy talking politics with new people, though I wouldn't force that topic on folks. Of course, I wouldn't force other topics on people either.

Topics of conversation with strangers from our most recent trip (at least those I can remember): rain, tornados, the war in Iraq, music in Chicago, study abroad programs, Palestine, how relationships with siblings change as we age, development, comfort food, hiking the great peaks of the world, the Sydney Olympics, junk email, John Denver. I think we need to pay more attention to how we converse rather than what we converse about.

As for the music, again it seems similar to here at home. If you really want to listen, sit up close. Otherwise you have too much "noise" from people talking between you and the musicians. If you want to talk, sit further back. It's easier to have a converstation and more respectful of the musicians.

oopsy

People debate here mmore and openly talk about any topic. Even if I disagree i will talk and debate a subject and listen to the other person to see if I lean something new. To be honest I can't be arsed talking politics in a pub. My mother is still upset from the last exection sto see how badly people she knew fell out with eachother over politics so she refused to say what her leanings were. People will not attack you but explain what you believe in if asked. Blanket statements come across as uninformed and this could set people off. I have never seen anyone here hassle someone over this and if they did they were probably young drunken louts from Temple bar. Its a touchy subject at the moment as planes to and from Iraq re-fuel in Ireland and they believe some Guantanamo flights stopped here which is against our consitution/neutral status. Too lengthy to explain. Just go with the flow

Okisteph writes: "One day we( my girlfriends and I) had gone to 3 different pubs in 4 hours and had to leave each pub because it was just getting too out of hand with the shouting over the United states politics. ..."

That's quite a 'pub crawl:' 3 Pubs in 4-hours.

From my Pub conversations, about U.S. Politics among other subjects, I have found that Irish people generally don't care for President G.W. Bush (They loved Bill Clinton, for all his faults and peccadillos, !). I just tell them the truth: I voted for John Kerry (2004) and for Al Gore (2000)

" ... If you go to Galway make sure you go to Taffy's Pub. They have great music there."

That's Taaffes, in the Pedestrian mall area

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SiobhanP writes: ".. a touchy subject at the moment as planes to and from Iraq re-fuel in Ireland and they believe some Guantanamo flights stopped here which is against our consitution/neutral status. Too lengthy to explain. Just go with the flow"

I hope the Agency running the flights from Guantanamo exercised some prudent judgment and scheduled their refueling stops for RAF Aldergrove, N.I. or RAF St. Maugens (Wales). The flights that stop at Shannon for refueling on their way to/from Ramstein AB, Germany are mostly civilian Charter airlines carrying US Military personnel & dependents. Planes would park at Gate-13 (the far end of Shannon's Gates) and no one would be allowed to deplane. Gardai used to put an 8-ft. portable chain link fence around the aircraft and stand guard there while the plane was being serviced. That was 3-years ago. Things have changed! People are now allowed to deplane and shop in the Duty Free area.

Stupid question, probably. I don't drink (can't, wish I could) but my son and husband want to visit pubs while on vacation. I'd really like to sit around with them and listen to the music and spend time there, but without drinking, would I be looked at weirdly? Maybe I should just stay at the hotel and leave the pubs to husband & son? thanks

lone,

You do not have to drink beer or liquor to enjoy a pub. Many Irish are teetotlers. Have a "mineral" (soft drink in the USA) or tea or coffee or bottled water. Try the Club lemon and orange. An Irish friend of mine loves red lemonade but I have not acquired the taste for it.

Thank you! I had been wondering about this, but hadn't seen it addressed anywhere before. This is good to know - thanks. Very helpful!

Nobody would think twice about your not drinking alcohol in a pub. Try sparkling Ballygowan (Irish spring water).

Now that I'm back from Ireland I can answer my own question about how to meet people in the Irish pubs!

At Greene's Pub in Ballyvaughan, it was so crowded it was impossible NOT to meet people. A small friendly pub with great music on Wednesday night. Loved it!

Some pubs looked intimidating when we walked in, so we just left. We tried to find pubs where we felt comfortable.

The Irish often started conversations by asking us where we were from. So we began to do the same.

Hubby got a kiss on the cheek from a Bride-to-Be who had to collect kisses from 100 men before the evening was over. That's one way to meet people!

Smile and people smile back at you. If they don't, they are extra crabby and you wouldn't want to talk to them anyway.

Pubs with great trad music often attracted music lovers, which means you can talk about music.