Eating at your "native" restaurants
 

Several recent messages have caused me to think about a "double standard" we seem to have about travel. Someone coming from Europe to the US wanted to know where he could see some major soccer finals. People answered and no one scolded him about spending time in the US watching European soccer. Yet if anyone from the US posts about where to see the Super Bowl in Venice or Paris -- he will be slammed for thinking of spending part of his vacation doing anything so American.

But now about restaurants. Is that the same? We certainly see slams for people wanting an American style breakfast in Europe or going to MacDonald's. Yet here in Florida we have a lot of European travelers. When I go to a local French restaurant there are invariably visiting French people there. And we have one Italian place that seems to be a magnet for all Italian visitors here. Same with a German place. So is it considered OK for them, but not for us? I certainly never imagine anyone "scolding" these people for visiting a restaurant in the US that serves their native food. Why is it a no-no for us?

Can anyone explain the "double standard"?

It is a double standard but to be honest with you, American food is not that great in comparison, and I think that is the main reason. Personally, I never eat at American style restaurants abroad, except if it is Thanksgiving!!

So a good American breakfast is not as good as a stale croissant, watery orange juice, and coffee in a hotel in Europe? Sorry, I could beg to differ on that.

And I've eaten the German food at our local place that Germans flock to -- trust me, it "ain't" great.

"American food is not that great.." Bianca you are kidding, right? Just what kind of American food are you tarring with that broad brush?

I am not fond of German food, but when it comes to Italian and French food, in my opinion, it is a no-brainer -- American food just can't compete. Sure a greasy hamburger or "California fusion cuisine" is satisfying every now and then, but if you only have 2-3 weeks in Europe, save the crave for when you return home. And stale croissant -- don't eat a hotel breakfast -- go to the local bakery instead!! I never stay in hotels -- I always rent apartments instead so am in control of where my meals come from and don't have to deal with lame continental breakfasts. I am from the San Francisco Bay Area and am also a travel professional, so perhaps these two factors make me very spoiled when it comes to food.

I am from the southern part of the US (for most of my life anyway) and I think we have some of the best food in the world:)
Also...I must chime in for New England Clam Chowder...America definitely has some "good eats."

bianca, you're totally missing the point. Sure you can find bad or good food anywhere. My point is that no one will scold Americans for eating breakfast in their hotel in Paris, but they will scold them (and have here often) when they ask where they can get a full "American" style breakfast.
The point here isn't about the quality of food -- it's about seeking your own style of food as opposed to only eating local. My point was that no one is bothered when French go to a French restaurant in Peoria, but they scream bloody murder when an American goes to an American restaurant in Nice. Why does no one suggest those French people wait for their great food when they get home and while in the states seek out the best of "local cuisine" places? Get it?

because it isn't the same. you must agree that classic french and italian food are incomparable. if you don't agree - then i accept that, and we should then choose to disagree and accept our disagreements. I am happy to do so.

Bianca you truly are missing the point. Although it is not the issue, I would venture to say that you have not sampled some of the fantastic food on offer here in the US... Perhaps as a travel professional you have not traveled much in this country..not to New England for the seafood, or to Kentucky for the BBQ. Or to Tucson for their version of Northern Mexican... I could go on and on but as Neo said, this is not the point here...
We certainly have some great chefs cooking the American vernacular right here in NYC and I would guess you have the same in the Bay area...

Neo, I see your point and I agree with you. I think that many Italians, especially, are not adventurous when it comes to food. They seem to me to stick to the food of their egion even when traveling within Italy...

Yet no one ever comments on this, while Americans do get blasted... HOWEVER, I think it is safe to say that the restaurants in Europe which feature American fare are not offering the best of what the US has to offer, but tend to the stereotypical hamburgers and the like... But in the US, because of our immigrant tradition, we Do have some terrific places serving the food of Italy..and India, and on and on..

Hope I am making some sense here...

I am not missing the point. I have lived in Paris, Florence, London for a good part of my life. Judge me as you may but I have traveled and lived in Europe for over 10 of my 30 years. I got married in Florence just this past May as well. I am very aware of the "differences" and nuances between the US and Europe. But to subject yourself to bad American food because of familiarity or nostalgia - no, not worth it - better to have a bad European breakfast than to have a mediocre attempt at an American breakfast. Or skip breakfast altogether and have a generous spread instead for lunch. Just my two cents...

Yes, there is some sense there, but here's another thought to indicate that I really don't think it's a matter of seeking the best quality, but seeking the "familiar". Here in Naples, tons of Italian tourists flock to Olive Garden. Now are you really going to tell me that the quality there is better than some great American steakhouse next door? My point is they go for the familiar rather than seek out what is truly American and that seems to be fine. But an American wanting eggs benedict or pancakes or ham and eggs in Paris for breakfast is scorned.

I am bowing out. You are not grasping the issue here...it has nothing to do with the fact that you have traveled to a couple of places in your life!

bianca, you have answered my question why some people scorn anyone who seeks out "American". It's because some of you think anything "American" is automatically bad and anything French or Italian is automatically better.

I had a fantastic breakfast at a place in Paris called Breakfast in America. It was wonderful. But because of the name if nothing else you would KNOW that it is inferior to anything else in Paris. I've also had some pretty bad breakfasts in Paris -- really undrinkable coffee and stale pastries. But because they are Parisian, I'm sure you'd think they are superior to that "American" breakfast of perfectly cooked eggs and ham. Thank you for your thoughts. Very revealing.

I love Breakfast in America. I was in Paris a couple of years ago and enjoyed my fill of crepes and croissants, but after several days, I had a hankering for scrambled eggs. BIA fit the bill nicely. Plus, we found other Americans to talk baseball with. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's not like I spent the entire vacation eating only at McDs.

to ekscrunchy I have traveled to Europe 20 times in my 32 years of living. And yes, as a child, I was homesick for burgers and fries, but having traveled there 14 times as an adult since 1995, then I think I have some expertise on the issue at hand. My son first went in 97 and has been back 7 times since then. He loves the local food and has no desire to visit American style restaurants while there. He attends a French-American school here in California, but he is amenable and enthusiastic even about trying all the delights the local restaurants have to offer. I beg you to do the same.

You beg me to do WHAT, Bianca?

And guess what, compared to some of us, you have barely scratched the surface as far as traveling goes!
And that has EXACTLY NOTHING to do with NeoPartick's original query.

ekscrunchy when I said I beg you to do the same was in reference to enjoying only the local flavors as opposed to American chain restaurants. But do as you please. Paris is my heart and so is florence.

"American chain restaurants"? You really didn't get the question, did you, bianca?

When an American is going to Paris and wants more for breakfast than the usual coffee and croissant or baquette (and some of us have medical reasons why that is NOT a good breakfast) he may express an interest in getting an "American style breakfast" like eggs. He may get that at Paul or some Parisian cafes. My query has to do with people who slam him for wanting eggs which he can get at home instead of just doing what Parisians do. It has nothing in the world to do with seeking out an American chain! And my main point is really the other way. If his seeking the type breakfast he has at home instead of bowing to local tradition is considered so horrible, then why is it OK for an Italian to seek out only Italian restaurants in the US instead of doing more typically American food? Or why shouldn't a Parisian visiting in New York be slammed for just grabbing a croissant and coffee for breakfast like he does at home instead of going to a diner and eating a full American breakfast.


Get it yet? Why the double standard? And NO it has nothing to do with the quality of the food.

Oh my gosh...

Bianca...you have no idea.....

I know you are new here, but truly you are "talking" to the wrong person about local eating!



And you still have no idea of the thrust of this discussion!!!!

I'm done. Do what you want. Paris is my heart. Live it as you will!!

Well that settles it. And a writer as well! No wonder you did not understand the original question..!

Patrick and ek, you might as well give up, she's just not getting it!

It is an interesting question, Patrick. I like to eat the local food, as I know both you and ek do most of the time, but if I really wanted an American breakfast (or other meal), I certainly wouldn't let the opinions at Fodor's keep me from having it!

Neo - don't you think that when one considers an American restaurant in Paris McDo, BK, are what they are talking about. Now when one considers French or Italian in Florida, I would say some of the top restos crop up. Well yes there is Olive Garden but please...
Good American food restaurants are a lot harder to find in the US than good French restaurants in France.


I googled top 10 restos in Naples and look what came up:
10Best Featured Selections
Alexander's »

(Restaurants / Lunch)

NORTH NAPLES. 239-262-4999

Amore Ristorante »

(Restaurants / Italian)

OLDE TOWNE. 239-643-2201

Bay House Restaurant »

(Restaurants / Seafood)

NORTH NAPLES. 239-591-3837

Bayside Seafood Grill and Bar »

(Restaurants / Seafood)

NORTH NAPLES. 239-649-5552

Bha! Bha! A Persian Bistro »

(Restaurants / Lunch)

NORTH NAPLES. 239-594-5557

Bistro 821 »

(Restaurants / International)

OLDE NAPLES. 239-261-5821

Campiello »

(Restaurants / Italian)

OLDE NAPLES. 239-435-1166

Chops City Grill »

(Restaurants / American Continental)

OLDE NAPLES. 239-262-4677

First Watch Restaurant »

(Restaurants / Lunch)

OLDE NAPLES. 239-434-0005

Kelly's Fish House »

(Restaurants / Seafood)

OLDE NAPLES. 239-774-0494

Four (five if you count Alexanders) are European. Now you get a list of the 10 best of Paris and keep going until an American Food eatery comes up.

Susan, so true. Suddenly I feel like I'm defending Americans eating American in Paris -- which was certainly not my point, nor what I do personally. But I am certainly not ashamed that sometimes I want eggs for breakfast in Europe instead of bread and coffee. And if after a month or two in Europe I'd really like a good hamburger I don't see what the big deal is. Similarly if a French couple in San Francisco suddenly have a hankering for a good croque or quiche why not? Yet if right here on Fodors, I asked for a good hamburger in Paris, many would scream bloody murder. The French couple asking where to get a quiche or croque would get only helpful replies.

You're right. I guess we just have to keep eating what we want to eat! I might not want to go to McDonald's in Europe, but I don't let it bother me if someone else wants to.

Most Chinese travelers will have Chinese food for most of their meals wherever they go.

How about a little comic relief?

Just a story to make you smile..

My then-17-yr-old daughter and I went to Ireland with her H.S. band about 13 years ago. We traveled from Dublin to Limerick and a few places in-between. It was a 10-day trip.

Every morning at our hotel (and there were three we stayed at), we had breakfast with the group (150 teens and 20 parents) in a conference-type room. It was exactly the same at every hotel: fried eggs, white toast, porridge and "sausage" (which the teens referred to, probably close to accurately, as "everything inedible from a pig stuffed into an intestine). Every lunch consisted of "vegetable soup" (some water and milk concoction with exactly 4 corn kernels and 3 slices of scallion in it).

By the 7th day of the trip, my daughter had lost 7 lbs. I became quite concerned. So, on the 8th day of our trip, I told my daughter we would not eat with the group; that we would go to the hotel restaurant and order a real breakfast.

So we were politely seated by the hostess and were looking forward to some mouthwatering waffles or french toast. Scrambled eggs and croissants.

We read the menu: Fried eggs/white toast/porridge/sausage. That was it!

I cannot tell you how hard she and I laughed. We were in such hysterics when the waitress came, all we could say was, "we're sorry, we've changed our minds" and made our way back to the conference room. :-))

Thank heavens the band director decided to stop the buses in Limerick that afternoon so the kids could do the small mall there. The grocery store in the mall (yes, we thought very strange, grocery store and a butcher shop,too!) was inundated with American teens in short order. What did my daughter come back with? What she termed as "real food". Potato chips and bananas. :-)) :-))

I like having local cuisine on trips, but sometimes I want some familiar fare, and other times, it's fun to see foreigners take a stab at American food. When I went to the UK this past June, I ate at a Pizza Hut on Victoria Street in London and it was interesting to see how Pizza Hut in the UK differs from the US--the big difference being dessert. They have actual, for real, dessert dishes like profiteroles and cheesecake, and dessert was included on the per person combo option that we ordered. Very different from the US. Then, in Edinbugh, we ate at a Tex-Mex place on the Royal Mile (Cannongate) named Pancho Villa's. Pretty passable attempt at Tex-Mex (a lot closer than the French interpretation we experienced at Versailles a few years before). Now, of course, we don't go for this stuff all the time, as we had kippers, haggis, blood sausage, fish and chips, and some other UK delicacies on our recent trip, but sometimes, we decided to opt for something more familiar.

Frankly, I think a lot of the phenomenon the OP talks about can be traced back to a few (and I do mean few) overzealous foodies.

I would enjoy a nice big hot breakfast in Italy or France once in awile. That in itself doesn't really speak to the OPs questions but I am not adverse to going out for a great American meal if the opportunity knocks.

interesting thread -- perhaps more so than Patrick intended.

When I lived in England we went out to a place billed as "American style pizza." One of the English lads had been in the States and warned me quietly, "you'll find it a bit different than home." Well said. The canned corn kernels on the pizza weren't anything I'd had in Chicago or New York.

Given that I could hardly get corn when I lived there (I was told it was considered animal fodder), I presumed that they were trying to BE American. And it was overall not as good a pizza. Nor was it a chain.

Incidentally I also went to a Mexican place on the Royal Mile. It was decent... I wonder if it was the same one? Funny.

Perhaps I am being a bit defensive, but if you see, my original post acknowledged that YES, there is a double standard. My advice about only eating local fare while abroad was based on the idea of people traveling on a short term basis (one month or less). But I should add that American food abroad for the most part is sub-par. Any good American joints are hard to come by for sure. I speak from experience having lived for 2 years in London, 2 years in Paris, and 1 year in Florence. Unless of course you like Chili's and the likes. There are the exceptions of course (Joe Allen's in Paris isn't half bad as an example -- where I go for Thanksgiving if there at that time). But all the TexMex places are pretty awful -- maybe I am a bit biased being Mexican and living in the Bay Area but come on now -- Velveeta -- no! When we were living in Paris, my mom had to make tortillas by hand because all that was available for purchase were tortillas in CANS from the Mexican embassy! No big deal though -- we were quite happy with the French fare so homemade Mexican food was reserved really only for special occasions and it was all made from scratch so better yet!

What makes a breakfast an American breakfast? Most Parisian cafés will serve an English breakfast with eggs, bacon, with freshly squeezed juice, etc., so does this mean that you people are actually looking for pancakes, hash browns and 'French' toast? What's wrong with an English breakfast?

We've been living in Europe for several years now and at only one place have we had a truly decent burger.
Gourmet Burger Kitchen (GBK). It's a small chain in the London area, started by New Zealanders, I believe. We go to the one in Windsor in the arcade by the Windsor & Eton Central train station. They have several branches in London.
If you take kids to London and they get burger cravings (or you do), this is the only place even worth considering.
Whenever we get hungry for American style food, we make it ourselves. Every Sunday, DH and the cocker share a portion of dippy eggs.
Europeans have bizarre ideas about what constitutes American food...they are basically clueless about regional differences...MY American food is Pennsylvania Dutch, Philadelphian, and Pacific NW. Someone else's might be Souther bbq, cajun, or New England.

The British animated comedy Bob & Margaret did a very funny episode about that, where the title characters decide to take their new American neighbors (Californian New Agers) to a horrific, faux Western steak place thinking that would help the newcomers feel more at home. Didn't quite work out that way.

To even suggest that true American cuisine is somehow inferior to French or Italian cuisine is just ridiculous!
I love it when Europeans talk smack about the "greasy hamburger" because Mc D's,BK,Windy's and others sure do a big business in Europe from non American tourists. Here in Texas a lone I could take a European visitor to a number of absolutely great American restaurants for dinners of steak,lamb,pork,chicken,BBQ,seafood,tex-mex or home cooking to name just a few.. that is so good they would think they died and went to heaven! All for under $20.00 per person at 100's of places. Do that in Paris or Rome. We will be in Paris for our first visit in 5 days and I hope to fall in love with French cuisine however. Our budget only allows 70 Euros ($95.00) per day for food so, if we are only offered low end meals for that much money I won't eat it just to say I ate French food in Paris! I'll look for lunch meats and bread and save my money for a great restaurant when we get home! Just my opinion. Oh by the way.. We loved German and Austrian food. The price was good too at sit down restaurants last year when we were there.

I find that when I travel internationally I will eat at 3 different kinds of restaurants.

1. Local cuisine. i.e. local Italian, Japanese, German, etc specialties. Need not be anything fancy, but rather offers a very typical local menu.

2. International 'grill' or 'bistro'. This is the type that I most closely associate as 'American'. Not necessarily American in origin, but rather the exact same type of restaurant I will frequent at home. Not necessarily any particular ethnic style but rather creative and well prepared appetizers, salads, meat & fish dishes, and of course desserts. A nice wine list, good coffee, and a selection of after dinner drinks. A good menu like this can be a success internationally. There is another thread about La Giostra in Florence. It could fall under this category and is therefore a nice place on a trip to Italy. "Typical Tuscan" is great, but not necessarily every night.

3. Some other international style. i.e. Chinese in Italy, Sushi in Germany, Italian in Japan, On a longer trip it's a nice change to break the mold and have some variety.

<font color=blue><i>&quot;My query has to do with people who slam him for wanting eggs which he can get at home instead of just doing what Parisians do&quot;</i></font>

I am French and I LOVE American breakfasts. I certainly wouldn't scold anyone wanting eggs, sausages, bacon, hashbrowns, wafles, pancakes, orange juice, two or three refills of coffee,etc, etc.. for their breakfast.

Ah, but you're sensible, Askar, I brought this up because there have been more than a few wild attacks here &quot;why on earth would you want an American breakfast in Paris -- do what the locals do&quot;.

It was funny that at that Breakfast in America place we ate one Sunday morning, at least half the people there seemed to be French -- eating pancakes, eggs, etc.

My goodness, it's been a long time since I've seen someone with so serious a reading comprehension problem not GET it even after innumerable explanations. There is, however, one refrain that Bianca keeps repeating that does, I think, figure into the double standard issue.

She posits that American food is sub-par. She's completely wrong, of course, but at least you can admit that a goodly number of people on this planet share her incorrect view. And I do believe we Americans have a bit of an inferiority complex about it, much as the Brits did a couple of decades ago (deservedly, I might add).

So, when Americans come here asking how to find bacon and eggs or a banana split in Europe, I think some of us who have traveled widely and know a lot about European cuisine tend to wag our fingers and say &quot; Good Lord, NO! Why would you want THAT when you can have bla bla bla...local cuisine?&quot; It's partly a result of our inferiority complex about our own cuisine and partly an attempt to show off that we've been to Europe a gazillion times and know better than those who haven't been so fortunate.

At the same time, I think most French and Italian people visiting America are seeking familiar food, even if it's a lousy version of what they get in their own countries, for similar reasons - it's familiar, and to chow down on American food while they're here might challenge their own feelings of culinary superiority. It might be hard for them to admit to liking some of America's best culinary offerings.

Of course there are many French and Italian visitors who do try the best of America's culinary offerings and truly enjoy them and don't mind admitting that we've got some damn good food in this country.

There's a great deal of posturing on both sides, and an interesting history of pride, or lack thereof, in various countries' culinary histories. Plus all the individual baggage travelers carry with them, like believing that anything European is superior to anything American.

But you're right - we see that double standard here all the time and might want to rethink our responses now that you've posted this.,

Well, this is an extremely interesting thread &amp; revealing about some people! I realize it was not appreciated (by a few) on my thread about where could I find American food in Rome, but there were very few NON-Italians at the Hard Rock when we were there. Same goes for McD's. In Venice, the McD's was filled to waiting on a table status on Sunday -the locals brought their families there.

I find it strange that some folks think American food is hamburgers &amp; pizza. DH &amp; I are Americans &amp; probably eat hamburger/beef about 1 time a month; same with pizza. We eat mostly fish, &amp; chicken, soups, salad, &amp; veggies, as are a lot of people we know. And we sure don't eat all of that bread the Europeans eat!

I prefer American food because it is so much more diverse than the food in the individual European countries. One day I want Italian (American style), next Mexican (American style), next Asian (American stylel), next cagun (New Orleans style), next NY deli, next Bar-B-Q, etc. And, when we want American food in Europe, it is because of the sameness, lack of diversity, not because we want a hamburger. We eat a hamburger just for relief from the sameness. It is just like the lack of diversity in people. After 4 weeks in Italy on our first visit, we missed our melting pot of colors, cultures, ethnic groups, etc. We love Europe, but that doesn't mean we don't recognize some things we like better about America.

Now, this is really freaking me out! How can any intelligent person say in an encompassing way that this food is better/inferior to that food. The taste of food is personal, therefore, only personal judgements can apply. Please only speak for yourself &amp; please admit it is only your opinion, not the rule of the world!

Neo, hope you are not too frustrated. YOUR thread did go off subject. It seemed to me that you were not wanting a discussion on food, countries, tastes. You simply wanted to discuss (&amp; probably wanted some pompous folks to admit) that some on this board slam us Americans for doing the same thing in Europe that Europeans do when they come to America, yet no one slams the Europeans! In fact, they eagerly help them (as we should)! IMO, that attitude harkens back to the &quot;old&quot; days when only the wealthy could go &quot;across the pond&quot;. So an elitism developed about anything European. Now, some Americans who travel to Europe like to think themselves as &quot;worldly&quot;, thereby, being so sophisticated they do not cling to American ways &amp; are a cut above those who do not &quot;cross the pond&quot; and/or do not understand and/or worship the &quot;European way&quot;. Anyway, I agree with you! Now, that &amp; 3 Euros may get you a cup of coffee :-)

Just my opinions, Julie

Bianca,
&gt;&gt;yes, as a child, I was homesick for burgers and fries&lt;&lt;

First, get your facts straight..&quot;fries&quot; are not an American food...They come from and are a Belgian food.

Second...I agree with everyone, you just don't get it!!!