Feedback for Northern Spain itinerary
 

We will be in Northern Spain (flying in and out from Bilbao) for 12 days, during the second half of September 2020. We are a couple in our lower 70s and like a combination of sightseeing in old towns, museums and architecture, festivals and local markets; we love nature and nice vistas. While we are no longer hikers, we love easy walks. We don’t like to sit for hours on a beach, just have a walk and admire the scenery and surroundings. We are not into wine tasting; we would like a “taste” of everything else I mentioned above, but without trying to run around to be able to say that "we have seen it all”. We like to taste local food but eating doesn’t drive our destination. We will rent a car, to allow us to move easily from place to place, but without spending the day driving.
We would like to include one mountainous area if it makes sense, maybe the Navarrean Pyrenees (Auritz, Roncal, etc.) OR parts of Picos de Europa. The later seems to be easier to integrate. We would like to avoid one lane, difficult roads (lots of hairpin turns).
Ideally we would love to stay in a max of 3-4 places during our trip, do a roundtrip if possible, with day trips from the places where we will stay. We would like to avoid backtracking as much as possible and include as many local specific attractions as possible.
I looked at regions in the North and there is a LOT to see. We will not be able to see everything that appears to be interesting for us. Obviously we have to also take into account the weather in September.

Based on high level info I gathered, I came up with some potential itineraries, listed below. Locations in parentheses might be optional. Based on Google’s estimates it appears that both tentative itineraries STARTING on DAY 4 would require an average of 2-3 h driving/day if everything was included as listed OR about 1h 45 min - 2 h without the “optional” locations.

I’d appreciate your feedback and suggestions regarding the itineraries, what to take out/replace, locations for the night stop-overs, what to include in each day starting with Day 4. Thanks in advance.

Itinerary 1

Day 1 - Bilbao
Day 2 - Bilbao, maybe a drive to Lekeitio or Mundaka
Day 3 - day trip to San Sebastian; probably could not include Hondarribia
Day 4 - start the roundtrip (9 days)
Bilbao- Vitoria- Pamplona-Olite- (Bardenas Reales)- Logrono-Laguardia - Santo Domingo de la Calzada- (San Milan de la Cogolia) - Burgos- Leon- (Astorga) - Riano - Oviedo- Cangas de Onis- Cabrales- (Poncebos) - Comillas- Santilana del mar- Santander - Laredo - Castro Urdiales - Bilbao.

Itinerary 2

Day 1 - Bilbao
Day 2 - Bilbao, maybe a drive to Lekeitio or Mundaka
Day 3 - day trip to San Sebastian; probably could not include Hondarribia
Day 4 - start the roundtrip (9 days)

Bilbao- Vitoria- Pamplona-Olite- (Bardenas Reales)- Logrodo-Laguardia - Santo Domingo de la Calzada- (San Milan de la Cogolia) - Burgos- Leon- (Astorga) - Riano - Cangas de Onis- Bulnes- Fuente De- Potes- Lebena- La Hermida- Santander- Laredo - Castro Urdiales - Bilbao.

I am sure that many more variations could exist, but one has to start someplace. Many places on these itineraries probably deserve days - which we don’t have. So we probably will need to cut out some of the listed locations. I don’t know which ones.

The above might be overly ambitious. Also I do not know which places on these itineraries would be the best ones for night stops. We would like to stay in locations that are not very expensive, places that have parking and would allow us to have a good night sleep, but we are not looking for hostels.

Thanks again.

It really depends on what you want to see and experience, but I would have found either of your "round trips" overly ambitious -- and I travel HARD! I didn't see all the places you mention, but I did visit many of them. If you haven't seen it, you might get some ideas from my trip report:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...lunya-1047395/

BTW, I haven't been to the Navarrean Pyrenees, but thought the Picos de Europa absolutely stunning. :)

Good luck with your planning!

Thanks a lot, kja.

I read your trip report. The report is amazing. I don't know how you were able to pack so much in your days. Thanks for posting links that helped you.

If you don't mind:
- how can one easily find the threads for your trip preparation
- was parking an issue in most places including the hotels where you stayed
- was the driving in Picos de Europa "scary" (lots of narrow roads, with many switchbacks and impatient drivers, etc.)?

I am not yet sure how/what to cut out ....

I had an amazing trip, and hope my report proves helpful. I do pack a lot in -- which is why I'm inclined to think that your plan could be overly ambitious.

You can find my trip preparation threads by clicking on my screen name, but you'd have to go back a ways. Here they are:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...015-a-1030250/
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...lunya-1033471/
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...ostia-1036557/
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...ribia-1043889/

I had made sure to arrange parking before traveling in the area, usually with my hotel, and I had researched parking options for any day trips I took. I don't remember problems actually finding parking, but if IIRC, parking was expensive in San Sebastian / Donostia.

IIRC, driving from Cangas de Onís to the Lakes of Covadonga in the Pecos de Europa involved some very narrow switchbacks -- but surprisingly easy traffic, as everyone who was on the road was going to those lakes and was very patient. (I remember horrid traffic around Cangas de Onis, though -- IIRC, it took a ridiculously long time to drive the few blocks just in town.) IIRC the drive from Leon to Oviedo was challenging -- narrow, twisting roads too steep for the wimpy car I was driving, with impatient drivers (and scared cyclists!) frequently catching up with me. And I recall a bit of that in the parts of the Pyrenees I visited, and I think maybe there were some challenges in the roads to Cuevas Las Monedas and El Castillo of Monte Castillo (but fortunately, there wasn't much traffic on those particular roads). My recollection of most of the roads in the areas you are considering is that they were pleasant, scenic, and generally easy to drive -- although I ran into enough showers (it's green for a reason!) that reducing speed was often appropriate. That said, it's been a while and those aren't necessarily the things I remember.

The area has a lot to offer, so I can certainly understand that cutting will be difficult -- I had difficulty cutting enough to come up with a fast-paced itinerary that involved fewer places for more time. I think you just have to learn what you can and decide on your priorities. Do you have the Michelin Green Guides for these regions? I found them invaluable. Good luck!

This is a third time I am typing this message (no auto-saved one)... So I will be quick to say thank you again (before the website throws me out again). I will read all your exchanges and hope to learn from them. The hardest part for planning a trip for me is to come up with an itinerary. But in the end it all works out. I have travel guides from the library and I just ordered the Michelin one you suggested.

What does IIRC stand for?

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.

Thanks!

Susana,
Just some comments:
Both your loop itineraries seem quite ambitious to me as well since it covers 9 separate provinces in 9 days. I've actually been to and like all of the places on your list, but it's taken me many years. :) You may need a bit of admittedly very difficult culling. The monument-filled Burgos & León both deserve a couple of overnights, and I would say Oviedo as well with its wealth of pre-Romanesque churches in the surrounding area.

You may want to consider limiting your 9-day loop to 2 contiguous regions: either Basque Country + Cantabria or Basque Country + Rioja (it offers more than just wine..stunning scenery, beautiful mountain drives, monasteries, abbeys, dolmens, an Iron Age site) or Basque Country + Navarra.

Day 2 from Bilbao:
I might take a loop drive through the UNESCO World Heritage Urdaibai Nature Reserve through Gernika, the spiritual home of the Basques, for a stop to visit the excellent Peace Museum (narrating the April 26, 1937 bombing) and/or the Casa de Juntas (oldest surviving Parliament building in the world). Then since the Oma Painted Forest is temporarily closed, go north to the coast to surfing Mundaka, the former whaling port of Bermeo (perhaps a stop at the whaling museum there), drive past San Juan de Gaztelugatxe for the views of it from the road (now terribly busy due to its Game of Thrones fame) and then head south through the Uribe. Then perhaps over west past the Butrón castle to the beach of Sopelana then south back to Bilbao. You may have time to stop in Las Arenas to see the unique Puente Vizcaya hanging bridge across the estuary to Portugalete. But that's makes for a very full day.

But... since you're a museum/architecture lover, you could spend that full day in Bilbao itself visiting the Guggenheim (special Kandinsky exhibit in Sept), the unsung but wonderful Museum of Fine Arts and the Basque Museum to learn more about Basque culture/history and take a boat ride out to Portugalete or the metro out to Las Arenas to see the suspension bridge.

Day 3 from Bilbao: I wouldn't try to include Hondarribia but instead concentrate on a full day in San Sebastián (but International Film Festival takes place there Sept. 18-26; the city will be packed). The city offers some lovely walks/easy all around town. Least expensive underground garage parking there: Txofre (just follow the signs as you enter the city)

Re Navarra Pyrenees versus Picos de Europe: I've spent considerable time in both (Roncal, Roncesvalles, Auritz in Navarra and Cangas/Covadonga, Potes/ Fuente Dé in Picos). For me, there's just no comparison in sheer, jaw dropping beauty: Picos de Europa is far more spectacular, dramatic, to my eyes. But I don't think you'll have time to do both the Asturias and Cantabrian Picos with all the rest that you want to see.
It's very time consuming to get down to Fuente Dé through the winding and narrow Desfiladero de la Hermida pass to the Liébana valley and once there, you'll want to stay for a couple of nights to soak up all that it offers.
I would choose one Picos location: either Cangas/Covandonga/Lakes/Cabrales on the Asturian side or Potes/Fuente Déon the Cantabrian side. On the Cangas side, you'll have the funicular up to Bulnes but don't go if it's a rainy day.

You may not want to include this....but if you plan to include the Ruta del Cares trek (La Garganta Divina) from Caín (León) to Poncebos (Asturias) and back, it's not too strenuous in most parts, except at the end, climbing out of the gorge up to Poncebos. But it will take the entire day unless you hire a taxi to take you to Caín and pick you up in Poncebos or vice versa (there are plenty of services that will do this).
On the Potes, Cantabria side you'll need to get up early to avoid the long lines for the cable car up to the top of Fuente Dé. These stunning mountain excursions just take lots of time.

Ditto to what kja has told you about the drive up to the lakes of Enol & Ercina in Picos de Europa. Very, very slow, narrow, lots of switchbacks and a bit "white knuckle" if you happen to meet a large tour bus coming down (yipes!) when you're heading up! But you do have another option now-- take the bus from Cangas or Covadonga up to the lakes if it's a bank holiday (1st departure in Sept. at 9 am) or take a taxi. There are lots of walking trails up there, but they can be muddy.
Attachment 3486


For your Northern Spain journey you may find the green zoom Michelin maps 144 (Basque/Navarran Pyrenees), 143 (Cantabrian coast) and 142 (Asturias/Green coast) to be your new best friends, along with the Michelin green guide. You can then get a better idea of driving distances and types of roads. Driving distances can be very deceptive in Northern Spain, and the many cyclists on the road make it often slow driving.

About lodging & parking: you may want to look at these moderately priced hotel groups that we regularly use for our Northern Spain travel: Casonas Asturianas, Club de Calidad Cantabria Infinita (manor homes and former palaces in both groups), Ruralka, Rusticae, Secret Places, i-escape (for Basque Country/Asturias). There will be overlap among these.

Also the Paradors offer a Golden Age sr. rate or their more unbeatable "Best Available Web" rate--sign up for the free Amigos program and receive a free buffet breakfast on your first day and welcome drink at each Parador. The Paradors always run specials (Amigos receive their weekly e-newsletter) and they have plenty of free parking.
Paradors in Santillana (2), Cangas de Onís, Olite, Santo Domingo de la Calzada (2), Fuente Dé. One of the jewels in the crown, Parador de San Marcos in León is closed for renovation.

Hope this helps you to decide!

Maribel, thanks a LOT for taking this much time for the very useful and practical advise. I have to "digest" it together with the wealth of information I am gathering from the many links provided by kja. Probably I would need many months to actually see (in an enjoyable way) everything I listed.... Knowing that this will be (unfortunately) the only trip to this part of the world, I have to be really "picky". I had this same sinking feeling last year when I started planning for Japan. Information and choice "overflow" can be paralyzing. But I know I will figure it out, especially with so much handholding. On some level, I seem to have similar interests with kja and I also plan with a lot of details, so her links (and the ones included in her threads) are very helpful. If have more questions as I try to figure out the itinerary, I will get back to this thread. In the meantime however, If there are other suggestions for what to cut out (if there are "overlaps"), please let me know.

Happy holiday preparations and thanks again.

Maribel has (of course!) given you some great information.

FWIW: I know that paralyzing feeling you are describing, or at least something like it -- there's so much I would like to see -- WAY more than I'll ever be able to see in my life time! -- and whatever the time I have, it's never enough. :( For me -- and maybe JUST me -- I sometimes get so caught up in what I'm going to have to skip that I lose sight of all the wonderful things I will see. I often (not always) find that that realization can help me return to the list of things I might cut with much greater equanimity and clarity, so I keep it written down beside my desk. And I try to keep travel times firmly in my mind. Sometimes, the scenic value is enough for me to consider traveling long-ish distances, but as a rule, I hate losing time on my trips to unnecessary time in transit, and so find identifying the core that most meets my interests very useful in helping exclude some of the places that are further afield. Too, sometimes just getting away from the planning can help. Just some ideas....

A big ditto to what kja has said---itinerary planning can sometimes be overwhelming, especially with so many wonderful options in (very, very large) Northern Spain. It can easily become "planning overload".
I would suggest that you digest the indespensible Michelin green guide and also, more specifically, the DK Eyewitness guide: Northern Spain, to help you prioritize.
But what ever you decide, it's all wonderful, IMO!

Thanks for the encouragement.

On a different note, I have to stop using for a while the website. I notified Fodor's about the problems I am experiencing and asked them to investigate. I could not understand why every time I spend more time on the website I am thrown out. I am mentioning this just in case you might also get these pop-ups. Don't download and install!

Here is what happened:

I started using Fodor’s Forum yesterday. Ever since I have been getting the fake flash player update virus pop-ups. I did not download or install anything as I realized that this is not an update from Adobe. But the pop-ups keep disrupting me. They appear when I go to Fodor’s Forum and throw me out of the website. This happened multiple times. I have a suspicion that this has to do with Fodor's website.

I have done a lot of research on the web and I ran the Matwarebytes program and I also have Norton. Both of them tell me that my computer is clean.

Malwarebytes has a tutorial on the topic (https://malwaretips.com/blogs/remove...player-update/) and it states:

"You are seeing the “Update Flash Player” pop-up ads because you are either infected with adware or another web site is redirecting you to them.”

Thanks for sharing what you learned, Suzanna! Hope your problems are now / will soon be resolved.

Since I can be on the website only for short times (until the problem is resolved somehow),do you know of a way to get a "clean" printout for a thread? Unless I missed it, I didn't see a print function associated with a thread and normal printing creates kind of a mess (and a waste of paper and toner). I would like to read "off line" the threads, if possible. Thanks.

Not I!
Maybe download it and then edit to something more amenable to printing?

Thanks, for me unfortunately the website is not usable.

I just got a reply from Fodor's system staff: "We are aware of this issue and hope to have a solution early in the new year. We apologize for the inconvenience."....

In the meantime, I hope that you all have virus protection, as the attack can be quite dangerous.

Happy Holidays and thank you all for the help I got to-date!

There are a couple of threads about this on the Help forum . . .

https://www.fodors.com/community/for...-scam-1675030/
https://www.fodors.com/community/for...posts-1674981/

Apparently they are 'working on it' -- happens to me several times a day but I just close the page and resume where I was (I've learned to copy most posts every few sentences so I don't lose everything)

Thanks, at least I know that it is not "my problem". I was wondering how come only I experience it. There is a little bit more to it than just the annoying pop-ups. If you don't have Norton or something similar, it can infect your computer even if you close the tab.

I asked the Admin re. way to Print a Thread. As it turns out, at the top of the Thread there is a drop down box with an option for Show Printable Version.

Now at least I can print and will be able to read your many very helpful replies and kja’s old but very useful threads.

Until the website issue is fixed, I am creating a reply before I go to the website and then quickly copy/past before I am thrown out. Luckily Norton protects me from the malicious attack.

Hopefully you'll get the problem resolved.

Here's the link to my trip report to the areas you are considering, I think it will have some useful information in it. https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...rance-1476103/

Here is the same report with photos on my blog site - you don't get the fodorite comments but in some ways it's easier to read (especially if you are having trouble with fodors site)

Thanks a lot Isabel! As soon as this website allows me, I will print your thread. Right now even typing “thank you” is impossible…. I just hope that this really annoying issue will be fixed soon. It might impact only Mac users, I don’t know, since it appears that it “selective”… I hope that copy/paste takes before I am again thrown out.

kja, I started reading your old threads that I was able to print out this morning. I wanted to send you a private message but that capability is not enabled for you. So I will send you the “private” message as part of this thread. Just wanted to let you know that as I am reading your threads I am learning a LOT not only about your trip details, but also from your approach. I am amazed by your stamina, drive, tenacity, focus, diplomacy. There is always something new to learn.

Sounds like you are making progress with your frustrating computer problems! :yay:

Thank you for your kind words! I consider myself fortunate to have found a style of travel that works for me and that gives me many rewards. I think one of the challenges of travel is matching one's interests to one's preferences for pace and energy and focus (etc.), and I think all of those are very personal things. Too, they are things that might change over time or due to circumstance. If my words help you find a match that works for you, that would be wonderful!

I agree, kja. Isabel & kja, with a lot of patience I managed to print all your relevant links. Lucky you that you had so many days.

We will have our grandkids as of tomorrow until the 6th of Jan, so I will not have time to pursue. But after that I will read what I printed.

Happy New Year to all of you!

And to you! :) :wine:

Happy New Year! I will do a quick copy/paste, as the infection was still not removed from the Fodor’s server.

After taking a break from planning, I am trying to do suggested (painful) cuts from my overly ambitious initial plan. We will have (almost) 14 days. As a reminder, I am trying to avoid as much as possible one night sleeps, being on the road a large part of the day, difficult drives and backtracking. I could not decide which option listed for Day 11 would be better. As soon as I have the itinerary finalized, I will make reservations at the Parador in Fuente De. Your comments and suggestions for the revised itinerary would be much appreciated.

Day 1, Sept 14, Mon- late afternoon arrival in Bilbao;

Day 2, Sept 15, Tue- day trip to San Sebastian (before the film festival starts on the 18th);

Day 3, Sept 16, Wed - Bilbao;

Day 4, Sept 17, Thu- day trip to Hondarribia;

Day 5, Sept 18, Fri - Bilbao;

Day 6, Sept 19, Sat - to Santillana del Mar, with stops along the way;

Day 7, Sept 20, Sun - Santillana del Mar in the morning, Ribadisella in the afternoon;

Day 8, Sept 21, Mon - Santillana del Mar to Potes and then to Fuente De;

Day 9, Sept 22, Tue - Fuente De and surroundings;

Day 10, Sept 23, Wed - Fuente De and surroundings;

Day 11, Sept 24, Thu - Fuente De-Potes-Reinosa;

option a- Reinosa-Aquilar de Campo- Burgos;
option b- Reinosa-Orbaneja del Castillo- Burgos;

Day 12, Sept 25, Fri - Burgos- LaGuardia- Vitoria-Gasteiz;

Day 14, Sept 27, Sun drive from Vitoria to Bilbao; flight out of Bilbao at 12 noon.

The above would mean 5 nights in Bilbao, 2 in Santillana del Mar, 3 in Fuente De, 1 in Burgos and 1 in Vitoria.
I do not know if 3 nights in Fuente would be too much or not, taking into consideration the time of the year (weather?) and the fact that we are just easy walkers, not hikers.

Should be nice!

You might consider shifting a night from Fuente De to Burgos -- I'm not sure you need 3 nights in Fuente De (as you already suggested), and think you might want a bit more time in Burgos, particularly as you are going to try to visit LaGuardia after leaving it. As a bonus, that change would cut down on your one-night stays. But it really depends on what you want to do in these places.

I wasn't enamored of Hondarribia, although many Fodorites loved it; I'd be inclined to visit one or more of the other places along the coast -- but that's just me.

Thanks kja for your quick reply. I start to feel better about the itinerary.

I will spend a bit more time to “look around” Fuente De and probably take a night away from there.

If not Hondarribia (which I have to read some more about) what else would include in this itinerary?

Any comments re. option a vs. option b for Day 11?

OOPS! I just noticed a copy/paste error (from an unfinished version). I left out Day 13.

So Day 12 is Burgos, Day 13 is Burgos-Laguardia-Vitoria, this meaning 2 nights in Burgos (even before making the change for Fuente De. Is Burgos or Vitoria “worth” one more night, or any other place where we would be sleeping already?

As alternatives to Hondarribia, I enjoyed Lekeitio and Castro Urdailes (on different sides of Bilbao), but you have a wealth of options.

I can't help with your options for day 11 (or is that actually day 12? I'm confused!) -- I haven't been to those locations.

If you are going to stop in Burgos, I would think you would want to make sure you have at least part of a day, if not a full day, to see it's sites. Same with Vitoria. From the plan you laid out, it looks like you get to these locations in time for dinner, only to leave just after breakfast -- which makes me think I'm probably misreading your itinerary. I can't tell you which ones are the ones where YOU will want to have more time -- that depends on what you want to see and experience while visiting each of these places.

Thanks kja. Here is the cleaner, modified version. It's getting there.

Day 1, Sept 14, Mon- late afternoon arrival in Bilbao;

Day 2, Sept 15, Tue- day trip to San Sebastian (before the film festival starts on the 18th);

Day 3, Sept 16, Wed - Bilbao;

Day 4, Sept 17, Thu- day trip to Hondarribia OR Lekeitio OR Castro Urdailes OR other

Day 5, Sept 18, Fri - Bilbao;

Day 6, Sept 19, Sat - to Santillana del Mar, with stops along the way;

Day 7, Sept 20, Sun - Santillana del Mar in the morning, Ribadisella in the afternoon;

Day 8, Sept 21, Mon - Santillana del Mar to Potes and then to Fuente De;

Day 9, Sept 22, Tue - Fuente De and surroundings;

Day 10, Sept 23, Wed - Fuente De-Potes-Reinosa;
option a- Reinosa-Aquilar de Campo- Burgos;
option b- Reinosa-Orbaneja del Castillo- Burgos

Day 11, Sept 24, Thu - Burgos-

Day 12, Sept 25, Fri - Burgos- LaGuardia- Vitoria-Gasteiz

Day 13, Sept 26, Sat - Vitoria

Day 14, Sept 27, Sun drive from Vitoria to Bilbao; flight out of Bilbao at 12 noon.

The above would mean 5 nights in Bilbao, 2 in Santillana del Mar, 2 in Fuente De, 2 in Burgos and 2 in Vitoria.

I´ll be commenting on what I know best, Basque Country and Cantabria:

Day 4, Sept 17, Forget Castro Urdiales, not worth it. Get on the coastal road to San Juan de Gaztelugatxe, Bermeo, Mundaka, Gernika (see the Casa de Juntas and the Tree of Gernika, so sacred to us Basques) Ea, Elantxobe, Lekeitio and back to Bilbao. On the way to San Juan, stop at the castle of Butrón, really worth it.

Day 5, Sept 18, Fri - Bilbao; Take the metro to Getxo and the old fishing port, the hanging bridge or Puente Bizkaia, and then on to Plentzia.

Day 6, Sept 19, Sat - to Santillana del Mar, with stops along the way; not much to see on the way there, maybe Santander. Comillas and the Gaudi Capricho is a must.

Day 12, Sept 25, Fri - Burgos- Laguardia- Vitoria-Gasteiz In Laguardia (not LaGuardia) try to visit some wine cellars, from 15th century and still producing wine, or the many wineries in the Rioja Alavesa area. In Vitoria-Gasteiz, the capital of the BAsque Country, don´t miss the visit to the espectacular reconstruction of a 12th century cathedral, https://www.catedralvitoria.eus/en/home/, really worth it, and the many palaces in the central almond.

Day 13, Sept 26, Sat - Vitoria Maybe too much two days there, but if possible, don´t miss a visit to the Salt Valley, fantastic place where they´ve been producing salt for 6000 years. Need to book a visit in English, https://www.vallesalado.com/SALT-VALLEY-HOME. If not, the towns on the Gorbeia natural park are worth a visit.

Thanks, mikelg. I will investigate each of your suggestions.

I don't normally disagree with mikelg, who is an expert on the area, but I must admit that I don't see how you could meaningfully fit all these places into the plan you have, and FWIW:

Interesting comment, mikelg, since you once told me Castro Urdiales was a "must"-- not to mention that I enjoyed it.
See post # 15.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...ostia-1036557/

Ditto to what mikelg, a local, has told you about a day trip near Bilbao on day 4. His loop, of all your options, I think, will be the most enriching/interesting (we've taken it, thanks to him). Ditto to day 5, to see the Hanging Bridge.

Your itinerary as kja notes seems still, to me, quite ambitious with lots of driving.

On day 6, a detour to Santander will be. very time consuming, as the traffic getting into the city, past the industrial suburbs, can be heavy and confusing. Because of the Great Fire of 1941 fire, downtown Santander lost much of its historic district The most beautiful section of the city actually comes at the very end, at the Belle Epoque El Sardinero neighborhood with its expansive beaches and Magdalena Palace, but it will be very similar to the look of San Sebastián, kind of a repeat. I like Santander very much, but when I have an overnight or two to explore it fully.
From Santillana I would do as mikelg suggests, and continue on the Comillas or hit it the next day. The drive there via the CA 131 is quite scenic, and in Comillas you have Gaudí's El Capricho and other flamboyant Moderniste architecture.

Day 7-Santillana Del Mar in morning (neo caves) to Ribadesella in the afternoon--very ambitious
There are so many great stops along the way off the fast A-8, so to see many of them makes for a very, very full day:
The highlights of the excursion;
San Vicente de la Barquera, the very interesting Indiano Museum in Colombres that traces the history of Cantabrian "Indiano" immigration to the Americas, Puertas de Vidiago for its bufones (the seawater geysers), cute Andrín with its very colorful houses ("prettiest village in Asturias"), Llanes and its Ibarrola-designed Cubos de la Memoria at the pier, the amazing Palaeolithic caves & World Heritage Site of Tito Bustillo outside of Ribadesella, which can be visited until Nov 1 via prior reservation... for me, visiting the actual Tito Bustillo caves were a far, far more memorable & special experience than the visit to Santillana's replica caves.
COMPRA ENTRADAS | Centro de Arte Rupestre Tito Bustillo
Another Palaeolithic cave on that route: Cueva del Pindal that can be visited Wed-Sun only and only in groups of 20, 6 visits a day, so it's quite tricky to fit it into a long Santillana-Ribadesella excursion.

Day 8 -on your way from Santillana Del Mar, after driving through the very narrow & twisting Desfiladero de la Hermida, before Potes, you can stop at the Mozarabic church of Santa María de Lebeña.

The Fuente Dé Parador is a handy place to stay as it's right next to the funicular, so folks can get an early start right after breakfast to avoid the long lines to catch the trip up to the summit, and lines can be extremely long. The charming Mesón del Oso is a delightful place to have the valley's signature and hearty dish, cocido lebaniego (with adorable St Bernards to welcome the guests as an added attraction). We've stayed at both. And the stone mountain town of Potes is very attractive. Market day there is Monday. Be sure to sample the local cheeses, the quesucos.

Day 10-the drive from end-of-the-road Fuente Dé to Potes to Reinosa to Aguilar de Campoo to Burgos with a few stops, can easily take up to 4 hours. The best, as in easiest, route would actually be to go back north to the A-8 at Torrelavega then down the national highway 611 to Reinosa-Aguilar de Campoo then down the 627 to Burgos. But again, a longish drive.

Day 12-We spend lots of time in the Rioja Alavesa, and if you're interested in soaking up the spectacular September vineyard scenery, you might want to consider as your 2-night base the medieval walled Bastide village of Laguardia rather than in Vitoria, especially if you want to do any wine touring or visit the excellent Museo Dinastía Vivanco in the pretty stone village of Briones. But you do have a lovely and relaxing Parador de Argomaniz just outside of Vitoria, housed in a beautiful mansion, if you'd like another Parador stay. In Vitoria we've stayed at the NH Canciller Ayala right at pretty Florida park.

Just some additional thoughts...

Thanks, Maribel for taking the time to provide feedback regarding my revised itinerary. Based on additional reading and your comments, Santander is left out. I didn’t know about Gaudi’s El Capricho (didn’t yet have time to get into all the details), but this definitely sounds very appealing.

I am not a “cave person”, I have trouble in places which are not paved (foot problems)… I don’t know yet anything about any of the interesting sounding caves. Are there any on the way that have paved “trails” inside and are well lit? Any with lots of stalactites and stalagmites in addition to the Palaeolithic ones?

I am inclined to re-think Ribadesella but I have to investigate some more.

About how many km is the very narrow & twisting Desfiladero de la Hermida stretch, before Potes?

Are the lines for the funicular long even during the second half of September?

Point well taken re. better way to get to Reinosa and Burgos. This might be the longest drive for a day regardless based on what you mentioned.

The only frustrating issue is that there are too many good and enticing options, too much to see…. Something still has to give.

With all due respect, Suzanna, I think it's becoming quite clear that you haven't gotten into the details, and ultimately, that's the only way I know to make decisions about that frustrating choices of what to include and what to skip.

I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time no matter what you choose. Good luck!

Suzanna,
The easy cave visit will be to the Altamira cave replica, which is tailor made for tourists. I was extremely lucky to visit the original caves with my art history professor the very year they were closed to visits, so my opinion of the replica is tainted, but most folks who haven't had the fortune to have seen the original caves will be pleased (but they're not as impressive, imo, as Lascaux II).

The very narrow and twisting pass, the Desfiladero de la Hermida, is 21 kilometers long, very slow going with no passing lanes.

I've been up to the summit of Fuente Dé in early November, and yes, the lines can be long. We managed just fine by staying at the Parador next door and were the first in line because we knew to do that, having stayed at the Parador on 3 separate vacations.

Yes, you're very right----something still has to give, unfortunately. Just more thoughts...

kja, you are absolutely right. But my approach is to have first a high level itinerary and then get into all the details that will allow me to make decisions about where to stop, what exactly to visit in each place, etc. If I don't do that, I feel that I am drowning in details that in the beginning might not be useful but can be stifling. If I have a set itinerary based on enough information, I can reserve accommodations and then take care of the rest. We all have our ways of dealing with the unknown: top down, bottom up gathering and digesting the information, etc. You have no way of knowing that, but I am a very detail oriented person. For my 1 month trip to Japan a 120 page document (together with a spreadsheet) provided all the needed details for each day and we had an incredible time there. Everything worked “by the book”. I am confident that with the help I got until now on this Forum, by reading trip reports and some of the guide books, I am making the right decisions. Regardless how much one knows, it is still frustrating to have to drop options that might be of interest, but just don’t “fit”…. So thanks for the help to-date.


Maribel, I appreciate the clarifications and additional info.

IME, starting with a "high level" itinerary can work well when planning a trip to places that involve long-ish stays, like Kyoto and Tokyo in Japan. A high level approach has never worked well for me when planning a trip in an area that involves a lot of places where one will likely want to spend 2 or 3 days (or less) per location, nor have I seen it work well for similar short-stay places in the 13+ years during which I have been following this forum. That said, we all plan differently and with different goals, and I'm sure I don't know what planning strategies have worked well for most of the people who go to this part of Spain, or anywhere else, for that matter.

Again, IME, reserving lodgings can give a sense of freedom if I want at least a backup for my plans, but only if those reservations can be cancelled, free of charge, until after I have filled in the details of my plan. I would never PLAN a trip around such advance reservations. It saddens me to repeatedly find people asking for help with their itineraries that are "fixed" by non-cancellable lodging reservations that they are unwilling to view as sunk costs. JMO.

And I do understand that the details can be difficult to manage. I just think you need to get into them for this particular trip sooner rather than later. Too, I think you would get better, more informative, and more helpful input if you would be clear about what research you have and have not done when you call upon us to provide input. I could be wrong.

Again, I'm sure you'll have a great trip.

Kja, you´re right...Castro Urdiales was, on that itinerary, a place for a stop. But (and I go there often to visit my best friend who lives there) it has recently become impossible for parking (moreover in spring and summer), now that they have regulated parking all over town and at all times, there´s summer residences all over the place and I have to admit that the town has lost all interest to me. From a cozy fishing town, it has turned in a few years into an apartment kingdom. I admit that the old alleys and the bars there still offer a great atmosphere, but parking is so complicated in the center that it´s a nightmare now.

For this itinerary, so full, I think it can be ignored. Wow at your memory about my recommendations!!!