HOW ARE NIGHT TRAINS?
 

We want to spend as much time as we can taking in all of the wonderful locations for our Honeymoon in May. Does anyone recommend taking the train at night (sleeper?) to travel from one destination to the next?

On your honeymoon??? I would rather stick a sharp pencil in my eye - or spend my honeymoon in the in-laws spare bedroom!

Are the night trains that bad??? We are taking the Orient-Express from Venice to Paris, however we are planning to take trains from Vienna to Lucerne & from Lucerne to Rome (each 10 hour rides). We will be giving up 2 full days if we take trains during the day. What do you think?

I envy you the Orient Express. I don't envy you any other European night train. If it were me I pare down my itinerary rather than take one.

oh, it's not THAT bad!

We did Venice-Paris last year (along with 2 Talgo Spanish trains) and the Venice-Paris train cabin was filthy (we were in a 4-bed 1st class cabin). The trains are much, MUCH older.
(We loved the Talgo ones though).
However, you'll survive and have a grand adventure. Just remember to line everything you sit on with the blankets they provide you.

Seriously, if I were you I would not hesitate to take an overnight train, but take heed of two things:
1. make sure you put a limit on how many you want to take. Personally, on a honeymoon I would probably only take 1 or 2 overnight trains MAXIMUM.

2. try to get a first class cabin, maybe a private two-berth cabin if cost is no objection, and make the best of it.

Beware!!!!!! I've heard that night trains are very dark making it hard to see the "wonderful locations for your honeymoon".

Curious

That sounds like traveling back and forth around Europe a lot--are you going from Vienna to Luzern then down to Rome then back from Venice to Paris? I can see your point about the Vienna to Lucerne trip, and the Orient Express is obviously an experience in itself (although won't save you time over a flight), but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on overnight regular trains.

I thought the Orient Express cost about $2000 per person. I'd rather take another trip for that amount, but can understand that special experience may be attractive. The other routes aren't appealing to do at night, and I don't like overnight trains much -- really wouldn't on a honeymoon. What kind of sleeping arrangements would that be? I'd probably change my itinerary than all those long train trips.

We took the night train fron Krakow to Prague - and we hope to never have that experience again. I give you one word of advice - FLY. ((F))

The only way I would recommend a night train is if you made reservations for a 2 person couchette (sp?). There is no way I would recommend a 4 or 6 berth or even regular seating. My husband and I made that mistake before and it was our most miserable travel experience. We spent the whole next day sleeping.
Something else to consider is what type of sleeper you are. If you are a light sleeper, forget it.
I'll agree with others that this is not the most romantic way to travel (think bunk beds). But from your other posts I see that you've been married for awhile and this is a delayed honeymoon. It is also the only way I can figure that you'll really get to see anything in between all of your very long train rides.

We went on the Artesia overnight from Paris to Rome for exactly the same reason---we did not want to waste a day on the trip. I was traveling with my 13-year-old son, and we both had books to read. It was cramped, but it really was not that bad. Presumably,you and your intended will have lots to talk about on the trip. Intimacy is all about shared experiences, and even if the train ride is not fabulously romantic, I'll bet you look back on it with great fondness 20 years from now.

ps we were in a two person couchette and it was fine---just like being on a ship, with all the clever uses of space. If price is no object, first class would be even better.

This is really concerning me. When I asked about this before, I got a couple of less than positive responses about the train. But, on the whole, people acted like it was a good experience that was fun because you can't experience it in the US (most of the time). I'm a pretty sound sleeper, so I wasn't that worried about that part.

so, I went and bought the 60E Mini C fare for the Artesia train from Paris to Rome.

Now all of your posts have me worried. I hate sleeping in filth and all of you make it sound like its the worst thing that ever happened to you. Should I be buying a Ryanair ticket and just take the nonrefundable train fare as a loss?

Just because ONE train from Venice to Paris was filthy for one poster does not mean that ALL trains are. That's like visiting Rome and deciding it's so filthy you won't go to Paris.

I'm not sure what kind of sleeping accomodations you will have for 60Euros. Our fares (1 adult and 1 youth) combined were a bit more than $400--it was much more expensive than flying, but then, the planes weren't flying in the middle of the night. I personally would not feel comfortable sleeping in a "train dorm" with strangers. However, 30 years ago I probably wouldn't have hesitated.

I did a night train twice. I can't remember the first route (I think it was either Zurich-Barcelona or Munich-Barcelona) but the second was Barcelona-Milan.

First class sleeper both times. That is the ONLY way I would have done the night train. I was by myself and felt much better that way. It was clean, but nothing luxurious, despite what "first class" my connote to people. Very small and two small bunk beds. Fortunately, I was alone, so the top bunk was stored away. I brought my own food so I just hunkered down for the night and had myself a fun little picnic.

If you're going to do it, I agree to do it once or twice max. Otherwise, definitely fly. I did not wake up refreshed either time..and I am a pretty heavy sleeper.

60E is a special for the first class couchette. So, I will be sharing with 3 other people.

I will be traveling by myself from Paris to Rome (where I will meet my friend who lives there). Since I will be by myself, I wouldn't have been able to have a cabin by myself or with people I knew (although, I suppose I could have bought the other berth in a 2 person sleeper, I would really rather not spend that much money).

I'm in my late 20s and I thought it might be a fun experience. However, I'm not a big fan of filth, so perhaps it won't be so fun. ;)

I didn't do RyanAir because people talk non-stop about the hassle of getting to Beauvais, etc. Also, the ryanair flight that I could take was leaving at 9:45 and arriving at 11:45 in Rome. I figured by the time I got to my friernd's place it would be at least 1am and I didn't want to make her wait up that late. However, I'm sure she would understand if it was a matter of safety and avoiding unsanitary conditions- if its really the way people are suggesting it is.

Hi,
yes, the Artesia 1st class cabin I was in was filthy, as I posted before, and I think I need to clarify what I mean by filthy, if it will help you in any way.
1. I am in my late 20s and I have visited Europe several times, so I am quite used to things being a bit older and sometimes not so spik-and-span. However, the cabin I was in had very, and I mean very, dirty seats. Our companions' seats were dirty as well. I peeked in the next cabin but didn't look that much better. What do I mean by dirty? Stained, looking 20+ years old, unidentifiable black spots in a few places.
Having said that, however, the rest of the cabin was swept and the toilets were quite clean and had enough toilet paper, even late through the night.

The halls were all right. Not sparking, but not as bad as some Eastern European trains. So really, other than the stained upholstery, my partner and I tolerated the Artesia.
Would we travel it again? OF course.

Personally, I wouldn't fly Ryanair over using a train ticket already bought. With the hassle of the awkward time travel, getting to the airport, etc, you will probably feel more comfortable on the train anyway. Just my opinion.

Don't let what I said previously stop you from taking the Artesia. You might, as some suggest, end up in a newer train. But you can also make the best of it, and yes, it will be an adventure.
Again, don't let it stop you. I would still take the overnight train. Just not that often!!!!

The train that was said to be filthy turns out to have had some stains on seats and floors. It is true that this can happen if you are in old stock, but it is not true of all 4-berth couchette compartments, is rare in 2-berth sleepers with bathrooms at ends of corridors, and is not true at all of two-berth compartments with a shower and bathroom en suite. So if I were in the honeymoon couple I would ask my booking agent to quote me the costs of grading up to a two-berth sleeper. That way you have more likelihood of newer cars so no stains, and you have nobody keeping lights on, or waking early: you set your own times. In practice the stains may be hard to find, as most of the time the beds are made up, with crisp white linen.

There are a detailed and able survey of rail travel, country by country at http://www.seat61.com/, and a note on getting the best from sleepers and couchettes at http://www.geocities.com/rexbickers/...ghttrains.htm/.

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In the late 90s, we took a night train (first class) from Madrid to Barcelona. The cabin was small and had two bunk beds and its own bathroom. It was not pretty at all but was clean. I have taken night trains in non-European countries a while back and I was surprised how small this cabin was!!! We were short of time and the night train saved us some time. I think sleeping in a hotel bed is definitely more comfortable. But night train has its own advantages.

There are somke night services that actually offer a 1st Class compartment with a true double bed..the so-called "matrimonial" compartment.

Re-read some of the responses above: how many of these people have ACTUALLY taken a night train? How many of them decided they had to "svae a lot of money" and travel like a bunch of dormitory rats and then wondered why they call it "second class"???

If this is the Orient Express described here: http://www.orient-express.com/web/oe/c3a_trains.jsp

I don't see that you have much to worry about.

I recall your itinerary, and still wish you would leave out Lucerne in favour of Salzburg and even maybe a night in Villach or Klagenfurt en route to Venice from Vienna. (There are gorgeous mountain lakes near Salzburg, BTW). It would be far better to return to Europe for Lucerne and make it the centrepiece of the trip, instead of turning 2 10-hour long train trips to accomodate it! One long train journey, even if on the luxurious Orient Express, is enough for one trip, since when all's said and done, it's still just a train.

My wife and I took a night train from Vienna to Venice in 1988 (when I was in my early forties and wife was in her late thirties) to maximize our daylight time in each of those cities (4 days in Vienna and 3 days in Venice). It was a 6-berth couchette. We were the first in our "room" and grabbed the two lower bunks, slipped into "night" clothes, and scampered into bed. Shortly thereafter, two young (maybe in their 30s) and not so tiny women came into the couchette, disrobed to their pantyhose and climbed up the ladders to their beds and started sawing logs - although we tried to be courteous, I have to admit we were stifling our guffaws (shows how parochial we are).

The next morning we met our couchette-mates and tried carrying on a conversation. They were teachers from Vienna on holiday to Venice. They were charming, funny, and delightful.

Although it's sometimes nice to live large (and elegant), sometimes it's even better to live with the rest of the world - in retrospect we wouldn't change our experience on the night train from Vienna to Venice for all the tea in China!

We took a day-train from Venice to Salzburg after our Venice sojourn, and the sights from the train were incredible. Maybe the answer is to do a little bit of everything.

Have fun on your honeymoon! All kinds of fun :)

We took a night train last year from Vienna to Florence and it was perfectly fine. We actually really enjoyed ourselves. Sure, the cabin was small (we had a double sleeper cabin) but for one night it was doable and helped make the most out of our vacation days. The cabin was clean and cozy and the person manning our train car was very friendly. The ride was actually quite beautiful. We were there in early March and the ride through the mountains about an hour outside of Vienna were magical. We turned out our cabin lights and just watched the scenery go by.

The only bad thing about the night train was waking up in Florence at 6:00 a.m. disoriented and totally groggy (we didn't get woken up until like 10 minutes before we had to be off the train).

Overall it wasn't bad at all and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Tracy

I guess I am more provincial than I realized. What is "sawing logs"? OR is it unmentionable?

Intrepid,

regarding the comment on traveling 2nd class like "dormitory rats":

1. Even in first class the rooms are small, and it was 1st class we took, by the way!

2. the time when I've most felt like a "dormitory rat" was flying a cheap dog-and-pony charter airline
(not that there's anything wrong with that.)

We did the Artesia night train from Venice to Paris last year - a 4 person couchette.

It was perfectly fine - the cabin was clean and neat.

I slept relatively well, and I'm a pretty light sleeper. Storage space for the suitcases is tight, but we were able to make it work.

I wouldn't hesitate to take a night train again.

I am in my early 50's - maybe I am crazy but I like to take a nite train. The first two times was when I travelled with my daughters and their school groups - on those trips we were in the six person couchettes but all people sleeping there were part of our group. Yes, its tight but I managed to sleep all right. Then a couple years ago my daughter and I traveling independently took the train from Rome to Paris - we had a T-3 for the two of us. Now I don't think I would book us into a six person sleeper but this summer we are planning to go from Rome to Monteux on a nite train. It is my understanding that at least the T-3's are same sex - I don't think that applies to the the six person compartments. But I enjoy the experience, sleep fairly well (I usually take on a bag of snacks and some wine)and am ready to explore a new city when we get there in the morning. They do seem expensive tho - I just keep reminding myself its for the trip AND a hotel room for a nite.

When I was (much) younger I used to take the Madrid/Paris night train aaall the time. I had a ball, but then again, I was in college! Would I do it again? I guess if I had to, but considering the price of inter-European air travel, I would rather fly.

Depends on the type of sleeping accommodation you pay for - some night trains have deluxe doubles and these could be romantic. A friend of mine says his first child was conceived on the Nice-Venice night train!

Some people get a silk sleepsheet or sleeping bag liner that is very compact. They use this when traveling on night trains or anywhere that has suspect linens.

I like night trains very much, but only if you spring for the best private compartment available on the route. And I wouldn't do it more than once per week.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a 2 person couchette? The couchette is a cabin where 4-6 people share bunk bed style.

A private cabin for 2 people traveling together is known as 'wagon-lit' (or at least that is the term used in Switzerland).

Two VERY different things!

Suze, if you are referring to my post (not sure?), I was referring to the private 1st class sleeper cabin that we had. It had a door that locked, 2 beds, bunk-style, a small sink and luggage storage.

There were several people (HCart and kswl among them) who are using the term 2 person couchette.

Please correct me if I am wrong fellow posters, but I don't think this is an accurate term and could be confusing to people trying to make train reservations.

train:advantages:quite cheap , funny , quite an experience , typical , charming, arrives in city center , less hotel rooms to pay for.
what's not so great about it:verrryyy small , noisy , too hot or cold , could be dirty or clean , definitely not recommended for a honeymoon special night....if you don' t try the Orient-Express(2500$ , very preppy dressing mandatory)!
But nevertheless , there's this old charming delightful thing about trains , and you wake up in the morning , and wherever you're heading to , it's just there...Do it once or twice , then spend the extra money on a honeymoon bedroom ! You'll have memories , you'll have survived the European way of travelling , and you'll probably have met the weirdest , oddest and most exciting people you'll ever be given to meet! that's what train is all about.

I'm no expert on the various train sleeping arrangements, but I also think that couchette is a term reserved for multiple beds (four or more) and the cheapest accommodation.

A room with one-two beds is not a couchette on a train, but a sleeper or whatever that country calls it, and it costs more than the mass group thing, of course.

I haven't done this in a double, only a private single, but was assuming there would only be two single beds (bunk or not) on these trains, not a double bed as I've never seen any other kind of sleeping car. I imagine the Orient Express has double beds for that price, though. Well, maybe it's fun for one night (maybe not), but more than once, it might not start the marriage off well to be riding the rails in bunk beds at night.

I will admit there is the mystique of it as Sophie says and I found it pleasant to do when I woke up at dawn and could look out the window at the rural landscape, water buffalo, etc, and feel in another world. Now that was when I did it in Egypt and we were traveling south from Cairo and going through scenic rural areas, and it was also very different from places I'd seen before. That was a private single first-class sleeper and was okay for that one night, but not as comfortable as a hotel, of course.

If you're lucky (NOT!) some part of the rail personnel will be on strike (which is always likely in Italy/France)and you can spend one of your honeymoon nights travelling in a filthy, hot, no air conditioned first class sleeper cabin - as we had the most unfortunate opportunity to do! It was like a cattle car -with the reak of urine in our car and yes, oh yes, let's not forget the chamber pot they provided for us (that hadn't been cleaned out by the previous passenger).
We thought it would be fun and something to remember - it was something to remember all right but not in a good way. I would NEVER recommend it to anyone at anytime.
We went Florence to Paris...when we arrived in Paris they refunded all of the passengers money on the spot..it was really gross!
Fly. Fly. Fly.

kswl - Picture a log being sawed - can you hear it? "sawing logs" refers to snoring. ((s))

Thanks, Jed--I had no idea what that meant.

Suze, We tried to reserve a 2-person sleeper, and it was exactly as tcreath describes, with luggage storage and a small sink. However, the first class accomodations were gone by the time we booked the tickets, so Phil at Rail Europe suggested we purchase the third bed in a 3-pp couchette so we would have the privacy we wanted. That worked out fine, and the upper berth that we didn't use stayed in the wall. It gave my son lots of room in what for him was the upper bunk but should have been the middle.

I stand corrected. I did mean a 2 person sleeper.
I'm a big fan of night trains. I think they are an easy way to get from place to place without losing lots of time.
I have slept in 6 and 4 person bunks when I was younger and backpacking. I met some great, intersting, and helpful people but I also spent the night with some people I wish I hadn't. Not exactly the experience I would want on my honeymoon.
My husband and I have always found the 2 person sleepers to be clean and comfortable and worth the additional expense.
As far as filth, I've never encountered anything too disgusting or I wouldn't recommend this. However, I'm sure it exists. Luckily, I've only slept in clean rooms.

ewt,
Where did you get the Mini C for 60E ?
The best I can find is 70E. Also, is how is Mini C different from "DECOUVERTE A 4" ? From sncf site, I see both "Mini C" and "DECOUVERTE A 4". Both of them list as "First Class couchette".