I wonder where all the poeple are that don't like Dublin, because it is a pretty popular refrain. I like it more everytime I go there and am ny no means an expert on the city. Just as an aside, we stayed at the Pembroke townhouse in Balsbridge at the suggestion of Siobhan (to stay in the area) and someone else specifically suggesting Pembroke and it was very nice. It's a healthy walk to the city center but the area is very quiet and comfortable.

Bill

Polite Questions. How old are you? Educational level? Mother tongue? Economic strata? Race? Mobile-self, assisted or wheel chair? Religion? Local origins? Pubs or museums? Introverts or extroverts?

Italian_Chauffer, wow, you know a lot of Dublin history. How many times have you been to Dublin? What's the secret to enjoying repeat visits to Dublin? I thought I had already done a lot of research on Ireland, but it looks like I've barely dabbled in Irish history! Thanks for your interesting replies.

SIOBHAN P: Thanks for the suggestions. The trick now is to decide what I need to include or miss, with only 2 nights in Dublin! Just a glimpse...I'm thinking it will be a challenge to see the National Museum (Archaeology etc), the Natural History museum (for hubby), and the Kilmainham Gaol, plus checking out Grafton St., Merrion Square, St. Stephen's Green areas...

WAFFLE18, very handy to have inlaws close to Dublin! So, what are your 2 favorite Dublin sites or experiences?

FLBRONC: I will look into the Paramount Hotel, thanks. Sounds like you enjoyed Dublin.

WOJAZZ3, yeah, where are the people who don't like Dublin? Maybe they don't feel stronly enough to read down this far. (If you look at discussions of Venice, Italy you will get passionate opinions on both sides...) I have developed my own theory about visiting cities. When you visit the countryside or the seaside, you can sort of mosey around without a lot of planning and it could works okay. But in the city it's better to plan more carefully, otherwise you could find yourself staying in an inconvenient part of town, and finding transportation and directions to be a frustrating tangle that might ruin your day. Plus city often means crowds, and if you plan ahead, you can often arrive at a site at a less crowded time.

Bill (WOJAZZ3), yours is another vote for the Pembroke townhouse in Ballsbridge, so I will look into that one more carefully. What's your secret, as you say you like Dublin better every time you go?

GSTEED: Age: old enough. Educational level: eternal student of life. Mother tongue: guess; Economic strata: yes; Race: earthling; Mobile: phone; Religion: Universal; Local origins: tomatoes; Pubs or museums: depends; Introverts or extroverts: definitely.

I've only been to Dublin three times, never for more than two days. We have family AND friends (and really, aren't they basically the same)in east and West Cork, Killarney and around Kildare. What little I know about Dublin (and Dublin history) is generally periphrial to my main interest. I've done a LOT of research on the Rebellion of 1798 (but mostly, the French 'Invasion' in Mayo) and the Famine (Mayo, again, but also West Cork).
In Feb of 2002, I walked the cold, muddy and wet road through Ballinamunck, in a driving rain. My wife and the other four traveling companions waited patiently and slightly bemused in the warm, dry van. I guess they didn't get it either., but they didn't object to the detour, either. There is NO PLACE in Ireland that I could say wasn't worth a visit, but time restraints always force you into making choices. I haven't seen 1/3 of Dublin, ANY of the North (including Donegal) and far too little of Wicklow and Wexford.
Best 30 Euro I ever spent in Dublin? A taxi ride from the airport back to Ballsbridge, after dropping off the rental car. Got caught in traffic that made the trip last nearly an hour, and had the best damn time talking with the driver about his children and mine, world politics, the Celtic Tiger and the way that life has treated us.
My tip for enjoying your visit? Take time to interact with the people you meet.

Italian_Chauffeur, I like your recipe for having "the best damn time". See, that's why I like to have 3 nights in one place if possible...to slow down and chat to interesting local people; in Italy, for example, I loved having time to return to the same gelato shop to practice my Italian with the cashier who was a local. Because Ireland has a lot of interesting small towns, it's more tempting or even necessary to have some 1 and 2-night stops, even though I prefer 3-night stops.

Nice chatting with you! Say, are you really an Italian chauffeur?

Yes and no. There is an old thread lurking about the archives called "HOW DID YOU CHOSE YOUR SCREEN NAME?", or something similar. If you 'click on' my screen name and search down you can probably find it. My entry will be highlighted in grey.

Mellissa5:

Some time ago we had email exchanges and I referenced my Trip Report Oct.'04, which you said you were printing out. As I note you are still seeking a hotel in Dublin, just thought I'd put in a reminder re the Mercer Hotel (www.mercerhotel.ie/).

It is centrally located, yet on a quiet side street. It's small (I think 44 rooms), was comfortable, clean, and a very friendly staff. Breakfast was included in room rate, and I found a very good discount rate on one of the Dublin hotel sites (sorry, don't recall which one).

I made the reservation many months ahead, and then worried that all would be ok. Re-contacted the hotel by email,as our travel date came near, and indeed all was well.

We arrived via cab at about 6:30am in the morning from the airport, were welcomed, our luggage was stored, we were offered breakfast at no charge, and relaxed in their dining area and then the little lounge they have (with Sky TV). Then took a walk over to St.Stephen's Green and about the area. When we returned, by then someone had checked out and a room soon was prepared for us. We were able to unpack, rest, and then get on with the day! Excellent!

Melissa5: Because you asked:


Author: Itallian_Chauffer
Date: 07/24/2004, 08:45 pm
Because I've grown MUCH TOO DEPENDANT upon SPELLCHECK, but you get the intent.
In Oct of '98, my wife gave me an ultimatum/ deadline -- we had to go to Ireland before her next birthday (OCT).
Both of her father's parents had been born and raised in Ireland, yet no one in her family (including her father)had ever been.
So, in April of 99, my wife, her brother, her sister (and her partner)and my father-in-law (aged 80) and I took off for an 8 day trip. All the planning, all the driving, route planning and accommodation selection was done by me. I had been so anal about the research that I printed out maps of, to/from the airports, lists and locations of attractions, historical data, etc. etc. My 'guidebook' ran about 100 pages and whenever one of the group would ask about ANYTHING, I would tell them "It's in the book", and then quote the pertinent information. They started kidding me about being the 'Irish Tour Guide' and I would say, "No, I'm the Itallian (which I am) Chauffeur!" The name didn't really stick until our last day in Ireland. We were checking into a B&B in Bunnratty and the owner asked me which room would be for which person (Like most men, I'm not allowed to make that call, it's ALWAYS up to my wife). Feeling a little silly, I replied, "You'll have to ask them, I'M JUST THE CAUFFEUR". Nonplussed, the owner nodded and replied, "So you will be back in the morning to pick them up?"
"No," was my reply. Then I pointed to my wife (then of 28 years) and said, "I'm sleeping with her."

Ever since, I've been the Itallian Chauffeur.


SiobhanP: I see from that same thread, that your real name is Patricia. It is a lovely name (one you share, with my lovely -- and long-suffering -- wife). We are currently planning to celebrate our 35th Anniversary next April, in much the same manner as we celebrated our 30th -- together, in Ireland ...

Italian_Chauffeur, what a great story! I'm sure you'll bring a smile to anyone reading how you got your name, unless they are actually rolling on the floor laughing, and by the way, I read that laughter is incredibly good for you and boosts the immune system. Thanks for sharing the story! Love Italy by the way, fantastic family trip summer 2004.

Hubby and I just got away for a romantic weekend to Big Bear Lake where I got away from planning our getaway to Ireland for a whole weekend! (Okay, not completely, I stowed a new book on B&Bs in Ireland in my luggage.) When we were stuck in a traffic jam on the way up to big bear I pulled out the book and was reading to hubby about a unique Irish B&B which really intrigued me..when oopsie...LOL...hubby and I realized that...umm...it didn't actually exist and was the author's joke on us! If you can never have enough guidebooks (yep, I have Fodors too) check out Alastair Sawday's "Special Places To Stay, Ireland", brand new in 2005. There's a photo for every B&B listed.

Suelh, thanks very much for your info on the Mercer. It's not due to lack of info that I don't have the Dublin hotel picked out yet...You see, I am just an obsessive-information-collector, and as Italian Chauffeur mentioned, nothing short of a novel's worth of travel info pages printed out will satisfy me. While some people might consider this excessive work, I consider it great fun, because while I'm "obsessing" about which hotel to stay in, I learn so much about a place, the people, the customs, the food, the music, the atmosphere...I told hubby that when I take my "real" first trip to a new country, it feels almost like coming home, because of all the research.

Actually it feels like I am researching a book, then I write the book, then, presto, I get to actually step into the book, and it's real! Yes, that's what travelling and travel-planning feels like to me.

Thank you all for indulging me. I have learned so much from you.

Right now I have 2 nights in Dublin scheduled for the end of our trip, and 2 nights in Trim scheduled for the middle of our trip to see Newgrange and Trim Castle. I was thinking about re-arranging things maybe and having 4 nights in 1 hotel as a base for seeing Dublin, Newgrange, and Trim. But not sure about that yet. At any rate I think October is a good month for getting the airfare and B&Bs squared away for June 2005 so can't dilly-dally much longer!

Again, since I was asked,
Information about Croppies Acre:

From the web-site: http://homepage.eircom.net/~eirenua/aug98/saoirse4.htm

“In a four-month period over the summer of 1798 the brutality and savagery of the English forces, including Irishmen in the service of the Crown, had cut down almost 30,000 people, more than died in all the years of the French Revolution.
Here, between the Royal Barracks and the River Liffey large holes were excavated and into them were thrown the bodies of the insurgents of Dublin city and county and the neighbouring counties of Kildare, Meath and Wicklow.

Robert Emmet wrote of this Croppies’ Acre:

‘No rising column marks the spot
Where many a victim lies
But oh! The blood which here has streamed
To heaven for justice cries.

Unconsecrated in this ground
Unblest by holy hands
No bell tolls its solemn sound
No monument here stands.

But here the patriot’s tears are shed
The poor man’s blessing given
These consecrate the virtuous dead
These waft their fame to heaven.’

Five years after these mass graves were opened and closed, Robert Emmet himself was hanged in Thomas Street, where our parade assembled today. We do not know where Emmet’s body lies but his memory is safe in the minds of the Irish people.
We do not know how many croppies are buried here. It was certainly hundreds, and possibly a thousand or more. Matthew Tone, Theobald’s younger brother and Bartholomew Teeling of Lisburn, Co Antrim are probably among them.”

Also, for Shadow:

From an Orange Order song from the time of the 1798 Rebellion:

“O Croppies, ye’d better be quiet and still,
Ye shan’t have your liberty, do what ye will,
As long as salt water is found in the deep
Our foot on the neck of the Croppy we’ll keep.

Down, down, Croppies lie down . . .”

Melissa5, thanks for starting this thread. Seems that we will be in Malaga Spain next summer and the quickest, least expensive flights from JFK is via Dublin (go figure)on Aer Lingus. WE now have decided to spend two nights there. We booked the Westin Dublin which appears to be in a central location. Also, there are a number of walking tours of various interests that depart from Trinity College which sound interesting.

Thanks everyone for this terrific thread!!
We just booked a week in Dublin...in Feburary....yes...we love cold & damp & melancholy!!
Last May we spent a month in Ireland & stayed in the country the entire trip...we booked into Belcamp-Hutchinson, near the airport...so we never came into Dublin.
So I decided we needed to return to savor Dublin...thank you for the wonderful information!!
ITALIAN_CHAUFFER.....what wonderfu stories...ie your moniker....and Croppies Acre. I can't wait to spend time with the troups!!
Many thanks!!
((*))

I'm quite late weighing in here... but I vote it as a must see! Fantastic city - and I'm not a 'city' person.

Daytrip to Malahide castle well worthwhile (best meal was at the # restaurant... 31? 21? 12? Not a big town, you can find it!). Great city to wander in, and be certain to do a 'pub' night, you'll meet great people since the Irish are very friendly.

Here's a link to my (pathetic) trip report from 2003... http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34464811

Enjoy, all of you! Travelphile

(Bailey, we must talk about Dublin on email!)

Travephile....that would be great!!
Here's my e-mail:
[email protected]
((*))

Itallian_Chauffeur: OH, what vivid, passionate and tragic poetry... I sure find it inspiring (especially since I plan to be a poet when I grow up, which should be soon, since I am almost 50.) That Orange Order song from 1798 sure doesn't beat about the bush, does it? "Our foot on the neck of the Croppy we'll keep. Down, down, Croppies lie down..."

Please, Itallian Chauffeur, tell me, why are the people called "Croppies"? Thank you for bringing a bit of Irish history alive for us, sad though it is. Have you published a book? You certainly should.

ROGFAM: Enjoy your 2 nights in Dublin on the way to Spain!

BAILEY: Savor your cold, damp, and melancholy Dublin with a hot cup of tea (whiskey?) Hope you tell us all about it when you return.

TRAVELPHILE: It's never too late to cast your vote. And since I'm not usually a city person either (but I love Rome and San Francisco) I am now curious to dip into your trip report...

The traditional hair style of the late 1700's was long. The French Jacobites began to 'crop' their hair short, as a political statement, and the fashion spread. The English applied the term derogitarily, to all rebels and

In my youth, I did some writing for magazines (business publications, mostly), but other than my sojourns on this board, any serious writing I do is for family and a small group of friends. I have compiled two volumes of a planned trilogy called SPOKES IN THE WHEEL, in which I have fictionally inserted my wife's anscestors into key Irish history events (kind of an Irish FORREST GUMP approach).
Book One: MEN OF HONOR dealt with the Rebellion of 1798, specifically, the French Incursion into Connaught.
Book Two: HARD ROAD , based in Belmullet, Co. Mayo, the 50 years between the Rebellion and the Great Famine.
Book Three, as yet unwritten and untitled will be based in Millstreet, Co. Cork, and span the next 50 years (1848-1850), ending with my wife's grandfather leaving Ireland for the US in 1898.
I give copies to the family at Christmas. They seem to like them.

The title comes from a Ciaran Wynne tune, "A Mother's Song", from his CD titled NO WAY HOME.

"THIS IS NOT A LOVE SONG,
THIS IS HOW I FEEL.
BUT I KNOW I MUST BE STRONG,
I'M JUST A SPOKE IN THE WHEEL."

Now, THAT is Art.

Bob

Bob, that's not fair. If your books aren't in the bookstore how can I read them? You're an excellent writer and you have an incredible mind that collects facts like a magnet attracts metal.

Thank you for clearing up the mystery about croppies. Haircuts...who would have thought it...

Did you know that Tolkien's Lord of the Rings was originally a bed-time story written for his son? It was his friend C.S. Lewis who told him he really should have it published. And I'm so glad he did as it has to be the most wonderful book I've ever read. (Actually the series of 3 books was intended to be one long book by Tolkien, but the publisher thought it was too long...)

Well getting off the subject! Can you recommend a couple books that would be good to read about Ireland before I go? There are so many I don't know where to start, besides my travel books.

How do you self-publish your books and give them to family? I want to self-publish a book on our Irish family history and give copies to family. But I'm technologically behind and not sure what software I need, etc. How do you do it? (It was someone on fodors who taught me how to copy and paste recently! No kidding!) Though I can remember just about every B&B and hotel in Ireland, I forget how to do technical/mechanical things unless I do them every single day... If I wasn't on fodors so much, I'd forget how to get back, I'm sure!

Have an interesting day.

No current plans to seriously attempt publication. It's enough to have done it.

There is a local printer/copy place that does 'perfect binding' (when the cover is wrapped around the copy and glued all along the spline). I print one copy, two pages to a side, four to a sheet (it's an option in Microsoft Office), and take it to the shop with cover art, etc., and they put it all together for me. Twenty-five copies runs about $500 or so depending on the number of pages - mine averaged about 375, in 12 point font -- with an approximate size of 6 inches by 9 (a large paperback). I have the pages printed on heavy stock and the covers are legal size (to allow for the spine)glossy photo paper utilizing a black and white photo, with lettering overlay.

So, cost per copy is around $18 - $20, an amount not unreasonable for Christmas gifts. It would be a lot cheaper, if my wife wasn't one of nine children!

I will put together a list of books for you - my collection runs over 100 titles on hand. Do you prefer fiction or non-fiction? Some of my library is made up of books that can only be aquired in Ireland, but most were purchased here in the US from a variety of sources.
Are you interested in Irish History in general, or do you just wish to know about specific events or periods (for example, The Famine)?

It was while returning from Ireland, in April of 2001, my wife's constant questioning about what her ancestors must have been like haunting the back of my mind, that I first envisioned the idea for SPOKES IN THE WHEEL. I was hurtling along at 35,000 feet, listening to NO WAY HOME and reading Liam O'Donnell's THE DAYS OF THE SERVANT BOY, a first person recollection of the hiring fairs of the '20s and '30s, where farm laborers were herded together, poked and prodded to be determined if the were worthy enough to be hired for the following year for the princely sum of between 18 and 50 pounds (dependant upon age and experience). This is a book I will heartily recommend, but it is also one you will only find in Ireland.
I'll try to put a short list together in a day or two and post it back here.

Bob

Bob, I usually read fiction except when preparing for trips...I read non-fiction if it's written in a very engaging, fascinating style and is pertaining to places I'm travelling to.

I am interested in Ireland from about 1860 to 1917 especially. I am interested in understanding what forces came together to make my Irish grandmother the fascinating person she was...she was a natural-born oral story-teller, and she never told you it was a story, she just started telling the tale like it was true. Of course it was, I believed it! This trait was inherited by one of her daughters, my aunt, and the line betwen Aunt's reality and story-telling always blended in a delightful way. I'm afraid the story-telling skipped my Dad entirely and I inherited his share.

So if you have any books to recommend which would include anything about Irish story-telling that would be great.

I also like to understand the social, economic, political forces which contributed so much hardship to the Irish people and challenged them. And I'd like to understand what drove entire families to emigrate to America, often leaving behind children, cousins, parents, etc.

I'd also like to understand why the Irish love Ireland so much, that even when forced to emigrate, they retained a love of Ireland which I have seen tends to get passed onto their children and grandchildren.

Well, does that help, as far as recommending books for me? Thanks very much Bob!

Melissa5:

A short list, to get you started:

THE BACK OF BEYOND -- James Charles Roy

THE GREAT HUNGER -- Cecil Woodham-Smith

THE GREAT SHAME -- Thomas Kineally

OF IRISH WAYS -- Mary Murray Delaney

THE NEW DUBLINERS -- edited by Oona Frawley

IT'S A LONG WAY FROM PENNEY APPLES -- Bill Cullen

The last two were purchased in Ireland and may not be available stateside. These are all non-fiction, except THE NEW DUBLINERS which is a collection of short stories by contemporary Irish authors emulating the spirit of the original, in contemporary settings, for the most part. It was released this Bloomsday past. I ordered it from a book store in Killarney and had it shipped to me, since it wasn't yet released.

Bob