Two quick questions came to me going over some of these posts.

1.) May half term break was mentioned and I just saw that it runs until June 6. If we push back by one week we'd arrive on the 9th as opposed to the 3rd of June...will this make that big of difference in terms of crowds, driving, transportation, etc? We were initially going as early as possible (my school lets out for summer June 1st) to avoid as much summer tourism as possible. We will be flying out on a Saturday evening and arriving in the early Sunday a.m. no matter which dates we choose.

2.) Would it be possible, though maybe not ideal, to do a small part of the Dales in say 1.5 days and one overnight between Chester and York? Picking up our car and leaving York in the morning then heading to Fountains Abbey, from there to Pateley Bridge, then Grassington stopping somewhere there for an overnight before heading on to Chester the next morning? I realize this way takes longer than going from York to Chester directly, but we could atleast get a bit of time in the area. Or is it not worth it to go through so briefly?

1) British schools (and most of the Continent) don't let out for the summer until early to mid July so June (after half term in early) is generally shoulder season and less crowded than during the Bank Holidays in May/Half term and later in the summer. It is a great time to visit.

2) If you are going to Yorkshire/the Dales - I would give up on Chester. Just too much to-ing and fro-ing on slow roads. Bite the bullet and pick either Chester/Wales the west side - or - York/Yorkshire/the east side

meant to say >>early to mid July or later<<

Half term week for 2018 in North Yorkshire is w/c Monday 28th May. They will be back at school on Monday 4th June, so no need to change your original dates.
Agree (again) with Janis to pick either Chester/Wales or York/Yorkshire.
Fountains Abbey is terrific but it isn't in the Dales and nor will it give you a taste of the Dales landscape and scenery which is what I thought you were after. You really do need at least a couple of days up here rather than flitting from one place to another every night.

Yes, I think that you are both correct. The more I thought about it after posting that yesterday, the more I realized I'm just trying to cram in too much. I guess I'll go over it with the hubs and focus on one area this trip - the Marches or Yorkshire. I guess I just need to look at the positive part of giving up one area - it gives me an entire other trip to plan and look forward to in the next few years!

After giving it much thought, we've decided to put off Yorkshire for a later trip. There's just so much we want to see in that area that we really need more time to do it justice. Combining that area with Northumberland and Edinburgh will make a nice streamlined journey in a year or two. So for this coming trip I have a few more focused questions now, mostly pertaining to North Wales and the Marches. Itinerary is as follows...

Nights 1 - 5 London

Day 6 - morning train to Chester, spend the day site seeing in Chester, late afternoon pick up rental car and drive to Conwy, overnight in Conwy

Day 7 - Conwy Castle, Bodnant Gardens, overnight - Conwy again?

Day 8 - Betws y Coed, Chirk Castle, Powis Castle, overnight - ??

Days/Nights 9 - 12 Cotswolds

Day 13 - Fly home

So a few questions -

Day 7 - should we spend a second night in Conwy or just head south to Betws y coed that same day? I don't want to be rushed and cram stuff in, but it's very hard to gauge travel times and to really know how much time we need to explore. I figure 2 hours each at Conwy Castle and Bodnant would be enough?

Day 8 - Should we stop somewhere this night (Ludlow perhaps?) to break things up or just try and push on to the Cotswolds?

A question on lodging - We will obviously book London and the Cotswolds ahead of time, but could we safely not book our nights in Wales ahead of time to just see where the day takes us? That way if we want to explore somewhere longer or else move on, we're not tied to a specific stopping point that day. These will be weekend nights in early June if that makes a difference.

Finally, we can fly out of Birmingham instead of London for about $50 more per ticket. Would it be easier to drive into and fly out of Birmingham airport from the Cotswolds than London? This will be around 8 a.m. on a Friday morning.

Would it be easier to drive into and fly out of Birmingham airport from the Cotswolds than London? This will be around 8 a.m. on a Friday morning.
Yes

Day 7 - the castle won't take two hours, but if you want to walk all of the walls that adds time. Bodnant gardens are huge, I spent several hours there including lunch.

There is more to see in Conwy and the surrounding area: Two historic houses in Conwy itself. Carnarfon castle and Beaumaris castle to the west. Another historic house, Plas Newydd, on Anglesey. Llandudno and the Great Orme.

I would spend a second night just to avoid a one-nighter, but you may not mind them.

Here are the links to my blog posts on Conwy and the area:

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...stle-and-more/
https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...he-great-orme/

I'd stay two nights in Conwy. I'd also drive straight through to the Cotswolds. Not perfect - no. But you will want as much time as possible in the Cotswolds.

Re LHR or Birmingham. . . . Probably B'ham but it does partly depend on where exactly you are staying and how early in the AM the flight is. In the southern Cotswolds LHR could be better. Though the traffic can be a bear.

Meant to add . . . Yorkshire/Durham/Northumberland/the Borders and Edinburgh would be a wonderful trip. You will want about two weeks for that.

Between Yokshure and Durham is Berwick/Upon/Tweed- a unique fortress town with old fortifications still around.

http://www.visitnorthumberland.com/berwick-upon-tweed

worth a short few-hour stop and can follow the Tweed River west to the Borders Abbeys district.

I don't love the idea of one night stays, but since we're doing longer stays in London and the Cotswolds, we'd be willing to do it for a few nights if it meant covering more during the middle leg of our trip. I have heard that the driving time through Wales often takes longer than many route planning tools tell you, so I wasn't sure if Conwy to Cotswolds via Betws y Coed, Chirk and Powis would be doable in one day. That's also why I was wondering about just not booking lodgings so we can have some flexibility.

We plan on staying in the northern Cotswolds as most of the houses/gardens we want to see - Hidcote, Charlecote Park and Snowshill are concentrated that way. We've checked on a few self catering cottages - one near Blockley and another by the Oddingtons.

Thank you for all of your advice!

>>Between Yokshure and Durham is Berwick/Upon/Tweed<<

Look at a map Pal . . .

litchickmi: I'd just suck it up and drive straight through from Wales to the Cotswolds in one go. One huge issue is you.

Blockley is certainly 'north-ish', but Upper and Lower Oddington aren't. They are just outside Stow-on-the-Wold.

According to theaa.com (British version of AAA) Conwy to Blockley via Betws-y-Coed, Chirk and Powis would be four and a half hours with no stops. Dropping Powis saves 40 minutes. Get stuck behind a tractor or a truck and it could take a good bit longer.

Conwy to Blockley direct is 3hrs 18min, much of it on motorways, although I don't know what it's like getting round Birmingham these days.

>>Bath to me is the fairest looking town as a whole in England- a visual feast just to see if only passing thru.<<

It is VERY difficult to 'pass through' Bath.>

Passing thru to me means stopping only for a few hours or so - not a drive by! Though if you drive via the hills above Bath it is from there a real visual feast.

>>Between Yokshure and Durham is Berwick/Upon/Tweed<<

Look at a map Pal . . .>

Yes got me there - for some reason I forgot Berwick-on-Tweed was far north but if it's close to Borders Abbey must be. Well it was generations ago it seems I were there but anyway I found it an interesting off-beaten-path busy regional town to stay in -nice coastal views.

>>Passing thru to me means stopping only for a few hours or so - not a drive by! <<


That was my point - it can take an hour to drive in to Bath from the outskirts (and longer to find a parking space) and an hour to drive out. So it would take a full day to see much of anything. One can't easily 'pass through' Bath. But yes, back in the 70's when you were there there was much less traffic.

But yes, back in the 70's when you were there there was much less traffic.>

It was really the early 40s! Well I were there in 2009.

Here is a YouTube video of a drive into Bath - traffic seems rather calm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i3gkt76RRs

note the subtitle "really peaceful city Bath".

Anyway point is don't drive by Bath but pass through it - even if it takes an hour in and out at least you have time to see why many say Bath is England's most beautiful city as a whole.

Or so park at a station down the train line near Bath and commute in.

These are more like it ;) (all in Bath)

http://i4.bathchronicle.co.uk/incomi.../traffic-1.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images...road_010_v3.JP

http://l450v.alamy.com/450v/dh4c47/a...fic-dh4c47.jpg

>)

Train in does make sense -- but that will add other to-ing and fro-ing.

oops - sorry about the second one. Vaporized somehow. . . .

Thursdays - Yes, I was using AA as well as I've heard it's more accurate than google maps; I came up with the same time of 4.5 hours. If we spend 2 hours at each Chirk and Powis that would make a longish day, but possible. We'd most likely arrive in the early evening at our lodging. I looked through your Welsh Marches trip highlights on your blog - did you visit either Powis or Chirk on that trip? If so do you have a recommendation if we need to drop one for time constraints?

Sorry, didn't even think about them. I would have liked to make it to Portmerion, but the timetables didn't work. It's been many years since I visited Betws-y-Coed.

Train in does make sense -- but that will add other to-ing and fro-ing>

No matter how if near Bath don't miss spending at least a half day there-so exceptional.

Yes that is a bane of British cities with ancient road patterns - many are such a pain to get into and out of.