Help with 12 day UK Itinerary!
 

Hello, First, let me apologize for my wordiness! I need some advice for a first time UK trip. My husband and I will be going to the first 2 weeks of June next year - that's 12 on the ground days and 12 nights. While I have a pretty good idea of what we'd like to see and do, I need some help setting up our itinerary to make travel plans make sense without a lot of back tracking or spending too much time crisscrossing around.

The biggest, and first decision I have to make is this - should we start or end our trip with London? On one hand it seems large and overwhelming, so maybe better at the end. On the other hand since we'll be tourists acclimating to our new surroundings perhaps London is a good place to start as we can jump right in with the throngs of other tourists before heading out to explore the countryside. We'll be flying out of Chicago and are thinking it makes more sense flying in and out of Manchester instead of London or possibly doing open jaw - which is why we need to decide where to place London on the itinerary as it will determine our flights as well as which leg of the trip we'll rent a car.

Here are some initial thoughts...

Flying into Manchester we could work our way south with a car visiting Chester, Powis castle, drive along Welsh border (we'd probably plan 2 days and 2 nights for this taking our time and visiting a few National Trust properties and whatever else catches our eye), then into the Cotswolds for 3 days & nights making a home base at a cottage or b&b and doing day trips around the area, after that drive south and visit Castle Combe, Lacock, Stourhead, Wells, Glastonbury and onto Salisbury (breaking this up over 2 days & nights). Then head to London to drop off the car, most likely at Heathrow, and spend last 5 days and nights in London before flying home.

We could also flip this completely around and fly into London and start there and then fly out of Manchester.

The other thing I feel we're really missing out on is York. to work this in we could fly into Manchester, train to York, spend a night there, train to London, do our 5 days, then drive and work our way West and fly back out of Manchester - but then I'm short a day because I've used a night in York and would have to cut out some portion of the Wells, Glastonbury, Salisbury, Stourhead portion of the trip etc. - which is fine - I'm just not sure where to make the cuts.

Also, I am aware that I do not have Stonehenge or Bath on this itinerary, neither are priorities on this trip.

Ok, first it is best to lay it out by nights. Second only go to each place once, so you are right go to London first or last.

Then you have to choose a bit about transport mech. It is very easy to use the train so you could land at Manchester train to York and sleep there the first night. York is a great city to get used to the British, relatively small, it still wants to sell you stuff but without the crush that is London.

You could then hire a car and do a tour of Yorkshire for a few days, dump the car and get back on the train say to Cambridge or the Cotswolds stopping at Oxford along the way. Cambridge is just an alternaive to Oxford for a nights stop and pretty buildings.

In the Cotswolds you can visit by local train/bus but more likely to use a car, pick it up in Oxford and dump it back say in Salisbury, (catching up with Wells, Glasto etc as you go) then back on the trains into London. Don't forget the best bit of the Cotwolds is hiking from hotel room to pub etc rather than join the throngs gawping at more beautiful stone walls. (you can easily do this with luggage moved ahead instead of say using a central base, but up to you)

This last bit would allow you to look at Bath and Stonehenge as well, but not priorities.

London is fine at the end, the down side is you suddenly get to see what the largest city in Europe looks like, after pottering around the much small places. Still you will be used to the beer and the tea by then. :-)

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I love the way that you are including some places that tourists don't get to until their 3rd or 4th trips to the UK, but honestly i think you're trying to squeeze in too much so that you would find yourselves doing more travelling than doing and seeing. I appreciate that the distances may not seem that far, and you would be travelling outside the main school hols [though the first week of June is a school half-term holiday in lots of the UK] but as Bilbo says, once you count nights, you'll begin to see who limited your time is.

Perhaps the first thing to decide is what you want to see in London, and whether you want to put it at the beginning or the end of your trip [I like the open jaw into London, out of Manchester idea, or vice versa]

So it could run something like this:

Day 1 - land London. ½ day sightseeing.
Day 2 - London
Day 3 - London [absolute minimum IMHO]
Day 4 - train to York. ½ day sightseeing.
Day 5 - York
Day 6 - pick up car, drive to Yorkshire Dales.
Day 7 - Yorkshire dales
Day 8 - Yorkshire Dales
Day 9 - drive to North Wales
Day 10 - North Wales
Day 11 - North wales
Day 12 - Chester
Day 13 - fly out of Manchester.

OR

Day 1 - land Manchester. ½ day sightseeing.
Day 2 - pick up car, drive to North Wales
Day 3 - North Wales
Day 4 - North Wales
Day 5 - Drive to Cotswolds
Day 6 - Cotswolds
Day 7 - Cotswolds
Day 8 - Drive to Wells/Bath/Salisbury [don't think you can do all of these]
Day 9 - Explore area
Day 10 - Drive to Bath/winchester/wherever - return car, train to London
Day 11 - London
Day 12 - London
Day 13 - fly out of London.

I know - we all have the same problem - too many places, not enough time.

If you do rail to York or return to London by rail from the West Country be sure to book tickets at www.nationalrail.co.uk and possibly get huge discounts over just showing up - check www.seat61.com for authoritative knowledge of booking you own discounted tickets online - for general info on trains (like 1st vs 2nd class, etc) I also like www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Check first class for discounted tickets too - may not be much more and in Britain IME the difference between classes is greater than Continental trains - 2ndcl kind of like a Greyhound bus all packed tight and first more spacious and free snacks on some long-distance trains (like London to York).

ann's itineraries really short change London! You need to start by deciding how much time you want to spend there - I would certainly want more.

Do you want Yorkshire Dales or Cotswolds?

I would be inclined to take the second itinerary, but cut the Wells etc. down to one night in Bath, train to London. At the very least, spend days 8 and 9 seeing Bath and Wells, and take the train from Bath to London early on Day 10.

Also, North Wales or Welsh Marches? I very much enjoyed basing in Worcester and then Conwy last year, but I had a lot more time. (Click on my name for the UK by public transport TR.)

>>but honestly i think you're trying to squeeze in too much so that you would find yourselves doing more travelling than doing and seeing. <<

Absolutely ditto.

12 days is not very long at all. You really would not have time for the Cotswolds, Yorkshire and the Welsh Borders. . . <u>Unless</u> you drop London entirely.

A loop from MAN through Yorkshire, then down through the Cotswolds, then the Welsh Borders/North Wales and back to MAN would be a very doable 12 nights. You'd want maybe 2 or 3 nights in the Dales, 2 nights in York, 1 or 2 nights for the Wells area, 3 nights in the Cotswolds, and a couple of nights on the Borders/N. Wales.

If London is a must -- then pick either Yorkshire or the Cotswolds and drop either the Welsh Borders or Somerset. You will want a minimum of 4 nights in London and 5 or 6 would be better. One option: MAN > Welsh Borders 2 nights > the Cotswolds 3 nights > Wells area 2 nights, drop car at LHR and last 5 nights in London.

ann's itineraries really short change London! You need to start by deciding how much time you want to spend there - I would certainly want more.>>

So would I [want more time in London, that is], thursdaysd. But i was trying to work out what was possible, as opposed to preferable. Clearly if the OP decides on more time in London, something else will have to go.

janisj - Your itinerary "MAN > Welsh Borders 2 nights > the Cotswolds 3 nights > Wells area 2 nights, drop car at LHR and last 5 nights in London." is exactly what I have planned right now...

"Flying into Manchester we could work our way south with a car visiting Chester, Powis castle, drive along Welsh border (we'd probably plan 2 days and 2 nights for this taking our time and visiting a few National Trust properties and whatever else catches our eye), then into the Cotswolds for 3 days & nights making a home base at a cottage or b&b and doing day trips around the area, after that drive south and visit Castle Combe, Lacock, Stourhead, Wells, Glastonbury and onto Salisbury (breaking this up over 2 days & nights). Then head to London to drop off the car, most likely at Heathrow, and spend last 5 days and nights in London before flying home. "

...so that makes me think that it's doable then and that I should I just stick with this and forget trying to work in York?

I guess my two big questions still are:

1.Should I start or end with London? Is there a plus or disadvantage to this in terms of recovering from jet lag, getting acclimated, etc?

2. If I want to work in York I realize I can not also do Wells, Salisbury, etc. so I know I will be cutting that portion - but should I? Is York/Yorkshire going to be a more enjoyable way to spend a few days? I've hear from a few people that Chester is in some ways similar and will give you similar experience to York (minus the Minster).

Some things are pretty much set in stone for us - 5 nights in London, 3 nights in the Cotswolds - I am pretty firm on that. I just need to know the most enjoyable and commonsensicle in terms of our itinerary, that we fill in the other 4 nights. If it helps our interest include castles, ruins, history, old cemetaries, gardens, a bit of walking, and consuming as many cream teas and British chocolates, cheeses, etc. as possible.

Yorkshire (I live here) is a much bigger place with a lot of ruined abbeys, castles and large urban areas some with world class art galleries.

Cotswolds (I'll be there in a few days) is more small towns in gently rolling countryside so very different place


Given your interests Yorkshire is the place, but because of its size you needed to be focused on what you want to see.

I was in Chester last year, haven't been to York in a while, but I suppose it could substitute. It was very crowded when I was there, but no doubt York is very crowded now too.

Chester cathedral is certainly no substitute for York Minster, but Wells plus Bath could be. I would keep Bath because of the baths.

Provided you don't drive the day you arrive I don't know that it matters which way round you go, although now I think about it the airport taxes are likely to be higher flying out of LHR.

Bath to me is the fairest looking town as a whole in England- a visual feast just to see if only passing thru.

I would start in London and then do your scenic drive. This allows you to recover from jetlag and sleepiness after a long overnight flight. Before you start driving on the other side of the street.

I loved Chester. It feels smaller than York, a nicely encompassable town -- encompassed by a wall. There were tourists but I thought there were Brits, not foreigners. We had 3 meals in memorable locations: one in the old refectory of the Abbey, one in an old chapel half a story below the current ground level, and one in a pub located in the Great Room of town house.

I know you don't need any additional destinations. But it seems a shame to pass so close to Conwy and its castle, not to speak of Caernarvon. Sorry, sorry....

>>1.Should I start or end with London? Is there a plus or disadvantage to this in terms of recovering from jet lag, getting acclimated, etc? <<

6 of 1/half dozen of the other. The main thing is you don't want to be driving much or at all on your arrival day. MAN to Chester is only about 30 miles so that would be OK-ish to drive.

>>2. If I want to work in York I realize I can not also do Wells, Salisbury, etc. so I know I will be cutting that portion - but should I? Is York/Yorkshire going to be a more enjoyable way to spend a few days? I've hear from a few people that Chester is in some ways similar and will give you similar experience to York (minus the Minster).<<

I like Chester a lot, but I LOVE York/Yorkshire. Both Chester and York will be crowded but York (city) more so. If you want to explore Yorkshire - then what Id do is take the train from MAN to York and stay there 2 nights car-les, then collect a car and spend a couple of days/nights in the Dales > the Cotswolds 3 nights > drop the car at LHR and head into London for 5 nights. This would be my 'druthers' for 12 nights.

The route down through eastern Wales/the Cotswolds/Somerset then London would be good too. It might be flip a coin time.


>>Bath to me is the fairest looking town as a whole in England- a visual feast just to see if only passing thru.<<

It is VERY difficult to 'pass through' Bath. The driving and parking is a zoo, and using the recommended Park & Ride lots outside of town mean a quick peek at Bath is next to impossible. One needs devote an entire day -- or skip the hassle.

Just a few other comments

1) do not drive Manchester to York. I used to do it daily and it is not a nice motorway.
2) do take the train Manchester to York, very relaxing after a long flight and the coffee at the Manchester airport station is very good.

Bath is a pain to park in. I've been going to the town over the last 40 years and it gets worse and worse. If you do, and you pay for a car park you need at least a 4 hours ticket just to scrape the surface (so at least 4 hours), and restaurants fill up fast.

Cathedrals; for me Salisbury cathedral is the most sublime (my mother lived there for a few years), York is the most bold and dominating (my mother in law lived there for a few years), Wells is very pretty (my sister lived... you get the picture)

" There were tourists but I thought there were Brits, not foreigners. "

A crowd is a crowd. At least the Chester one was without horrible ego-sticks. In fact, I saw very few if any of them on my trip to Dorset and the Welsh Marches, maybe that is a UK vs. foreign tourist distinction?

I thought we were suggesting at least one night in Bath? I would drop the car there and train to London.

It would be tougher to squeeze in Bath if they want 5 nights in London. Plus the OP says >>Also, I am aware that I do not have Stonehenge or Bath on this itinerary, <u>neither are priorities on this trip</u>.<<

A lot of people are pushing Bath - which is a wonderful place -- but if it is not a priority, it does add the hassle factor. If Bath was a priority, then there would be ways to include it. If it isn't - then avoid the crowds/hassle.

Re: bath: - Good catch janisj - I had forgotten that.

" MAN to Chester is only about 30 miles so that would be OK-ish to drive."

Not really - a micro-sleep can hit any time. However, also unnecessary. Take a direct train from Manchester Airport to Chester (one direct train an hour). For that matter, change in Chester for Conwy - two nights in Conwy, train to Chester for one night (don't think it's worth more), pick up car.

For my visit to Conwy and Chester start here (links at the top of the page):

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...stle-and-more/

I would make Bath a priority but no that is not the case so yes let's drop Bath mentions.

Wow, thank you for so many wonderful suggestions! Where to begin…

York/Yorkshire: I have read a bit on the area and we’d probably try to keep any exploring to an area roughly between Helmsley, Masham and Pateley bridge - hopefully taking in Fountains Abbey too along the way - as this seems somewhat doable.

Bath:It’s not that I have no interest in Bath - I like the ties to Jane Austen and the regency area, I’d want to take in the fashion museum, the baths, etc. - However, my husband has zero interest in any of this. So, I’d feel rushed through it, he’d be grumbling, and I couldn’t really properly do it. Since it seems congested and crowded I don’t think I could do a quick pop in to Bath and even if I did get a quick slapdash sort of visit, there’s be no real point other than to check it off the list and say that I’d been there.

Rick Steve’s recommends beginning your UK trip in Bath by training there directly upon landing. We could follow this advice and spend our first day and night here before picking up a car and heading into the Cotswolds - but that’s the only way we could tie in Bath that makes sense really as we would skip the hassle of driving/parking this way.

Tourists: Since we, ourselves will be tourists, I guess I shouldn’t bad mouth them...but. We are considerate, non selfie stick carrying types and really don’t want to be part of the mad crush. I realize we’ll have to deal with them throughout the trip, but would like to have a few more off the beaten path experiences. This is why I thought the Marches area would be a nice reprieve - many travel books just skip right over it entirely so I feel we may have more of the place to ourselves.

Transportation: I’ve been using thetrainline.com website to get an idea of tickets/routes and prices a few months out. It seems to offer tickets further out in advance than the National Rail or Virgin sites which also makes them cheaper if you book ahead, which I plan to do.

Hi, litchickmi. I've been to England around a dozen times now, and I have always liked ending my vacation in London. London is just easier/more relaxing IMO, then managing the rental car/public transportation/hikes/B&Bs of the less-populated areas. The countryside is no less wonderful, but it takes more mental power than the city, so I like to get the more "strenuous" stuff done when my energy is at its highest.

And leaving London for home, there's always that melancholy that you haven't seen all there is to see in the city, but it's softened a bit by the fact that you'll be going home and sleeping in your own bed after a long vacation. When I've done London first, I've felt a bit more regret thinking I'd like to linger longer in the city.

As for York, I know others like it, but I didn't find the city itself all that charming. Have never felt a need to return. I loved the countryside, ruins and stately houses outside the city, but as you'll have the Cotswolds, you'll get lots of natural beauty, and enough history elsewhere.

On your jet lag day in Manchester, I really don't recommend driving in your rental car. I did this once, and it would have been safer and much less stressful on a good night's rest. I was a decade younger then, too, but it was still not safe, and not the most pleasant way to start a vacation.

An idea would be to stay a night in the Man airport (I know, I know... hear me out), but on your first day, take the bus (from the airport--it's so easy) to Quarry Bank Mill. If it's a nice day, you'll get a good walk in the sunshine, get a lot of history, and tea and scones in their cafe, and a ride back to the airport for you to get your maps and things sorted for the drive south the next morning. I thought Quarry Bank was a fantastic National Trust property. Wanting to hit the ground running and make the most of your vacation time is understandable, but there's something to be said for easing in to a holiday, and letting your body and brain acclimate so you can get the most out of your precious time in England.

Just an idea. I envy you the vacation! Sounds wonderful. Post back with more specific questions about locales as your itinerary firms up. The fodorites have given me lots of excellent advice through the years.

Rick Steve’s recommends beginning your UK trip in Bath by training there directly upon landing. We could follow this advice and spend our first day and night here before picking up a car and heading into the Cotswolds - but that’s the only way we could tie in Bath that makes sense really as we would skip the hassle of driving/parking this way. >>

alternatively get the bus from LHR to Oxford - if as you say your DH has no interest in Bath, you're giving yourselves quite a bit of extra driving just for one night there. Oxford is much closer to where you want to be, and it takes about 90 mins from the Heathrow central bus station:

https://airline.oxfordbus.co.uk/time...rline-heathrow

>>Rick Steve’s recommends beginning your UK trip in Bath by training there directly upon landing.<<

VERY first thing to do is discard your Rick Steves guide to the UK. He is good, very good, or OK for many other places. But he really doesn't like the UK (in comparison to say Italy - I've met the man and that came out of his own mouth) and some of the suggestions he makes re the UK are head scratchers. Like he blithely recommends "Take a train from LHR to Bath" -- not explaining there <i>is no train from LHR to Bath</u> It is either a train east in to London and then a train west to Bath, or a schlep on a coach to Reading and a train to Bath. If one DOES want to go directly to Bath on arrival -- there is an express coach from the central bus station right into central Bath. No changes, no schlepping.

Re the Yorkshire Dales and the Cotswolds -- they are entirely different experiences. The Cotswolds are mostly gentle scenery, lovely 'chocolate tin' villages, some amazing 'Wool Churches' and great walks. The Dales are much more wild, with narrower roads (yes really ;) ) fewer villages, amazing ecclesiastic ruins.

I would not substitute one for the other.

Re York -- it can get really overrun with visitors -- but the Minster, the Shambles (NOT on a weekend -- WAY too crowded), one of the best railroad museums in the world, and the York Castle Museum (one of the best in the country) - I'd give the city at least 1.5 days

"Rick Steve’s recommends beginning your UK trip in Bath by training there directly upon landing."

You can't train there "directly". Maybe he says to take the National Express coach? That is direct, although there is only one every two hours.

I love Oxford, but it was packed when I was there last year in August. Lot of day trippers, though. Note that in the university vacations you can stay in the colleges - see http://www.universityrooms.com/

" I thought the Marches area would be a nice reprieve" - yes. I did not feel that Gloucester, Worcester or Hereford were at all crowded. Shrewsbury and Conwy were busy and Chester was packed.

Highly recommend Worcester:

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...-by-worcester/

>>You can't train there "directly". Maybe he says to take the National Express coach? <<

Nope -- He actually advises 'Take a train from Heathrow to Bath'. That is just lazy research and shows he's never done it himself.

(Sorry about all the <i>italics</i> in my earlier post . . .)

@janis - looks like we were posting at the same time. If only Preview still worked....

"Rick Steve’s recommends beginning your UK trip in Bath by training there directly upon landing."

Nope -- He actually advises 'Take a train from Heathrow to Bath'. That is just lazy research and shows he's never done it himself.?

He does not say direct - even though those with high dudgeon to prove Rick wrong what he says is perfectly possible - Heathrow to Paddington in 20 minutes then about 90 minutes once on a train to Bath.

Or take Heathrow Connect to some station on Paddington-Reading line and go to Reading to catch trains to Bath - but going to Paddington and back out may be better.

Again training there directly upon landing means I am sure -right away upon landing and not direct.

>>He does not say direct - <<

In the first edition he actually did say to take a train from Heathrow to Bath (and also said it in one of his Rick Steves Europe PBS shows)

I would <i>hope</i> he had revised latter editions. Just shows he can learn ;)

Again janis you can "take a train from Heathrow to Bath" -he did not say direct as much as you want to have it sound.

You can take a train from London to Amsterdam you know, via Brussels, etc.

He DID in the first few editions of the book. But drop it OK -- A lot of RS advice for the UK is pants (look it up). Let's not derail yet another thread . . .

Well, I was afraid that bring up RS may not be the best, he seems pretty divisive when mentioned on other threads I've read through. Anyways, as I've harped on students to always cite sources, here it is as written in my 2005 edition "...consider a gentler smaller-town start in Bath, and visit London at the end of your trip. You'll be more rested and ready to tackle Britain's greatest city. Heathrow Airport has direct connections to Bath and other cities." However, his day to day itinerary has arriving in London then busing to Bath recommended so maybe his advice is indeed pants. Anyways, moving on with no more RS references...

Chgogal, Thank you for the options and your experiences. We wave a NT pass so I'd like to make good use of it, so I'm looking for good suggestions of which properties are worth visiting. We could easily take the train and pick up a car in Chester which seems like it might be best. It doesn't seem to bad of a drive, but I'd really not like to risk it being our first time left side driving and sleep deprived.

annhig, I have thought of beginning in Oxford because of it's proximity to the Cotswold's and maybe a stop by the Pitt Rivers or Ashmolean.It seems like a better fit for us maybe than Bath.

Janisj, you mentioned narrow roads in the Dales which brings up another question - is one part our trip better to get a feel for the roads the first few days? I assume Yorkshire to be less congested, but maybe that won't necessarily mean easier driving? The Dales area is really appealing to me, but it seems best for meandering and I'm just not sure how much time we'll have to do it justice - not enough I'm thinking...ugh, tough choices!

If going to Oggsford and driving I'd suggest hitting Blenheim Palace - Churchill's palatial family's ancestral home and one of the nicest palaces and surrounding parks I've seen - en route to Cotswolds.

I live in the Yorkshire Dales (Wensleydale a few miles from Masham) and whilst there are indeed narrow lanes (as there are in many other areas of the country) you really shouldn't let this put you off if the area attracts you.
The Dales road network also caters for caravans, lorries, school buses, tractors and all manner of other large vehicles - so please don't envisage nothing but tiny lanes with sheep wandering over them. It's just not true!
Fountains Abbey for instance (just outside the National Park) is a World Heritage Site and you can imagine the amount of visitors it receives each year - impossible if it was down a narrow lane! Access is easy and straightforward.
If you DO decide on the Dales (and you mention Helmsley which isn't in that area) then I'd be happy to assist with an itinerary to make the most out of a short stay in the area.
Early June is a lovely time to visit by the way.

Thursdaysd, I was able to browse through your blog a bit, great pictures and details!

Morgana, maybe you would be able to advise on this. The main canundrum with York/Yorkshire - and the reason I think I'm having difficulty easily incorporating it is that it doesn't tie in easily with the Cotswold area in terms of transportation. We can easily train from Manchester to York or London to York, which would work well if we just did York itself then moved on. However, if we want to explore the Dales at all, that means renting a car. If we picked up our car in York in order to see any of the Yorkshire countryside the drive to either Chester/ the Marches or the Cotswolds seems pretty uneventful, longish, unscenic, and would take up a good portion of one of our days without really seeing or doing much. Unless there is a nice scenic drive between York and anpther area we're cosidering that I should consider? I'm not sure if a one day rental makes much sense, we could pick up in the morning and drive around for one day dropping the car back off in York, then taking the train and moving on that way. Any thoughts on how to make this work? I have seen tours that do very full day trips all over the Dales - Mountain Goat, Grand Yorkshire, etc. they seem kind of pricey and I'm not sure about the whole tour group experience, but it may be the easiest thing.

The reason I mention Helmsley is it's proximity to Rievaulx and it looks like a nice town. Because of time we could just visit Fountains, as it's closer to the actual Dales and is NT property.

OK -- not Morgana but . . . If it was me, I;d train from MAN to York, spend a couple of days (really 1.5 days) car-less, collect a car and explore the Dales for 2 or 3 days. The roads are mostly narrow but - if you can work out your itinerary so the Dales days are not on a weekend - they will not be crowded.

Then bit the bullet and drive quick and dirty straight to the Cotswolds. There are lots of areas you could divert through but I wouldn't to maximize your time in the Cotswolds. OR - you could drive from the Dales to Warwick/Stratford-upon-Avon which are a good stop w/ lots to see and are just north of the Cotswolds.

From say Harrogate to Chipping Campden would be a 3.5 or 4 hour drive. Diverting through Warwick/Stratford would add barely 10 miles. So if you wanted to take a morning to get to the Cotswolds ASAP just drive it straight through. Or -- 2 hours for Warwick/the Castle, and a couple of hours in Stratford would still have you in the Cotswolds well before dinner time.

Oh - Meant to add -- I would NOT bother w/ a one or even 2-day rental. You will definitely want a car in the Cotswolds too, so just rent in York and keep the car for the drive south.

Re Helmsley -- if you also wanted to explore the Moors area you'd need to add another day at least.

Can't disagree with Janis and her suggested plan for Yorkshire.
Definitely no car needed in York itself. Then I'd pick one up at the end of my York stay and drive to the Dales where I'd stay for a couple of nights.
Masham would work well - the road into Wensleydale isn't narrow at this point and is easy to drive on (I do it most days!).
Masham has a good website plus there's a small Tourist Office in town with a good selection of maps/leaflets and (free!) advice if you should need it.
http://www.visitmasham.com/
Millgate B&B in the centre of Masham is forever winning awards.
The town has 2 breweries you can visit too (Black Sheep and Theakstons).
https://www.blacksheepbrewery.com/
Masham is pronounced Mass'um and not like mashed potatoes!
A 2 day itinerary for the Dales could be -
Day 1 - Ripon and Fountains Abbey/Studley Royal Water Gardens. Allow plenty of time for this UNESCO site as the Estate is huge and includes the deer park, Fountains Hall etc as well as the Abbey and Water Gardens
Day 2 - a drive in the opposite direction deeper into Wensleydale - maybe going as far as Hawes and Askrigg.
A few miles outside Masham you will drive right past Jervaulx Abbey which could be the 'replacement' in your itinerary for Rievaulx.
Jervaulx is beautiful, independently owned and well worth an hour to explore. Free to enter but honesty box in the car park.
http://www.jervaulxabbey.com/
Middleham, further 'up Dale' as it is known has a ruined castle which was the childhood home of Richard the Third. You can visit, or just admire from the outside.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/v...dleham-castle/
The Wensleydale Heifer at West Witton does excellent food. Or you could stay there!
http://www.wensleydaleheifer.co.uk/
If you like waterfalls you could stop by Aysgarth. And a short detour would take you to Bolton Castle.
http://www.boltoncastle.co.uk/
Loads to see and do - and just stop and admire the scenery of course.
Hope this helps your research.

Janis - meant to mention to you, the Yorke Arms is up for sale!! Frances Atkins is moving on. We are going next week for dinner as we aren't sure how many more times we'll get to do so.
Got a couple of million spare?
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...-75m-1-8604772

>>the Yorke Arms is up for sale<<

Oh, wow! A chance for an up and coming chef to take over -- but very big shoes to fill. I'll be interested to see what happens. Enjoy your dinner.

litchickmi: Rievaulx is lovely but I don't know that I would add time to squeeze it in or skip the Dales. There is PLENTY to fill several days in the Dales.

You can also take the train from Oxford to York. Yorkshire is a favorite and Morgana has given you some great suggestions.

I really enjoyed basing in Harrogate - a kind of spa town -great for going to Bronte country - Haworth and adjacent moors - nice walks from Haworth and also to Fountains Abbey -yes awesome - and Studley Royal - the vast park surrounding it.