Four country Europe trip- need suggestions and ideas
 

Hi I am planning to a 18day Europe trip mainly to UK( London main attractions, Warwick Castle, Stratford upon Avon and oxford university tour), France (Paris,Loire Valley.), Swiss (Bern, Zermatt, Lucerne, Zurich) and Italy (Milan, Venice, Florence and Rome). My plan is to fly from US to London spend 3-4 days visit important places, spend 3-4 days in paris and surroundings, 5 days in Zurich and surroundings and 5 days in Italy and fly out of Rome back to US. need help planning this trip. is plan i am putting together is good as regards to optimizing my time while visiting few important places. this is my first trip to europe. also wanted to know is it a good idea and less expensive by doing on my own vs going with a tour company like Taj or Star tours? we are group of four adults. please advise and give me some money saving tips as regards to accommodation and traveling and logistics. appreciate your time and ideas. also refer me good, inexpensive places to stay in these cities.

In general, & especially if you want to save money, 14 locations in 18 days (if you even have a full 18 days) is a waste of time AND money. It actually sounds like a kind of joke itinerary, though I'm sure that's not what you intend. Possibly just a measure of inexperience. But you've come to the right place and many here have the experience to get you back on track.

I suggest you consider cutting the number of destinations in half, or even by two thirds. Count travel days, too, make sure you know your priorities and pick the top few places on your list and how many days (better to count nights in a location) you'll need to see what interests everyone. That's where you must begin. It doesn't sound as though the planning has gotten very specific yet and that's what you need to do. The details like where to stay will come later.

Most people here will say your trip is too rushed. Even though a few years ago, we wrote a blog about successfully visiting 16 countries in 30 days, my only criticism is Italy, where the cities you have chosen cover a lot of area, and there will be significant travel time, in addition to hotel/apartment changes. Depending on what you want to see and do, you may want to simplify Italy. I think you could spend two days in each of two places (Venice and Rome, for example) and see some of the major sites. I would skip Milan and maybe Florence, unless you have a major interest in art. Look at airbnb. Lodging is usually less for hotels especially for four adults. The kitchen can also save you some money on meals.

The most important thing is understanding your travel style as well as the style of the other adults. Some can do a lot in a short period of time and enjoy the travel between destinations (which some see as a negative). We travel with only carry-ons, for example, walk a lot and are out and about from early morning to late at night. Only you will know what you can handle.

If your entire trip is 18 days (home to home) you will only have 15.5 days at most to see/do things -- then subtracting another minimum 2 full days in transit UK > France > Switzerland > Italy you are down to 13.5-ish days free.

If that's the case . . . you do the math -- something (more than a few things actually) will have to give. So first please clarify is your whole trip 18 days or do you have 18 days on the ground plus a couple more travel days? You need to account for at least half a day in transit every time you move. Since apparently London and Rome are musts due to your flights, the UK, maybe a few days in Paris and finish up in Italy.

If you want to travel economically, Switzerland can be a budget buster. And with four people traveling together everything will take longer than traveling solo -- so you really only have time for the UK and Italy.

My plan is to fly from US to London spend 3-4 days visit important places, spend 3-4 days in Paris and surroundings, 5 days in Zurich and surroundings and 5 days in Italy and fly out of Rome back to US.>

OK ambitious but possible:
1- Fly over night to London
2- Landing - relax - take a ride on the Eye Over London big wheel - not a Ferris Wheel technically but about the same in operation - good way to orient yourselves from an eagle's eye view to London all laid out below with signs in each capsule explaining what you looking at https://www.google.com/search?q=eye+over+london+images&tbm=isch&source=un iv&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2vMjE5arhAhUEGKwKHW9ZAl4QsAR6B AgIEAE&biw=645&bih=613

Book a timed slot at the official site to avoid long queues.

2-3-4 London
5 Eurostar train to Paris -
5, 6, 7 Paris

8, 9, 10, 11 - Switzerland - In the Jungfrau Area up from Interlaken - I'd spend all nights in say a car-less small town like Wengen and be stunned with views of glacier-girdled Alpine peaks - thrilling cable cars and mountain trains go off in all directions and hiking paths for all levels on abilities, Anyway I would not waste any Swiss time on its cities - nice but rarely exceptional IMO - yeah if you had more time and could on bad weather day easily day trip to Bern - one of Switzerland's finest cities. You can get cheap train tickets for Paris-Interlaken but it will take 5-6 hours to reach Interlaken and another hour for the mountain train to Wengen - there are other nice bases too - like Grindelwald.
But these types of Alpine views is what most come to Switzerland for:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jungfrau+images&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X &ved=2ahUKEwjl6s2T6KrhAhUPKqwKHQRUC4wQsAR6BAgJEAE& biw=645&bih=613&dpr=1.5.

12- Train to Venice
13 Venice
14 Florence
15, 16, 17, Rome.
18- Fly home

Or scratch Switzerland and take overnight hotel train from Paris to Venice (www.thello.com) and spend more time in Venice, Florence or Rome.

Tailor to suit but very possible - book all your trains well in advance for nice discounts on fares -

www.seat61.com has lots on that - generl info on trains also BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com. www.eurostar.com for Chunnel train discounted tickets.

thank you. yes I am inexperienced in this. My family main interests are visiting outdoors, scenic landscapes and important land marks in these places. Yes, if this itinerary is too hectic, i am ready to cut down the number of places. I am going there to visit places and not interested or spend time in restaurants or drinking at bars. I want to spend time as much as i can on visiting the places. Once we get into the city. check in into a hotel or apartment, backpack items necessary including food and go around. we are family of four 2 young adults and parents. 18days total including travel to & from US.

For a reality check: Pal's suggested itinerary gives you 2.5 days in London and leaves no time at all for Warwick/Stratford, nor touring Oxford. You would not have time to see more than maybe 5 of the many iconic sites in London, let alone anywhere else. Then 2.5 days in Paris which allows no time for any day trips nor more than a small taste of Paris. Less than 1.5 days in Venice, less that one day in Florence, and 2.5 days in Rome.

IMO - That would be spending a LOT of time and money for tiny glimpses of these places.

If you want 2 day trips out of London then you'd needs to stay 6 or 7 nights there. For Paris, which is more compact than London, 4 nights might be a good fist visit - but if you also want a day trip out of the city, you'd want at least 5 nights. etc etc.

Another consideration -- more moving around from city to city/country to country costs more $/£/€.

I assume that Warwick, Stratford and Oggsford is one day of bus touring not separate trips. I laid out how it could be done with the caveat to maybe eliminate Switzerland and spread some extra days as well. Just options janis, just options. And surprise 2.5 days in Paris is just fine for some - they see the gist of it and maybe come back on another trip. This could be an orientation trip when I first traveled and I bet you too when young did trips like this - at least I and others like whitehall have done fast=paced trips and loved them - don't try to put everyone in your approach to travel as you tend to do - some folks like fast-paced trips.

No one travel style is good for all. Just look at most group trips - they have itineraries even more hectic often.

Options and what can be done but not what should be done IMO.

The problem with AirBnb might be the short stays in places. Depending on the season, many may require at lease a three night minimum stay. Any problem with hostels?

As silly as it seems, the Paris Tourist Board reports that the average stay here is 2.5 days.

>>I assume that Warwick, Stratford and Oggsford is one day of bus touring not separate trips.<<

Fine, but then they would have barely 1.5 days for London . . . And quit with that stoooopid Oggsford schtick.


>>As silly as it seems, the Paris Tourist Board reports that the average stay here is 2.5 days.<<

Because a very very large number of visitors are on group tours (most Chinese and Japanese, probably close to half of all Americans, etc . . .) and most of them only stay 2 nights.

Scrap Switzerland for starters if you want to save money.

Herding four people around anywhere takes patience and a lot of time spent dealing with picayune stuff like bathroom stops and the need to get a stamp or a drink or whatever. Even if they are well-traveled, this can eat into "vacation time."

Your itinerary, as outlined, will be rushed, expensive, and not give you the "overview" you are hoping for. You'd be better off spending the actual 15 or so days on the ground that you actually apparently have in two places, getting to know them.

Or else, just take a bus tour all over.

I too would cut and cut again. These countries have so much of interest to visit why do you want to see the inside of planes and trains so much?

Which month are you coming as that changes our advice?

I would do either England and a bit of France (so you can use the tunnel)
or
Italy starting in the north where the Alps are (they are not all in Switzerland)

@PAl Oggsford (yes please stop using this) though your attempt to drag the oeuvre of Terry Pratchett into the dreaming spires is noted.

Agree with the others that your plan is VERY ambitious. One way to help you decide what to do is to investigate the time it takes to move from place to place including the waiting time for the transportation. eg: From London to Paris: time from your London accommodation to St. Pancras station, (you must arrive 45-60 minutes before your departure time), time of actual trip to Paris, time to get to your next accommodation to check in, drop luggage, or whatever, etc. etc. You really do lose at least half a day every time you move. Think about what your goal is. Do you want to spend the time travelling or actually seeing and experiencing new places?

To me time spent traveling can be nice too - seeing the Europe outside the train windows and if drop Switzerland and do Paris-Venice there is not that much time spent on the trains.

PAl, I agree that the getting there can be delightful (took the train form Paris to Milan last spring). I loved it. Usually I am the driver on our adventures. However, for the OP it just seems like more travelling and less "being there".

Yes Les can be more!

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions. I am planning this from July 23rd to 10th August. I will in Italy in the first week of August. So if I scrap Switzerland from my itinerary, what places i can cover in 15 days, in London UK, Paris in France and Italy? My interests are outdoor, scenic places, monuments and landmarks. say if I spend 4 days in London and surroundings, 4 days in Paris and Lorie valley surroundings and 5 to 6 days in Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence and Tuscany country side etc..) . is this a good plan, then.

Too many locations for that number of days in Italy. It depends on what most interests you, of course. I'd choose a couple of days in Venice, the rest in Rome. But again, what sorts of things most interest you? Renaissance art? Florence instead of Venice maybe. You get the idea. But Rome +1.

>>5 to 6 days in Italy (Rome, Venice, Florence and Tuscany country side etc..) . is this a good plan, then.<<

That would be like trying to cover San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Lake Tahoe in 5 days or 6 days. If you have 5 days -- pick two of them -- which two is up to you. Me - I'd choose Venice and Rome but you may want something else. If you have 6 days you might be able to squeeze a day in one additional location en route to the next place.

If your heart is set. Be warned that Venice and Florence will be packed in August. Will this be a problem for you? Rome is huge and can handle more people.

First point:. Buy your plane tickets so that you fly into your starting city--London-- and out of your ending city, whatever that is. This is known as multi-city or open-jaw ticket. It saves you a day of travel going back to your starting point.

Second, when you say you want yo save money, what do you mean by it? For 18 nights, what is your total lodgings budget?

The reason I ask is this: you have mentioned wanting to see scenic sights more than once. I'm not sure you should drop Switzerland. Give your dates, I would drop Rome and Florence. It will be pretty hot in both. And this edit would balance the city heavy trip you otherwise have.




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Is going with a professional tour company is better than going on our own? do you suggest any tour company if it is a better idea.

Maybe at this point in your planning and given the ground you wish to cover, seeing a travel agent who can expose you to many different professional tour options would be a good idea.

do you guys recommend any tour companies?

Organized tours will not save you money. A tour that covers three countries will be expensive and a blur.

On your own you could do:
Fly into London. 4 nights (3 full days) with ONE day trip
Train to Paris. 4 nights (3 full days) with ONE day trip (for Loire you probably need an organized day trip)
Fly to Venice. 2 nights (1 full day). Train to Florence 2 nights (1.5 days). Train to Rome. 3 nights (2.5 days). This is bare MINIMUM time in each place and assumes a lot of research ahead of time to understand local transportation, booking hotels in very good locations, etc. And NOT planning on going to things requiring long waiting lines or very time consuming (e.g. in Paris go look at the Eiffel Tower, don't plan to go up in it, don't go into the Louvre, etc.). If you are happy with this kind of trip it is doable. Your original posts indicated way more day trips, etc. This trip would be an initial "taste of" trip. If you want more in depth you need to drop another country.

two jet lagged days in London? Why not just one?

hello All, I am palnning to take Eurostar train from London Ebbsfleet to Paris Nord. I am getting a good price from this station, instead of St. Pancras to Paris Nord stn. The trian starts at 8:38am. how early i need to be there if i am travelling from Kings Cross or somewhere Holloway isligton to Ebbsfleet international stn? has anyone traveled on train from here to paris. is the commute from london city center to here is easy by taxi? or train. please advise.

That is pretty convoluted. since the easiest way to get to Ebbsfleet from central London is from . . . St Pancras. Islington/Holloway is a large area so exactly where will you be? But just using Highbury & Islington station -- you'd have to take the tube to St Pancras and a SE train from there (Not the Eurostar so in a different part of the station and quite a long walk).

Unless you are saving a LOT of ££ I don't think it is worth the effort. From Highbury/Islington the entire journey will take about 35 minutes and you will want to be at Ebbsfleet International by about 0745. The journey would be different from other tube stations.

we are four of us and i save $30 per person, so $120 total. how about a cab?

I would count on an hour and 15 minutes by taxi from Islington. If you're unlucky with traffic it could easily be 1,5 hours.
Unless it's on a weekend with lighter traffic, I really wouldn't do that. You risk missing your train if you are stuck in traffic.

Ebbsfleet is not in London but a long way out in Kent. I reckon a taxi will cost you more than you think you have saved. Even taking the train there will be expensive.

I'd not use Ebbsfleet to what you are trying to do. Too tricky and probably too expensive.

If your main interest is scenic beauty/Alpine meadows etc I would not drop Switzerland and Jungfrau area.

ok, thank you. Four of us travelling in trains between London-Paris-Zurich-Lucerne-Zermatt-Interlaken-Chur-Tinaro-Vennice-Florence-Rome.
May be at least 10 train trips total stay between these places. we are four of us. Is it a good idea to but four country eurorail pass? or point to point ticket. which way I save? Eurorail pass is valid in these four countries? please advise.

>>we are four of us and i save $30 per person, so $120 total. how about a cab?<<

A taxi would cost about as much as transatlantic airfare -- only a slight exaggeration. It would certainly cost ay least $120 (£90-ish). It is more than 25 miles and would likely take 80-90 minutes and with bad traffic could easily cost £100+. Just pay the extra $30 pp and take the Eurostar from St Pancras.

It's up to you to do the math and match point-to-point ticket prices for four people on each of those train journeys and compare the total to the total of rail passes. But generally speaking, rail passes aren't worth the money (or the hassle of arranging and paying extra for seat reservations on long-haul trips).

Instead of a Eurailpass I'd strongly consider looking at the Swiss Travel Pass for trains, lake boats, buses, trams and free entry to hundreds of sights. And buy discounted tickets for your other trips. the Swiss Travel Pass IMO would be great for you Swiss travels - hop on virtually any train anytime.

Check www.sbb.ch - Swiss Railway site for pass prices and maps of validity - cable cars are usually half-off as are trains to mountain tops. For help with discounted tickets for other trains check www.seat61.com.