In Venice then Wengen - Urgent help to choose Apt + Train ticket Sold Out
 

Good day.

This is our first visit to Italy.(We are no expert nor seasoned travelers). Our latest plan is
Rome - 7days(22nd to 29th July)
Tuscany- 3 days (29th to 2nd August)
Venice - 3 days(2nd to 5th August)

I already have a running thread on the Venice
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...elp-please.cfm

However I need some urgent help on to choose an apartment
This one is cheaper
http://veniceapartments.org/rialto_1...gritti_38.html

I like this one, which is close to San Marco
http://www.trulyveniceapartments.com...ngelo-raffaele

This one looks good too
http://www.sleepinitaly.com/venice/s...0805&numPers=6

http://www.viewsonvenice.com/our_pro...a_dello_squero
.html

Residence Corte Nova
via castello 2869/a - 30122 Venezia. www.residencecortenova.com


Next Help is required on the travel -Any ideas/suggestions to get to Milan in the morning so that We could carry on to Wengen,Switzerland.

As per this web site http://www.fsitaliane.it/cms/v/index...0080a3e90aRCRD
The morning train at 5:20AM (timing is insane or is this normal in Italy) to Milan is sold out

next one is at 9:25Am through Bologna connection

Frecciargento 9415 Venezia S. Lucia09:25 Bologna Centrale 10:50
Frecciarossa 9518 Bologna Centrale 11:38 Milano Centrale 12:40

And it seems that the seats are getting over quickly. Is this my best option. Or Renting a car make any sense.

Finally, I need to buy Swiss Pass, Where do I get one, Should I break the travel from Milan at Lugano, get the Pass and take the next train?


Thanks in Advance

I don't think Trenitalia has all their summer schedule loaded yet. If you look at current schedules (they run through June 8), there are fast trains without change leaving at 5:20, 6:20, 6:50. I would keep checking over the next week and see if these trains get added for your departure date if you really want to depart so early. Trenitalia also doesn't seem to have all the trains loaded for later in the day. There should be trains that don't require connection at 8:50,9:50,10:50.

I wouldn't even bother buying a ticket for Venice to Milan until I was in Venice.

By the way, how are you getting from Rome to Tuscany and from Tuscany to Venice?

Thin

Gritti apartment - seems like a nice size, fun to look out on Grand Canal, but might be loud - are you sensitive to that?
- does it have a washer or w/d ? didn't see that in the description and that is very important for us.
- how many people are you? If you are more than 4, the one sleeping in the living room, might want their own space -
- air conditioning? (I may have just missed it)

Angelo Raffaele - will it bother you to share a washer?
- tub looks tight - will that be a problem?
- more 'generic' decor, but renovation looks nicely done
- like the location

Ponte delle Ostriche
- can't see the actual location (map?)
- like the open dining/living
- seems like a good option. (combination of the 2 above )

I didn't do real research - are there any reviews of each of the apartments online - slowtrav.com? trip advisor? How do they rate the agency vs. the specific apartment? Is there a difference with regard to payment methods (ie. credit card vs. cash)? Are they all the same with regard to agency vs. privately rented out?
(my preference is for an agency - easier to deal with if a problem than a private owner, I also prefer paying via credit card because I have that protection if there is a problem).

I also like being near San Marco - if nothing else, if you get lost, you can follow signs to there and then get "home". I also like walking down at night and seeing it lit up at night.

Kybourbon. Thanks, that is comforting.
Pepper_von_snoot, Thanks, seen your comments on the other thread.

I was really worried since the search shown very few trains and the morning one is already sold out. I would prefer a train between 7 and 9 in the morning. (Really don't want to rent a car for a day.)

Don't we need reservations in Italian Trains. And I thought, I would get great discounts for early booking too.

In general, I am bit worried on the transportation side of the plans since we have 3 kids with us and a few baggage as well.

Surfmom, Thanks so much for your effort.

No reviews on any of these apartments.

Ponte delle Ostriche
-Below is the Trip advisor, No Review but location map is there.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationR...ce_Veneto.html

Got a mail reply from Alessia Galatioto, Agent, SleepinItaly "it's absolutely central, safe and in an area full of restaurants, shops etc. It has washing machine (you can see all the facilities at the page of the apartment)."

nothing on SleepinItaly in Slowtrav.com

Surfmom, Thanks so much for your effort.

No reviews on any of these apartments.

Ponte delle Ostriche
-Below is the Trip advisor, No Review but location map is there.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/VacationR...ce_Veneto.html

Got a mail reply from Alessia Galatioto, Agent, SleepinItaly "it's absolutely central, safe and in an area full of restaurants, shops etc. It has washing machine (you can see all the facilities at the page of the apartment)."

nothing on SleepinItaly in Slowtrav.com

Finally, I need to buy Swiss Pass, Where do I get one, Should I break the travel from Milan at Lugano, get the Pass and take the next train?>

Well you can buy the exact same pass at about the same price or maybe even cheaper in the U S than in Switzerland, usually in the several years I have compared prices here and there - currently thye seem to be about the same but you would have the pass in hand and not have to get off the train to buy one but stay in any train that goes thru border - in the U S RailEurope.com is the official wholesaler with many agents working thru them such as http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html or www.ricksteves.com - I have bought various passes from Byron at Budget Europe Travel for years and he will answer any questions expertly IME - prices are universal, being set by RailEurope and the Swiss Federal Railways (RE is about 25% owned by the Swiss Federal Railways) - check on mailing fees, most agents have none - RE I think does for orders under a certain amount. You can actually have your pass activated at time of issue so you need not activate it in Europe but just start using it when the train hits Switzerland.

>>>Don't we need reservations in Italian Trains. And I thought, I would get great discounts for early booking too.<<<

All the fast train tickets come with seat reservations. Just keep checking Trenitalia every day for the next week or so (they have to have them loaded by June 9th!) and you should be able to snag some discounts (maybe as cheap as 9€).

As for getting the Swiss Pass while in transit from Milan, it might be cheaper to buy a discounted ticket from Trenitalia for either Milan/Spiez or Milan/Lucerne and not use a day off a pass. It depends on how much a pass day costs and how much the ticket from Spiez to Wengen would be (price it on sbb.ch). You can find a Smart Fare on Trenitalia for 22€ for these routes (advance purchase and can sell out). If you can get to Milan in the morning you could catch the EC train to Spiez at 11:25. If not, the next EC train to Spiez is not until 18:25). Is your travel day August 5th or 6th? Don't book this EC train until you have locked down your Venice/Milan train. Allow a little time in Milan for buying food, etc. and any train delays. Once again, keep checking Trenitalia as the 11:25 train is not showing yet on their summer schedules (you can see on Bahn.de that they have it listed so it's just that Trenitalia hasn't loaded it yet).

Train connections Venice - Wengen (about 8 hrs journey),
Venice dp 08.04, 08.50, 10.50, 14.20, 15.20, 16.20
Wengen ar 15.51, 16.51 19.21, 21.44, 22.44, 23.44

Trenitalia is for years now notoriously late loading summer schedules - same ole same ole problemo every year it seems!

All Venice - Milan trains (Frecciebianche, EC, RV, R) for the period after the June timetable change are loaded
check http://orario.trenitalia.com/ and enter any date in late June

>>>All Venice - Milan trains (Frecciebianche, EC, RV, R) for the period after the June timetable change are load<<<

I don't see any have been added since last week. The early AV trains without connections still aren't there.

If past years are any harbinger it would be highly unlikely Italian summer trains would yet be fully loaded on IME.

The apartment in Venice is confirmed,

It is Ponte delle Ostriche situated near to Campo Santa Maria del Giglio, between the St. Mark's Square and the Accademia area.

Guess, one less problem now.

Thanks

"The early AV trains without connections still aren't there."

I meant the following trains:
9702, Venezia SL dp 06.20
9704, Venezia SL dp 06.50
9708, Venezia SL dp 07.50
9710, Venezia Mestre dp 08.32
9712, Venezia SL dp 08.50
9714, Venezia SL dp 10.50
2098, Venezia SL dp 11.03
9716, Venezia Mestre dp 11.32
9718, Venezia SL dp 11.50
9722, Venezia SL dp 12.50

I don't know which other morning trains kybourbon and Palen are referring to

Neckervd, We are hoping to get one of the below ones, However on the sire for the date 5th August2013 is still not available

9704, Venezia SL dp 06.50
9708, Venezia SL dp 07.50

oops.. sorry for spelling on the above(among many other things).

Booking is available till 22nd of July 2013.

One another question, Website allows only 5 person at a time for booking. So I guess I would split it as two sets. However not sure how to book for 3 and 4 year old.

thanks

>>>I don't know which other morning trains kybourbon and Palen are referring to<<<

Most of those trains you listed are not showing for August 5. I still think it is Trenitalia just not getting everything entered as it should be. Many stations weren't autofilling when you typed the name the last few weeks. I would just keep checking every day until they appear, but it's correct they are only loaded through July 22 currently.

>>>One another question, Website allows only 5 person at a time for booking. So I guess I would split it as two sets. However not sure how to book for 3 and 4 year old.<<<

How many tickets total do you need? Technically, your 3 year old doesn't need a ticket and can travel free (under age 4 travel free), but won't have a seat if you do that. It's also probably a lot cheaper to buy super economy fares than the family fare which is a discount off regular base price. Be sure to notify your credit card company that you are making an Italian online purchase and give them time to flag your account so they don't block the purchase.

>>> How many tickets total do you need? Technically, your 3 year old doesn't need a ticket and can travel free (under age 4 travel free<<<

We would need 7 in total - 3 aged 30+, 1 aged 60+ and 3 Kids aged 3,4, & 9.

Many thanks for the tip on credit card. sure will do.

>>> How many tickets total do you need? Technically, your 3 year old doesn't need a ticket and can travel free (under age 4 travel free<<<>

but keep in mind what kywhiskey says - kids under 4 travel free as long as they do not occupy a seat - now if there were empty seats they probably could but they will have no reserved seat unless you buy them a child's ticket like those for 4 years old and over.

It was something to do in the booking , if you select child then I am forced to choose the age which is between 6 and 11. Not 100% sure if it was a family discount option.

I guess I have to get Tickets fro all since all of them would require seats.

>>>I guess I have to get Tickets fro all since all of them would require seats<<<

Yes. Even if you see 9€ tickets for the fast train, sometimes only one or two are still left at that price. If you are buying multiple tickets, it will adjust the price up to the next available discount (19€). It will probably be cheaper than buying the family discount if super economy or economy are available. If super is sold out for 2nd class, you will sometimes notice it's still available in 1st class which is often the same price as the economy rate for 2nd class.

It's annoying that Trenitalia doesn't let you purchase anymore than 5 tickets at once. After you buy your first group of tickets select seat nearby on the 2nd set so hopefully you will be close together. You might want to split them 3 and 4 in the purchase process to make sure there are adults with kids just in case you can't get seats close.

ttt

Swiss Pass Offer -http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html
Options for Second Class
Travelers: 4 Adults
Swiss Pass
Validity: 8 Days
Class of Service: Second Class
Saver pass - price reflects 15% savings
Free Swiss Family Card

About $368 per adult= 1472USD for 2nd class and another 1000USD for First Class.

Is this the right pass

Is Second class is good enough. I reckon if required we could upgrade our self on the trains itself?

FYI, while trying to purchase the pass from budgeteuropetravel.com it redirects to http://www.raileurope.com for payment. I guess this is normal procedure.

vjose - I have bought passes from Byron at budget europe for years - if you want to talk to him or others there and place an order in person you can do it - but if you click on the link buy railpass or whatever it routes you to RailEurope as do many sites like ricksteves.com. I like talking to someone in person and if you do just call IME. I always pay with a c c over the phone though they are a RailEurope agent - ultimately RE is the wholesaler for all Swiss Pass I believe as it is part owned by the Swiss Federal Railways - prices are always the same no matter where you buy, I believe.

and yes an 8-consecutive-day pass could be the best if you are traveling nearly every day - even from a base but if not then look at a 3-day Swiss Flexipass (Saver = two or more names on one pass - one person can use it alone if they want - both people do not have to be present.

To anyone going by train to Wengen or Lauterbrunnen or Murren or Gimmelwald or Grindelwald I always advise to be sure you are on the right half of the train when boarding the train in Interlaken-Ost as this train splits half-way to either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen and every time I've ridden these trains there are several flummoxed folk told by the conductor they were in the wrong car and thus headed to the wrong vally - and since these trains can be full if you have to scramble for a seat at the part where the train breaks (Zweilutshchen sp?) you may or may not find an empty seat but have to stand the rest of the way. In Interlaken-ost look at the outside of each train car and see the plaque that tells exactly where that train car is headed!

On trenitalia.com,Booking is available only till 28th of July 2013.(Venice to Milan)


PalenQ, your advise on train splits at Interlaken-ost is most helpful. Sure not want to head to a wrong valley after a long journey.

About $368 per adult= 1472USD for 2nd class and another 1000USD for First Class.>

many folks find 2nd class perfectly fine in Switzerland but if you find 2nd class chock full for some reason you can go sit in first class, which will always IME have lots of empty seats, and then pay the conductor the difference between the first and second class fares - so-called upgrade.

I've always had a first-class pass because I always want to be able to hop from side to side of the train car and just want to be able to have lots of empty seats and because I travel on trains extensively all around the country - so many times near cities like Zurich the trains act like commuter trains and can be SRO in 2nd class - but the average traveler just takes trains to the Alpine resorts and gets the benefit of a pass from 50% off gondolas, etc that are regardless of class.

PalenQ, thanks, noted the difference on 1st class vs 2nd class

We are planning for 8 days in Switzerland and will be flying out through Zurich.

Already confirmed Wengen and booked hotel for 3 days on breakfast+ dinner basis(http://www.facebook.com/Hotel.Baeren)

I am yet to finalise on other places for the remaining 5 days. Any suggestions on places and accommodations would be great.

And of course any help on daily plans/sight seeing/train trips/hiking/eating outs etc. would be highly appreciated.

I am yet to finalise on other places for the remaining 5 days. Any suggestions on places and accommodations would be great.>

Oh let's say you take the Golden Pass scenic train from Interlaken to say Montreux, on the shores of lovely Lake Geneva (a k a Lac Leman) over which hovers the visage of Europe's highest peak - Mt Blanc.

Many folks fall in love with Vevey and Montreux - two neighboring smallish cities smack on the lake and both exuding old-world romance and a French look and feel.

Take lake boats on the lake to ssy Evian-les-Bain in France - a spiffy thermal spa resort (Swiss Passes cover the boat in full even though it goes into France) - take a day trip perhapos on the Chocolate Train (or just on regular trains) to say Gruyeres - one of Europe's finest walled cities and where you can also visit a cheese-making factory - and go onto Brocc to visit th4e Nestle Chocolate Factory.

Lots of things to do in Lake Geneva area for say 3 days

Then you may want to go back towards Zurich to Lucerne and base there for the final few days - Lucerne is only a short train ride from Zurich Airport and is IMO one of the cutest cities in Europe with one of the nicest settings, on the north end of a fjord-like Lake Lucerne.

well for starters some ideas...

Now Venice - Milan trains till 3rd August 2013 is loaded.

I am not able to see the timings for Milan-SPIEZ any more. Any ideas.

Thanks

Ok. I can see it now . Milan-SPIEZ is loaded for my date(5th August 2013). Ticket price is 62EUR per person on 2nd class.

So I think only standard rates are available now.

If I choose the Offer as "GA Switzerland" then the price drops it to 17EUR. However it is asking for a Swiss Pass number for all including child.

GA card is not same as Swiss pass. Below is from TA

"we figured out and booked the ticket from Milan to Domodossola from Trenitalia website . From there on the swiss pass is valid"

In that case is it ok to take the tickets from Milan to Domodossola from Trenitalia website which is on discount 9EUR.

How do we reserve the seat from Domodossola to SPIEZ.

Is your actual destination Spiez? You would need to book Milan/Spiez on Trenitalia, not sbb.ch. It's hard to advise without knowing your actual destination. Are you buying a pass in advance and need to activate it on this leg?

GA card is a pass for Swiss residents.

Kybourbon, My Actual destination is Wengen.

I am planning to buy swiss pass(8 days) in advance.I will buy point to point(Lucerne - Zurich)tickets for the last day(13 th August).

Yes, I am using Trenitalia for booking Milan to Spiez.

How do we reserve the seat from Domodossola to SPIEZ.>

After Domodossola you do not need seat reservations for the Swiss portion so if you buy a ticket from Milan to Brig you could then use the Swiss Pass and have no seat reservation requirements within Switzerland (according to www.ban.de - German railways site which indicates trains after Brig do not require seat reservations even though on the Italian section they do.

Is it Milan to Domodossola Or Brig. How do we confirm.

If it is the former then the ticket price is only 9EUR.

Chanced upon this link

http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/...Questions.html

"When booking an international rail ticket to Switzerland you will be entitled to free travel once you cross the Swiss border – if already in possession of a valid Swiss Pass. On purchasing your international rail ticket, please specify therefore that you are in possession of a "GA" General Travelcard (the Swiss Pass equivalent for residents of Switzerland). This means you will be required to pay only for the part of your journey outside Switzerland – and can then travel on your Swiss Pass from the Swiss border to your holiday destination."

So "GA" is the way to go. Confused indeed.