Europe in late July
 

I'm planning my holiday for next year, I'm thinking a week in Europe. Question is: which country / city? I want the holiday to coincide with my birthday which is (unfortunately / fortunately) in the last week of July. 'Unfortunately' because I understand it is in the high season (expensive + crowded), 'fortunately' because it's summer and there can be a lot of activities to do / sights to see.

I don't like crowds. I went to Italy last May and didn't like the crowds in downtown Florence (but further up and away at Piazzale Michelangelo it was better because there were less people). The rest of the holiday I spent in smaller towns such as Pisa, Lucca, Pontedera, Peccioli, and Carrara, all of which were better suited for my taste.

I also prefer to explore the city on foot so cities with good public transportation and safety records are preferred. I am not ambitious and are more than happy to stay in one place and really experience the surroundings. I'm not much for shopping / nightlife and prefer relaxing activities, something cultural / to do with nature.

Any ideas? Thanks! =)

Late July might be pretty hot and humid in many areas. Keep that in mind when you make your decisions; I still remember Salsburg in early August, like a sauna.

Yes, the temperature is another consideration. I actually considered going to Morocco but with my birthday being in late July it is out of the question.

But just how hot could it get? I've been living in Singapore for the past 8 years, probably the hottest + most humid country in the world so I don't get rattled easily by hot weather.

I actually already have a couple of ideas in mind but I thought I'd wait for all your suggestions first. One of them is Vienna, as Dominik suggested. The other is Switzerland though not sure yet which part of Switzerland. With the alps and everything, I figured the weather would still be quite pleasant in late July.

July would be great in Northern Germany, Denmark, Sweden or even Central Germany.

Care to elaborate, bilboburgler? How about Croatia?

You have so many options. In July you can go everywhere in Europe. You must specify a bit more want you want.

Here just a few thoughts:

Croatia. I returned just two weeks ago from a trip which led me to Croatia (and Italy, Greece and Turkey). Croatia is a popular summer destination for Europeans, so expect mass tourism in the beach towns in July. Dubrovnik will have four cruise ships in the port (each day in July), so expect to feel like in a sardine can if you stroll through town. The lakes of Plitvice will be beautiful.

Switzerland. The country has lots to offer - mountains, quaint towns, art museums, hiking trails, lakes, monasteries and castles etc. It seldom gets hot and if, you drive just up into the mountains and roll in the snow. My favourite (smallish) town is Luzern. It has a beautiful Old Town, a scenic lake that reaches fjordlike into the mountains, an impressive mountain (Pilatus) with excellent access (tramways) right at the door and good railway connections. You can do daytrip to the Jungfrau (one of the most impressive mountains in the Alps), to Einsiedeln Monastery, to Bern (art museums, Old Town) and Zürich (Old Town).

But there is so much more. What about Scotland? Norway? The German Alps with all these castles in the foothills? Quaint picturesque towns in Germany like Monschau and Aachen? The Rhine Valley with castles, vineyards and wine villages?

Just dream a bit and tell us more about your dreams. We give you the places then.

Croatia and the whole Dalmatian coast is lovely but pretty full in July. Island hoping is the best followed by wandering in the hills and finally sale-cruising. The coastal small cities are very pleasant but can be ruined by large ships and their mouse eared, fat inhabitants. I've been a few occasions at different times of the year and May June is a nicer time to go.

Of the areas I mention the inhabitants are basically on holiday in your dates, while some stay in-country vast numbers head to Italy and Spain for their holidays so leaving the country relatively un-crowded. Hence, when I holiday in July or August I go here.

The main cities in these areas are pretty good, clean while the countryside is often ignored by foreigners.

I especially like the Mosel valley but you will also find that the Elbe, and the Rhine in Alsace is really wonderful.

I tend to enjoy bicycling holidays on flat bike paths with little traffic but I can especially recommend Alsace/Mosel/Pfalz as areas of fine food, architecture and wine.

Coming south from the countries I mention you tend to look at France, Italy and Spain. All three tend to have a large proportion of holidays in this period and they stay in-country (I know mature Frenchmen who have never holidayed out of France) so the place gets very busy.

Switzerland, I have to go here in the summer every couple of years to see family, and much as I love them the place is expensive, and while the countryside is great the cities are basically meh. Austria is a bit better as at least prices make sense, don't ignore Slovenia either if you like the odd mountain but tends towards busy.

Inhabitants of Sweden and Denmark might be on holiday during June and July but that does not mean Copenhagen and Stockholm are quiet. It is peak holiday season for others visiting those countries, having said that you will not get the crowds of the Med and it is easy enough to find a quiet spot esp in Swedish countryside.

Hello

Paris is relatively empty in july.
Lots of foreigners (but there are always foreigner in Paris) and nearly no Frenchs after 15 of july. Absolutely none after 1st of Aug.

Basically avoid any place with sun, sea or access to water, we are all there with our kids in july/august.

mvg

If you don;t mind the cost I think that Scandinavia is great at that time of year. Lovely sunny weather that is warm during the day and coolish at night.

You could easily divide between Copenhagen and Stockholm or just do Stockholm with a day trip or two. Both cities have a ton to see and do.

Hotel rates tend not to be SO high then since many locals are on vacation and there is not a ton of business travelers. We stayed in the Grand Hotel in Stockholm - incredible views over parts of the archipelago and Gamla Stan- at about 50% off rack rate.

Consider the entire Alpine region, not just Switzerland. Many parts of the French-Italian Alps are very pleasantly uncrowded in July.

I would also give some consideration to Poland, Scotland, the north coast of Spain and northern Portugal. There are many Italian islands and coastal towns, popular with Italians, that are not crowded in July because Italians vacation in August. These include interesting parts of the Tuscan coast, the area of Sperlonga, the islands of Elba, Giglio, Procida and Ponza. The Italian Riviera between Genova and the French border is also not crowded in July and it is easy to get around by train.

It's great to know that hotels in Stockholm and Copenhagen give such huge discounts during the peak tourist season.

We found many hotels giving large discounts - but perhaps they were those that had primarily business travelers. Can't guarantee why but we had a choice of several very nice places.

Whoever told you late July is "high season" is wrong. It is actually low season (in terms of hotel rates) in many European large cities. It is high season in resort areas, the beach, etc., but not in cities. Why would it be, cities don't exist mainly for vacationers.

I've gotten lower hotel rates in every city I've stayed at in Europe in late July/August, actually -- for example, Paris, London and Prague that I can recall. And rates are definitely cheaper in Barcelona, also, than in some peak period.

Hi all, thanks for the replies!

First of all, I'd like to apologize in advance because this post is going to be a bit long.

Packed like sardine = deal-breaker. Croatia is off the table then.

I haven't given Scandinavian countries much thoughts, I honestly don't know why. Maybe I'm not really familiar with them? I'm gonna do more research and I'll get back to you.

I know in the Summer most Europeans do this mass excursion to the beach but my usual apartment rental in Pisa still classifies summer months as high season and charges accordingly.

FYI, out of the 3 main concerns (crowds, temperature, cost), absence of crowds is non-negotiable (if you need to rub shoulders, it is too crowded).

Temperature-wise, hopefully it doesn't get hotter than 90 degrees. As for the cost, I don't mind mid-to-high range options. I will be traveling with my partner just the two of us and we always prefer accommodation that is more than just a place to sleep.

Also, considering this will be a milestone birthday, I'd like to make it more special.

To give you a bit of idea, our last trip to Italy perfectly embodies what we like. It was a week in Pisa, we stayed at this apartment rental near the Tower. There were a supermarket, a train station, and a bus stop nearby and we walked and took public transport everywhere.

Since Pisa is so well connected, we managed to see Lucca, Florence, Carrara, Pontedera, Livorno, and Peccioli. In terms of activities, Italy offers many that interest us. We took a Tuscan cooking and pasta-making classes in Peccioli and we went to see the Carrara marble quarry which we greatly enjoyed.

I actually consider going back to explore other parts of Italy that we didn't get to the last time such as Cinque Terre, Collodi, Montepulciano, etc but I don't know...Italy two times in a row? Also, it will be at the height of the Summer, I worry Tuscany will be too hot and the cities will be too empty.

I'm perfectly OK with mountain / hill / countryside destinations. Currently I'm leaning towards Switzerland. I'd love to ride the train to Jungfrau, do some hiking, and stay at a nice chalet. Any recommendations?

Also, how about staying in a castle? I heard Belgium had the best castles, is this true?

Thanks! =)

Pisa is such a tourist magnet that it doesn't surprise me they don't lower their prices in July. Most of Italy, unless you get some real elevation, will have the risk of a 90+ heat wave in July.

Switzerland is lovely, but it is quite expensive as compared to the valle d'Aosta, which is filled with castles (don't know how many put up guests). You can reach many of the nicest sights of the valle d'Aosta by public transporation, but it is nice to have a car.

If you are willing to rent a car, Trento and the Trentino area is also filled with castles, and has many lovely affordable places to stay (maybe some of them in castles). It's also got many beautiful lakes, many of them unknown to most foreigners.

http://www.italia.it/en/travel-ideas...s-castles.html

https://www.visittrentino.it/en/trentino/lakes

http://www.tr3ntino.it/en/highlights/castles/

http://castleandpalacehotels.com/cou...neto/korb.html

http://castleandpalacehotels.com/cou...o/pergine.html

traveller1959 wrote:

"Switzerland. The country has lots to offer - mountains, quaint towns, art museums, hiking trails, lakes, monasteries and castles etc. It seldom gets hot and if, you drive just up into the mountains and roll in the snow. My favourite (smallish) town is Luzern. It has a beautiful Old Town, a scenic lake that reaches fjordlike into the mountains, an impressive mountain (Pilatus) with excellent access (tramways) right at the door and good railway connections. You can do daytrip to the Jungfrau (one of the most impressive mountains in the Alps), to Einsiedeln Monastery, to Bern (art museums, Old Town) and Zürich (Old Town).

But there is so much more. What about Scotland? Norway? The German Alps with all these castles in the foothills? Quaint picturesque towns in Germany like Monschau and Aachen? The Rhine Valley with castles, vineyards and wine villages?"

Upon re-reading, I actually like what you've written here, traveller1959!

Quaint picturesque towns = right up my alley
Castles, mountains in the Alps = yes, please!

I've looked it up, Luzern doesn't have an international airport, does it? Is it difficult to get from Zurich to Luzern? And where do you recommend I stay?

Another thing that you wrote that's piqued my interest is Scotland. After looking it up, staying in a castle in Scotland sounds wonderful. Any castle that you'd recommend? But what to do there? I understand castles are usually situated in a moor so I've got to plan ahead for the activities. (Can't imagine stepping outside the castle and just wing it =p)

I would not do a day trip to the Jungfrau; I would spend at least a couple of days there. BUT, be prepared for a LOT of visitors, many of whom are from your part of the world.

If you don't like crowds and that is "non-negotiable for you", think twice about Switzerland in July, or choose very carefully. The places being mentioned here are crowded most of the year, and July is peak month for foreign tourism.

Lucerne is a great choice for a very pretty town, gorgeous lakes with steamers to charming villages and cable cars or cog railways up a number of different Alps. It is about an hour by train to the station under the Zurich airport. You can even make a fairly long day trip to ascend the Jungfrau if you want to spend the time and money. (We found it fascinating but did it from Interlaken which is easier/faster.)

There was recently a thread started on Fodor's entitled "We Won't Be Going to Lucerne Again" posted by Dianedancer. The problem? The crowds. Here is what she wrote in September of this year:

"We went on a Moscow, Munich, and Switzerland trip from which we just returned.

One place we went back to in Switzerland was Lucerne (for 2 days). The first time we were in Lucerne was in 2004. It was glorious. The second time was in 2013 in April, cold and grey but still beautiful and the height of the season hadn't started.

This time was the third week of September. Well, the hordes of tour groups was almost overwhelming. Tour group leaders yelling; people with selfie sticks. Difficult to walk around. And this wasn't even the summer! I can't imagine what it must be like in June/July/August.

What a change from our first trip in September 2004. So sad."

For people, who haven't traveled in a while, they may not realize things change.

others in the thread talked about the crowds:

"kja on Sep 28, 15 at 12:58am
When I visited Lucerne in June 2011, it was vastly more crowded, with Chinese and others, than when I first saw it in 1989. (As I understand it, Switzerland has been aggressively marketing itself to the growing middle class in China.) Fortunately, it was rainy for much of the time I was there, and most people weren't venturing out. Didn't bother me -- that's why I carry a rain jacket. During the times that were sunny and dry, it was crowded enough to limit movement."

"NE on Sep 28, 15 at 5:30pm
We were in Switzerland last September .......Lucerne and the Jungfrau region were more overrun with tourists from Asia than even London or Paris . Going up to the Jungfrau from Wengen there was an entire train booked specifically for some Asian tours . Murren was overrun too ... Going up to the schilthorn ..... Selfie sticks and all . We tried not to let the hoards of people ruin it for us and I guess the local economies benefit because in Lucerne,especially, the Asian tourists were buying lots of stuff in the high end stores ."

For some people, the problem seemed to be that the tourists were Asians, but for others, it was simply the crowds.

best castles in Belgium , good to hear.

We were in Lucerne this past June; I had been there several years ago in May, and I also found it much more crowded this time than it was on my previous trip. And, yes, there were many tour groups from Asian countries. They didn't bother us, and, like most tour groups, they followed a very well-beaten tourist trail. There were many places in the city where there were hardly any tourists at all.

Other towns in Switzerland that we visited on day trips were nowhere near as crowded as Luzerne. Brienz was a nice small town, and we really liked Basel, a larger town, as well. In fact, I would say Basel is very underrated.

The year before we were in Scotland for our June holiday.I think that unless you spend your time in Glasgow or Edinburgh, you should rent a car in Scotland. Some of the trips we took could have been done by train or bus, but we would have seen a lot less if we hadn't rented a car.

Ireland is also very nice in the summer, and there are lots of towns that aren't overrun with tourists. In rural areas, a car is advised. The Netherlands usually isn't terribly hot in July, public transportation is excellent there, and there are lots of pretty little towns that are not on the top ten tourist lists.

Both Ireland and Scotland (but also the Netherlands and much of Scandanavia) can be very rainy in July.

Finally, not all of Italy is hot in July. It's a mountainous country, and the climate depends a lot on altitude. Sandralist has given some good suggestions, but all up and down the peninsula, there are high-altitude areas that are relatively cool in the summer. We spend part of every summer in our summer house in southern Le Marche, just a few hours' drive from Rome. Although it can be hot there for a few hours at midday, we almost always need a wool blanket at night, and going out for dinner always requires a sweater and sometimes also a jacket. However, this is another area that's best seen with a car.

I just saw this post, and am appalled at the way sandralist has taken words on another post out of context to suggest that some of us are prejudiced against Asians. I find this suggestion unwarranted and extremely offensive, and will triangle sandralist's post ASAP. In the meantime, and for the record:

In referring to a thread started by dianedancer, sandralist wrote: "For some people, the problem seemed to be that the tourists were Asians" -- but sandralist took the comments entirely, and quite inappropriately and offensively, out of context. If you look at the original thread, linked below, you will see that dianedancer said: "My husband's supervisor who is from China said the 'Chinese have now discovered Lucerne'. Not that there haven't been loads of other tourists who 'discovered' Lucerne years ago, but I guess that with the increase in Chinese tourism, the bus tours/selfie sticks have added to the mayhem." So some of us commented -- without judgment -- on our observations of other tourists, Asian and others, and our observations of Swiss marketing. To suggest that <b>ANY</b> of us found the presence of Asians, <i>per se</i>, a problem is WAY out of line. You can see the original post here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...erne-again.cfm

I seem to recall that somebody wrote that CH is making a huge marketing campaign to attract Asian tourists.
Which makes sense since Europeans (meaning the ones paid in Euros) don't go to CH anymore due to CHF having gone through the roof.

So they need other clients. And Chinese are good ones.

Today : 1 EUR = 1,08 CHF
5 12 2014 : = 1,2 CHF

http://www.marketing-chine.com/tenda...ristes-chinois

CH is destination nr 9 for Chinese tourist and Chinese are 4th country of origin for tourists visiting CH.

Article says chinese tourists should triple by 2020.
Triple. Means three times more, no ?

Nihaa

Well, I am appalled at your post. If anybody reads the thread, they can see for themselves that for "some" people, the issue was Asians. It had nothing to do with you. (Ever hear that Carly Simon song?) Go soak your head, kja. You're not the only person posting about travel on Fodor's.

I tried to post the link, but the Fodor's system wouldn't let me do it.

(PS. I'm appalled at your behavior as well for "triangling" my post. There is nothing offensive about it in the slightest. The traveler is Asian and crowd-averse. Some people here are trying to help the travler out, not grandstanding.)

guys chill!

the debate needs to move back towards how to advise the OP

Please do not blame me for responding to unwarranted attack on me. I get sick of it on Fodor's when people introduce their crap into a thread -- including trying to censor posts -- and when I express my anger at their abuse of the board, somebody comes in and equates my behavior with theirs.

I AM and WAS trying to help out the OP, as I just said in the post above yours. What kja is doing is wrong, trying to get rid of helpful posts because she imagines they reflect badly on kja, when they have NOTHING to do with kja. OK? I don't have to shup up about that.

I'll also add that I actually don't know if the OP is Asian. He or she simply indicated the are coming fro Singapore.

One other pertinent observation:

I read plenty of posts and trip reports on Fodor's where people complain about some European destinations being overrun with Americans or Brits, and hearing English spoken everywhere, and people asking for help avoiding that. Will kja be "triangling" all those posts if people discuss that or quote from it?

I didn't quote from every post in the that thread because at least one of the post's language was offensive about "hoards" of Asian tourists. In fact, in that thread itself, my only post was to object to it.

So thanks, kja, for including the link I was unable to post so people can see for themselves that "some" people do have a problem with crowds of Asian tourists, not just crowds.

Nobody will ever complain about trying to avoid US or Brits. No one loves them for plenty of good reasons.
Asians are a different matter. The only thing that can be reproached is that they come in huge numbers.
But THEY are likable people.

( gotta add a Lol here - some will not understand it is humor )

@ sandralist: When you quoted me, out of context, to suggest that I found Asian tourists to be a “problem,” YOU made it about me. If I ever again become aware that you have quoted me, out of context, with the suggestion that I am prejudiced against ANY group of people, then yes, I will defend myself and I will triangle you again.

@ RushBijoux – My sincere apologies for this unpleasant digression from your inquiry.

I have been unhappy for years when I spot a Japanese tour group, because all 40 of them want to have their photo taken in front of wherever it is, one after the other. That doesn't mean I am prejudiced against the Japanese (I loved visiting Japan), never mind Asians in general.

So far I haven't seen many Chinese tour groups, but I am certainly prejudiced against large tour groups in general. They make visits to museums exercises in crowd avoidance, and are so busy trying to keep their leader in sight they run rough shod over other people. I wish that museums would restrict tour groups to specific hours.

To the OP - as I posted on your other thread, I recommend the Hurtigruten cruise up the Norwegian coast. Unfortunately, I can't fully recommend Scandinavian cities. I was there in July and August this year, and the coastal cities were overrun with cruise ship passengers.

For mountains you might also consider western Austria. For castles I would recommend Wales and Scotland. Never heard of a castle in Belgium, perhaps someone can provide a link.

Dear fellow travelers, thank you for all your valuable input!

Upon reading some of the posts about Luzern (and other popular Switzerland towns) being crowded most of the time and especially in the Summer, I have decided not to go to Switzerland.

Yes, I am very crowd-averse, Asians or otherwise. I hate tour groups but I understand for some people it's what works best for them (save cost, probably felt safer). I know I am very lucky to have more flexibility when it comes to travel and FYI, I usually avoid traveling in July - August because it's Summer holiday in Europe (I reckon in US & UK, too?) and school holiday in Asia but as I've said, I wanted the trip to coincide with a milestone birthday.

I agree that the crowds would usually be concentrated in one or two areas and that other parts of the city might still be reasonably less crowded. Case in point: last time I was in Pisa, I visited the Leaning Tower at 7:15am and 9:00pm, and virtually NOBODY was there. But when I went there at around 10:00am (we stayed near the Tower so we always made time to walk through the complex every time we went out), I was surpised to see that it was crowded to the brim.

Same as Florence, the minute I stepped off the train at Santa Maria Novella, I almost fainted. Crowds around Duomo and Ponte Vecchio were the worst but as we moved away towards Piazzale Michelangelo, it got better.

So back to my original question, since Switzerland is off the table, our focus is now in Scotland. I've seen some blogs about traveling in Scotland and it seems blissful. I might make like these guys:

http://www.kevinandamanda.com/whatsn...cotland-2.html

but some of you have warned about the rain, is it really that bad?

As for Norway and other Scandinavian countries, I've checked out Hurtigruten and it does seem like the kind of travel that I like but perhaps not now.

My apology if my statement about best castles being from Belgium has rubbed off some of you the wrong way. I never thought about castles until I started doing research for next year's trip (because it's a milestone birthday and I wanted it to be special) and I just googled 'best castles' quickly, checked out the first link I got which wrote 'some of the best castles are in Belgium', and ran with it, not knowing whether it was true.

I'd love to see a "hoard" of Asian, or any other, tourists.

Rush,
I'm Belgian, so I love when somebody says the best castles are in Belgium.
But they aren't, unfortunately. Some are nice though.

>>our focus is now in Scotland. I've seen some blogs about traveling in Scotland and it seems blissful. I might make like these guys:

but some of you have warned about the rain, is it really that bad?<<

Never EVER plan a trip to Scotland based on possible weather. It changes constantly and you might find rain -- or not a drop. June/early July is a FABULOUS time to visit Scotland. June is actually sort of a shoulder season in Scotland after the May bank holidays and before the UK school summer holidays which start mid-ish July. The days are insanely long (like dusk around 11PM and the scenery is outrageously beautiful. More castles than almost anywhere else on earth. If it was me -- I'd start a brand new thread - this one has morphed and is VERY long/unwieldy w/ lots of digressions. There are LOTS of Scotland fans who probably won't wade through all of this to find new ideas of visiting Scotland.


__________________________________________________ ____________

We spent two weeks in Scotland a year and a half ago (in June) and never opened an umbrella. I even got a sunburn! However, a friend of ours who lives in Glasgow says that it rains all the time.