Four country Europe trip- need suggestions and ideas
 

Hi I am planning to a 18day Europe trip mainly to UK( London main attractions, Warwick Castle, Stratford upon Avon and oxford university tour), France (Paris,Loire Valley.), Swiss (Bern, Zermatt, Lucerne, Zurich) and Italy (Milan, Venice, Florence and Rome). My plan is to fly from US to London spend 3-4 days visit important places, spend 3-4 days in paris and surroundings, 5 days in Zurich and surroundings and 5 days in Italy and fly out of Rome back to US. need help planning this trip. is plan i am putting together is good as regards to optimizing my time while visiting few important places. this is my first trip to europe. also wanted to know is it a good idea and less expensive by doing on my own vs going with a tour company like Taj or Star tours? we are group of four adults. please advise and give me some money saving tips as regards to accommodation and traveling and logistics. appreciate your time and ideas. also refer me good, inexpensive places to stay in these cities.

In general, & especially if you want to save money, 14 locations in 18 days (if you even have a full 18 days) is a waste of time AND money. It actually sounds like a kind of joke itinerary, though I'm sure that's not what you intend. Possibly just a measure of inexperience. But you've come to the right place and many here have the experience to get you back on track.

I suggest you consider cutting the number of destinations in half, or even by two thirds. Count travel days, too, make sure you know your priorities and pick the top few places on your list and how many days (better to count nights in a location) you'll need to see what interests everyone. That's where you must begin. It doesn't sound as though the planning has gotten very specific yet and that's what you need to do. The details like where to stay will come later.

Most people here will say your trip is too rushed. Even though a few years ago, we wrote a blog about successfully visiting 16 countries in 30 days, my only criticism is Italy, where the cities you have chosen cover a lot of area, and there will be significant travel time, in addition to hotel/apartment changes. Depending on what you want to see and do, you may want to simplify Italy. I think you could spend two days in each of two places (Venice and Rome, for example) and see some of the major sites. I would skip Milan and maybe Florence, unless you have a major interest in art. Look at airbnb. Lodging is usually less for hotels especially for four adults. The kitchen can also save you some money on meals.

The most important thing is understanding your travel style as well as the style of the other adults. Some can do a lot in a short period of time and enjoy the travel between destinations (which some see as a negative). We travel with only carry-ons, for example, walk a lot and are out and about from early morning to late at night. Only you will know what you can handle.

If your entire trip is 18 days (home to home) you will only have 15.5 days at most to see/do things -- then subtracting another minimum 2 full days in transit UK > France > Switzerland > Italy you are down to 13.5-ish days free.

If that's the case . . . you do the math -- something (more than a few things actually) will have to give. So first please clarify is your whole trip 18 days or do you have 18 days on the ground plus a couple more travel days? You need to account for at least half a day in transit every time you move. Since apparently London and Rome are musts due to your flights, the UK, maybe a few days in Paris and finish up in Italy.

If you want to travel economically, Switzerland can be a budget buster. And with four people traveling together everything will take longer than traveling solo -- so you really only have time for the UK and Italy.

My plan is to fly from US to London spend 3-4 days visit important places, spend 3-4 days in Paris and surroundings, 5 days in Zurich and surroundings and 5 days in Italy and fly out of Rome back to US.>

OK ambitious but possible:
1- Fly over night to London
2- Landing - relax - take a ride on the Eye Over London big wheel - not a Ferris Wheel technically but about the same in operation - good way to orient yourselves from an eagle's eye view to London all laid out below with signs in each capsule explaining what you looking at https://www.google.com/search?q=eye+over+london+images&tbm=isch&source=un iv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2vMjE5arhAhUEGKwKHW9ZAl4QsAR6B AgIEAE&biw=645&bih=613

Book a timed slot at the official site to avoid long queues.

2-3-4 London
5 Eurostar train to Paris -
5, 6, 7 Paris

8, 9, 10, 11 - Switzerland - In the Jungfrau Area up from Interlaken - I'd spend all nights in say a car-less small town like Wengen and be stunned with views of glacier-girdled Alpine peaks - thrilling cable cars and mountain trains go off in all directions and hiking paths for all levels on abilities, Anyway I would not waste any Swiss time on its cities - nice but rarely exceptional IMO - yeah if you had more time and could on bad weather day easily day trip to Bern - one of Switzerland's finest cities. You can get cheap train tickets for Paris-Interlaken but it will take 5-6 hours to reach Interlaken and another hour for the mountain train to Wengen - there are other nice bases too - like Grindelwald.
But these types of Alpine views is what most come to Switzerland for:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jungfrau+images&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X &ved=2ahUKEwjl6s2T6KrhAhUPKqwKHQRUC4wQsAR6BAgJEAE& biw=645&bih=613&dpr=1.5.

12- Train to Venice
13 Venice
14 Florence
15, 16, 17, Rome.
18- Fly home

Or scratch Switzerland and take overnight hotel train from Paris to Venice (www.thello.com) and spend more time in Venice, Florence or Rome.

Tailor to suit but very possible - book all your trains well in advance for nice discounts on fares -

www.seat61.com has lots on that - generl info on trains also BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com. www.eurostar.com for Chunnel train discounted tickets.

thank you. yes I am inexperienced in this. My family main interests are visiting outdoors, scenic landscapes and important land marks in these places. Yes, if this itinerary is too hectic, i am ready to cut down the number of places. I am going there to visit places and not interested or spend time in restaurants or drinking at bars. I want to spend time as much as i can on visiting the places. Once we get into the city. check in into a hotel or apartment, backpack items necessary including food and go around. we are family of four 2 young adults and parents. 18days total including travel to & from US.

For a reality check: Pal's suggested itinerary gives you 2.5 days in London and leaves no time at all for Warwick/Stratford, nor touring Oxford. You would not have time to see more than maybe 5 of the many iconic sites in London, let alone anywhere else. Then 2.5 days in Paris which allows no time for any day trips nor more than a small taste of Paris. Less than 1.5 days in Venice, less that one day in Florence, and 2.5 days in Rome.

IMO - That would be spending a LOT of time and money for tiny glimpses of these places.

If you want 2 day trips out of London then you'd needs to stay 6 or 7 nights there. For Paris, which is more compact than London, 4 nights might be a good fist visit - but if you also want a day trip out of the city, you'd want at least 5 nights. etc etc.

Another consideration -- more moving around from city to city/country to country costs more $/£/€.

I assume that Warwick, Stratford and Oggsford is one day of bus touring not separate trips. I laid out how it could be done with the caveat to maybe eliminate Switzerland and spread some extra days as well. Just options janis, just options. And surprise 2.5 days in Paris is just fine for some - they see the gist of it and maybe come back on another trip. This could be an orientation trip when I first traveled and I bet you too when young did trips like this - at least I and others like whitehall have done fast=paced trips and loved them - don't try to put everyone in your approach to travel as you tend to do - some folks like fast-paced trips.

No one travel style is good for all. Just look at most group trips - they have itineraries even more hectic often.

Options and what can be done but not what should be done IMO.

The problem with AirBnb might be the short stays in places. Depending on the season, many may require at lease a three night minimum stay. Any problem with hostels?

As silly as it seems, the Paris Tourist Board reports that the average stay here is 2.5 days.

>>I assume that Warwick, Stratford and Oggsford is one day of bus touring not separate trips.<<

Fine, but then they would have barely 1.5 days for London . . . And quit with that stoooopid Oggsford schtick.


>>As silly as it seems, the Paris Tourist Board reports that the average stay here is 2.5 days.<<

Because a very very large number of visitors are on group tours (most Chinese and Japanese, probably close to half of all Americans, etc . . .) and most of them only stay 2 nights.

Scrap Switzerland for starters if you want to save money.

Herding four people around anywhere takes patience and a lot of time spent dealing with picayune stuff like bathroom stops and the need to get a stamp or a drink or whatever. Even if they are well-traveled, this can eat into "vacation time."

Your itinerary, as outlined, will be rushed, expensive, and not give you the "overview" you are hoping for. You'd be better off spending the actual 15 or so days on the ground that you actually apparently have in two places, getting to know them.

Or else, just take a bus tour all over.

I too would cut and cut again. These countries have so much of interest to visit why do you want to see the inside of planes and trains so much?

Which month are you coming as that changes our advice?

I would do either England and a bit of France (so you can use the tunnel)
or
Italy starting in the north where the Alps are (they are not all in Switzerland)

@PAl Oggsford (yes please stop using this) though your attempt to drag the oeuvre of Terry Pratchett into the dreaming spires is noted.

Agree with the others that your plan is VERY ambitious. One way to help you decide what to do is to investigate the time it takes to move from place to place including the waiting time for the transportation. eg: From London to Paris: time from your London accommodation to St. Pancras station, (you must arrive 45-60 minutes before your departure time), time of actual trip to Paris, time to get to your next accommodation to check in, drop luggage, or whatever, etc. etc. You really do lose at least half a day every time you move. Think about what your goal is. Do you want to spend the time travelling or actually seeing and experiencing new places?

To me time spent traveling can be nice too - seeing the Europe outside the train windows and if drop Switzerland and do Paris-Venice there is not that much time spent on the trains.

PAl, I agree that the getting there can be delightful (took the train form Paris to Milan last spring). I loved it. Usually I am the driver on our adventures. However, for the OP it just seems like more travelling and less "being there".

Yes Les can be more!

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. I am planning this from July 23rd to 10th August. I will in Italy in the first week of August. So if I scrap Switzerland from my itinerary, what places i can cover in 15 days, in London UK, Paris in France and Italy? My interests are outdoor, scenic places, monuments and landmarks. say if I spend 4 days in London and surroundings, 4 days in Paris and Lorie valley surroundings and 5 to 6 days in Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence and Tuscany country side etc..) . is this a good plan, then.

Too many locations for that number of days in Italy. It depends on what most interests you, of course. I'd choose a couple of days in Venice, the rest in Rome. But again, what sorts of things most interest you? Renaissance art? Florence instead of Venice maybe. You get the idea. But Rome +1.

>>5 to 6 days in Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence and Tuscany country side etc..) . is this a good plan, then.<<

That would be like trying to cover San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Lake Tahoe in 5 days or 6 days. If you have 5 days -- pick two of them -- which two is up to you. Me - I'd choose Venice and Rome but you may want something else. If you have 6 days you might be able to squeeze a day in one additional location en route to the next place.

If your heart is set. Be warned that Venice and Florence will be packed in August. Will this be a problem for you? Rome is huge and can handle more people.