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Can You Say "Gare"?
Can someone please give me a phonetic pronounciation of the following please:
Gare St. Lazare Gare Lyon I don't expect to sound like I'm French, but I just don't want my Texan to show too much. Thanks. Shrink |
gar like in car - i used to mistakenly say gare like in wear and people thought i was talking about some war ("guerre')
gar san lah-czar gar lee-own Ready to be corrected by a real Francophone! |
Where is the station (located)?:
Où est le gare SNCF? (assuming it is the French National Railways station you are looking for). |
Intrepid - quick question, not important: is "gare" really masculine? Thought it is la gare and une gare, but I'm often wrong.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's la Gare de Lyon (I know, I'm anal about some things).
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...and you might confuse someone if you pronounce "SNCF" as "ess-en-cee-eff"...
Say "ess-en-<b>say</b>-eff"... Best wishes, Rex |
...oh, and since you mentioned that you're Texan... remember to think of how it sounds to you when you hear British say "car" (the three "a" vowel sounds in "gare, and "la-zare" are pretty much all the same)...
as opposed to the more Reba-Mc-Intyre-esque... "kawr"... |
gare is feminine. That's why you have "gare routiere" for bus station. If it were masculine, those would all be "gare routier"
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Just don't do what I did several years back in Poitier. Dare I admit it? I pronounced "gare" so badly, that a police officer said to me in perfect English, "Madame. I am sorry to inform you that the war has been over for more than 50 years."
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Gare de Lyon would not exactly be "lee own", but can't think of Eng. word that has the correct pronunciation for "on" in French since it's a "nasalized 'n'" Guess it will have to do.
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Gee, if I had asked this question and received all these varying answers, I'd be tempted to chuck it all and simply say, "where the hell is the damned train station?"
The bottom line? Never ask how to pronounce something in French unless you're willing to take lots of different opinions. |
I really have to disagree about "gare" rhyming with "car" as most seem to be saying. Unless it's the very nasal pronunciation of New England, car doesn't sound like the French way to say gare. It's closer to the New England pronunciation, but still without a pronounced "ah" sound that occurs in car. The closest English word I can think of is "care" but pronounced a little more sharply. But again I think it all depends on what part of the U.S. you are from. The real fact is that French and English sounds are different, and that adapting to say them properly is difficult if you are not a native.
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But here in the UK, if you rhyme it with "care" you end up saying "guerre" and people think you're talking about the whole war thing again.
For a foreigner speaking a bit of French on travel to France, rhyming it with car will see you understood unless in Texas you say car a lot different to what we do. |
Wayne, wayne, wayne...
"gare" rhymes with bar, car, far, jar, par and tar (... that last word is what they put four of, on a car... in the South...) not bare, nor care, nor chair, nor dare, nor fare, nor fair, nor hare, nor hair, nor lair, nor mare, nor pair, nor tare, nor ware... |
Hmmm...I always thought it was a wider "a" than "car." Kind of "gaahr" with the "r" somewhat swallowed in that French r manner.
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Shrink, aren't you glad you asked?
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"Car is close enough to make your point - nitpickers only confuse the issue. You don't need to pronounce it like a Parisian but 'car' will be good enough.
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Do not forget to perfect rolling your Rs for precisely the exact length of time. In school, rolling the Rs was given as much importance as the tounge formation required for the correct uuuu.
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Gare rhymes with American English "car."
Saint (St.) rhymes with "ran." Don't pronounce the 't'. Lazare rhymes with American English "ma car." Lyon rhymes with the English name Leon. That's as close as one can get to an accurate description without delving into phonetics. Fortunately, it's more than sufficient. You don't have to say it like a native; you need only say it well enough to be understood, and the above will be good enough for that purpose. For what it's worth, gare is indeed feminine in French (la gare, not le gare). The 'r' is a uvular fricative in standard French, although pronouncing it the English way does no harm from a comprehension standpoint. The vowel is an open front unrounded vowel, very similar to the 'a' in English "father." If you know the International Phonetic Alphabet and you hanker for a precise pronunciation key, see http://www.mxsmanic.com/Gare.pdf |
That's exactly what I meant, Anthony. I don't say the a in car the same as the a in father, do you?
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These threads always teach me as much about regional variations in the pronunciation of English as they do about French. For instance, yes, I do say the vowel in father the same way I say the vowel in car. Having trouble picturing how it would be said differently. And I'm having trouble figuring out how to say Leon in such as way that it rhymes with Lyon.
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Hmmm. I seem to be under the mistaken impression that the "ar" sound in "gare" is pronounced as in "Gary".
((I)) |
Ira, not unless they pronounce Gary VERY differently down in Georgia than they do here in Massachusetts.
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Not like Gary...
nor like Barry, nor carry, nor Carrie, nor fairy, nor hairy, nor Larry, nor Mary, nor tarry, nor vary... |
I assume rex has a Ph.D. in linguistics with French as a major. Otherwise, he would refrain a bit from sounding like such an authority, particularly when he is dead wrong.
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How do you Yankees pronounce Gary, Nikki? :)
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According to my French dictionary, the ar sound in gare is the same as the ar sound in garcon, which I was taught was like the ar sound in Gary.
((I)) |
I agree with you Ira, like in garçon! ;-)
corinne |
So let's see, ira -- "gare" should be pronounced like "car" according to your earlier post. Now you say it should be like the "ar" in "Gary" which sure as heck would sound like the French "guerry" in most parts of the U.S.
And if you now say Gary is not pronounced like guerry, then you must think it sounds like "car" with a y on the end. I don't know anyone who pronounces Gary that way. When you get your story straight, ira, let us know. |
And we haven't even begun on how to pronounce Rouen...
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My dear Wayne,
I fear that you have been misinformed. It was not I who said it is pronounced like "car". >..you now say Gary is not pronounced like guerry,...< Absolutely. Go see "The Music Man" and listen to "Gary, Indiana". For further clarification, my French dictionary says the "a" is like in "hat". ((I)) |
I can't tell if we are talking about differences in the way "Gary" is pronunced... or the "a" in "gare".
Try this... dial 1-800-237-2747 for Air France, and "composez le neuf (9) pour ecouter en Francais". Right away you will the words "arrivees" (you will also hear them say "Air France") - - the first syllable in "arrivees" rhymes with car (pronounced the same in English or French). It does not sound the same as in "Air" - - which to me, rhymes with Gary, Barry, carry, etc. I agree that "gare" is identical to the first syllable in "garcon". Listen to an episode of <i><b>Garri</b></i>son Keillor's "<i><b>Prairie</b></i> Home Companion". This is how <i><b>Gary</b></i> sounds, as I hear it. |
Ira, I can't speak for all Yankees because I learned to speak in New York, but I pronounce Gary to rhyme with marry. Which opens up a whole other can of worms. Also rhymes with tarry.
Neither of which rhymes with gare, nor with garcon, at least not in New York or New England. |
>It does not sound the same as in "Air" - - which to me, rhymes with Gary, Barry, carry, etc.<
Barry rhymes with hairy? How does one pronounce Harry? I agree with the Gar in Garrison, but that doesn't rhyme with prairie. ((I)) |
We must not be listening to the same broadcasts...
Yes, Barry, hairy, Harry and Prairie all rhyme with (the way) <i><b>Garri</b></i>son (pronounces his own name) - - and in many soliloquies, he will also frequently say "Garry" (rhymes with prairie), as he was called by his elders, during his youth. |
The 'a' in car and father in English are pronounced identically, as an open back unrounded vowel. This is true for both RP British English and General American English.
This vowel is not identical to the 'a' in French gare, but it's the closest approximation and the difference is too slight to worry about (the French 'a' is fronted, that's all). Thus, the 'a' in French gare sounds like the 'a' in English father. The vowel you hear in tan or man in English doesn't exist in French; no words in French are pronounced using it. |
>..the 'a' in French gare sounds like the 'a' in English father. <
Well, let's just say we have learned our pronunciation from various people who speak different brands of French. ((I)) |
exactly - lots of people in France speak different accents of French - the Africans, Moslems, Belgians all different
Gare - like in i don't 'care'? |
What???
No wonder why I couldn't find the Gary Street Lasar and the Gary Lion! |
Hi All
Thanks for brightening my day and teaching me something! I probably learned more than I really wanted to know about how to pronounce Gare, but it was worth it -- you guys are hysterical. Thanks for the info and laughs. FWIW - I am quite used to being stared at by indigenous people - but I at least try to speak their language. I usually butcher it somewhat. But I'll bet I get to Gare St. Lazare and Gare Lyon! Thanks so much for your help and entertainment. shrink ps: It is also neat to hear from other PHC fans. I thought I was the only one. |
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