Documentation for kids.
 

I'm a single mom traveling from the US to Spain in two weeks with my 8 year old daughter. I had to fight with her dad for two months and even get lawyers involved before he would finally sign the consent form for her to get a passport. The State Department says that I also need a notarized letter of permission from him, since he won't be present. I've checked online and have seem some reports of people having to produce such a letter for entry into different countries, in addition to a passport. Has anyone here ever had to produce such a letter in order to gain entry with a child to any country? I've seen mixed reports on the internet and wondered if anyone here had any experience. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi red,

Others have posted about having to have a letter from the other parent giving permission to take the child out of the country.

Check with your lawyer.

((I))

We have always had a notarized letter from my DH's ex, as well as a passport, when we travel out of the country with his daughter.

The letter states consent to travel, as well as consent for medical decisions. We get it just to be on the safe side in case any questions were asked by authorities. We've never been asked for it, but I can see where it might be asked for from time to time.

Yeah, my lawyer has been calling his lawyer and they haven't produced anything yet. My lawyers office keeps telling me they'll let me know when they hear something and I'm getting antsy now, since the trip is so close.

I never had any problems taking my grandchildren out the country.
They even have a different last name.
My grandaughter was only seven years old the first time that I took her to Europe and since then she went back with me 3 times.
Two years ago I took her brother with me, he was only 9 years old.Nobody ever questioned me about me taking my grandchildren abroad.
My daughter is also a single parent and she had to have a notarized consent form from their father to apply for their passports.

redhead, as long as you and your daughter have the same last name on your passports and airline tickets, I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt you'll get asked for additional info by anyone. For all they know your husband is working and you are taking a trip alone with your daughter.

redhead, you really need to have something in writing and especially in your case as your ex is apparently being difficult. You don't want to give him any excuse to have you arrested on trumped up charges upon your return to the US.

From personal experience, if I were you I would reconsider whether or not your trip is important enough to potentially cost thousands of dollars in attorney/court costs and even more hard feelings.

Your lawyer needs to stop calling and send paperwork to be signed. If your ex refuses to sign, you can go to a judge. But, if you have joint legal custody, you have to understand that if your ex won't give his permission, and he doesn't have to, you may be stuck.

Yes, they do ask for this, but not every time. You'll have to resolve it some way ahead of time - not worth the trouble otherwise.

Whether or not your last names are the same, you DO need a notorized letter from the child's non-travelling parent , in addition to a passport, to enable her to LEAVE the country. The rational for this rule (or law) is to prevent child kidnapping. Without such a letter, you run a very real risk of being denied permission to board the plane with her.

If your names are the same, I doubt you'd need a letter authorizing medical treatment. BUT, it couldn't hurt to have one.

I realize it's not ethical, but if your ex hasn't signed as of the afternoon before departure, could you and a male of your acquaintance go to a notary, and your cousin sign your ex's name giving permission, hence getting such a document. The ex would never be the wiser, and you could destroy the document upon return. Maybe you could become a notary within the two weeks, and give yourself permission.

Uhm tomboy, I use to be a Notary. A Notary will (or should) ask for I.D. before Notarizing a signature. If they do not they are then liable if problems arise in the future.

And personal I hardly think a trip is worthwhile getting in legal trouble over due to fraudulant paperwork.

IMHO Barbara has the best solution.
And Iregeo explained the need for the notorized letter correctly.

The best of luck to you redhead. I hope you get everything worked out.

tomboy, that is the stupidest suggestion I have ever seen on this board. What you are suggesting is illegal.

The front page of our local paper today has a story titled: "Man charged in 1994 kidnapping of daughter". If found guilty of felony kidnapping of a minor by a relative, he could face a maximum state prison sentence of 5 years. BTW he took his daughter at age 8 to Jordan when he had permission to take his daughter to Chicago.

Barbara, I've finally got the passport. It's already cost me...well, way too much, just to get that. This is a trip planned for my dad's 70th birthday. This is probably the only time he'll ever get to travel abroad with his grandchild. None of us have ever been to Europe and it's very important to me and my parents.

I'm not going to let my ex dictate my life. I have a right to travel with my child. If it costs me a few thousand, so be it. He's the one that's caused the hard feelings here by alleging that I will not return with my child. We've had an amicable relationship for the last 5 years before I asked him to sign for the passport. He has absolutely no basis for denying me the opportunity to travel abroad with my child, and I will get a court order if I have to.

I just found out that his lawyer's office has misunderstood what the letter was for. They thought I was asking for a letter so I could get the passport. Okay, I don't understand it either, but I think it's cleared up now. If I don't hear anything back by Monday I'll ask my lawyer to write the letter and send it over for him to sign.

No, I'm not going to get someone to forge his signature. He knows I need this letter and I'm not going to risk him finding out and turning me in on that. No way.

Get the letter if possible.
My daughter travelled to Europe several times alone and/or with her grandparents without questions but the only time she had to fly only with my husband he was asked for a permission letter from me. The letter was required in order to be permitted to board the plane. Luckily we had it done.

redhead, I'm glad to hear that you have had a good relationship with your ex except for this. Have you had an opportunity to talk to him yourself to explain to him the purpose of the trip? Perhaps the whole thing is a matter of him feeling you're trying to do whatever you want and not acknowledge his rights. I don't mean to suggest that that is what you are doing, but sometimes these roadblocks start because of seemingly insignificant things. Is it possible for you to talk to him directly, rather than through his lawyers? They have a way of making things much more complicated than they need to be. Got to justify those fees! For all you know, they may have told him you want to live in Spain!

You're right, you should be able to do all those things, but you have to try to get that amicable relationship back for your daughter's sake. Good luck.

Yes Barbara. I asked him myself. He refused to talk about it and told me that I "might as well forget it" because he had no intention of signing. After several conversations where he wouldn't tell me what his concerns were, I decided to contact my lawyer. It came out, through our lawyers, that he was afraid I was going to Europe with my child and boyfriend, who happens to be Czech, and that I wasn't going to come back.

I explained to him *before* the involvement of the lawyers that the trip was for my parents, my daughter and myself. We had to sit down with a mediator and talk about his outrageous demands, most involving my boyfriend's passport and travel documents, oh and a $5million bond that he wanted me to purchase. He finally signed the consent form without any "strings attached." So I think what it boils down to, is that he's jealous or insecure or something that, after 5 years, I have a boyfriend. LOL!!

I know we need to be friendly with each other, but his behavior on this is makind it awfully hard. This one isn't going to blow over easily.

Thanks Barbara!

You're most likely right. I hope it all works out well for you.

I feel for you redhead. Sounds like your ex and my DH's ex would make good mates. ;) His ex also used to imply that we would take the child out of the country and never return with her, hence the reason we would request the notarized letter of authorization to travel. She made our annual overseas visits with the daughter very difficult, but thank goodness she would sign the letter of consent for us. Some people can just be so unreasonable.

I agree that it's probably best to have the letter if he is giving you this much grief, but unfortunately I can't offer any other suggestions on how to get it. Could your attorney perhaps have something notarized stating the situation and that your ex refused to grant consent? I guess that would mean it might be illegal to take the child out of the country, though, if you readily admit consent was not granted.

I would hate to think that he could cause you problems on your trip so I hope something gets worked out.

Keep the faith...it gets better down the road after some water passes under the bridge. After fourteen years of her hostility and vindictiveness we are finally on good terms with my DH's ex, so there is hope! :)

This will probably be an unpopular view but I don't think ex-husband is being entirely unreasonable.

Since you have a Czech boyfriend I would want some assurance other than a promise that my daughter would return.

jsmith, my boyfriend has nothing to do with the trip. He's not going and never had any intention of going. I provided my ex with an itinterary, copies of the tickets, the phone numbers of the places that we're staying, a letter from my mother.

I've never, ever denied a request by my ex to see my daughter, nor have I ever threatened to take her away. He has no reason at all to believe that I would flee the country out of the blue, to live in a place that I've never been to. I have a job that I've had for five years, my own small buisness, a house. I'm firmly rooted. I find the whole idea ridiculous.

Even if my boyfriend was going on the trip, I still think it's ridiculous. If I end up marrying this guy we will be making trips to visit his family. Yeah, that's going to go over well! LOL!!

I can understand that he would have some concerns about the trip. I would too. But I believe that he also has a right to travel with his daughter and unless there was some reason for me to believe he had some ill intention (i.e. quitting his job, selling his house, not bringing daughter back after visits) I wouldn't deny him that right. I have bent over backwards to try to make him comfortable with it. And he still says that he doesn't trust me when he has no reason not to.

I also believe that this is a good opportuinity for my daughter. I want her to be exposed to different cultures, languages, art, and she's excited about it too! :)

Eeek...what an uncomfortable situation.
My DH does not have the best relationship with his ex, but she did not stand in the way of us taking the2 daugthers (my stepdauthers), mostly because they were so excited about the trip they would have annoyed here to death if they could not have gone.

With regards to the notarized letter...we had one with us signed by the ex and were NEVER asked to show it either leaving the US to fly to Italy, or when entering Italy. I think if you are travelling as man/women & child, they just assume both are the parents.

It sounds like your father and daugther (and you!) are going to have a great time! Enjoy...and good luck working out this other stuff beforehand.

Good luck, Redhead.

For what it's worth: my parents were traveling with my niece to Mexico. They had a notarized letter from her mom, who has custody. The airline wouldn't let them board without a letter from her dad, who is non-custodial. Better safe than sorry.

When we booked a Disney cruise earlier in the year, my travel agent advised me to get a notarized letter from my ex-husband granting permission for me to take my son out of the country. When all tickets arrived, there was an official form included to allow such authorization. I went ahead and had my ex complete it and I'm glad that I did as they did ask for it. I can't imagine how upset my son would have been if we found at that moment that we couldn't go because I didn't have the proper authorization. On a previous trip to England, I didn't have one, and they never asked but just in case, I always will in the future. Good luck to you and have a fabulous vacation with your family!

BlueSwimmer, that's awful. I really don't want to get into that kind of situation. I guess they would have needed documents saying that the mother was the sole custodian? In that case she wouldn't need his permission for anything.

Ugh! It just drives me nuts that these days it's pretty much assumed that you're up to something devious unless you can prove otherwise. I mean, I know why, but damn, how many hoops do you have to jump through just to go on vacation?? *sigh*

Hi redhead, I think this started when the story entitled something like "Not Without My Daughter" came out years ago. Believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) the movie was played by Sally Fields.

An American woman married a man from Iran. They married and had a daughter. The husband took the daughter to Iran to visit his family but refused to return to the US.

It seems to me that is when the publicity came out regarding one parent leaving the US without any intention of returning the child to the US.

We all pay one way or another for the few that do illegal things. That is why security is so stringent (but maybe not efficient) at airports. After April 14th no lighters or matches will be allowed on planes. Evidently because of the British citizen who had matches and tried to make a bomb out of his atheletic shoes on a flight.

We pay more for goods in stores due to shoplifters and employee thefts etc.

We pay more then we should in insurance premiums because of
insurance fraud.

And IMHO some (not all of course) exspouses have a control issue. Even if they were the major factor in a divorce they still want to control their exspouse.

All one can do is follow the law, in your case somehow getting that notorized letter from you ex by whatever legal means you can and then just go about your business and with your plans. Again I wish you the best of luck.

LoveItaly, you are right about the movie and Sally Fields playing the lead. That was a wonderful film, and the book was even better. It is a shame that things can become so difficult with travel, but in this day and age I can also see why.

I am an American living In London with four children. I have travelled in and out of the US many times with kids but without my husband. I have also flown around Europe with the kids sans husband.

Only one time have I been asked about my husband and that was coming INTo the US. The kids have been asked at check in once or twice "does your dad know you're flying today?" Kids say yes, day goes on.

Is there something in her passport that "marks" your daughter as a child of divorced parents? I agree that it doesn;t hurt to be safe, but I've never had any trouble.

Hi Statia, I found the book fantastic too, but what a scary story, especially knowing it was true.

Thanks for the verification that it was Sally Fields. Do you ever feel like your brain has so many facts that sometimes it just shuts down?

LoveItaly says: "Do you ever feel like your brain has so many facts that sometimes it just shuts down?"

All the time my dear, all the time.

Hihgledge, I'm not sure that there's anything "marking" my daughter as a child of divorced parents. I don't know if there is such a thing. But my ex said in mediation that he had put a "hold" on it years ago though, meaning that I wouldn't get it because he told them not to issue it. But it turned out to be a lie as I got the passport in four days with the expedited service.

I'm going to do my best to get the letter anyway. I won't feel good traveling without it knowing I might get asked for it. What a headache.

I'm sorry for your troubles and I hope everything works out for you.

I took my 9 yr old daughter to Italy last year and no one asked for a letter. I'm really glad because I never even thought about getting one! My husband had to sign a form for her to get the passport so it never occurred to me that I might also need a letter.

I do remember boarding a flight to Cancun, Mexico and a mom/teen aged daughter weren't allowed to board without the ex's permission. She had the divorce decree showing she had full custody but that wasn't enough.

Thanks for bring this to attention of everyone and good luck.

Hi sundowner, from what I have read and learned Mexico is one of the countries that insist in every case that the single parent has a notorized letter from the other parent giving permission for travelling into Mexico. Some other countries also in Central and South America.

But I cannot remember which ones.

See, seetheworld, a brain drain again! Thanks for making me feel better. LOL!

From what I understand when travelling with a child into western Europe you may or may not be asked for the letter.
It seems as though the countries that have had a problem with a parent taking their child into their home country without permission of the other parent are the countries that you can expect to be asked to produce the notorized letter.

But, any country does have the right to. And evidently airlines do also. It is up to the airline to make sure all documents are in order before they allow you to board.

So I would not want to take the chance of being at the airport and have the problem of being refused boarding a plane for lack of this letter.

Yes, sundowner, why would you think that you needed a letter in addition to a passport? Afterall the person you need the letter from had to give consent to get the passport. I don't think it's widely known that this letter is needed. The airline certainly isn't telling people that they need it. And it's barely mentioned on the State Department website and not mentioned at all in the passport application. I don't think I would have known about it if I hadn't had the trouble I've had getting the passport because I wouldn't have been looking up info on the web.

Hi redhead, one question (although it is of course none of my business) but I can't help but wonder.

At least in California most divorce agreements and children issues state in the final divorce agreement that the parent has to have a notorized letter from the other parent to take the child even out of the state they are residing in.

Now perhaps that is not true in other states. But I couldn't help but wonder if your final divorce papers spell this out.

I notice that no-one has tried to answer your original question. 24 hours - and lots of answers to quite different questions - later, no-one has surfaced to say they've been asked by a European country to demonstate an arriving foreign child's freedom to travel.

From which we might safely conclude that no European country has such a rule.

But, if you're still worried and you're planning only to travel to Spain, wouldn't it be (and wouldn't it have been) more productive simply to telephone your nearest Spanish embassy or consulate? Or, if they're closed, to consult their website?

Put me down as another single parent who has never been asked for such a letter, though we haven't been to Spain. I travel with my late husband's death certificate (and the kids' birth certificates to connect it all) just in case.

Looking at my kids' passports (issued in early 2001), I see no evidence of parental marital status, etc. In fact, there's not even a complete address, just our state.

If I were in your shoes, and couldn't get the letter, I'd go anyway. If questioned, I'd just tell the airline that this nice older gentleman I'm traveling with is her dad (but get your stories straight first).

LoveItaly, no we don't have anything in our agreement about taking her out of the state. We were divorced before this law came into effect about having to have both parents consent for traveling out of the country. And actually our agreement states that as the primary custodian *I* get to make decisions involving travel and if ex doesn't like my decision than he can take me to court over it. But getting him to sign something or provide a letter that he doesn't want to, isn't so easy and I've had to face the possiblity of taking him to court over it. Luckily it hasn't come to that. Yet.

Flanneruk, the US State Department website states that you "may need" a letter to enter Spain. I've tried emailing the Spanish consulate and no one ever responded. I tried calling them (in Miami) once at two different numbers I found on the web and there was no answer. I don't know why. I've looked at a few different Spanish government sites and can't find any info about it.