Kristina,

I felt it was almost a guarantee one person was going to tell me they'd been to Angor Wat having learned to speak Thai (or whatever Thais speak) before they got on the plane.

I stick by my point. I live in Italy, where the windows of travel agencies are plastered with posters advertising deals on trips to Budapest, Poland, Dubai, Tahiti. I'll bet you any amount of euro you care to name that Italians getting on those planes don't know much about the language or culture they are headed into -- and I'd say the same of Germans, Scots and Americans.

I haven't seen a single person in this thread who travels on whim say it is someone else's fault when their lack of planning netted them a bad trip.

What I keep reading on this thread is that people like you and others have permanent negative memories of your trips abroad about other people. Your loss.

zeppole-my trips have been wonderful. They weren't marred by other travelers who were under prepared. No loss.

I don't feel superior, just better prepared to handle situations that come my way when I do my homework in advance of the trip.
That's not to say I've never been experienced anything I wasn't ready for, but I won't blame others for that (which I <i>have</i> heard others do, both here and while traveling).

BTW, Angkor Wat is in Cambodia, and Cambodians speak Khmer. Yes, people in Thailand speak Thai, but speaking Thai in Cambodia would not have helped me much. I admit to not leaning Khmer before going to Cambodia, but going there to see the temples and not knowing anything about the history of the country (ex: Khmer Rouge genocide) and the fact that Angkor Wat is in Cambodia and not Thailand would be inexcusable for me personally.

Zeppole
I never said it was laughable but i was saying that it belongs to the set of people who just don't look stuff up, at home or while traveling. And yes I do attribute it a bit to whether someone is street smart or not. BTW, cinque Terre is a little more than 3 hours from Nice so you weren't too far off, the Amalfi coast however is about 10 hours away. Just taking a look at a map shows how far it is. To each his own, as long as people have fun. But I do agree with the original poster, if you don't plan and things don't work out you shouldn't whine and complain and blame others. You have to be able to take things as they come since it's an adventure. Example: My husband and I recently got married in Bermuda (about a month ago), we were doing a boat trip with family and friends the day prior to the wedding. We gave everyone the name of the port the boat leaves from, my friend and in laws took a taxi but gave the taxi driver the name of the wrong port so he dropped them off there, they soon realized there mistake and had to take another taxi to get to the correct location. My mother in law was very upset with the taxi driver, she said &quot;he knows we're tourists, he should know&quot;, should know what? where to take you even though you gave him the incorrect location? It was a very small thing really, they made it to the right port at the end and we had a great time, but the taxi driver is not the one to blame for the mishap :)

There is no burden on anyone to learn anything before they travel to a certain location.
If that ignorance results in an
unpleasant experience -- too bad for them.

I don't care how clueless people are, and even if I notice, it is not going to be some&quot; permanent memory &quot; of them.
... Honestly, who gives a damn
about other tourists' knowledge of the language , culture etc...

On the other hand, I can understand why the locals often get exasperated when they are asked a zillion times ( in English) where the Eiffel Tower , is.
Then, they are called &quot; rude French&quot;..

I think the question is interesting, and I don't personally believe CarolA was bragging or being superior. I believe she really is/was surprised by some people's approach to traveling.

Zeppole,
I was just thinking about this over some food and I think you're a 100% right, we are judging others and shouldn't. Or at least I am. I do have some (not a lot) of permanent memories like that, part of me says &quot;how could you not know that&quot; I also roll my eyes at the way some tourists dress at times. I can't help it though!

I didn't use to even notice this stuff, until I started reading about it, then I started noticing more and more. The older I get the more I roll my eyes.

About the French being rude, at the risk of getting slammed, I also think that the French are rude, or maybe just not very tolerant, or maybe just misunderstood. Our experience was very mixed actually but more negative than positive. Of course I can't generalize and decide that all French people are rude based on the sample size that we interacted with.

I did not have preconceived notion going to France, I was going thinking that I was going to love everything and everyone and i speak French, without an accent and I never asked where the Eiffel tower was.

We were at a restaurant with a friend who's a visible minority and we got served last, after others who came in much later than us, even people at the next table were talking about it saying how it's not right of the waiter. We were too tired and hungry at that pt to go elsewhere and just tolerated it.

Another instance: We got yelled at by a shop owner for touching the post cards on display... if you don't like tourists then don't sell postcards!! We were in Crete recently and as I touched the post card stand the whole thing started tipping over, both the shop owner and I started laughing and straightened it.

Positives: we needed directions at some pt, and a man, not only pointed us in the direction we wanted but walked with us to make sure we got to the right place. In a small town in Normandy, I didn't have enough change to buy a bus ticket from a machine and this girl came and bought my ticket for me! and made sure I got on the right bus!!

Btw, I also think that Italians in very touristy areas are rude too. Italians in Florence and Pompei are not very friendly. I think to myself that if I lived somewhere that was overrun by tourists I would get tired of it too but at the same time, if you run a shop in Pompei for example and are fully taking advantage of tourism then you should be a bit nicer. If you don't like the tourists then don't try to take their money and then complain about them.

I haven't read all the posts yet, but had to chime in.

I know a man who makes $10/hr and always wanted to go to Russia. When his passport arrived, he charged an airline ticket and, with a guidebook, wandered around the capital for a few days and then came home.

His marriage didn't survive that escapade.

But he absolutely &quot;loved&quot; his adventure! I kept my mouth shut, though--I really wanted to tell him it could have been so much more with some planning.

&quot;Btw, I also think that Italians in very touristy areas are rude too.&quot;

I have never had anything but pleasant encounters with French and Italians .
My only experience with rude locals was in New York .

I'm with danon... I've only had wonderful encounters with both French and Italians. Yes, they are culturally different than Americans, but certainly not rude.

Rude is often in the eye of the beholder. I have found europeans to be rude - but rarely - just like people everywhere else.

But - if you're expecting everyone to be smiling all the time and greet you like a cousin - well most europeans are more reserved that that. It's NOT rudeness - it's a different culture.

I also challenge the statement about New Yorkers being rude. What you see as rude (ecept in rare cases) is busyness. We need to get more done faster and don;t have time for the aimless gossip and chitchat that seems to take place in many places in shops and restaurants. Everyone is trying to get as much done as fast as possible - that's just how we live - and you shouldn't feel offended that people don;'t have time to chat with you - since it would keep other customers waiting. (You will find more pleasantries in upscale restaurants and more clerks in upscale stores - but in moderate places - there's just no time/staff.)

&quot;I also challenge the statement about New Yorkers being rude. &quot;

You are probably right - it may be the pace of the city that makes some people a bit cranky.

We came across a lady in Paris recently who had eaten every meal in McDonalds. Not because she particularly liked it, but she had done no research prior to the trip and didn't have even a basic idea of how to order a meal in a restaurant. We felt sad for her. She had already decided that she didn't like Paris as a result.

Wow what a crazy example! Not saying it isn't true, but it's hysterical.

And sorry but I don't necessarily believe that &quot;research&quot; would have changed that woman's experience.

I mean you order a meal in a restaurant in Paris exactly the same as anywhere else in the world.... Read the posted menu to see if it looks good, go in, be seated, order drinks/wine, order food (pointing on the menu if you can't manage to speak the language).

I certainly never did any research myself (nor would it have occured to me) on that topic and have managed to eat successfully in several major cities of Europe -lol!

But you're right, maybe if she'd read a guidebook or tips here about dining out, she would have had more confidence. But maybe not. Some people are truly just not meant to travel. It doesn't come naturally to them, and they're not very &quot;good&quot; at it.

I live in NYC - I&quot;M NOT CRANKY.

Danon, you were standing in the middle of the sidewalk on Madison Avenue watching that human statue after putting some change in his cup....

One year we were in France, I think it was Burgundy, and this woman, at breakfast was walking from table to table complaining there was not any cereal.

Hi suze, I think her problem was that she just lacked the confidence to attempt a restaurant as she had no French at all and found the prospect terrifying. The only other place she had been to was to somewhere in Switzerland (I forget where) where she had family who would have taken care of everything for her.

I've found the French to be stand-offish. But I know they find Americans rude. We don't say Bon Jour when we enter a shop. We ask direct questions without a polite preface (je suis desolee de vous deranger, mais....). And it is their country.

cathies, I understand. I was just saying I'm not sure that research or reading a guidebook would have helped someone who is &quot;terrified&quot; to go into a restaurant just because they don't speak the local language. Some people are timid and more afraid of new situations, where other people thrive on it.

I'm not sure book-learning would have given this woman more confidence... but maybe so.
:-)

My friend who lives in Switzerland (french-speaking region) always reminds me if I get flustered... they are a business, they have something you want, they want to sell it to you, so you figure it out together. I can get what I need barely speaking the local language. But that's from practice over many trips, not a skill I could have mastered by reading about it. best regards, suze

What is surprising to me is those who are competent in their normal life, but somehow fail to comprehend how to travel.

A friend repeatedly (for months!) told one of his friends that she needed a passport to travel outside the country and that to get the passport, she needed a copy of her birth certificate. This extremely competent financial planner was incapable of ever getting her birth certificate (let alone the passport) and missed going on the trip.

Needless to say, the friend who counted on her to share a room was very upset.