How to find info on all Parisian high schools?
 

We are contemplating a 2-year stay in Paris, beginning summer of 2010. My daughter will be entering junior yr of high school at that time, so I'm guessing I need to locate the high schools & get going on this *yesterday* in order to have her interviewed, tested & enrolled for the fall of 2010.

Any advice on this adventure would be greatly appreciated. For all I know there could be a limited number of schools that accept foreign nationals. Not interested in an "American school" type of thing. She's not fluent in French, but I'm hoping she'd survive an immersion situation :/

If you are intending on her returning with you in two years and entering university you really should consider an international school as she may not be up for or eligible for the French Baccalaureate exams and she will probably look to take her SAT's also Junior and senior year is where Universities will look at her academic records and if she does not speak or read french well you could be delaying her education and hold her back from university by at least a year. Not all international schools are exp or full of a certain embassy expat crowd. Do some research as i do believe there may be an American school in Paris and this is a vccritical time in her education. I think its even too late to get her on the IB track that many expat schools use (International Baccalaureate) Not sure I spelled that right!

Best of luck!

Thanks for the input, Siobhan. As for whether or not she elects to return to the states after 2 years - who knows? Staying in Europe for college is an option.

I was just reading the US Embassy website, where I found a lot of info on schools, and learned of the pesky French Baccalaureate exams, that you mentioned. Indeed, there are some schools that offer the International Option of the French Baccalaureate ("OIB"), but you mention the possibility that junior year may be too late to get on that track, so I'll have to direct my attention to that issue straight away.

Believe me, I am well-aware of the critical nature of these academic years. Our school district is filled with children who learned to say Harvard and MIT before they entered 2nd grade, and it has only gotten worse. It is normal for MIT alum fathers to stay up all night doing science projects for their children in Jr High. Very normal. The only thing the kids in this area speak about is college, but it has been this way since 3rd grade - I kid you not. 99% of the parents have no interest in their children having a "childhood" per se. They only exist to get into an ivy league school. But not just any ivy league - they need to get into one of the "good" ivy league schools! The parents' lives revolve around this goal and we are sick to death of it.

Sorry to rant. Just wanted to you know that I am aware.

The American Embassy does have a list of schools in Paris, but those are probably "American schools" or something like that.

You can't just go wherever you want. If your daughter ges to public school (at that age, it would be a lycee unless she intended to go to a vocational school), she has to go to one in the neighborhood where you live. You would go to the Services des Ecoles in the mayor's office (mairie) of your arrondisement for information on enrollment and where she would have to go. You need passport information, birth certificate, proof as to residence in the school district, etc.

I don't know how it works as to whether she would have to take the brevet for admission to a lycee, or not, and I wouldn't want to bet on how that would work if she is not very good at written French. That is an examination in French, math and history/geography which determines where you can be admitted (eg, a lycee classique rather than a more vocational school or lycee technique or lycee professionel).

You might look into private schoools, some are subsidized by the government and would be cheaper than the ones that are not. I think an international school might be best, as you can't expect your daughter to get by very well in a regular French school if she doesn't know French that well, it can be very rigorous and she could get bad grades. They are not likely to make special exception for kids who can't keep up. It can be very competititve to get into some of the best international schools, also, such as the Lycee International in St Germain, but that's would to look into. International schools usually have a lot of classes in English and can award a variety of degrees, like an American diploma or an OIB (Option INternationale du Baccalaureat).

There are some French bilingual schools who attempt to mainstream non-French speakers into regular French classes after a year or so. If you are only there two years, and at that age, I'm not sure how that would work or if that would be appropriate but I think it could be, if she is strongly interested in learning French better. It's something to look into. I think they can also award the OIB rather than focusing on prep for the French bac.

that's all I know, it's a lot to find out about, that's for sure. Some expat websites might be more helpful.

This is the website of the Lycee International in St Germain en Laye

http://www.lycee-international.com/

this is some other international school but I haven't heard much about it, don't know if it's appropriate or not
http://www.eab.fr/

Here's a link for you:

http://ssa.paris.online.fr/pages/Int.Schools.htm

I also think an international school is your best, and perhaps only option.

You might try the Expatica website also.

I trust you have all the information you need to get your visas and so forth, and that you do realize you can't just go live in Paris for 2 years without them.

Christina: You've brought up many very good points. A public school is out, as I believe we need to begin the application process immediately & we have no idea where we'll be living. I think it will be a full-time job researching the schools and circumnavigating the various application processes. We probably won't even begin to look for an apartment until she's been accepted someplace.

In any case, I was just reading about Lycee International in St Germain en Laye, as it's listed on the US Embassy site, which appears to be rather comprehensive. Thanks again for the input.

StCirq: Thanks for the link & the Expatica info. That's exactly the sort of site I need.

Regarding our Visas and so forth: indeed I'll have to address the red tape sooner rather than later & I appreciate your bringing it up.

I can't imagine that she will be able to do the work required in a French high school if she doesn;t already have an excellent command of French. Not what you can pick up in a month - but realy fluent French.

Even IF she decides she wants to go to university in europe - having miserable grades her last 2 years won;t allow her to do so.

Realy, a school with classes conducted in English is the only realistic option if she expects to get decent grades.

Sorry - assumed you were talking about a private school conducted in French. I can't imagine how she would even get into a public school without enough French to pass the exams.

To prevent possible shell-shock: On a year-to-year comparison, the French are far more advanced than the Americans, and a BAC is nothing like a HSC, a BAC is more like a bachelors.

In other words, your daughter may have an awful lot of catching up to do in many subjects just to enter her age's grade, never mind the language problem (which also puts her behind in lit. and such subjects).

I would aim right now at a school that is experienced in bringing American students up to speed, maybe for the first of your two years in Paris, and start her on a course to prepare for that first year, starting right now.

If the French consulate can't help, maybe your nearest Alliance Française can?

If she works really hard with the right tutoring during that first year, maybe, just maybe, she'll make it into a "real" French school for the second year. But it will be tough!

I think putting a child or teenager into a school where they have to do all of their classes in another language without ever having learned the language properly, borders on cruelty. Imagine yourself in that situation. My daughter, though raised bi-lingually and who speaks and reads English and German fairly equally, absolutely cringes at the thought of having to do algebra or chemistry in English. It is a whole different thing than just having a conversation, or reading a book. Seriously think about this. One of the international schools would be far better, though they cost a fortune, unless your company is paying for it. All the students I have met (and I have met a lot of them!)who have gone to these "international" schools all over the world seem to be very well educated and balanced. Yes, this is where the kids of the foreign service employees and the diplomats go, but they have never come across as stuck up to me. I would have loved to have had my kids go to an international school. I have seen kids get thrown into schools where they don't speak the language well or at all, and it is enough to make ya cry. How frustrating to know you are smart, but not be able to understand anything.

International schools follow the International Baccalaureate program. It is a 2 year program done during the equivalent of the U.S. junior and senior years of high school. It would probably be the best program for your daughter as it would be accepted by American universities as well as foreign universities. Since she is not fluent in French, I suggest hiring a tutor asap to work on her fluency.
You also might consider sending her to France for a summer program this summer or as a foreign exchange student next year to see if it is something she wants to do for 2 years. Good luck!

Really appreciate all of the detailed info regarding the French schools. Very helpful & eye-opening, indeed! Last night, when this move-to-France idea surfaced, I told my husband it was insane(!) to think that our daughter could manage junior & senior year immersed in French. However, my husband went through a somewhat similar situation as a child, so he thought she could do it. Now that he's read the responses, he agrees that it would be a bit much.

The idea of sending her to an international school doesn't have a whole lot of appeal though. If she's going to spend her days in a school full of English-speaking kids who are oozing entitlement, she might as well stay home. She can do that here. Granted, there's much to be gained from living abroad for 2 years, but it just isn't the same if she's not spending her days with French kids. Just not the same.

Going to the International schools is nothing like going to schools in the States. For one, there is the emphasis on the host nation language, all the kids are from all around the world - so she would not be spending her days with "English" speaking kids as most of them will have English as a 2nd language, & they do a lot of projects to help 3rd world countries. At the Frankfurt International school, the students raise money all year long and then go down to Africa to build schools (this includes buying the water, cement, desks, books, etc.) and also over to places like Romania to repair schools. Oprah would do well to take a look at a project like this. Most of these kids do not ooze entitlement as you put it. They may have lived in some of the poorest countries on earth, seen dire poverty up close, and they are nothing like kids who grow up in the states. They know they are lucky, but seem grateful for it, not snooty.

You state your husband went through a similar situation as a child. As a child it is quite different than doing it as a teenager. Just cause he did it, does it mean his daughter should have the same difficulties. Why would you wish something like this on your daughter is beyond me. Perhaps as a 1st grader, but not 11th grade.

Clarin sez "[...] If she's going to spend her days in a school full of English-speaking kids who are oozing entitlement, she might as well stay home [...] it just isn't the same if she's not spending her days with French kids."

True, but it doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both.

For the bulk of the serious studying she needs to be in a school where she understands and keeps up and - dare I say - forges ahead of where the average US high school is at that point.

But she will need private lessons on the side, and tutoring - both should be done by French instructors.

And there is so much more to the stay in France. For example, her music lessons should be taken with somebody who speaks French to her. Her dance lessons or whatever else she does to keep her creative - ditto.

She will make friends in various activities - they will be French. Among her French friends and acquaintances she will be the "other", the "different one" - sought out by some, disliked by others (the difficult age...) and you the parents will foster friendships like that by having her friends come over.

There is a way to isolate oneself, and there is a way to immerse oneself. Use the expat community as a resource, but avoid getting absorbed to the point that most of your contacts are US-Americans.

Reach out, you'll quickly learn about the etiquette of making French friends, and since you're the well-meaning foreigner you are forgiven all kinds of little faux-pas that you don't even know you commit in the rather formal society that is France - your cultural immersion will take place if you wish it so.

If your daughter likes the whole idea, how this will make her a different person, how her horizons will be so much wider, and if she sees that it will mean a heck of a lot of work, but the kind of work that you see pay off - by being more fluent, by "getting" it and becoming accepted - if all that works for her, after one year of hard work she will be ahead in leaps and bounds.

Mainhattengirl takes too dim a view of this - the benefits outweigh the disadvantages 3:1 as long as your daughter works hard and keep her eye on the prize. The fact that it is an international school (not an American-only school) with a mix of already bilingual students is an enrichment, not a hindrance. With tutoring and private lessons on the side, your daughter can succeed and be much the richer for it.

I know that it's all new for you now, the whole concept, and daunting - stick with it, keep input coming and discuss things, change your minds daiily - soon some firm ideas will crystallize and you'll get closer to a decision.

You missed my point. I am FOR the daughter going to an international school, not against. I am against the daughter trying to make it in a French school. Big difference. I think the international schools are wonderful. The mom is the one who thinks they are not wonderful.

Ok, gotcha. My point:
All-French-immersion-only = vote No.
International school (English-only) = vote No.
International school with lots of French immersion around it = vote YES.
Einverstanden?

Jawohl!

Oh wise DalaiLlama, you've made it all sound so delightful, so peaceful and serene. I feel I've just experienced a "guided meditation" of our first year in Paris.

Though you say "she will need private lessons on the side, and tutoring ..." Are you suggesting that even at an International school she would require significant outside assistance to keep up?

You're right - it is daunting at this point since it's still so abstract, new and unknown. I certainly appreciate your wisdom, kind words & encouragement.

From the point of view of an expat parent whose children are bilingual(Fr/Eng) and who were in the Fr. system until switching to an American Int'l school in Grade 9, I would say the chances of your daughter surviving in an all- French lycee are very slim indeed! The lycee is not geared to making outsiders feel at home, nor are any allowances made for children whose mother tongue is not French. Staff seem to regard anyone who deviates from the norm as problematic, so no special help can be expected from that quarter and indeed, most would consider same 'way beyond their call of duty!
You have not told us how your daughter feels about this proposition: HER attitude is key! If she is not esp. thrilled at the idea of leaving her friends to go abroad at this crucial time in her education, all your best plans may fall apart, while she might even lose a year of
schooling. Who's more eager to pursue this option, is it your daughter or only you, the parents?!

BTW, when the time comes, you might want to consider Montreal's McGill University, right up there with the top-ranking others but a lot less hypped!

Phinn - What a fabulous resource you are. Thanks so much for tuning in. You say your kids switched to an American Int'l school - meaning it was composed only of English-speaking students? If so, I'm curious to know why you decided to go there rather than a bi-lingual Int'l school? (Forgive me if my question doesn't make sense. I'm still trying to figure out the various subsets of Int'l schools.)

How does our daughter feel? We haven't even mentioned the subject because at this point (being perfectly honest here) it is just an idea, & we're trying to determine whether or not we can make it fly. If I casually mentioned that there was the slightest chance that we might move to Paris, she would pretty much go out of her mind; would talk about nothing else, would think about nothing else, and would never forgive us if it didn't happen. Does that give you some idea of how she'd feel? I've taken her to Paris for the past 3 Spring Recesses, & each time we're there she makes her case for why it would be the most marvelous thing in the world if we could live there. On an average, she asks, "Do you think we'll ever live in Paris?" about once every 4 months. She'd leave her friends in a heartbeat & never look back - that's how she feels about living in Paris.

So this move would be for her much more than for us. But don't get me wrong - it would *not* be a case of, "Oh, she so wants to live there, so let's just do it." Hah! No, we'd do it because it would be a life-changing/forming experience that she'd have with her forever.

How much of a trial would this be for me and my husband? Significant, my friend, very significant. This is not a case of being moved over there by an employer. We'd be doing, and paying for, everything by ourselves. Probably the biggest hurdle would be selling the house before we go. The market is not what it used to be & if we tried to sell it today we'd take a brutal beating. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know what the housing market will be in 12 months, tho it's not likely to change much, but we have to do all of the planning first & hope that the house sale (or non-sale) doesn't end up cancelling the whole thing.

I'm still wondering - and all the more so since you said this idea just surfaced last night - if you have any clear understanding of what's involved in moving to France for two years. Never mind your daughter's education there - what are your plans? I'll repeat what I said before about not just being able to take off and move to France (or any other country). You do have jobs lines up there, right? Sponsorship? Work permits? Proper visas?

If all that isn't already in place it's awfully premature to be worrying about schooling.

From a slightly different perspective, we took our two sons to from British schools to Paris for three years. They were aged 14 and 16 at the time. The only way they would have been allowed into the Lycée at St Germain was for them to do a preparatory year there which would get them up to speed in the language, though they might have been prepared for the younger one to struggle through, learning as he went. The Lycée was just around the corner from where we were living, but we ended up choosing the British School. It was nothing whatever like being at school at home and both ended up fluent anyway. You really can't avoid absorbing the language when you are there.

There is one proviso about taking lessons in French. In subjects where you are learning a specialised vocabulary, you may find that your daughter would end up not knowing the English equivalent, meaning that if she returned to the States for further education, she may have some (minimal) re-learning to do. Not a big point, but something I hadn't considered before being there.

That was a good few years ago, and both sons have returned to, and live, in France. One is married to a French girl. Be prepared that life may never be the same again! :) It is a wonderful experience.

Why sell the house? if you are only planning on two year in Paris then why not rent it out instead?
How are you planning on living in Paris? What sort of work are you considering? Do seriously look into the regulations for moving to France, as St Cirq said it isn't just a case of thinking you can up sticks and move there for a couple of years.
If you are thinking of doing this more for your daughter then I wouldn't do it. Let her finish high school in her own school, and her own language. Moving would be very disruptive for her.
My children went to Dutch schools, and went through the immersion process. They were a lot younger than your daughter (the oldest was 7), and picked up the language quickly, but they were miserable for at least the first year. My middle son, now nearly 30, only told me recently how much he hated primary school and his parents for moving him to the Netherlands.
Dutch friends of my sons moved to Brussels at age 10 and 12, then Argentina, and finally to France, through their father's work. They attended international schools throughout and now have friends through out the world. They both however opted to go to university back in the Netherlands, back in a "safe" Dutch environment even though one of them was accepted for MIT!.
My point is that although your daughter may like the fantasy the reality may be completely different.

I understood Phinn differently. I believe he is an ex-pat here in the US now. His kids started out in their native French school system and are now here in an International School.

Even in an International Bacalaaureate program, she will need a French tutor (and I would hire one as soon as you decide you are going to go on this adventure - find a native French speaker). She will take her IB exam in French, and just 2 years of French in an IB program will put her at a disadvantage compared to the non-native French speaking students who have been taking French for years).

International schools are not for English speakers only. The children will be from around the world and speak many different languages. Almost all of them will speak English as a 2nd or 3rd language. Many of these students have parents who work for international companies. As these families move around the world, the International Schools program allows them to continue their education uninterrupted by the changing of countries and schools. Some parents are from other countries and seek to have their child continue learning their language (example, French woman marries Spanish man, they live in Paris and want kids to be fluent in Spanish as well as French). Most of the children who attend these international schools are not spoiled American kids whose parents want to go on holiday for a couple of years or who are looking for an adventure to put on their child's college application.

On a positive note I believe there are SAT testing centres at various times of the year in different countries so she still can take the SAT and that would still be fine for a U.S. and European university entry.

Just an FYI if she attends university in Europe she most likely be considered a non EU student and potentially pay non EU fees which are much more like U.S. college fees.

International schools can be a great experience and as stated above many kids have English as a second language and it may broaden her horizons even more.

Good luck and I hope you go!

I cannot speak for the schools in Paris, but we lived overseas for 7 years and my kids were in international schools. In Cairo, they attended Cairo American College, which - while started and heavily supported by the US Embassy - is very much an international school and is slowly (at the HS level) moving toward an IB curriculum. In Azerbaijan, they attended a small international school with the IB program. In each school there were easily 50+ nationalities represented.

Yes, English is the language used for teaching, but walking up and down the halls or around campus - you would hear all different sorts of languages. Celebrating the different cultures of the students and the culture of the host country is a big part of these schools.

And, yes, many of these kids could be considered "privileged" in that their parents are corporate expats or local wealthy citizens. But you also have military kids, embassy kids, foreign aid (USAID, WHO, etc) kids - who don't exactly fit that "priviledged" idea.

We are now back in the US and the kids are enjoying the things they missed out on for years (like football games!), but we wouldnt trade our years overseas for anything.

Well - I'm kind of confused. If you daughter has been to Paris several times and loves it, why isn;t she tudying French now. Did she select another language for some special reason? Of is it that her French just isn;t good? (I would think the first thing to do is for her to do immersion classes in French here - no matter what type of school she goes to she will be in France - and need to be fluent to get along at an even more basic level than classes.)

(I had a friend n college who went to an American school in Paris for a year when her father ws transferred thre. When she came back she knew essentially NO French - my one year of high school French ws much better than her 10/12 phrases).

So - no matter wht the choice, why not have her start heavy duty French lesone now?

nytraveler: "If you daughter has been to Paris ... why isn't she studying French now?" Hmmm. Did I say she wasn't? I said she's not fluent. She's in her 3rd year of French, presently in an Honors class which is moving very quickly.

<<Author: padams421
Date: 01/27/2009, 09:23 am

Even in an International Bacalaaureate program, she will need a French tutor (and I would hire one as soon as you decide you are going to go on this adventure - find a native French speaker). She will take her IB exam in French, and just 2 years of French in an IB program will put her at a disadvantage compared to the non-native French speaking students who have been taking French for years). >>

I don't understand this. I can see this at a FRENCH school that follows the IB curriculum, but at all the international schools I've looked at, the IB program is taught in English and therefore the exams are in English.

AnnM: Re: "They were aged 14 and 16 ... only way they would have been allowed into the Lycée at St Germain was for them to do a preparatory year there which would get them up to speed in the language." That is an on-target fact that is extremely helpful. I'm curious to know how many years of French they'd had in school prior to your arrival.

As for your sons living in France now - good for you! I don't see my daughter living in the US as an adult, and neither does she, so our idea of a 2-year stint in Paris would also serve as an introduction to "real life" in Europe, which would be very different from the way we live during Spring holiday.

"I don't understand this. I can see this at a FRENCH school that follows the IB curriculum, but at all the international schools I've looked at, the IB program is taught in English and therefore the exams are in English."

I was referring to the French (or 2nd language exam) exam.

Oh - gotcha. But if she isn't confident in French, she could possible take the Ab Initio class, which is more like a beginner's class.

Clarin asks

"Though you say "she will need private lessons on the side, and tutoring ..." Are you suggesting that even at an International school she would require significant outside assistance to keep up?"

Yes, absolutely a tutor for various subjects so she doesn't for a moment get that dreadful sinking feeling of having missed the boat - and private lessons for intense French studies on the side: Conversation, reading, writing, litérature, cinéma outings with post-mortem discussion strictly in French - the works!
Nightly watching of news with expectation of being able to summarize, in French only, what she heard.
Daily reading of newspaper with ditto.

An intense 9 months of that and maybe, just maybe, she has a hope of getting an appointment to see if she fits into a French school for the next school year.

Right now you're just absorbing and wondering and taking in all kinds of input.

If this exploratory stage results in a green light, the moment you pull the trigger is the moment when your daughter needs to start private lessons in French and do all the things I just mentioned, so that she can cope triumphantly, not reluctantly and embarrassingly, when she gets to France. She needs to feel GREAT about the progress she's making - it will still be like a cold shower when she gets thrown into the reality on arrival.

To learn fair-to-middling English gets you by if you have a non-English background.

To know only fair-to-middling French doesn't cut it, so her confidence level has to be raised as much as can be before she even gets there. It will still be a humbling experience at first - stumbling in English is ok, stumbling in French is disastrous to the ego. It's just that kind of language, too beautiful and rich to mess up.

Seven more deep breaths - I wish you luck.

I teach 16-19 year olds in a UK college. I'd say she needs access to friends she can talk to in her own language. Whether or not she could cope with the work in French is one thing but can you imagine how lonely it would be to not be able to speak to anyone during the school day? And no matter how good you are as parents no teenager can have the same conversation with parents as they can with friends about TV shows, boys, general gossip.

I taught a girl last year who arrived from Poland knowing no English and a year later had 10 GCSE's. So learning a language and passing exams can be done but you don't know that at the moment. And this girl didn't pass her English exam so is retaking it. Which means she is only doing 3 AS levels whereas the norm is 4. This means some of the better universities won't even look at her application.

I think an American or international school would be best. If she went to a 'British' international school she could start the IB (International Baccalaureate) it's equivalent to the French one but taught in English and accepted pretty much world wide.

Alternatively if becoming fluent in French is important to both of you and she is prepared to put the effort in you could enrol her in a French school but put her back a year so she has a year of just learning French and adjusting before starting IB work. I don't even know if this is possible but could be worth exploring.

Good luck with whatever you decide.