How weird is this??
 

This morning I received my periodic e-mail from vacations-to-go cruise broker (which I recommend btw). There was a reference to some article written about a woman somewhere that drives a 6 year-old car so she can splurge on cruises. My response to this was "why is this newsworthy?" I thought everyone did this. It got me to thinking about people's values concerning travel experiences verses buying things. I guess the reason it sounds perfectly normal to me to sacrifice new cars, clothes, latest electronic stuff, etc., in favor of going somewhere is that I do it. I drive a 10 year old Altima and last summer spent over a thousand dollars on a dinner in Venice for 8. Hell the tip was $250! I have never thought about this very much. I guess the question I have is Do you guys scrimp on everyday stuff (like above) in favor of going to some incredible place for a couple of weeks - knowing that when you return all you will have is the memory of it? Or am I and that lady the only two? I'm obviously not talking about you rich dudes that do both. As you can tell - its a slow day at work!!
Shrink

We all priortize differently, so it would be difficult to bundle everyone into only 4 classes - those who scrimp on things to travel, those who scrimp on travel to buy things, those with enough money to do both, and those with not enough money to do either.

We live in a very small house (with a relatively small mortgage payment therefore) and though we bought our cars new will drive them for several years before replacing them. We love to travel both at home (US) and abroad, but would not spend that kind of money on dinner, as food in restaurants is not a high priority for us. We splurge on a few things that many might find ridiculous (season tickets to our favorite college football team, for example) and save elsewhere. Our primary money focus seems to be on saving for the future, so that we can retire earlier than average and still live a nice life once we've done it.

So, most people spend in areas that are most important to them. There are some, however, who just don't get it. They drive fancy new cars and buy fancy big houses and then complain that they can't afford to travel. It's all about picking and choosing what matters most. Most of us can't have it all. ;)

I do drive a 11-year-old car, and of course the money that otherwise would have gone to car payments (and higher insurance etc.) goes to travel instead. But I don't consider it scrimping. The car works fine, and gets me where I'm going, so from my perspective, a fancy new one could do no better. Likewise, my wardrobe is quite modest.

This sort of non-consumerism can lead neighbors to assume you're broke, and can lead headmasters of private schools to be surprised when you don't apply for financial aid. It was quite fun to see the look on his face when I told him, no I didn't need help, indeed I had paid cash for my house so if I neded funds I could get a home equity line.

we just traded in our 10 year old blazer only because it had 160 thou miles on it and the inspector said it would cost $4000 before it could pass (someone we trusted) - so we bought a new car - but I hated it. Our other car just turned 6 and I intend to keep it awhile. I also am not a shoe person like many women seem to be, don't really care about clothes other than the suits I have to wear to work, don't go out much, love garage sales and any sales in general but travels to three or four places a year at least - all people have their choices.

I have no use for jewelry, expensive clothes, fancy cars, or furniture.
Education and travel...now those two things CAN significantly improve the quality of life for myself and my family. I have no trouble spending 5 grand for everyone in the house for airfare to Europe. But there is NO WAY I'm spending that kind of money on a big screen TV and surround sound.

I have a 13 yr-old car - almost 14.

>last summer spent over a thousand dollars on a dinner in Venice for 8<

I am definitely not in that league. :)
Hope it was good.

Of course, this kind of thing get discussed on forums such as this, and there are many of us who live in small houses, don't replace furniture, drive old cars, don't wear jewelery or expensive clothes.

BUT what really surprises me is the number of people I meet when traveling who are wearing expensive jewels and clothing, have two homes, drive new cars, etc. I don't think that there are all that many of us, other than the die-hard travel lovers who haunt places like this board and who are really committed to travel, who prioritize in order to go to Europe regularly.

Just about no one I know in my day to day life drives a 13 year old car so that they can go to Europe twice a year. And just about everyone I meet while traveling is someone who doesn't live in a small house in a city neighborhood, who doesn't do this and that so that they can travel.


Am I wrong? Who do you all meet out there? I seem to meet an awful lot of rich folks on my travels to Europe.

You CAN have it all....just not all at the same time. LOL Everyone has their own values and different things are important to different people. I just find the older I get, the less clutter I want in my life and "stuff" doesn't interest me that much. Now, don't get me wrong..I LOVE to shop, but I find myself being much more discriminating in my purchases and what I buy I need or is actually useful..well, at least most of the time. There was a time in my life when I had almost 200 pair of shoes and I could find every pair instantly. I know, I can hardly believe it myself. Well, I just don't feel the need to do that anymore..now it's LESS is more. I wouldn't spend 1,000 on a dinner either but don't criticize those that do..we all deserve some pleasures that we work hard for, and each person picks what pleases them. I'd rather go to Paris then have a new car every year.

Oh yea...I'd rather go to Paris than drive a new car with or without "Huge Grant".

Well if you stay in 2 star hotels you'll meet more people who aren't rich but love to travel. I drive 10 and 14 year old cars and go to Europe twice a year. I would never buy a new car if it meant I'd have to sacrifice a trip (and it would, so when my current cars do die, they'll be replaced by slighly newer used cars). I also don't stay in luxury hotels because even though I could actually afford to do it once in a while, it would cut down on the number of trips I can take. I'd rather have more total days to travel and do it more modestly.

Everyone has their own values and priorities. But I've tried to impart my views on my own kids and for example, my daughter choose to attend the State University rather than a private college and in exchange we told her she could study abroad as much as possible. She is now planning her second study abroad experience (London, last year was Paris) and says these experiences are much more valuable than anything she thinks she could have gotten by going to a more expensive private college.

I actually think there are lots of people like us out there.

Thanx guys for your responses. Admittedly, I rarely (well actually only once) have spent 1K+ on dinner. That was a wedding dinner with quite a few extras and was at Antico Martini in Venice. My point was that I am perfectly capable of spending a lot on an experience, but like some of you above, DREAD when I have to get another car because I consider it such a waste. Ditto with latest electronics because it will be obsolete in 90 days. At least Im not alone.

My hotel costs average about $150 per night. Dinner is usually about $35 per person, lunches are closer to $15 per person or sometimes cheaper if eating a doner kebab or pizza from an outdoor market.
The ONLY time we consider using a taxi is upon arrival in a seriously jet-lagged state. Otherwise, its public transportation all the way.

I save on everything every day so I have enough money to go on vacation. This is my life, and this is my choice how to live it.

And I beat you all - my "car" expenses are $45 for a monthly fast pass, thanks to the excellent San Francisco public transportation.

And I always spend more while on vacations - restaurants, souvenirs, fancy foods and cosmetics to bring back.

As a single person, I tutored to earn extra money (being a teacher, I felt I had to supplement my income!), didn't spend wildly and kept my cars for a looong time. This allowed me to sock money away for the future and to go on one big international trip (for around 3 wks at a time) and several short domestic trips/year. Having everything I want has never been an option but I'm fine with that because I feel I appreciate all that I have.

I recently got married (and shortly thereafter pregnant) and though I don't want to cut down on my traveling, it's gonna happen for a while anyway. My husband loves to travel too but we've agreed that taking care of our family comes first--and that doesn't mean living in a house beyond our means and buying new cars every 2-3 yrs. (as he did in his single days!) It's saving for us, saving for the kid's college and all those grown up things!

Guess I'll just have to get my travel fix through all of you!!

One, I thought the same 28 years ago... Trust me, you won't stop vacationing, just hold off travels. It will be a shorter trip to a lake, to a park, then further and longer. And more suitcases. And more fun to share it all with you little "boss". You will be surprised how early they start to understand where they want to go.

Faina, your transportation cost in SF makes me envious because here in Vacaville a car is a must.
But guess I need to remember housing cost here are so much lower.
There is no winning is there.
I buy a new car when I need one however I keep each car for ages. Replaced the 1989 Jeep for a Toyota Rav in 2001 and will drive it until it is no longer driveable.
When one is older one generally has the "stuff" one wants (furniture, clothes, jewelery, electronics, kitchen items etc." so it is a lot easier to not spend a lot every month compared to the young family starting out.
Having said that however I still get comments from friends who live alone or with just their spouse in 3000 Sq ft. plus houses, drive cars replaced every two years, dine out about 4 to 5 times a week that "I don't know how you do it, traveleing cost so much money!".
Oh sigh.
Each one of us decides where we want to spend our money. Than when we make that decision don't whine because someone else loves to travel, right??

I'm a "voluntary simplicity" gal myself. I have an apartment, a car, a computer :), and I can travel to England when I really want to. But there's one aspect to this conversation that has only been touched on, ie, "living beyond your means." There are an awful lot of people living in large homes, driving expensive cars, and spending lots of money on luxuries. And how do they do it? *Credit cards*! Unless you have access to their bank accounts, you can't really tell what they can afford and what they can't. A lot of people have nice things because they are willing to carry a lot of debt. And some people carry some debt because there's no other choice. Unless you can take a peek into someone's checkbook ledger, you can't tell which category they fall into.

One Wandering Jew,

Some advice from a mommy of two little ones--you can take it or leave it. :) Make sure that you get quality time with your husband AWAY from the kids, even if you don't travel far. It's so easy to disconnect from your spouse when all of your emotional and physical energy is going to the kids. Hopefully you have family or generous friends who would be willing to babysit for a few days so the two of you can have some romantic time together. Yes, it's hard for us to leave the kids when we do this, but we always come back from our trips with a renewed relationship and new appreciation for the whole family.

Along another vein, I have a blast daydreaming with my four year old about where all we can go together someday. If she learns about geyers in a book or on TV, I'll tell her all about Yellowstone and tell her that maybe "someday" we can all go there as a family. She saw a picture of a Venetian gondola and is so intrigued by this place where the cars are boats! It's fun and educational to talk about these destinations with the little ones. By discussing it, you get a good idea of where their interest lie and what kinds of trips will be fun for them in the future.

Merseyheart. Ain't that the truth?
:@).
The people that I know that cannot affored a vacation (to quote them) are paying a fortune in mortgage payments, property taxes, homeowners insurance, heating bills etc., plus the gasoline bills for their huge SUV's and often eat most breakfasts out "because they are so stressed they can't cook (like an egg, or a bowl of cereal?)".

Part of the family is like me, pay off the credit cards in full every month, keep cars a long time, live in what they can afford to live in etc. The other half calls us cheapskates.

Guess which half of the family takes wonderful trips as the other half whines and complains that they "cannot afford to". Too funny!

Sometimes I am in awe of how much I can relate to people on this board. Outside of Fodorland, most of my friends and family do not understand the need to travel. And for me that is a NEED to travel, not just a "want" to travel.

I drive a 10-year-old car and go to Europe twice a year. So many of you have echoed my sentiments, like when Isabel said at 2* hotels you don't meet rich people, just people who love to travel. I couldn't have said it better myself.

If I were to give up travel, I could get a brand new car and a bigger house. But the new car would get old and the bigger house would be more space than I need. And worst of all, I would miss out on the learning and the experience of seeing the world. This might be worth it for some people, and that's OK for them. It's not for me.

To OneWanderingJew--congrats on your marriage and baby!! I can understand your putting travel on the back burner for now, as you obviously have more important things to do. But as your child gets older, I bet he/she will learn to love travel as much as you do. My late grandmother taught me the love of travel, and that was the greatest gift she ever gave me. Good luck to you and your new family.

It wasn't Shrink's US$1000 dinner (as toe-curling as that number is) that surprised me so much, it was the $250 tip. I had the impression that although 15%+ tips are unavoidable in the US due to the wage structure in the hospitality industry, 10% was more the mark in Europe, not 25%. Am I wrong on this, or were there special circumstances?

Maybe this grabbed my attention because I've just got back from China, where (as in my own country) tipping isn't expected.

My 10 year car has almost 64,000 miles on it so I expect it will last awhile. I'm getting ready for my 4th trip to Europe in 12 months. Not rich, just don't spend a lot of money while traveling. Food costs -$10-$15 a day. I only buy 1 meal a day. Public transportation is fine with me.

On another thread I surmised that members of this board have decreed that smoking is intolerable, you shouldn't be fat or take anything larger than a 22 in rolly bag for a vacation, despite its length. Tennies are bad form too. Now, I see it is not cool to have enough money to both travel & live well.

Thanks, LoveItaly. I do have a good example. I know several music fans who want to spend their money collecting stuff, instead of doing things. One of them tells me she can't afford to go to England, but she does own 200 (!) Barbie dolls. If that's her choice, fine. But I don't think she's aware that she made a choice. I do get weary watching people complain about being broke, and still spend money on things they don't need. (I have the same problem with food, but I know that my extra weight comes from those hamburgers, pizzas, and candy bars. I'm just arguing for self-awareness here.) And JaneG, living well and living expensively are not necessarily the same thing. A lot of people on this board are saying that living a modest lifestyle, and putting their spending priorities on travel, is their choice. As I said, I'm just arguing for self-awareness herel.

I say to each his own way, as long as you are happy in that way. Or-as Sinatra said, "Whatever gets you through the night."

Jocelyn and P_M,
Thanks for the words of advice. I definately hope my husband and I can escape for long weekends now and then although I don't know how many jaunts to Europe we will have in the next couple of years. His family lives nearby and we already have a couple of volunteers in the babysitting department. Hope they don't regret those offers ;-)

I plan to pass on my little travel addiction to my baby, just as my grandparents passed it on to my brothers, cousins and I. Growing up, I looooved hearing about their trips to Asia and Europe and plans for that safari in Africa--and seeing pictures and getting those souveniers only made it more real! When we got older, they started taking us on trips and that clinched it for me. By 19 or 20, I was a travelholic.

JaneG--My grandparents were lucky in that they had the means to travel and spend reasonably freely. Having said that, they never took on debt and in the words of my grandfather, 'tightened their belt' when necessary. I respect that and wasn't criticizing those who have more than me, just discussing MY financial/travel philosophy.

I guess what probably brings most of us together is not just our love of adventure but our need to experience other cultures and not just read about people and places in a book!

Debbie

Hmmm. My car is going to be 14 in a couple of months and I don't drive it much (only 65,000 miles on it) so I save on gas. My parents taught me that for some people, their luxury is their home; for others, their luxury is their car; for some others, it may be something else. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that not everyone "has it all."

I enjoy these posts about the relative value of travel, from those who, like me, value travel highly. We travel a lot, both in the U.S. and in Europe (someday we'll venture beyond), and when we do, we stay in 3-star hotels (nice enough for us), but will splurge on food.

We could afford a much bigger/nicer/better located house, but the one we have is plenty big enough and suits us just fine. I'll admit our cars are pretty nice, but I my last one was old enough when I sold that I had a hard time finding someone willing to buy it! Our clothes are nice enough, we DO NOT own a big-screen TV (can you believe it) or the latest technology of anything. We don't go out to eat much, but when we do, we're willing to spend to have a great meal. (Going out to lunch at work is a big treat.)

Most of the people we know spend much more on all that other stuff than we do(and can afford to), but not many of them travel like we do. We see a lot of people taking the kids to a popular destination, spending much more on a fancy hotel than we would, and staying there for a week. I honestly think most people aren't interested in going to Europe, or elsewhere further away, or even exploring much of the U.S.

I decided decades ago that I would rather spend money on foreign holidays than a car that would spend most of its time rusting on the street - but I'm lucky enough to have the option. I do splash out a bit on the river bus (pun intended) that runs from right beside where I live - it's an added cost, but it's convenient, quick and comfortable.

On the other hand, I'm a skinflint about a lot of things, among them eating out. Spending the equivalent of $200 per person for a restaurant meal just wouldn't be an option for me - in fact, I think I could get quite puritanical about it, though I can perfectly well see that a great 'occasion' meal with friends could be as important a memory - and perhaps less selfish - as sunset on Uluru or snorkelling on the Great Barrier Reef.

This board is great. There are people in our family who won't even talk about any of the travels we've been on -- they think we travel too much. So now we usually don't even mention it any more. But we're the same as a lot of you; we don't put a lot of priority on jewelry or expensive furniture.

But it's really up to us and nobody else what we decide to spend on travel. Everybody has their own priorities, and I don't understand why people get so upset at people who travel or not travel, buy jewelry or not, or anything else they decide to buy or not buy. As long as you're not on government assistance to help fund your purchases, why should I really care?

I have a few friends that I talk to a lot about travel, because they feel the same way I do about it. They also feel like they can't discuss it with a lot of their friends.

That's why I read this board every day -- for my travel fix!

We spend 2-4 weeks each year in Europe and both have brand new cars. However....While on vacation we stay at the cheapest, but cleanest, places we can find. We go out of our way to keep dinner below 10 euro per person although that is getting close to impossible now. We pay in advance via the internet for as many things as possible (hotels, car rental, event tickets). Our two new cars are the cheapest Toyotas on the market. We shop at Walmart (yecch) and buy the store brand. Our house needs new rugs, new paint, new appliances and furniture constructed within the past twenty years. If there's a way to do things cheap, my wife and I employ it just so we can have the time of our lives for a couple weeks each summer.

This is interesting that so many of you can't talk travel with your friends or relatives. I am in the same boat. Some people see it as bragging, others just can't relate to anything you're telling them. So I only talk travel here in Fodorland. :-)

>I seem to meet an awful lot of rich folks on my travels to Europe. <

They're not rich. They are up to their ears in debt. :)

What I find amazing about the original post is that it was inspired by an article in which a 6 year old car was considered REALLY OLD. We just bought a 6 year old car and consider it our NEW car. Our "old" car is 11 years old and still going strong.

Beyond the big-ticket items, we save a significant amount each year on the little things that many people seem to require in life.

Example: My secretary spends about $40 per month on her cool cell phone with tons of minutes. I'm the boss, but I carry an old freebie Nokia that looks like a brick- I pay $10 per month for service with just a few minutes to use in case my car breaks down. $30 savings per month x 12 months=$360 = one off season plane ticket to Paris.

It's the same with cable, Tivo, renting DVDs, buying Starbucks everyday, etc. Those little luxuries can add up.

I'm not condemning then as inherently bad- I would love a cool cell phone- just saying that sometimes you can choose to scrimp in just one little area and see the money add up for a trip.

My DH and I once took a lovely driving trip to Savannah completely financed by collecting all of the change sitting around the house in jars, rolling it and converting it to cash. IT was like winning the lottery!

>...driving trip to Savannah completely financed by collecting all of the change sitting around the house in jars,...<

Way to go!

Ira-

There were literally years' worth of jars. My husband never spends change- just chucks it into a jar. The full jars go to the basement.

Once we rolled all of the coins, I had to use a wheeled suitcase to take them to the bank because I could not lift the combined weight of all the coins. We ended up with around $800 bucks.

This was ten years ago, so gas was MUCH cheaper, of course. It was a bare-bones trip, but it's a fond memory!

Somehow this reminds me of Woody Allen's old gag:

He and his wife were trying to decide whether they should go on vacation or get a divorce. They chose the latter because a trip is nice, but when it's over, it's over. A divorce is something you always have.

Hi All
God I love this forum. Its so great to be in contact with so many people who "understand". I'm surprised to find others tho that feel like they have to keep their travels in the closet. Again I thought I just lived in a unique envrionment. We (wife and I) have to be very careful about talking about where we have been or where we are going. People seem to get the impression that we are bragging and resent it. We even have to downplay it around her parents. They have never been out of the state and are convinced that we are going to wind up in Fallujah at any moment! As an example last summer in Italy, they were OK with our going to Venice -- until someone looked it up on the map and realized its proximity to Croatia. We think this is a lot funnier than they do. At any rate, like some of you above, I definitely tune in to this forum for my daily fix. An incidentally, like someone above, I do believe that travel is a need for some people and not just a want. And for what its worth, the $250 "tip" at Antico Martini included a few "souvenirs". Thanks for your responses.
Shrink

Shrink, your story of your in-laws reminds me of my late grandfather. The only time he ever went out of the US was when he served in WW2. He always remembered post-war Japan, and that was his image of what it's like to be out of the US. He thought that once you step outside of the US, the world is a crazy, dangerous war zone.

I always made it a rule never to talk about travel with him until after I returned from a trip and could tell him what a great time I had. He was OK hearing about it after the fact, but I dared not tell him beforehand. One time at Christmas my sister slipped and told him I was about to go to Greece. He pulled out his hanky, cried, and begged me not to go. I did all I could to reassure him that I would be OK, but he just didn't buy it. Looking back, I should have lied and told him I would cancel, but I didn't think of that at the time. In any case, I know how hard it is to handle situations like this when relatives worry needlessly.

My wife and I live in a townhouse in Chicago. We have commuter, EL and Subay trains in easy reach as well as busess. so I really don't drive very often so my car is old, paid for and rarely used. So our commuting expensives are very low (60 bucks a month)

I recently noticed that I spend more on travel than just about any other leasure activty or purchase. I see lots of people buying BMW's and paying for Dog daycare. Buying twice the house they can afford. I don't like borrowing money for Cars or other "non appreciating " assets, so we live more modestly - and spend alot of our money on vacations

This is how we choose to live our lives, many people really don't see the the benifits of travel and would rather have that 42' plasma than a trip to Europe