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Do European politics affect your travel choices?
My dear friend will no longer travel to France and Germany (and Canada) because of their political views pre-Iraq war. Even though French friends just visited here, she will not reciprocate, says she will not spend money there. Will now only visit, England, Italy, Spain, etc. I am not interested in any political discussion ...this not the place, just simple "yes" or "no" as to whether you let world views influence your travels much.
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No. Why would I want to avoid/punish/reward individual people in a country just because I agree/disagree with the policies of the government? What if I disagree with what my own country does? Would I move away so that I wouldn't have to spend money here? One of the best things about travel is that you can temporarily escape irritating realities, including politics.
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At present, there is no country in Europe I'd refuse to visit due to government policies.
I can't say the policies of a government would <i>never</i> affect my decision. If there was, for example, a government similar to that of Nazi Germany, and we were free to travel to that country, I'd choose not to. |
Yes. Much as I enjoy the sights and many of the people, I just cannot bear to visit the United States nowadays, though three of my siblings live south of the border -- NYC, Washington DC and Houston, respectively. We have our family reunions back home, in Canada.
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No, not in the least. I think it is so important to see as much of the world as possible, and political differences are not going stop me. Having said that, I will admit to avoidance when it comes to countries where terrorism and other forms of violence are prevalent.
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tedgale... :)
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A prolonged economic boycott has done nothing to resolve political differences between the US and Cuba. So, if it's failed on a national level, should I have any reason to believe it would be any more successful on an individual one? No. Safety concerns? Maybe.
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Yes,
France, Germany and Canada. But that leave the rest of the world! |
Leelani, I'm not sure why you'd ask such a question if you didn't want to start a political discussion. Why would the attitude of other Americans make a difference to your travel plans?
Your friend had better stay home. Only two countries, Britain and Australia, joined in the initial invasion of Iraq, and a majority of Britons and Australians opposed, and continue to oppose, their governments' actions. Better punish us too. And you could look at it this way: given the cost in America's lives, money and reputation, in reality the French and Germans were trying to do Americans a favour. Reward them! Seriously, though, your friend's views betray a worrying tendency to believe that France, Germany or any other country can be America's allies only if they uncritically support anything and everything that America chooses to launch. That's a petulant demand for vassals, not partners. Good partners and friends sometimes tell you things that you might not want to hear but should, and they try to deter you from doing things that they believe are not in your best interests. Should they be punished for that? I agree with Carmen and capo. Most countries engage in practices that I disapprove of - and that includes America's use of capital punishment, which didn't stop me enjoying my time in the US, nor liking Americans. But then, I strongly disapprove of some of my own country's behaviours. |
I would not travel to a country who's INTERNAL politics I found objectionable (e.g. South Africa during apartide, Saudi Arabia and other states that deny women or minorities basic human rights). These criteria are not applicable to any European nation, as far as I am aware.
I consider a country's foreign policy their own business and, unless it infringes on the rights of another nation, it would never stop me going there. I live in Canada and very happy I do. regards Ger |
No, if I let politics rule my travel agenda I wouldnt get the chance to travel anywhere. I still enjoy the US, UK, Spain, Russia etc., even with their political issues.
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Perhaps you can convince your friend to go to France and Germany anyway, as their reasons for being not in favour of the war had absolutely nothing to do with peace and love and understanding, but with their own economical advantages (Sadam still owes Germany oil for weapons they delivered in the war against Iran, if I'm not mistaken, and France has it's own big oil companies involved in Irak and would hate to see them get in American hands). So she'll be glad to see they're just as bad as the US :-) By the way, most of the population of the European countries that were in favour, were protesting against their governments, so she shouldn't expect big hurrah's in let's say England, Spain or Italy. And as for my own Belgium being opposed to it... that was probably because it was afraid of big brothers France and Germany :-)
And NO, it wouldn't let me stop visiting any country. I would even go to the USA :-) |
My mother (who is a self-made millionaire) taught me to separate the personalities from the deal. In other words, even if you despise your counterpart in a business deal, you do the deal if it benefits YOU. I have long adhered to this principle, holding my nose when necessary, and never regretted it.
I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't visit a country so long as my personal safety were not at risk. |
"Do European politics affect your travel choices?"
No, there are no political considerations like this that apply to countries in Europe for me. I often find that when I'm listening to someone who says that these things should be a consideration, I'm dealing with a person who confuses blind, unquestioning policy agreement to be synonymous with "patriotism" and has a 'love it or leave it' mentality. |
As much as I love France, I think it would be difficult for me to enjoy it as much if Jean-Marie Le Pen is ever president. I am curious, Leelani--now that Spain is withdrawing from the U.S-led coalition, will your friend stop traveling there? |
Only if they are actively shooting at each other :D
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elle, we were in Siena in 2002 when we found out about Le Pen shocking France by edging out Lionel Jospin, Chirac's Socialist prime minister. Then we were in Nice in early May when Chirac soundly thrashed Le Pen, 82 percent to 18 percent. And I fell in love with the people who run "my" hotel there even more when I saw them cheering for Chirac (I wasn't sure since Le Pen's base is in Provence.)
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No.
Like the American politics do not change my mind or my plans for the near future. |
capo, of that 82 percent, how many do you think were shaking their heads and saying, "<i>Merde! </i> I can't believe I'm voting for Jaques Chirac." Nothing like a xenophobic fascist to inspire voter turnout ;). |
sfowler.<Only if they are actively shooting at each other
> Now I know you've been in a place or 2 where they have been doing just that!! |
Has anyone else noticed: almost 20 responses to a political question and all we have is a thought-provoking, mature, civil discussion? Why can't they all be like this?
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Undoubtedly, more than a few, elle. Shaking their heads <i>and</i> holding their Gallic noses...which, I guess, would tie in with the "Merde!" :)
I remember reading about Jospin urging all of his supporters to vote for his rival Chirac. You know that classic Arab saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"! Le Pen did get almost one out of five votes which, although qualifying for a sound thrashing in my <i>livre</i>, is still a bit scary. |
Jocelyn, I fear that civil tone may soon change. . . |
Only goverments that violate human rights would I boycott. Currently I would steer clear of myanmar and north korea, possibly some middle eastern and african countries people especially women are treated poorly.
Peronally I would not be surprised if many europeans and others are not going to go to america beacuase of the government. Recent events make the US look so poorly overseas( no WMD, prisoner abuses, lack of funding for our own army). the prisoner abuses is a human rights violation and it is aboslutly disgusting - it makes america look so badly in the eyes of other countries. So many people in the US have worked so hard for the rights of people in China, Myanmar , and other 3rd world countries only to be spit on by the current administration -it makes americans look like the hugest hypocrites Also last time I was in Europe (may 2003) I felt the Italians had much more disdain for americans than the french. The french were quite friendly |
><i>Le Pen did get almost one out of five votes which. . . is still a bit scary. Agreed. But voter turnout was low for the original run-off election. Which is probably to be expected from the moderates, but was somewhat surprising from the left. I think there's a lesson learned, though. I doubt the left will be quite so apathetic again. When we were in Languedoc-Roussillon last year, we saw a disturbing amount of pro Le Pen graffiti. </i> |
Yes. I would not go to France, Germany or Canada now. Too many other superb choices out there. Italy and Poland get my time and money this year. Will re-evaluate the situation next year.
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Sorry for the italics. I'm really not leaning to the right, either literally or figuratively. |
Neal, the attitudes of other Americans will not affect MY travel plans. I'm simply asking Fodorites, American or not, if their choice of travel destination is affected by the way the political winds are blowing.
Elle, I don't know if the situation with Spain will influence my friend's future plans. I will respect whatever decisions she makes....... It is her money, her vacation. Thanks for all the replies........ very interesting. |
I'm actually a big proponent of voting with one's wallet. I won't shop at Wal-Mart or Home Despot, buy anything from Polaroid, do my best to buy cruelty-free and pesticide-free products, look for clothing made in countries where workers are paid a fair wage (do you know how difficult that is?), and do patronize businesses that treat their employees and communities well. It may not make a big difference to these companies, but if enough people did it, think of the difference we could collectively make. So if your friend's values dictate that they can't go to France, then at least they're being true to their values (plus its one less person for me to compete with for a table at a popular restaurant). |
Elle,
Just out of curiosity - what is your beef with Home Depot (other than really bad customer service) and Polaroid (which is actually bankrupt and was bought by bank one) |
European politics do not affect my decision, nor do American politics. However there are some countries in the world where women are forced to wear veils and have few rights. I have no intention of ever visiting such a country until this situation changes. Thank God most of those countries are not of interst to most tourists anyway.
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Home Depot supports a lot of causes that I oppose; I'll never forgive Polaroid execs for raiding retirees pensions before going into bankruptcy. To me, it's become a tainted brand, no matter who owns it now. And I did just read something about Bank One the other day. . . aren't they being acquired by someone? It's hard to keep track of who owns what these days. |
<i>Sorry for the italics. I'm really not leaning to the right, either literally or figuratively.</i>
HaHa...c'est magnifique! And "Home Despot" :) So would a guy like Saddam be a Homme Despot? |
One of the interesting things along these lines is the current American fascination with things Japanese. Sixty years ago, they bombed the United States on its own soil. Today we drive Japanese cars, buy Japanese electronics, and sushi and sake are all the range. How long did it take us to forget that pain and embrace Japan? |
European politics don't affect my travel choices, but they do my husband's. That's how my trip to Normandy, May of '03, got morphed into a trip to Aruba. :-(
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Of course Stardust is right, France and Russia at least didn't act out of altruism - but then, it should now be blindingly obvious to all that the Bush administration's objectives were not as claimed either. The person whose motivation I really have trouble understanding is Tony Blair, whose distinguished career is now imploding because of his support for Bush.
When our kids were small and would try to justify some silly behaviour on the grounds that "Justin did it" we'd ask, "So, if Justin jumped off a cliff you'd follow him, would you?" Well, none of this is permanent. I think it was that great American president George Washington who said that a nation can have no permanent friends or permanent enemies - only permanent interests. At the risk of wearing out my welcome, I just came across these words by a fairly successful president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, who these days would probably be seen as a total wimp: "Now, look, I happen to know a little about leadership ... and I tell you this: you do not lead by hitting people over the head. Any damn fool can do that, but it's usually called 'assault', not 'leadership' ... I'll tell you what leadership is. It's persuasion - and conciliation - and patience. It's long, slow, tough work. That's the only sort of leadership I know or believe in - or will practice." |
I'm in a bit of bind on this one. My wife, who was born in the UK when her dad was a grad student there, is an Amglophile, so I'm sure we'll visit. However, I'm reluctant to go to a country that supports the war in Irag.
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><i>"So, if Justin jumped off a cliff you'd follow him, would you?" </i> Our version of this momism (on the East Coast of the U.S.) was "So if everybody jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?" I wonder if kids in the west of the U.S. heard "If everybody jumped off the Golden Gate. . . " and kids in the South of France heard "If Jean-Baptiste jumped off the Pont du Gard, would you?" And Neil, you could never wear out your welcome, as far as I'm concerned. |
Why even inquire? Then demand that no one get "political", though your "dear friend" excludes destinations based upon "political views".
As mentioned above, locals everywhere you go have little, if anything, to do with international "politics", particularly considering that few residents, if any, all about the world have anything to do with the involvement or perceived politics of their government leaders with international affairs, or even bother to vote, if they have the opportunity. More important, when choosing where to travel, are: Safety, Air Fares, Exchange Rates, and appeal of the destination, for heavens sake. I cannot imagine that any reasonable person selects a travel/vacation destinations based upon their personal "political views". Please elaborate on exactly whose "political views"... I, personally, do not, necessarily, accept the "political views" of any country, it's leaders, as presented by any media organization, any/none of which hardly represents the "political views" of the multitude of ordinary citizens. I'm just wondering here, do you and/or your "dear friend" avoid traveling to states in the USA, where the electoral votes went to the other candidate in the last election??? Most folks are not even the least bit involved in LOCAL politics. Do you or your "dear friend" determine where you will live based upon your "political views". I cannot imagine excluding glorious travel destinations based upon assumed/perceived "political views". Life is way too short to worry about such nonsense. |
Hear! Hear!
Couldn't have said better myself. |
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