Detailed Itinerary..A US thing?
 

I've noticed that many of the questions on the boards are around itineraries. The level of detail and ambition in some are truly exhausting to look at.

A couple of questions come to mind. Have any you had your holiday spoiled by an itinerary that tried to pack in too much in the time available? Has anyone felt they saw all the sights but didn't experience the place? Is this way of travelling in Europe a particulary American phenomenon?

Hi W,

I always make a very detailed itinerary, knowing that I am not going to do the whole thing.

I'm happier having too much planned than wondering about what to do next.

What I don't understand is people who pay large bucks to get to Europe in the expectation that they will "wing it".

((I))

Author: ira

"What I don't understand is people who pay large bucks to get to Europe in the expectation that they will "wing it"."

Hi Ira

So do you think this behaviour is a function of cost and distance travelled?

It's a personality "thing." Not some sort of a nationality-related "thing." Though I would guess that the greater the distance one must travel and the higher cost to get there would also enter into it.

<Have any you had your holiday spoiled by an itinerary that tried to pack in too much in the time available?>

So far, so good!

<Has anyone felt they saw all the sights but didn't experience the place?>

Nope! We limit ourselves to a certain number of sights or activities in a given day and then leave time to just wander, as this is my favorite part of any trip.

<Is this way of travelling in Europe a particulary American phenomenon?>

I thought it was a female thing. I am an American female, and I thrive on lists and post-it notes!

I would rather plan out an itinerary than have a trip spoiled because it wasn't thought through. Plus, I have fun doing it, and, while it drives my husband crazy he always appreciates it once we are there!

I think it might be an American thing.

I don't know any Europeans travelling in the other direction that plan so much. But maybe there are indeed some and my friends maybe aren't great planners.

Do you take money out of the bank, go to a large car lot and 'wing' it when you buy a car?

It does seem to be an American obsession. I live in London and, when I travel around Europe, I usually change my plans from day to day depending on the weather and all kinds of factors. I do take guide books, maps, a Thomas Cook timetable, phrase books and pocket dictionaries, and I can use the internet to access more information.
How would anyone with a precise itinerary cope if they'd planned to visit Oxford or Gloucester this week? I was in Germany once when the Rhine was flooded so I visited other parts of Germany, read the newspapers every day, and returned to the Rhine after the water had receded.

On a long distance trip (Vietnam, for example), I make a tentative schedule of the cities I plan to visit, trying to leave a margin if I want to stay an extra day or two somewhere -- but I make no sightseeing, hotel or meal plans other than keeping a guidebook handy. If I can't improvise, I don't feel like I am on vacation.

Hi Geoff,
>I live in London and, when I travel around Europe, I usually change my plans from day to day...<

Go ahead, rub it in. :)

You aren't visiting Europe, you are already in Europe.

>How would anyone with a precise itinerary cope if they'd planned to visit Oxford or Gloucester this week?<

The same way you would. That's called "contingency planning".

((I))

I'm an American. I go with a general idea of want to do's. Then as Geoff said, I've not set myself up to be disappointed because I'm being inflexible and weather or strikes or whatnot will have their way. Besides, I think remaining flexible has openned doors to really pleasant surprises - serendipity, if you will. These surprises give my vacation ooomph and it is these things that I can chat about or remember most avidly.

by the way, love the screenname

Hi W,

>So do you think this behaviour is a function of cost and distance travelled?<

Nope. I (the planner) and they (the wingers) are traveling about the same distance and will spend about the fraction of our income.

A major difference is that I will have good accomodations at low rates because I planned.

They will stay wherever is available at whatever they have to pay (usually).

In addition, while I am enjoying my dinner, because I made reservations, they will be standing on line waiting for me to leave.

Etc.

((I))

I don't know whether the urge arises by nationality, sex or age but I don't really share it. I learned years ago that I am constitutionally unable to absorb more than two or three tourist activities a day. Aside from noting the hours and days places are open, we let our mood dictate the day.

We do reserve hotels and once in a while, restaurants.

If you (I'm assuming you're European) plan a trip to the US do just wing it, or do you plan an itinerary?
When we're paying over $1000 for plane tickets, I want to make sure we "get in" everything we want, because we won't be able to return for a while. I'm not neccessarily talking about cramming too much in a short time, because my itinerary includes whole afternoons of wandering around, getting lost, etc. But without an itinerary, we might leave something that is closed on our last day to the last day, only to find out we can't do it at all.

I have never been convinced that all of the "itinerary posts" seen here necessarily have anything to do with what actually occurs once people get there.

Some people seem to enjoy posting proposed itineraries to get comments. I'm always amused by those who "ask permission" {"Is it OK to do this?")

I agree that traveling with a "well-planned" itinerary could hardly be exclusive to people from one country. I don't even think it is exclusive to people who post here since there are obviously hundreds of people who post here and travel who never share any itinerary at all with the rest of us.

Thanks for the responses so far.
Suzie said

>Besides, I think remaining flexible has openned doors to really pleasant surprises - serendipity, if you will. These surprises give my vacation ooomph and it is these things that I can chat about or remember most avidly<

This has been my experience too. Thanks for the kind remarks about the screen name.

Hi Ira

I'm not suggesting for a second that I don't research the places I'm going to or check websites for good restaurant recs ar good hotel rates. Thats just good sense. What I'm talking about is people who very detailed agendas for each day. Its a bit like tourist bingo! 9.00 AM Buck Palace, 10AM Big Ben, 11AM London Eye ... house!:-)

Like Lawchick and Geoff most of the people I know and most of my friends and family seem to travel with a much looser daily schedule. When I've had relatives over from the States watching them in action has been fascinating, like a military campaign, very intense.

Speaking from the British way of travelling, you will find a lot of them will be happy with a package deal to Majorca where they can kick off their shoes, dump the kids in a creche at the hotel and spend the next two weeks getting hammered ;-) and if theres not a fish n chip shop in the immediate vicinity, washed down with a pint of lager they won't be interested LOL!!!

Of course Im not talking about the esteemed British folk that visit here

I of course have my lodging set. I don't worry about restaurants, not really a foodie in that sense. When I was in Paris last year I just had a list of places I wanted to see and then each morning my friend and I would check the list, see what area of the city it was in, what else might be there that would interest us, and then took off for the day. We usually had a late luch and then spent the rest of the day wandering around. It worked perfectly for me.

Some of the itineraries I see posted here just wear me out reading them, and often these are the same people that discourage people from taking tours because they are trying to cram too much into one day. I like to have a vacation, not be on a death march. (:

I'm from the US and while I do have an itinerary we keep it very flexible. Mostly we just choose where we want to base ourselves and for how long and then go from there. We don't "wing it" too much, mostly because we spend so much time and money getting to Europe that we don't want to waste time trying to figure out where to stay once we get there. But no, we do not plan each detail each day on what we are going to do. That takes a lot of the fun out of it, and in the end I just end up stressed because I didn't get to do it all. By leaving the itinerary open it allows for unexpected suprises and some relaxation.

Tracy

Hi W,

>What I'm talking about is people who very detailed agendas for each day. Its a bit like tourist bingo! 9.00 AM Buck Palace, 10AM Big Ben, 11AM London Eye ... house!:-)...<

Of course these folks can't stick to their schedules. I usually advise them that they should take time to pick the roses.

I don't think that it is a particularly American thing, as I have seen busloads of tourists from many nationalities being herded around and urged to keep moving so that they can get on to the next stop.

((I))

I like traveling with my friend DPF. We have traveled several times with him and his wife and other couples.

He does a lot of background reading (history, culture, architecture, etc) and knows what we all like (Romanesque churches, long lunches with strong flavors, etc.)

Then every night he sits down with the guidebook and map does three itineraries for the next day, depending on weather, distance, and level of energy. In the morning, if nothing has changed, we get to vote for one of the three -- no alternatives except staying home.

It works beautifully. There is general guidance but complete flexibility on a day to day basis.

When I go to the US I wing it. I book the first night's hotel so I have an address for the visa waiver forms, and book a hire car for the duration. Then I see where I end up. I never plan it down to the day let alone the hour. Even driving rte 66 we knew we had to get to LA by a certain date, to get the plane home, and wanted to (mostly) follow rte 66, but apart from the first night in Chicago nothing else was booked or planned. Great!
It would drive me mad thinking I had to leave a place I really liked because my itinerary said it's Tuesday so I have to visit x.
In Europe we tend to book a house for a week and use it as a base to explore from, rather than touring, but we have done trips where we have a house booked for the second week, and potter down to it the first week, or vice versa. We are doing that in September with the house in Scotland. After a week there we are pottering down through England and back across the Channel for a further potter back to Holland.

Ira, I don't think you should be encouraging people to pick roses that don't belong to them...

Maybe you meant "sniff the roses"?

I do a lot of preparation before I travel, and that includes studying guide books, maps, web sites, etc, and trying to learn the language and customs of the places I'm visiting. I like to buy newspapers every day (if I can understand the language), partly to keep abreast of what's happening in the world, and partly to learn about the local weather and things like floods and strikes that might affect my plans. Ideally, I'd like to know enough of the language to ask directions or make simple phone calls.
I do not not plan which meals I'm going to eat, because I cannot know in advance what sort of meal I might want: I might be tempted by a big lunch and have a snack in the evening or vice versa; I might want a stodgy meal if it's cool or something light if it's hot.

I suppose its what people want out of their travel experience. I generally want to holiday - ie relax quite a bit whereas some others want to sightsee a lot.

If I'm going to a big city, ie New York, I do tend to book certain restaurants in advance. Often I have a few restaurants booked and no hotel.
Yes, I am a foodie.
I usually bring one travel guide, and the Michelin red book. Generally, most restaurants etc we book when we get to wherever we are going.

I have never looked up a train timetable or booked a taxi in advance of a trip.

However, between hubby and I we speak about 7 languages so we can generally manage almost everywhere.

I guess I'm with those that semi-wing it. I have a general idea of where I want to go, but am flexable enough to change my plans if something better comes along. I like to have the ability to stay longer or to cut the visit short. Last spring we had reservations for the first week of a seven week trip, after that we usually found lodging the day of or the day before arriving at any given location.

Yes, I did lots of research before the trip, but I don't like being locked into being somewhere on Tuesday. Of course with seven weeks it would really be hard to have a set timetable. As for lines a restaurants, we never had a problem and only made reservations for dinner one time.

You can see my trip report here:

http://www.slowtrav.com/tr/tripreport.asp?tripid=1259

Photos here:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho...p;conn_speed=1

Maybe its all a just a difference in energy level and personality. Like Pausanius I really prefer to see one or two sights a day and spend the rest of the day with good food, perhaps a wee drink and watch the world go by.

Also, like Ackislanders friend, I like to read as much as possible about the places I'm visiting before I go. Just adds to the cultural immersion.

I'm off to Prague for 5 days next week and have a similar trip to Paris at the the start of December. Prague's a first time for me but about 10th to Paris. It will be the first time I've been in Winter so I will be asking questions on what to expect.

I'll confess I do start to re-visit hisory books. 7 Ages of Paris is a bit dry...this is taking me literally years to finish.

I see plenty of European and Asian tourists traipsing through the LA area, bagging all the sites...Beverly Hills, Universal Studios, Hollywood Blvd, Venice Beach. It's the same in San Francisco.

They all look like they have pretty intense itineraries, to me.

I was just in Hondarribia, My wife and son asked me what we were doing tomorrow and I told them if it is cloudy we are going to St. Jean de Luz and if it is sunny we are going to San Sabastian. Like Ira said, contingency planning.... We ended up in St. Jean.

thereyet

Thereyet I have a similar strategy, if its raining I'll drink inside the bar and if it s sunny outside :-)

It depends on whether it's a new place or an old favorite. For an old favorite when I know what I've seen and have an idea what I haven't, I will make very detailed plans. If it is a new place, especially one that is not a city so not as many 'must see's, I will wing it (have lodging and know which day I'm going) In general I do think it is a personality thing. I am a planner because I like to have some control (knowing you never really have control) I am such a planner I have trips planned up through 2023!!!!

Vicky said
>I am such a planner I have trips planned up through 2023!!!!<

LOL! But have you made reservations yet!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's an American Fodorite thing. I think many Americans don't plan this obsessively. Fodorites are mostly here because they can't stop thinking about their trips and researching and planning and talking.

Personally, I'm more of a winger. :-)

<<< Detailed Itinerary..A US thing? >>>

No - Ozzies go in for that sort of thing as well. Doesn't seem to happen with Canucks, Kiwi's or Saffers though

Grasshopper, you make a good point: on this site, planning is genetic - even if it's just mental planning.

<< if its raining I'll drink inside the bar and if it s sunny outside >>

Pretty funny, WIDKT.

I like an itinerary, and I like to be able to fit it on one very small page. I don't keep an hour-to-hour calendar at home, so am not likely to do that while traveling. Good to know what days certain things are closed, when you need to check in or out. I'll probably have a separate list of recommended sights and restaurants, plus things I hope to get in on the trip, possibly a couple of things I MUST do, any friends I may have arranged to meet. But I enjoy re-making the plan the night before.

We see a lot of discussion about not overpacking - I apply the same rule to my agenda. Some things must go by the clock (concert tickets, timed museum entrances, trains), so it's nice to let the others develop as I go. It's a lot easier to be on time when you need to be if you don't have to be on time 24 hours a day.

I think that more than just personality comes into play. On our most recent trip, I would have had serious problems had I not done my research and made accomodation reservations ahead of time - we were a group of 6 with one of the 6 being my 75 year old mother. It was important for the enjoyment of everyone on the trip that we have the correct room and bed arrangements. Also when you are dealing with a larger group, it is a good idea to have some idea of the types of things everyone would like to do so that you can make sure that each individual gets to do some of the things that are most important to them. That being said, having a larger group also works better if people are flexible with when they get to see or do something specific.

I'm a big planner, but that doesn't mean we have to do everything on our itinerary on the day I plan it.

We went to London earlier in the month and I planned on visiting Hampton Court and Hever Castles. The kids weren't thrilled with Hampton Court, so we didn't go to Hever. Went to British Museum instead...so glad we changed our plans!!

After driving around, we decided to also not go to the Cotswolds - were a bit tired of driving (and getting lost) so I researched some nearby villages to Bath and we stopped by Castle Combe and Lacock - another thing I'm really glad we did.

We've hit rock slides that closed our planned highway travel in Yellowstone and Banff. Both detours took us miles out of the way, but on both trips we discovered new places we would not have seen on our "planned" itinerary.

I've seen too many examples of poor planning. Our friends who book at the last minute, or not early enough, do not secure FF tix, or have to use 50,000 miles to fly only 1,000 miles. A neighbor waited too long to book airline tix and ended up spending an extra $1,000. Another didn't plan early enough for a Disney vacation over spring break and ended up paying major $$$ to stay in the Grand Floridian - the only on site hotel available at that late of a date.

I was talking to another friend who has a week off in Aug. He's thinking of the Grand Canyon. But this late, he won't be able to ride the mules, or get a nice room.

I read a ton before I leave b/c on a trip to San Francisco and Big Sur I realized once we got home that we were only 8 miles from miles from one of prettiest locations on the coast. I dont' want to miss stuff like that again knowing I was so close...

Ultimately, you can be both a very extensive planner but not write an itinerary at all. In fact, the more you've planned and researched, the more you'll feel like you know what's available and when, so you won't need the schedule except for what must be scheduled.

Knowing where you're going to sleep doesn't = a detailed itinerary! And a detailed itinerary can be handed to a traveler who can't even find north, the Metro or his own shoes. Consequently he may come home with little more than the dog-eared itinerary and a vague idea of what happened.