I am baffled by people's reaction to Paris
 

There have been several postings in the last few days about Paris. No matter what the nature of the post--complimentary or not--the mere mention of "Paris" seems to provoke the most volatile of reactions. Fierce defenders, fierce detractors. Has this always been the case on this board? Or is this a fairly new phenomenon?

I am well aware of that old saw, "Parisians are rude." I've always put it into that same category as other national stereotypes that might prove true for a certain individual person on a certain day, but a generalization otherwise.

Yet in the case of Paris, there are people who are so anxious to show that it is true, every day, every time, for every person. This does not happen with other European cities. Hardly anyone posts something like "Yes! It's true! Londoners are cold fish!"

I am perplexed not by Paris but by the things people say about it.

Trolls. Most likely never been to Paris. No different than a talk show host praising Hitler to get a rise out of people.

People say the same things about New York. Seriously. So maybe we're not so far form Parisians. Let me explain.

As a New Yorker (now living in Europe), I'll tell you this:

I HATE TOURISTS.

I don't care where they are from, whether they speak English, or the policies of their nations. I want them to get out of the middle of the sidewalk craning their necks looking up at tall buildings. I want them not to stop me to ask a question when it's 9:01 and I am already late for work and it's 90 degrees and I'm in a suit and they are in shorts and T-shirts.

And that, I'm sure, is how Parisians feel. If they're "rude" it's beacsue they don't want to be bothered, because they are in a rush to get somewhere, beacuse they live in freaking Paris and could care less about your needs. I'm always surprised at how nice they are to me because I know exactly how I feel on the other end.

I think the people who find these types of people to be rude don't realize how different city people are--even in diffrent cities. When I went to New Orleans, I was shocked when a person on the street just said hello to me. Why would he do that? I thought he must be stalking me, until elderly ladies all greeted me too. I don't smile or say hello to strangers when I'm, just walking down the street--in NYC, that's just dumb. But I think a lot of Americans expect that to happen (my Mom does). It won't.

It doesn't mean they hate you, it's not they are rude, they don't care about what country you are from, they just want to get on with their life.

Take it easy allovereurope and speak for yourself. I live in Chicago and love tourists. I feel very fortunate that I live in a city that people actually want to visit. As a matter of fact, I feel it is very important to show hospitality. I like when they ask me questions and hope I can be of help. I would want them to leave our great city with a positive opinion.

Whoa.

See! This is what I mean! London, Prague, Barcelona do not attract this kind of passion.

I feel it is important to show hospitality too, and I have always tried to do so and answered questions ot the best of ability when asked. But did it try my patience? Did I come home and bitch to my SO about how I was late because a whole busload of tourists were in my way so I missed a train? Yes.

Paris gets more heavy, year-roubnd tourism than NYC, so I'm saying I can just imagine how the Parisians feel. That's why I think they're all so nice. I can't believe they don't just ignore me.

golly gee allovereurope, maybe you should move elsewhere - if you don't want to deal with tourists don't live somewhere that is heavily touristed (doh!) - maybe Rome?

"...I thought he must be stalking me..." ohh reeealllly?

thanks for the laugh....

As for the original post - yes there is fierce debate about Paris - some people here think it's better than heaven, others think it's the lowest ring in hell. While I think Paris is beautiful and has lots to offer, I find the treacle rants and raves a bit delusional.....

What provokes heated debate among people interests me. I recall that the most mail that Ann Landers ever received on a single topic during the decades she wrote her advice column was over the debate of whether the toilet paper should roll over or under on the spool. And, I've read posts here where some people get pretty steamed up over (seemingly) the most inconsequential things.

Dori, I'm with you on liking tourists in Chicago. I live downtown and am stopped at least once a day for directions, restaurant suggestions, etc. It's fun to offer ideas.

Having said that, I loved Paris and hope to visit again, but have no interest in debating with someone who doesn't care for the city. To each his/her own.

dln, does that stand for darlin?

I have to jump in here for a quick defense of NYC. Paris can take care of itself:) but for allovereurope to bring NYC into his/her stereotypical rant, I feel I must disagree.
I think the "rude,obnoxious NYer" is similar to the "rude Parisian"..Rude can be found anywhere in the World, NYC and Paris don't corner the market on this rudeness, I have seen it in small towns in the South, LA, Canada, England, wherever there are people, there will be rude people.
allovereuropes problem seems to be just plain old Crankiness!
"Don't talk to me!!"
"Don't stand there!"
" Why are you having fun in your tee shirt and I have to work?"
This has nothing to do with tourists, this has a lot to do with a cranky person shouting Bah Humbug!

New Yorkers tend to be unpleasent more often, because they live in NY.

There are some very nice things in NY, but the city needs those things just to be barely livable.

Keith

Keith, we can't start a discussion about NYC because then we'll have to hoist ourselves over to the US board. Me especially since that is my birthplace many year ago and I am very fond of it!

(Scarlett, to my darlin' husband, the "d" really is darlin'. ((L)) )

Actually, I don't live in NY anymore.

I was trying to defend Parisians, I guess you just think of me as a cranky old man now. Oh well. I'm actually a young woman. Who lives in Europe. And helps tourists every day. Gladly. Because I have the time. I didn't then.

Allovereurope, I must ask: Do you ever tour other cities? If you do, do you hate yourself or is it only OTHER tourist????

allovereurope just needs to leave for work a little earlier so giving advice to tourists doesn't make her late.

I live in Philly, and I love to see tourists and help them out. I know that their visits are good for our economy. Also, I love my city, and I want others to love it, too. Finally, I know what it's like to be a tourist and how much I appreciate it when the locals are friendly and kind.

Are you reading what I'm writing? I'm saying that when a resident, I hate other tourists who get in my way. But I know that when I am a tourist I'm bothering them the same way! Apparently I am not very good at communicating subtleties via text...I was just trying to say that putting oneself in the other perons's (Parisians) shoes is a good way to start. Just forget I said anything because it's clearly not being taken in the way that I meant it.

Please just forget I said anything. I would delete all these posts if I could.

My first trip to NYC I found the natives to be surprisingly friendly and helpful.

I have also found Londoners to be most helpful once one peirces the big-city sheild. I once had a man dressed in a fine business suit and carrying a briefcase chase me at least half a block in a terrific crowd through the Tower Hill Tube station to return a lens hood that he's seen fall from my camera.

Parisians unfortunately lived down to their reputation.

allovereurope - take a taxi

I am baffled why people can't post their opinions about a trip they took without someone jumping down their throat and calling them an "amateur".
People should be able to post the good and the BAD...that is what makes this interesting. I know seasoned travelers who dislike Paris and Parisians. I know seasoned travelers who love Paris and Parisians. It is all a matter of individual opinion.

I think the right-wingers have invaded this board now that Bush is looking more like he was bluffing. France might be justified about their views.
Don't blame the whistle-blowers.

Some of the posts I've seen about Paris and Parisians are in Seine. Eifel off my chair at some of these negative comments. De Gaulle of these people. I've seen Parisian people be good Samaritaines helping Les Invalides across the street. I Rue the day I meet some of these negative people. I say be positive Orsay nothing. I'll be on Gard when I see them, though. When I heard about people's bad feelings about Paris, my heart cinq. Let me make this perfectly Cler; I love Paris.
((H))

maitaitom..Very creative,I must say.

I think more people in the US are aware of how so many in Europe (my relatives included) have a nasty disposition for things "American" ... except they really do like Americas, and had a great time in America, and love their computers and cokes, etc. ad nausuem. Nevertheless, they'll rant and rave and blame the US for everything anyway.

We just spent a couple days at the Taste of Chicago. Someone said there would be 3 1/2 million people there this year. I think I rubbed shoulders with at least a million of them. All hot and sweaty. Some in good moods, some not. We loved every minute. It's got nothing to do with cities. It has to do with your attitude toward the human race. If people irritate you, I could recommend a couple locations in North Dakota (sorry N.D.).

No glossing over people despise the US right now. Especially the french. WE will have to work to improve things before travel gets any better or safer.

I've travelled extensively in North Dakota. It's a great place to get away from people. I learned to spell elsewhere.

WEMR.. I think Mikey was complimenting the fine people from the Black hills of the Dakotas.

Noew,Jor's remark about the right wingers invading this board,that is sooooo true and refreshing.

Allovereurope, I get what you are saying, simply that in heavily touristed areas you are more likely to find some people who are short with tourists. Of course. The same with LV in the tourist places.

Bravo, maitaitom! Way to cheer things up! I raise my glass of kir to you! =D>

dln, not only has it likely always been the case with tourists on this board, but I'd bet it's also likely been that way among all tourists who have visited Paris.

I love Paris. I think it's absolutely beautiful and fascinating city.

I don't understand why people loathe it. But, in turn, I'm sure they don't understand why I, and others, love it.

RE: CAPO

You can love Paris and think its absolutely beautiful and a fascinating city and also think a lot of rude, arrogant people live and work there. I go there with an open mind, but also not expecting a lot of smiles and superior customer service.

I have really only encountered two rude people during my Paris trips. One was a cab driver having a bad day, the other was a pickpocket.

I hope someone is collecting Tom's little ditties for a future 'itty bitty ditty' contest or something. LOL......Tom, you crack me up.

Very true, Duman, you can love Paris as a city but dislike Parisians. However, it seems to me that when people dislike Parisians, that often carries over into a dislike of the city.

Re: "I go there with an open mind, but also not expecting a lot of smiles and superior customer service."

Likewise (although I've gotten plenty of smiles, and professional -- if not fawning -- customer service.) Parisians are not Americans. Why people expect them to be is a puzzle.

Here is my opinion about a few American cities where I have lived...

San Francisco - Not very polite and too much attitude. They believe they have a divine right and everyone should think like they do.

New York - Nice if you are in the tourist sector otherwise people can be pretentious, rude, cold and snotty. New Yorkers live like Animals and think their s**t doesn't stink. New Yorkers also believe that they is nothing else outside New York that is worthy of their attention, except for Florida and the Carribean.

Los Angeles - By far the nicest and most polite people in a big city. OK.. there are all the glamour gouls but they are just plain funny. The pretentious people you hear about in LA are confined to a sector of Bev Hills and other wealth neighborhoods.

Chicago - Genuine and friendly people who can be a bit dull but always polite.

"Los Angeles - By far the nicest and most polite people in a big city. "

A tough reputation to live up to, but we Angelinos are up to the task. Thank you (polite reply) for your kind L.A. comments. I'll tell my wife not to cut anyone off on her way home.
maitai LA tom
((H))

OUCH! Richarddab strikes again:(

"Message: OUCH! Richarddab strikes again"

Scarlett, you seem so nice and polite that I will make you an honorary Los Angeles person. Please, put on your shades, though.
((H))

richardab: I was shopping in NYC and meeting a friend later at the Ocean Club. It was before my trip to France picking up a few things I couldn't find here and meeting an old acquaintance. While shopping I was caught up in the street with a rainstorm. I was wearing a shoulder bag, and as I stooped on the street to pick up my purchases which fell out of the wet deteriated bags, my shoulder bag fell off and I didnt notice. when I stopped in a nearby shop to dry off a bit, I realized my bag was not on me. I retraced my steps back to Bergdoff's which was where the rain storm started. And nothing. I explained what happened and they graciously let me phone my friend at the Ocean club. She said take a cab, I'll Pay. Two weeks later, I received a phone call From NYC police saying a man returned my handbag that had dropped against the wall. All was intact. I asked police for the New yorker's number to thank him. Later I was able to do kind. A tourist here in Boston had a fit, and like me, his bag was aginst the wall. I didnot know this til later. Walking to my lunch hour hangout, I spotted the bag and it was filled with expensive camera equipment and airline tickets and travellers checks, so I turned it over to the police.

Very cool