I Want My Students to Love Paris!
 

I have taken several European trips with students at my university, and for some strange reason, most seem not to enjoy Paris. We have done walking tours, shopping expeditions, the boat ride on the Seine, the Eiffel Tower, etc., yet most still say they enjoyed the other European cities, but not Paris.

It bothers me that I am unable to communicate my love for this city to them. They insist they want to do the standard tourist stuff, but I am beginning to think perhaps that is part of the problem. So, I would like to plan the perfect day in Paris for 19-22 year olds. Any ideas?

Take them to the Catacombs and the Sewers

I would start by finding out what it is they preferred in the other European cities.

I think they would like wandering around the Marais and then going into the Lea Halles mall where all the local teenagers are. They could see a movie there as well.

I, too, have taken herded students of that age in Europe and experienced this attitude: they don't "get" Paris. I can recall visiting myself at a callow 21 and not being very taken with the charms...returned at 41 andwas blown away and remain "bouliverse" as the French would say...maybe it is an age thing?

So I'll amplify my answer. We took our teenage daughters (a bit younger than your students, but sophisticated for their age and experienced travelers) to London and Paris in April of last year. The bulk of our time (5 days) was spent in Paris. Once home, they said they much preferred London. I asked why, and here's what they answered: London was green and full of flowers (they were comparing London's lovely parks to the Tuileries and Champ de Mars); they loved the British accents and humor, but found Parisiens abrupt; although both have studied French no one in Paris had the patience to let them use it; they felt intimidated by the French "rules" (say "Bonjour, Madame" when you enter a shop, don't touch things in the shops, etc.); they much preferred the food in London (we go to Wagamamma for Asian food and Masala Zone for South Asian); they thought London was cleaner, and were put off by seeing drunks and street people in Paris; they preferred London black cabs (and the cabbies) to the French taxis and drivers.

They did, however, love Versailles; that was the highlight of the whole trip.

On the other hand, our sons, who are older, both visited Paris in their college days, and both love the city. They went on their own---could that be the difference?

Perhaps the answer is to contact a group of similar age Parisian students who are studying English and put the 2 groups together. Could language be the simple answer? And btw, maybe doing the typical tourist things is what they think they're supposed to say? Is this trip part of any grade? Do they need to impress you?

A lot has to do with who you go with, and where you stay, dining experiences, and attitude and how well prepared they are for the experience.

If you are staying in dorms or hostels with your students, they are not going to be as enamoured with it as my daughter was when we took her to stay in a cute little French hotel near Rue Cler. Her friend just wanted to shop and when we went to the Louvre, she stared at the walls while my daughter fell in love with the art. But then we had taken her to museums and looked at art books before we went.

The friend wanted to eat hamburgers and wasn't adventureous whereas my daughter loved cassoulet and trying new foods.

Some months later, the friend told my daughter what an experience it had been and she wished she had paid more attention. Part of the problem was that she was a teenager.

When we lived in Japan (Dad was in the AF), many of my friends hated Japan and couldn't wait to go back to the states and never left the base. I, on the other hand, had a great experience because my parents were open minded, took us to experience Japanese culture - made Japanese friends, stayed in Japanese hotels, and ate Japanese food.

Perhaps you need to prepare them more by learning about Paris before you leave.

I can't imagine being in Paris for the first time as a college student and not loving it. I first went there at 19 and adored it - but perhaps part of it was that I was in love with being in love (was traveling with my boyfriend).

Naturally we had planned the trip ouselves. Perhaps your group needs to do some of that. And can't see how the language can be a problem - I was operating on only 2 years of French - and did fine - and I can't imagine fewer French people speak English since then.

Perhaps part of the problem is that these are not city kids - which I was - and they expect everyone to be friendly and helpful to them - instead of pre-occupied with their own business.

Also - if they don;t like the food perhaps some info up front on what to expect - and order will be helpful - although every cafe can do steak frites - or chicken and the same - with a nice half bottle of wine.

Also - do you have any free nights - certainly they should enjoy clubbing there as much as in London - and hanging out at Les Halles should help them find the places the college students are going.

I went to Paris twice, at age 21 and 22 (I'm 28 now). I hated Paris because:

- the streets were dirty
- there were street pickpocketers on the metro (more in Paris than other cities I've been in)
- the people working in department stores seemed rude and didn't want to help me
- people stared at me in restaurants (I'm thinking it's because I'm Asian and they know I'm not European)
- I didn't know any French
- there was too much to see in too little time

And yes, I too, liked Versailles a lot more than Paris.

But that doesn't mean I don't like France. I just haven't had any good experiences travelling in Paris.

I also went to Nice and I LOVED it there!

I also think that the reason some students don't like Paris is because it's too "touristy." Also, it may be because the students grew up in big cities and they're already used to the "urban bright-lights big-city see everything and do it all overkill"...

whereas smaller European towns, or cities with a unique flavor (Arles known for van Gough, or Aix known for Cezanne), or Versailles, attract many students because it's very distinctly different from American cities.

I hate to say it, but what would make them love Paris is the companionship of a 19-22 year old of the opposite sex! Paris is about the BEST place to be in love.

Hmmm. What an interesting dilemma.

I might try an itinerary that includes Montmartre and St. Denis, and the Rodin museum instead of the Louvre. For both places, I would familiarize them with the lives and works of artists who lived there (Van Gogh, Picasso, Rodin).

I would do a late night dinner at Le Dome or La Coupole, maybe going to yet another late night place for dessert. I would definitely hang out around the Sorbonne a bit, although I'm not sure I'd deliberately hook them up with French students.

The cemetary in Montparnasse? A day trip to Versailles sounds good. A picnic on the banks of the Seine made with foods purchased at epiceries and patisseries, along with some wines?

Whether they like it or not, I have to say I don't think they should leave Paris without seeing Ste Chappelle!

Thanks for all of your insight. I have asked them what is "wrong" with Paris, and the replies are usually something like, "It's intimidating," "It's too dirty," and "It's overwhelming--just over the top." For this trip I thought I might arrange an afternoon that might show a more charming, more intimate side of the city. Your suggestions are welcome.

By the way, as for the advantages of seeing the city on their own, I take the approach that they are all adults and that they may spend their time in whatever manner they choose. They are not required to stay with me at all. Oddly, most stay close--even when I would prefer some alone time!

OK, maybe I am getting too far afield with this, but I'll offer it anyway. Is there a chance that these kids are demonstrating what has become all too typical - what I call the "USA Today mentality"? By that I mean everything needs to be boiled down to a sound bite for immediate absorption with minimal processing. Perhaps appreciating much of what Paris has to offer requires a degree of insight and knowledge that would come from (gasp) a bit of prior research, and that's just not part of their folio. Please note that I am not bashing youngsters, they are not the only ones who fall into this category. If this is part of the issue, perhaps you could offer a "prep pack", someting like the DK Eyewitness Guides (sorry Fodors!) that outlines highlights of a place's history over time, with a little more detail for some notable things. Even better, assign specific topics to small groups and have them assemble and exchange with each other their own "background briefing" materials. Yeah, it sounds corny and a lot like school work (which we know is increasingly out of fashion - let me just go online and google the answers or buy a term paper) but it's a thought.

Do a couple of my revised walks.

Sad to say, but I have an 18 year old and he's been to Europe, and although he enjoyed the sightseeing, what he wanted to do was go to bars at night since he can get in at 18 and meet girls. He's interested in the nightlife, not the cathedrals etc. Hopefully, someday he'll appreciate it more. He had a good time but would have enjoyed it more if he had friends his own age with him. I think it's the age.

Maybe you should let it go. You've shared your love of the city, but if some don't feel the same way, that's entirely valid. If some of those people eventually change their minds about Paris or some aspect of it, well that's their own development.

You can't make other people share your point of view. You planted the seed, which is enough.

Paris is a large city, and dirty in parts, so it might be interesting as to what other cities they do like in Europe (of that size) and not Paris. Maybe they just don't like large cities that much, that can be too much for kids who aren't used to traveling and want something comfortable and easy.

But, really, why do you have to insist they love something just because you do? They are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are. There are several major cities in Europe which I have not loved, but others certainly do (like Vienna and Amsterdam) and like religion, I don't think anyone has the right to insist someone else feel the same way they do about something. If this isn't a French class in particular, and they have no knowledge of French, it doesn't surprise me that they might prefer cities that are easier for them, or what kids perceive as more "fun". I don't love London, either, although I enjoy it for a bit and like the theater, but it is also a very large city that is just like another big city to me, to some extent.

I think you should analyze what they like about other cities, which Paris doesn't have or they didn't experience, and that might be helpful.

Hi UNC,

Maybe it's you? :) :)

Am I correct the students are at UNC?

If this is their first visit to Europe, they might just not be prepared for a large, very different city.

>..an afternoon that might show a more charming, more intimate side of the city.<

The Jardin des Plantes and the Arnes de Lutece(1st C Roman ampitheater).
A walk along the St. Martin Canal.
The Place des Vosges.
The Ile St. Louis (Gelato at Amorino)
The Pont des Arts and a walk along the Seine at night.
The Rodin Museum
The Marmottan Museum
Brunch at the Musee Jacquemart-Andre
The Parc Monceau
A tour of Montmartre on the Montmartrobus from Place Pigalle.

See Ira's Mother's Trip to Paris
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34497442

A week without a single museum.

See Paris Superthread
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34519236

100 Great Things to Do in Paris
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...mp;tid=1277898

Degas’s Paris Walks
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34712768

Jacquemart-Andre’ Museum http://tinyurl.com/p9pol

Hope this helps.

((I))

Are we to assume they have only 1 day in Paris? If so, I'd probably suggest skipping it altogether. It's not enough time to absorb the "ambience ".

If more than one day, I refer back to someone's post above:

<i>Naturally we had planned the trip ouselves. Perhaps your group needs to do some of that.</i>

Pre-trip research could get them more interested.

IMO Nessundorma's answer is right on the money.

I think before the trip, learning about some of the artists' lives, and then touring Montmartre,perhaps noting where some lived, followed by a visit to Orsay museum would be a good idea. Maybe most like Versailles, because before a visit most people learn some of the history, so that makes the actual place more interesting.

Perhaps a visit to Pere Lachaise, with a little backround beforehand?

Grab a snack and sit at the tables at Jardin Luxembourg followed by a stroll-through.

World War 2 Museum.

Attend a concert at St.Chappelle, instead of just going to walk
through.

Visit the Louvre, but talk about the history of the actual buildings beforehand. Maybe pick several paintings, look at prints of them before the trip, and talk about the story behind them. Show them the difference between looking at the print, and the nuances of the actual painting.

I agree with the picnic idea.

Hope you get a lot of good ideas, and this trip is better!

As a soon to be 45 year old woman I had to reply to your post. My first vist to Paris was when I was 18 years old. I was lucky enough to travel to France with my high school French teacher and 18 other young women. We split our time between Paris and Nice so we had the chance to experience it all. In 1979 I came away swearing that I would never return to Paris reasons that I have since forgotten. Years late in 1995 I had the pleasure of returning for a medical conference and have returned almost once a year ever since. I believe that it was just a maturity thing. I stay in Saint Germain and usually only spend 4 days but oh what a 4 days. I agree that perhaps you should reconsider and do less standard tourist stuff. I always get a kick out of the flea markets.
I understand you wanting to communicate your love for this city. I will usually bring someone different each trip and am always so excited for them and hope that they see what I see. I have never been disappointed:)

I went to Paris when I was 20 on my own. I loved it.

I did not find it at all dirty. The French weren't really friendly in Paris, but when I offered to speak Spanish, someone would try to help. I had been to big cities elsewhere though.

Get the books that teen travelers use and see what they say -- Let's Go: France (by Harvard students)or Lonely Planet's guide.

I would second the ideas for the Catacombs, the flea markets and Montmartre. Some might enjoy climbing to the top of Sacre Couer for the view, and it's kind of strenuous.

I saw on Rick Steves that the French periodically close off some of their streets for roller skaters -- it looked fun.

The Sorbonne cafeterias were open to the public; they aren't great food but I met some other students there. The Let's Go Guide had the information on that.

Do you think that you have over communicated your love of the city? Sometimes when destinations have been so built up and glorified, they fail to meet expectations.

I visited Madrid when I was 18 as part of a school group. I can't say I was overly impressed with the tour or city. So much of the trip was concentrated on the history and architecture of Spain - things I could care less about at that age. What I enjoyed most was wandering around the city with my friends at our own leisure rather than the rushed pace of a tour.

Now that I'm older my interests are different and I look forward to returning to Madrid with a new attitude. My advice is to relax and let your students experience Paris at their pace rather than trying to cram it down their throats.

Teenagers? Besides the obvious basic tourist sights, I think they would be most interested in shopping around Les Halles and also the Clignancourt flea market. They also like to congregate on the steps of Sacr&eacute; Coeur. The catacombs and the sewers are a good idea if they want &quot;quirky&quot; -- and they also might like going to P&egrave;re Lachaise or Montparnasse cemeteries, searching out some of the famous graves.
Most important -- do not herd them all the time and give them a chance to get lost on their own (after verifying that they can figure out how to use the metro to return to the accommodation point).

These students you take to Paris, have they learned French or done some studies on France before?

If you do these studies. you will recognize, that there are some amazing French opinions: France still is La Grande Nation, Paris still is the capital of all capitals. To speak French gives you the possibility to enter this world (so the official French Course for foreigners is called Course de Civilisation Francaise, as you are taught not only some language skills).

Or: It is all in your (or your student´s) head. If they haven´t been taught, that a lot of things we konow, we do, we consider to be basic for our society, have been invented and done first in this town, they will just see a rubble of stone what for others is a temple.

Practical hint: Introductionary studies for those who want to go: Paris in literature. (You can do the same with London, as, remember, it is all in your head).

&quot;The perfect day&quot; fopr them will BE &quot;the standard tourist stuff&quot;..allow them to enjoy/not enjoy Paris on their own (under your supervision, of course).

Part of the &quot;intimidation&quot; may be coming from you in your desire to help them enjoy the city.

'Ya know, it's also occured to me that every time I've wanted someone to <i><font color="red">really</font></i> love some place I do, my plans often backfire---maybe b/c I try too hard?

Before we were married, I took my husband to Paris where he'd never been. If I listed all the things that &quot;<font color="purple">went wrong</font>&quot; from arriving to find the city <b>completely shuttered</b> for a holiday I knew nothing about, to my favorite first night restaurant that had changed from <font color=blue>French</font> to <font color="orange">Lebanese</font> to the Eiffel Tower lights that went out just as we'd arrived at the &quot;perfect&quot; spot from which to gaze..... RELAX. They'll either love it or they won't.

Hi Mc,

You didn't write a book about it? :)

((I))

UNCalum, you have made my day. I came on the board to take a break from a paper I have to write, and lo and behold, I find a thread that fits right into it. Thank you.

I hope some of these suggestions/comments might be helpful -- and I'll pose a few questions that might make it easier for me to know what you are seeking.

First of all, consider what you love about Paris that you would like to communicate to your students. I think one of the things you have to convey is that, beyond a tourist destination, this is a place where people live, with the same concerns as anywhere else. It's just more interesting and beautiful.

I cam here seven years ago with no expectations. I had been here before, as a child, and would have preferred to go somewhere I hadn't been. However, my daughter suggested we come here for New Year's Eve, and I agreed. On my second day here, I realized that this was where I wanted to be. I spent several years arranging, and now I am living here.

I won't waste everyone's time with an elogy to Paris. I believe there is something here for everyone. Everyone has his own personal Paris, and it's just a matter of finding it.

I am in a programme here, part of which includes studying art in its historic context, so I've had the opportunity to visit a lot of places that are off the tourist-beaten track.

You mention that the kids find Paris &quot;intimidating.&quot; Paris is a city of villages. They might enjoy Montmartre (a little touristy since Am&eacute;lie, but still charming), le Marais (fun, lively, diverse, lots to do -- for everyone), rue Mouffetard in the Latin Quarter.

I'm not so sure that Saint-Denis would thrill them, unless they are really into French history and funerary sculpture (and I'm an art historian). I wouldn't recommend Les Halles; it's a little seedy, and they can see a Mall back in the States. However, rue Montorgueuil, just next to it is adorable.

I also wouldn't recommend Le Dome unless they want to watch their fellow Americans overpaying for mediocre food. Nor would I recommend the concert at Sainte-Chapelle. I enjoyed it immensely, and the musicians were wonderful, but Euro 38 is a bit steep for an hour of music for 20-year-olds.

I know I don't have to convince you, as you clearly love the city, but I have to respond to a couple of things. The French are not &quot;friendly&quot; in the Amperican sense. (You aren't going to hear, &quot;Hello, I'm Jean-Luc, your waiter.&quot;) However, they are almost always polite, and, after the first meeting, extremely kind.

What I would recommend: The Op&eacute;ra Garnier, especially the Chagalle ceiling in the auditorium: the Mus&eacute;e Nissim de Camondo, one of the most charming museums in Paris, where one can see exceptional 18th Century art and furniture in a home that remains as it was when the family lived there; the Mus&eacute;e Gustave Moreau (they will like the Symbolism). The Conciergerie is amazing. Ditto the Mus&eacute;e Rodin.

Then, culture aside (but still art de vivre), a picnic -- but let them plan the menu and do the shopping. Jardin des Plantes (thank you, Ira) is a wonderful Sunday afternoon, especially in the spring. Lastly (and I've never been there), ask them if they would like to go to EuroDisney. It's only about 1/2 hour from Paris on the train.

These are just general suggestions. You don't mention what you teach. I'm assuming either history or French. Clearly, these students have some interest, or they wouldn't have chosen to come.

I hope this helps a bit. You don't mention when the trip will take place, but I think it can be wonderful.

I'm really glad Toupary responded but I do want to respond to some of what she said:

The suggestion for Le Dome can be substituted for any of the &quot;fishbowl&quot; cafes of Montparnasse late at night. The suggestion was made not for the food (although if you know how to order there, you can do just fine) but for the fun of them. I doubt they will care or particularly notice who their fellow customers are. The point of the windows is watching people on the street.

I believe the crypts of St Denis may very well capture the interest of teenagers and that the weird funerary sculpture -- people in bed, toes up, with their bare feet on view, and the tiny Clovis, as well as poor Marie Antoinette -- is memorable. Also, young people being introduced to art are often more taken with sculpture of the human figure as a link to times past than they are just about any other form.

I'd be careful with the Jardin des Plantes because while I quite enjoy it, a teenager might feel he/she is being condescended to since so many of the exhibits are plainly oriented to younger children.

Finally, I have no objection to gearing a tour to the age of the audience, and not trying to impose art on those uninterested, but to feed American kids yet more Disneyland when they are in Europe seems to me to be a step in very much the wrong direction.

so, what cities do they like and why? this is key information.

The Bois de Bologne has so much to offer, restaurants, a zoo, flower gardens, a steepchase track, ,Longchamp race track, Jardin d'Acclimation which is at once amusement park with a traditional marionette theater.

The Jardin d'Acclimation is for young children, teens would be horrified if you took them there.

I think young adults probably have fun just walking around the Latin Qtr, Champs-Elysees, etc., where a lot of other tourists are. Maybe they do like shopping (at least the females), but I'm not sure that is exactly exposing them to French culture or history. I think La Defense might actually be enjoyable as you have the arch you can go up, and they have a good shopping center there.

I don't think Le Dome is a good place for young adults that age, it is too sophisticated and quiet (and expensive). That's one reason I like it, but I don't think crowds of teens would fit in or that they would enjoy it so much. There is a cafe about across the street and to the west a little that is frequented by kids that age and it would be much more appropriate. You can tell just by looking at it (it is in-between the Select and Rotonde). I also think they could enjoy going to place Contrescarpe in the 5th (could roam rue Mouffetard or take in a typical French market on the days it is at Monge) as that has a lot of young people around, also.

My niece who visited Paris about that age didn't like it, either. She was with her English boyfriend and neither of them liked it that much, but that's because they didn't plan anything or know what they were doing (didn't even have a hotel reservation, so went to the tourist office and got put in a modern highrise on the peripherique). Given how much people on here talk about Europeans traveling so much from a young age, I was surprised when she said her boyfriend had never been there before so he didn't know much either (he lived in a London suburb at the time and was in his late 20s).

I think a lot of the students' problem noted was that they don't speak French and it's just easier in an English-speaking country and one whose history they could probably relate to more. It is more accessible for a lot of reasons, and I can understand the feelings about the general tenor of the people they may come in contact with and the humour/rules thing. I think Paris can appeal to lots of people at that age, but not everyone and in a large general student group of that age who are not that mature yet, I can see it.

I sort of think a lot of these ideas to try to make them like Paris don't really fulfill the point of a trip to Europe since they could just do them at home (amusement parks, shopping, movies, etc.).

Sorry, Lady, I loved it as a teen but I still ride Merry-go-rounds and watch the puppet shows :) One is never to old to enjoy fun things in life.

You might ask the students to list -- anonymously -- on a piece of paper, the three things that most interest them in a city like Paris (tourist sites or activities) and the three things they claim to have absolutely no interest in (probably out of ignorance, but perhaps also experience). I'm sure that the answers would contain a few surprises that none of us have thought of.

Thanks to all for some thoughtful and inspiring answers. You have made some wonderful suggestions, and I will use them to make this trip the best yet.

To the poster who questioned why I &quot;insist&quot; that the students enjoy Paris as I do, I will reply that I insist on nothing. Obviously tastes vary; however, when too many have feelings that seem negative, I question whether I have done a proper job of introducing the city to them. It was in this spirit that I asked for some good ideas, and you have indeed provided many.

In response to another, we do have more than one day in Paris, but there are some obligatory events needed to satisfy the credit requirements. The students have free time here and there, but one glorius, unplanned day. We will also visit London and Rome.

Also, I agree that the nightlife will be the highlight for them. At their ages, it should be.

For Ira: No, these students are not from UNC. If they were, I would still be living in beautiful Chapel Hill!

Oh, and for the record, I teach literature. Thanks again.

Tonight I finished readin &quot;We'll always have Paris=American tourists in France since 1930.&quot; There are mentions of the reactions of students, good and bad.

Individual opinions of Paris vary enormously with the personality of the person holding the opinion.

The only age-related factor I can think of is that people tend to be obsessed with the opposite sex and socializing once they reach puberty, and they remain that way for years, with the hormones continuing to work into their early 20s in most cases, unless they find a steady partner, in which case they settle down.

Teenagers in groups tend to ignore the city and spend all their time socializing with each other or with anyone else they can find in their age group. Those from repressed societies such as the U.S. may also spend their time trying to find alcohol or even sex. Teenagers on their own with their parents are somewhat more likely to be interested in the city, unless they are pining for someone back home.

A good time for kids to visit Paris is just <i>before</i> puberty. Once puberty hits, they'll be preoccupied for years in most cases. Even college students have this problem. Eventually people settle down again, but by then a lot of time has passed.