Phinn - What a fabulous resource you are. Thanks so much for tuning in. You say your kids switched to an American Int'l school - meaning it was composed only of English-speaking students? If so, I'm curious to know why you decided to go there rather than a bi-lingual Int'l school? (Forgive me if my question doesn't make sense. I'm still trying to figure out the various subsets of Int'l schools.)

How does our daughter feel? We haven't even mentioned the subject because at this point (being perfectly honest here) it is just an idea, & we're trying to determine whether or not we can make it fly. If I casually mentioned that there was the slightest chance that we might move to Paris, she would pretty much go out of her mind; would talk about nothing else, would think about nothing else, and would never forgive us if it didn't happen. Does that give you some idea of how she'd feel? I've taken her to Paris for the past 3 Spring Recesses, & each time we're there she makes her case for why it would be the most marvelous thing in the world if we could live there. On an average, she asks, "Do you think we'll ever live in Paris?" about once every 4 months. She'd leave her friends in a heartbeat & never look back - that's how she feels about living in Paris.

So this move would be for her much more than for us. But don't get me wrong - it would *not* be a case of, "Oh, she so wants to live there, so let's just do it." Hah! No, we'd do it because it would be a life-changing/forming experience that she'd have with her forever.

How much of a trial would this be for me and my husband? Significant, my friend, very significant. This is not a case of being moved over there by an employer. We'd be doing, and paying for, everything by ourselves. Probably the biggest hurdle would be selling the house before we go. The market is not what it used to be & if we tried to sell it today we'd take a brutal beating. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know what the housing market will be in 12 months, tho it's not likely to change much, but we have to do all of the planning first & hope that the house sale (or non-sale) doesn't end up cancelling the whole thing.

I'm still wondering - and all the more so since you said this idea just surfaced last night - if you have any clear understanding of what's involved in moving to France for two years. Never mind your daughter's education there - what are your plans? I'll repeat what I said before about not just being able to take off and move to France (or any other country). You do have jobs lines up there, right? Sponsorship? Work permits? Proper visas?

If all that isn't already in place it's awfully premature to be worrying about schooling.

From a slightly different perspective, we took our two sons to from British schools to Paris for three years. They were aged 14 and 16 at the time. The only way they would have been allowed into the Lycée at St Germain was for them to do a preparatory year there which would get them up to speed in the language, though they might have been prepared for the younger one to struggle through, learning as he went. The Lycée was just around the corner from where we were living, but we ended up choosing the British School. It was nothing whatever like being at school at home and both ended up fluent anyway. You really can't avoid absorbing the language when you are there.

There is one proviso about taking lessons in French. In subjects where you are learning a specialised vocabulary, you may find that your daughter would end up not knowing the English equivalent, meaning that if she returned to the States for further education, she may have some (minimal) re-learning to do. Not a big point, but something I hadn't considered before being there.

That was a good few years ago, and both sons have returned to, and live, in France. One is married to a French girl. Be prepared that life may never be the same again! :) It is a wonderful experience.

Why sell the house? if you are only planning on two year in Paris then why not rent it out instead?
How are you planning on living in Paris? What sort of work are you considering? Do seriously look into the regulations for moving to France, as St Cirq said it isn't just a case of thinking you can up sticks and move there for a couple of years.
If you are thinking of doing this more for your daughter then I wouldn't do it. Let her finish high school in her own school, and her own language. Moving would be very disruptive for her.
My children went to Dutch schools, and went through the immersion process. They were a lot younger than your daughter (the oldest was 7), and picked up the language quickly, but they were miserable for at least the first year. My middle son, now nearly 30, only told me recently how much he hated primary school and his parents for moving him to the Netherlands.
Dutch friends of my sons moved to Brussels at age 10 and 12, then Argentina, and finally to France, through their father's work. They attended international schools throughout and now have friends through out the world. They both however opted to go to university back in the Netherlands, back in a "safe" Dutch environment even though one of them was accepted for MIT!.
My point is that although your daughter may like the fantasy the reality may be completely different.

I understood Phinn differently. I believe he is an ex-pat here in the US now. His kids started out in their native French school system and are now here in an International School.

Even in an International Bacalaaureate program, she will need a French tutor (and I would hire one as soon as you decide you are going to go on this adventure - find a native French speaker). She will take her IB exam in French, and just 2 years of French in an IB program will put her at a disadvantage compared to the non-native French speaking students who have been taking French for years).

International schools are not for English speakers only. The children will be from around the world and speak many different languages. Almost all of them will speak English as a 2nd or 3rd language. Many of these students have parents who work for international companies. As these families move around the world, the International Schools program allows them to continue their education uninterrupted by the changing of countries and schools. Some parents are from other countries and seek to have their child continue learning their language (example, French woman marries Spanish man, they live in Paris and want kids to be fluent in Spanish as well as French). Most of the children who attend these international schools are not spoiled American kids whose parents want to go on holiday for a couple of years or who are looking for an adventure to put on their child's college application.

On a positive note I believe there are SAT testing centres at various times of the year in different countries so she still can take the SAT and that would still be fine for a U.S. and European university entry.

Just an FYI if she attends university in Europe she most likely be considered a non EU student and potentially pay non EU fees which are much more like U.S. college fees.

International schools can be a great experience and as stated above many kids have English as a second language and it may broaden her horizons even more.

Good luck and I hope you go!

I cannot speak for the schools in Paris, but we lived overseas for 7 years and my kids were in international schools. In Cairo, they attended Cairo American College, which - while started and heavily supported by the US Embassy - is very much an international school and is slowly (at the HS level) moving toward an IB curriculum. In Azerbaijan, they attended a small international school with the IB program. In each school there were easily 50+ nationalities represented.

Yes, English is the language used for teaching, but walking up and down the halls or around campus - you would hear all different sorts of languages. Celebrating the different cultures of the students and the culture of the host country is a big part of these schools.

And, yes, many of these kids could be considered "privileged" in that their parents are corporate expats or local wealthy citizens. But you also have military kids, embassy kids, foreign aid (USAID, WHO, etc) kids - who don't exactly fit that "priviledged" idea.

We are now back in the US and the kids are enjoying the things they missed out on for years (like football games!), but we wouldnt trade our years overseas for anything.

Well - I'm kind of confused. If you daughter has been to Paris several times and loves it, why isn;t she tudying French now. Did she select another language for some special reason? Of is it that her French just isn;t good? (I would think the first thing to do is for her to do immersion classes in French here - no matter what type of school she goes to she will be in France - and need to be fluent to get along at an even more basic level than classes.)

(I had a friend n college who went to an American school in Paris for a year when her father ws transferred thre. When she came back she knew essentially NO French - my one year of high school French ws much better than her 10/12 phrases).

So - no matter wht the choice, why not have her start heavy duty French lesone now?

nytraveler: "If you daughter has been to Paris ... why isn't she studying French now?" Hmmm. Did I say she wasn't? I said she's not fluent. She's in her 3rd year of French, presently in an Honors class which is moving very quickly.

<<Author: padams421
Date: 01/27/2009, 09:23 am

Even in an International Bacalaaureate program, she will need a French tutor (and I would hire one as soon as you decide you are going to go on this adventure - find a native French speaker). She will take her IB exam in French, and just 2 years of French in an IB program will put her at a disadvantage compared to the non-native French speaking students who have been taking French for years). >>

I don't understand this. I can see this at a FRENCH school that follows the IB curriculum, but at all the international schools I've looked at, the IB program is taught in English and therefore the exams are in English.

AnnM: Re: "They were aged 14 and 16 ... only way they would have been allowed into the Lycée at St Germain was for them to do a preparatory year there which would get them up to speed in the language." That is an on-target fact that is extremely helpful. I'm curious to know how many years of French they'd had in school prior to your arrival.

As for your sons living in France now - good for you! I don't see my daughter living in the US as an adult, and neither does she, so our idea of a 2-year stint in Paris would also serve as an introduction to "real life" in Europe, which would be very different from the way we live during Spring holiday.

"I don't understand this. I can see this at a FRENCH school that follows the IB curriculum, but at all the international schools I've looked at, the IB program is taught in English and therefore the exams are in English."

I was referring to the French (or 2nd language exam) exam.

Oh - gotcha. But if she isn't confident in French, she could possible take the Ab Initio class, which is more like a beginner's class.

Clarin asks

"Though you say "she will need private lessons on the side, and tutoring ..." Are you suggesting that even at an International school she would require significant outside assistance to keep up?"

Yes, absolutely a tutor for various subjects so she doesn't for a moment get that dreadful sinking feeling of having missed the boat - and private lessons for intense French studies on the side: Conversation, reading, writing, litérature, cinéma outings with post-mortem discussion strictly in French - the works!
Nightly watching of news with expectation of being able to summarize, in French only, what she heard.
Daily reading of newspaper with ditto.

An intense 9 months of that and maybe, just maybe, she has a hope of getting an appointment to see if she fits into a French school for the next school year.

Right now you're just absorbing and wondering and taking in all kinds of input.

If this exploratory stage results in a green light, the moment you pull the trigger is the moment when your daughter needs to start private lessons in French and do all the things I just mentioned, so that she can cope triumphantly, not reluctantly and embarrassingly, when she gets to France. She needs to feel GREAT about the progress she's making - it will still be like a cold shower when she gets thrown into the reality on arrival.

To learn fair-to-middling English gets you by if you have a non-English background.

To know only fair-to-middling French doesn't cut it, so her confidence level has to be raised as much as can be before she even gets there. It will still be a humbling experience at first - stumbling in English is ok, stumbling in French is disastrous to the ego. It's just that kind of language, too beautiful and rich to mess up.

Seven more deep breaths - I wish you luck.

I teach 16-19 year olds in a UK college. I'd say she needs access to friends she can talk to in her own language. Whether or not she could cope with the work in French is one thing but can you imagine how lonely it would be to not be able to speak to anyone during the school day? And no matter how good you are as parents no teenager can have the same conversation with parents as they can with friends about TV shows, boys, general gossip.

I taught a girl last year who arrived from Poland knowing no English and a year later had 10 GCSE's. So learning a language and passing exams can be done but you don't know that at the moment. And this girl didn't pass her English exam so is retaking it. Which means she is only doing 3 AS levels whereas the norm is 4. This means some of the better universities won't even look at her application.

I think an American or international school would be best. If she went to a 'British' international school she could start the IB (International Baccalaureate) it's equivalent to the French one but taught in English and accepted pretty much world wide.

Alternatively if becoming fluent in French is important to both of you and she is prepared to put the effort in you could enrol her in a French school but put her back a year so she has a year of just learning French and adjusting before starting IB work. I don't even know if this is possible but could be worth exploring.

Good luck with whatever you decide.