I thought gay folks were just like you and me; they're our neighbors, sisters, brothers, etc. I now have been enlightened by this thread that tells me in no uncertain terms their travel planning needs are so vastly different. All this time I presumed they, like me, were interested in sightseeing, shopping, eating at restaurants, visiting museums and the like.

Thanks for the education!

I was not going to weigh in on this thread because IHO it seemed that Tom has a huge gay chip on his shoulder... and I am not remotely homophobic.

After some thought it seems to me that a guide book should help a person navigate a country, city and area. And if a town or area has a large gay population then that should be included in the book.

Cimbrone:

No – I never play the self-hating card. Your points are well-taken.

Didn’t we meet last year at Marienbad?

jnjfraz:

Good post. Maybe I do have too big a gay chip on my shoulder.

Tomripley & Cimbrone -- could you tell me, when the clock struck at midnight, did you meet and leave?

Was it actually Marienbad? Or Karlsbad where you met? Did someone shoot someone else? And what's the secret behind the Nim game?

Pray, tell! :-)

P.S. There used to be a lot more segments from this movie on YouTube, but now I can only find one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38LnA...eature=related

Wow, Tom, glad to see you softening. :)

Marienbad? Were you wearing Thomas Pink and did you send over a pilsner? I think so!

'The Talented Mr Ripley'. I think not. You are a sad, sad person.

There seems to be one of these ludicrous threads each weekend. You're not travelme in disguise are you?

What I want to know is why Fodor's guides fail to mention how to change a flat tire. I am just going to stop buying guides that fail to provide me with information that I deem so vital to life on the road.

Now that we've established that tom's title was a poor choice, I think he makes a pretty good point. A large segment of the traveling public is gay. In any section of a guidebook on bars and nightclubs, it does strike me as odd not to have a gay and lesbian section for those who want it.

Changing a tire? Not a very convincing point, rogeruktm. Still, it's Fodor's prerogative. They seem to be trying to maintain a more "mainstream image." There are several guidebooks that do better serve those looking for specifically gay venues.

I am a traveler, and I am gay. I do not consider myself a gay traveler. Get the difference? I have no use and never have had, for gay guides that list all the places that are primarily exclusive for gays -- the wild clubs and bars, etc. We stay, play, and eat where all types of people go. But I did always like the idea of a few suggestions of more "main stream" primarily gay or gay friendly establishments, and I liked the general reference to what gays should expect in a particular city. Yes, Fodor's Guides always did that.
Now those helpful hints are gone. I don't buy guides any more anyway, but rely on information on sites like this, so it really doesn't bother me -- but I do see where tomripley is coming from -- regardless of his poorly phrased title.

Yes, you are right! We met in Karlsbad! We went for a swim in the outdoor pool in the snow last winter and then had a couple of Pilsner Urquells. My those Speedos were tight! When will Europe discover board shorts?

Actually Cimbrone, I was never that hard. (Wait, that didn¡¦t sound right. ƒº)

Patrick, you're my kind of Gay!!! :)

OK, maybe the title was a little bit harsh. And maybe I was waiting for a poster like “stfc,” and when he obligingly came along, I went off.

Yet – apologies for the title aside – I am glad this post is getting attention. I hope it still gets attention when the Fodor’s editors turn review the page. Aside from learning that at least some people resent the sudden disappearance gay travel advice they will learn some unpleasant things about their guidebooks. Namely, that few people on this site actually buy them. I certainly feel as though there is an overall decline in the quality of the books. Even the posters who were trying to deflate my point were doing so by saying that I should consult OTHER sources. Fodor’s is a business, and I’m sure that they want the guidebook-buying public to spend money on their books and not Lonely Planet’s or Time Out’s. Even some of the dedicated Fodorites say they only use the site because it is superior to the books. (Even more distressing – that they believe what the posters say and not the staff writers.) Perhaps Fodor’s is just fazing out the books entirely. If so, that is a bit sad. I do so enjoy throwing one in my travel-on whenever I go anywhere.

A guidebook can't all things to all people, and the thing is, there isn't just ONE gay demographic...

Singles or childless couples in my age group, gay or straight, don't use Fodors guidebooks. Especially not for nightlife advice. Good lord.

On the other hand, I know plenty of aging married gay couples who are in no need of club listings or advice on scenes of any kind. This age group is also probably the one who is far more likely to use an actual published guidebook, and I don't need to point out that this boomer demographic is still the big one being sought out and catered to.

Families were mentioned- I don't know why families and gay/lesbians would be considered mutually exclusive-for the most part families with young children are now headed by parents who are young enough to automatically turn to the internet when looking for specific information. Onviously that includes gay parents.

It sounds to me like your gripe is actually about a dearth of gay nightlife information in Fodors books. No duh. Who relies on a guidebook, any guidebook, for that?

I think the comment/example of Vienna is a little off too. If someone wants lots of action and nightlife when they go away, they should research places that would best fit with that.

If I wanted to spend a lot of time at the ballet, I wouldn't arbitrarily pick a city and then figure I'd research things when I get there, only to discover there are no good companies in that city. I wouldn't depend on the word of Fodors or any other guidebook about ballet, either. Not if ballet were important to me.

I can't help but think that you might be the one who's conservative if you're expecting to get all your needs met from a guidebook (some of the most conservative people I know are super gay, so I never get this "conservative on one side, gay on the other" way of thinking, either)

NeoPatrick:

Yes. What I liked about Fodor’s was that it was an all-around good guidebook PLUS it had the best gay bars listed. It seems like any exclusively gay guidebook (I’m thinking of the Damron series here) is just a list of bathhouses and bad information.

Anyway, what's so surprising if someone cancels his Fodor's account completely? There are people who prefer to do that. I have friends who canceled their Facebook accounts completely. Gone -- without a trace

Just for my information - then if i cancel and old screen name or even present one as per instructions given then are all my posts automatically erased and whole threads, etc.

Just curious to know if this is really possible?

ripley - Sitges in Spain is certainly one gay travel mecca

Slightly off-topic, but the age of solely using guidebooks (whether it's Fodors or not) to plan trips is long gone. With the advent of www, I can't imagine anyone planning a trip with only guidebooks in hand!

I will look at guidebooks to get general ideas (which place I want to go), but even that, I only borrow the guidebooks from my local library! After I decide on my destination, I use info mostly from the internet.

No matter how "updated" a particular guide book is, things change all the time. I never rely on a guide book with opening times or train/bus schedules etc. I always go to the source to gather information.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear from Fodors editors standpoint as to the reason why they got rid of the "gay travel advice" section. Perhaps they got complaints from gay travelers saying that Fodors "single them out" and they are just travelers who are like Patrick here?

For
france lovers, France guide offers a free magazine for the gay tourist:

http://franceshop.jaggedpeak.com/ind...=shop.getItems

Apres Londee:

You write:

“It sounds to me like your gripe is actually about a dearth of gay nightlife information in Fodors books. No duh. Who relies on a guidebook, any guidebook, for that?”

I used to, for one. I know you can Google “Gay Budapest” and some websites will come up, but they will be of questionable authenticity. For the truth, I always consult Fodor’s, Time Out, or other respectable travel writers first. Yes, you can go to Wikitravel – and yes, it is a surprisingly good website – but it is not vetted, so to speak. I like to spontaneously choose and research new travel destinations. Fodor’s used to be one of my most valuable resources. Not anymore.

“I think the comment/example of Vienna is a little off too. If someone wants lots of action and nightlife when they go away, they should research places that would best fit with that.”

Exactly! Fodor’s was a way to do that. Not anymore! I used Vienna because it is a beautiful city with a lot to see and do during the day. That is important to me as well. I like places with both good nightlife and a lot to see and do during the day. I don’t want to just go to “gay” destinations all the time. Even San Francisco gets boring after a while.

"And maybe I was waiting for a poster like “stfc,” and when he obligingly came along, I went off."

You would have 'gone off' whatever I wrote. I am indeed middle-aged, white, happily-married and straight, but from this you choose to ascertain my opinions. How little you know or understand. You wallow in self-indulgence.