Feedback on itinerary
 

Your thoughts on this Spain itinerary. We have been to Barcelona, so not on the list this time.

Probable dates would be starting last week in April 2024. Our best option for flights seem to be round trip Madrid.

Madrid 3 nights
Pick up car rental
Segovia to Salamanca
2 nights Salamanca
Toledo 2 nights
Consuegra , and Camp de Criptana day visit to windmills
Ubeda 2 nights
Cordoba 3 nights
Ronda 2 nights
Cadiz 2 nights
Return rental car in Seville
Seville 4 nights
Transport from Seville to Malaga suggestions
Malaga 3 nights
Transport to Granada suggestions
Granada 4 nights
Flight from Granada to Madrid with overnight at Madrid airport before flying home.

Does this make any sense at all?
We are trying to avoid having a car in the largest cities, so thought returning it prior to Seville might work best. Having the rental car up until then would give us flexibility to see the smaller areas that don’t have the best public transport options.

I also found out that Iberia Express airlines is a low cost option to get us back to Madrid quickly and cheaply. Any thoughts on that?

Our interests are hobby photography, architecture and historical sites. We will visit a few museums, but that is not a major interest. We are not into the nightlife scene, but appreciate good food. One in our group is vegetarian, so any help on restaurants that include that would be appreciated.

i would love feedback on the allotment of days, the route chosen and the itinerary in general.

Apart from Consuegra (not sure about that) you don't actually need a car to travel between or in any of these places. If you want a car because you plan leisurely drives with diversions between stops, then that's different.

Salamanca is your outlier. I think I'd travel by train to Segovia (or even Salamanca) on arrival in Spain. Or possibly Toledo if you don't need a car to visit Consuegra. Then cluster your time in Madrid to the end of your trip.

I think I'd also reverse things a bit and end up in Seville (or Cordoba), which has fast and frequent trains back to Madrid. Even if you end your Andalusia stay in Granada, I'd take the train to central Madrid instead of flying, as I would find that more relaxing, definitely more scenic and I worry about the environmental impact of flights. And if you count the door to door time, short flights are often no faster than trains. The easiest way from Granada to Malaga, we found, was bus. There are also buses from Ronda to Jerez and Cadiz but they don't run frequently (but it is scenic). Both trains and buses in Spain are excellent, in our experience.

Rome2rio is a good starting point for transport options. It doesn't have every route and you should click through to the transport providers website for accurate timetables but it's a very useful resource.

My suggestion would be:
Madrid 3 nights
Toledo 2 night
Return to Madrid, pick up car.
Keep car for the rest of the trip,
go wherever you want when you want to.
Return car in Madrid.

Thanks for the replies.
I like the idea of reversing the trip. We will be traveling with another couple so the expense of a rental car would be split. We do want a rental car so as to visit the windmills and as you said a leisurely drive with diversions whenever we like. As photographers, we often see something in route and it would be nice to have the option to stop. Of course the rental car is something that will need more investigation for cost effectiveness with the expense of gas and parking.

Do you think the days allotted for the cities seems right, or would you cut or add. What are you thought on Malaga. Leave it in, or cut it altogether? I have read some comments that Malaga is not that interesting.

After more thought, I have a revised route. Madrid 3 nights
Pick up car rental
Segovia to Salamanca
2 nights Salamanca
Toledo 2 nights
Consuegra , and Campo de Criptana day visit to windmills
Ubeda 2 nights
Granada 4 nights. mabey cut to 3
Malaga? More research to determine how many nights or cut out altogether.
Possible stop in Antequera?
Ronda 2 nights for White Villages before and after
Cadiz 2 nights
Return rental car in Seville or possibly Cadiz with train to Seville
Seville 4 maybe 5 nights
Train to Cordoba 2-3 nights.
Train from Cordoba back to Madrid for flight home.

Would love thoughts on this revised route?

I would spend two nights in Segovia, cutting somewhere else.

There are countries where taking a car makes sense over trains. Spain? Nah.

biloburgler, It appears that a lot of the smaller places we would like to visit such as Consuegra, Campo de Criptana, and The white villages are not very accessible by public transport. Am I missing something when I try to search for that?

No you are not missing anything.

Having been to both to Antequera and Ronda I would drop the two nights in Ronda faster than last period French.
Fotr the life of me I don't understand the attraction of Ronda.

The parador in Antequera is very nice and it just as covenient for visiting the white villages.

In Salamanca we stayed at the Grand Hotel Corona Sol, thay share the carpark with a Mercadona. Easy walking distance to the interesting stuff.
As an added bonus the hotel is near this place for great chocolate and churros
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...1647521fc6.jpg

We stayed three nights at the Manzanares parador recently (Feb), in the middle of nowhere but easty drive to the windmills and Valdepenas, where we spent a plesant afternoon.

Ubeda looks more interesting, though.

Added info:
Bambú Tapas y Brasas is a great place to eat, it is popular with students if you are over forty you will feel ancient yet optimistic.
https://www.bambubrasas.com/

As you can tell we loved Salamanca.

In 1985 we did a tour of Sapin starting in the French Pyrenees because that's where our friends were who lent us one of their cars. We were three to travel. Together we saw Segovia and Avila. The our friend decided to go to Madrid and Toledo while we continued to Salamanca and then drove down the Extramadura to Seville, Cordoba and Granada. Our friend rejoined us in Seville. We drove back north, dropping our friend off at a train station to go back to Madrid while we continued on our trip back to France. The point of this narration is that Toledo is close enough to Madrid that it can be included as part of the Madrid visit (we have not seen it yet) by public transportation rather than as a detour by car. We drove by Campo de Criptana, which at that time did not need more than a brief stop.


For a sense of what we saw on our loop, here is the entire album, of which the first (before Segovia) and last (after Campo de Criptana) part is irrelevant to your planned itinerary:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjp5co3q

With the car hire decision, I would be thinking both about the time you have in each destination and the journey between them. I always prefer to stay in the centre of towns like these and often the hotels I choose (small, local and attractive) don't have parking and street parking if often very challenging. These towns are invariably best explored by walking, not driving (unless you have serious mobility issues of course). Given that most of your destinations are linked by good transport, you could just hire a car for a few days here and there to explore places like the white villages of Andalusia (yes you can visit some by bus but more convenient by car). You would also avoid one way drop off fees.

With regard to your revised itinerary, I always prefer to be in my departure city before any important flight so I recommend at least one night in Madrid before flying home. To avoid another hotel change, I often prefer to cluster my time there rather than stay at the beginning of my holiday and again at the end. In respect of Malaga, I think some of the negative comments you may hear are about the built up beach locations outside of Malaga. I've only ever been to Malaga once, for a short stay and it was in December (with all the Christmas lights) but we liked it and enjoyed our stay there. fwiw, we also enjoyed Ronda and wished we'd had longer there. There is lots to enjoy in Seville, Cordoba and Granada so I would stay longer rather than shorter, when picking number of nights.

loukay,
I wrote to studenttobe the reasons why I love Málaga here in posts 12 and 13, in case it helps.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...e-nov-1717216/

Will your Salamanca to Toledo trip be by car? It will be a 3 hour, 15 to 30 minute drive w/o stops. I believe you are planning to do this by rental car and if so, you'll enjoy a stop in Avila to photograph the medieval walls and even walk them. The route, Salamanca, Avila, Gredos, Toledo is the best one.

dreamon, I will have to investigate parking in the places we plan to have the car and see if parking is available. We will definitely add our nights in Madrid to the end of the trip. That makes much more sense. We will also look into dropping the car when we arrive in Granada, take the train to Malaga and then maybe pick a car up again for the drive to Ronda and on to Cadiz. Maybe drop the car in Cadiz and then train to Seville. The idea of having the car from Malaga to Cadiz will give us the opportunity to do the white villages en route to Ronda, and the from Ronda to Cadiz. Does this make sense.

Maribel, would picking up the car at Madrid airport, then on to Salamanca, Segovia and then on the Toledo make more sense? It will be a shorter drive to Toledo from Segovia. I also think you have convinced me to keep Malaga in the itinerary.

I like the freedom of car travel. Especially for a serious photographer. Especially for four people. We definitely got to see different things among the white villages, for example, and do it at our own pace. In cities, we always found places to put our car. A hotel can usually help you if needed. Just realize you can't drive anywhere you like in historic pedestrianized zones.

Cordoba is one of my favorite places in Europe, and I believe there is more to see there than Granada, so I will always tell people more nights there than Granada.

louky52, will you be coming off a long haul flight where you will have missed sleep? That would influence my decision about hiring a car immediately upon arrival in Spain.

loukay,
Wrote a long reply but haven't been able to post it (maybe too long?), so I sent it via a PM to you.
Hope it helps.
I'll try again later to post it here.

we will be coming off a long haul, but my husband is usually able to get some shut eye. Since the drive to Salamanca is only about 2 1/2 hours we figured it would be doable.

I always am able to sleep on the plane, but I certainly wouldn't trust myself for a 2 1/2 hour drive after an overnight flight. It's not only the lack of sleep. Your body hasn't had time to adjust to the time change, and your reaction times are slower even if you don't feel sleepy.

Ávila is a beautiful small city with massive walls, certainly worth a stop.

I would also recommend a stop at the Castillo de Coca, a massive castle not far from Segovia.

How long of haul?

Drives I have done right after landing in MAD after flying YUL-PHL-MAD without any problems;
Oropesa, Cuenca, Zaragoza, Salamanca, Manzanares.

Anyway, your plan is three nights in Madrid, more than enough time to get ovet jetlag.

Our flight will be from Nashville, probably with connection in JFK or PHL, so about the same as you. We are now thinking of revising the plan and picking up the car upon arrival and directly to Salamanca. We would then put Madrid at the back end of the trip so we would be near the airport for our flight home. We are also thinking of changing up the itinerary to leave Cordoba for after Granada so as to have a shorter train ride back to Madrid.

Here is the reworked plan...
Flight into Madrid
Pick up car rental
2 nights Segovia
2 nights Salamanca
Stop in Avila
Toledo 2 nights
Consuegra , and Campo de Criptana day visit to windmills
Ubeda 2 nights
Return car prior to Granada?
Granada 3 nights.
Malaga 3 nights
Seville 4 maybe 5 nights
Cadiz 2 nights
PIck up rental car
Ronda 2 nights for White Villages before and after
Return rental car in Cordoba
Cordoba 3 nights.
Train from Cordoba back to Madrid
Madrid 3 nights
Flight home

That is going to be a spectacular trip! Imagine how many rolls of film I would have used back in the day.....

BTW, I think the Festival de los Patios is May 6-19 in Cordoba. Not sure about your timing, but some patios will be open that are normally off limits to the public. You might want to look up patio walks in advance.

It´s a very good idea to drop the car in Granada at the train station. There is strict vehicular control in the center of the city, which makes it a major hassle to maneuver with a car.
Restricted Areas. CGIM. Mobility Area. City of Granada.
Areas with traffic restrictions in Granada | Turismo de Granada

In Ubeda, we stay at the Parador, which has parking. We're members of their Amigos program, I get a weekly newsletter alerting me to special rates for Amigos,, and we also qualify for their Golden Age rate (55+). So when we can, we stay at Paradors, except for in Córdoba, which isn't convenient, as it´s slightly outside of town (there's a bus but it doesn't run often enough for us).

It will be a good idea to drop the car off at Córdoba rail. With a car, I learned it best to stay outside of the labyrinthine Jewish Quarter, where it´s a major PITA to move around in a car. I was just there moving in and out in a taxi and made a note to myself never, ever to attempt to navigate this historic maze with my own car.

I understand your wish to pick up the car at the airport then straight on to Salamanca, then down to Segovia then on to Toledo. But given that you’ll be coming in on a long haul flight, it would be wiser, I think, just to get as far as Segovia. Coming from Seattle with 1 transfer for many years, we learned not to push on any further than Segovia or La Granja (both w/Paradors).

From Segovia, I´d make the drive to Salamanca, then after having rested more, make that drive from Salamanca down to Toledo through Avila (to photograph the walled city at the Cuatro Postes outside of town for that postcard perfect photo) and perhaps walk the walls themselves, then through Gredos (San Martin de Valdeiglesias has a castle and is wine producing, garnacha grape). Then from Toledo to Consuegra and Campo de Criptana for the windmills.

Where we park when we take that route in our car--
Salamanca--we at times stay at the Parador on the other side of the Roman bridge, which has its own parking. The very nice Hospes Palacio de San Esteban is also easy to reach, closer to the two Cathedrals/U. buildings and offers private parking.

Segovia--there's a very handy underground parking garage near the aqueduct, on Padre Claret, in front of the Burger King.
https://parkimeter.com/es/parking-segovia/parking-acueducto-oriental-segovia?utm_source=google_business&utm_medium=refe rral&utm_campaign=website

Toledo--again, a handy underground parking garage, the Indigo Recaredo, from which a short walk to the other side of the street takes you to one of the 2 escalators (remonte mecánico) that transports you up to the historic quarter.
https://parclick.com/parking-toledo/recaredo

If you want to pick up a car again after leaving Málaga to venture up to Ronda, that makes sense.

We’re actually big fans of using Ronda as a multi-night base for hiking, prehistoric cave exploring, photography, visiting the Roman ruins of Acinipo and nearby white towns of Grazalema, Zahara de la Sierra and Olvera to the north. Ronda makes a better central base, as it offers more lodging, dining options and even some evening entertainment (guitar concerts), an evocative ancient Arab quarter, a beautiful park and the great churrería Alba, 80 years old.

In Ronda the Parador has its own garage as does the Catalonia Reina Victoria, both w/fantastic views. The Catalonia Ronda has a pool overlooking the bullring but parking is nearby.
Probably the closest, most convenient public parking garage in the town center would be at the Plaza del Socorro, but it’s very steep access with sharp turns (I’ve done this in a mini van, aargh!).
https://apk2gestion.com/es/parking/plaza-del-socorro

Antequera isn’t convenient for visiting the above mentioned white towns, since it sits, at best, a full hour or, at worst, an hour and a half away by car.

Do you think this event will impact the availability or price of lodging? If so, I may have to make my reservations sooner rather than later.

The patio festival won't impact the price of Córdoba lodging quite as much as Holy Week and April Fair, 2 weeks later do in Seville, but the dates of the patio festival will be considered high season. I would book as soon as you can.

The Casas de la Judería, where we/ve stayed, has rates of 205/night during the festival but only 180 in April after Holy Week and 144 before Holy Week, so yes, the prices will be impacted for the most popular city center hotels.
For those dates the Parador is much, much less, but again, incconvient for enjoying the festival fully, as it sits outside of town.

Thanks, I will be booking as soon as I get the itinerary finalized.

in Cordoba, stay in a place with a patio! Casa Longa is right in the heart where patio tours are given and has a beautiful one (I believe it has won awards). Though this is not a personal rec. $142 per room during the festival. There is public parking nearby if that helps.

The Casas de La Judería has several patios and a pool. Poster KarenWoo enjoyed it very much, as we did. I recommend it for friends because it´s outside of the souk'like atmosphere of the ubiquitous souvenir shops, tucked away in a quiet area sort of across from the Alcázar, near the Caballerizas Reales, for the horse ballet, and on the way to the group of patios of the San Basilio quarter, 4 of which are always open outside of the festival dates.
The Balcón de Córdoba is much pricier during the festival but also has an indoor courtyard for dining.
The NH Amistad also has an interior courtyard with pool.

Hotel choices
 

I am now in the confusing work of deciding on hotels. When checking the websites, it seems information on bed and room sizes is very difficult to discern. I would love some feedback on these specifically.
Toledo
Hotel Boutique Adolfo
Sercotel Alfonso VI
Eugenia Autograph Collection

Granada
Melia Granada (particularly the Level rooms) seems to be some bad reviews about rooms being small, but the level rooms are huge by European standards. Am I missing something here? It almost seems to good to be true at the pricing.
Hotel Puerta De Las Granadas
Shine Albazan (very hard to figure out room configuration from website)
Hotel Comfort Dauro
Gar Anat
Aurea Catedral (love it, but is it worth that much more)

Thanks in advance, I will be back for more advice when I get to the other city booking.

If you use booking.com, the description of each room available will list its size, either in square feet or square meters.

For Toledo, I'd choose the Hotel Boutique Adolfo for its location.

For Granada, I wouldn't choose the Comfort Dauro, as your other choices are more "boutique" and offer a greater comfort level, although the pricing of the Dauro is probably the best, especially if you´re budget conscious. It's a solid budget choice but not as "memorable".

If it were my choice, I'd opt for the Gar Anat, tucked away on a quiet square, yet very walkable to the major sights, OR splurge on the Aurea Cathedral.
The Shine Albaizín is located directly on the Carrera del Darro, which goes along the river, which is also the route of the segways, the tuk tuks, the tourist train, the red minibus and the pedestrian route to the beginning of the walk up to the Albaizín at the Cuesta del Chapiz, so it´s a very busy, heavily transited street these days.

Room and bed sizes are listed on hotel booking sites, but it is not always evident. Once you see the list of room options, you are not done. You may have to select the room by room name (ie, "superior double") to get a popup that lists further details.

Ditto to what shelemm has written, which I should have explained more...
Using booking.com, you will need to select the room first by name from the available ones, then click on details.

For example, on booking.com when you put Shine Albayzín in your search window, if available for your dates, you´ll see "superior double or twin with Alhambra view". When you select this room, you'll see all the amenities, including room size, 30 square meters. You'll also see a rating for the comfort of the beds, 9.1.

Baeza is a short bus ride from Ubeda, if you have time, it's beautiful! Some photos:
https://slowtravelitalyspain.blogspo...and-ubeda.html

Thanks so much for all the suggestions on hotels.

Now I am off to figure out Ronda, Cadiz, and Cordoba lodging. Any suggestions would be great.

Here are some hotel suggestions (I know these)

Còrdoba
luxury--Palacio de Bailío
upper moderate--Balcón de Córdoba
moderate--Casas de la Judería

Cádiz
deluxe--modern Parador in room facing the bay
former mansion-turned-hotel--Casa Cánovas
little palace-turned-hotel with indoor pool--Áurea Casa Palacio Sagasta
deluxe apartment suites--Candelario 10 or Plaza Mina Suites

Ronda
deluxe--Catalonia Reina Victoria w/indoor pool, in a room with balcony and gorgeous views
upper moderate-in Parador (not my fav. Parador) but in their best room, 219 with 2 balconies overlooking the gorge, w/pool
upper moderate--Catalonia Ronda, with pool overlooking the bullring (but these last 2 pools are seasonal; won't be open in April)
moderate--Soho Boutique Palacio San Gabriel in the evocative, whitewashed, Old Quarter, "La Ciudad"
sweet little, 4 room B&B with fab breakfasts: Aire

Maribel,
Thank you for those suggestions. I should mention that this trip is now scheduled from September 25 to Oct 16th. I am hoping this time period will give us cool enough weather and still enough daylight hours to enjoy to the fullest.

Thanks again for all the help from you and this wonderful forum.

That's a very nice time to be in southern Spain, when it finally gets cooler (we hope!)

I highly recommend Casas de la Juderia in Cordoba. It's in an excellent location, within walking distance to almost everything. Our room was spacious, and we had a good-sized marble bathroom. On the street level there is a lovely courtyard where the hotel provides an honor bar. We were traveling with another couple, and we would meet them there each night for a drink before we went out for dinner.

I'm not sure what's going on in Cordoba, but finding many hotels with no availability for my dates in Oct, or a minimum stay of 4 nights.
I have found a few to consider at reasonable rates.
NH Hotel Amistad
Eurostars Patio Cordoba,
Eurostars Azahar
Marcia Alfaros, but it seems to have many bad reviews.

Any thoughts on the above mentioned ones?

We stayed at Eurostars Patio Cordoba in November. It is a really nice hotel. Huge room. very comfortable. It is a little bit of a walk to main attractions, but not far.I would stay there again.