Bringing a Babysitter with us?
 

We live outside of London and have a 2 1/2 year old. We're beginning to plan our trips for the following year and trying to come up with some child-friendly options, all of our trips will probably be within Europe, I'm thinking South of France, Tuscany, Greece, etc. We're here for my husband's work so there is no family to leave our son with. We do have a babysitter that we absolutely adore. She's 18 really sweet and really mature and my son has a great time with her. We're thinking about asking her if she would like to go on some family vacations with us. We've never had an au pair or a nanny before so we're a little nervous. Does anyone have any experience doing this?
Here are our questions:
Aside from airfare/hotel/food how much more should we offer to pay her?
How much "her" time do we need to give her -- time where she isn't responsible for our son?
Obviously we should set up some rules/boundaries before we go -- how do we ask her to give us some "family time?"
We're just looking for someone to help us manage the airport gauntlet, watch him while he naps so we can get out during the day for a couple of hours of less child friendly activities and then maybe again at night for some finer dining.
Any advice?

This is a tricky one for me. We've always travelled with the little one w/o help. And I'm not criticizing at all, because I do know how you can be limited evenings and nap times and it would be so nice to have a helping hand at times like that. I'd say you probably really need to compensate her a little extra beyond airfare/hotel/food. Especially if she is expected to stay in the room for naps and bedtime and then be on her own other times. Maybe some extra spending money? If this is something you do I'd just lay it all out there for her -- what you expect, etc. Maybe even draw up a sort of loose itinerary just so you're totally clear. Good luck and happy travels!

Thanks Laustic -- it is tricky! Just for clarification -- I don't think we'll be asking her to leave us alone when she isn't watching him. We really enjoy her company too!
Normally we vacation on our own too. But, we just returned from a trip to Rome w/ my sister in law. Our last night she was tired so she offered to stay in while we went out to eat. It was the best of both worlds -- we got to play with our son all day but then got some alone time at night. I was hoping to recreate that!
Thanks for your comments.

My sister brought one with her form NZ a few years back. The deal was that she got paid for the time working, room and lodging, fights there and back but they got her an open return so after the 2 week holiday she stayed on for her own hols

This sounds like the kind of dream gig I would have loved as an 18 year old ;) I bet you all have a wonderful time! Make sure to report back and tell us about your travels!

I am not in that income bracket, but perhaps you made a mistake, but I noticed you don't seem to think you should pay her for working for you and her time. You should pay her just as much for her time as you would at home. I think you have her confused with being a relative, so she should do all this for free for you.

Hi BK,

You will have to pay her in addition to room and board and airfare.

Will she sleep in a room with the child or will you?

You will have to determine how many days/nights off she gets.

Since she is 18, she might still be considered a minor. If so, you will need her parent's permission, a letter authorizing you to take her out of the country singed by both parents, and a limited power of attorney in case of medical or other emergency.

You definitely need to speak to her parents.

((I))

"Since she is 18...you will need her parent's permission"

What century does ira live in?

The proposal is that an adult woman - old enough to be a company director, vote, get conscripted or buy a bottle of whisky - chooses to accompany acquaintances to other EU member states.

The thought she might need her father's assent to do that became old-fashioned about 1547. When the King was half her age.

In the US, 'legal age' can be confusing as it might differ from one state to another, and also drinking age and voting age are not always the same...So Ira's thought was not so far 'out there'.

You will essentially be employing this girl as an au-pair, that is somebody who is treated as a member of the family but who does a bit of babysitting or light housework in return for pocket money.
Have a look at the FAQs on this web-page http://tinyurl.com/2pokvn

They suggest
Au Pair

* Works up to 5 hours per day, 5 days per week
* Baby sits 2 evenings per week
* Receives 2 free days and 3 evenings off
* Weekly pay from £ 60

Oh no! I think I've been misunderstood. I definitely believe we should pay her! My question was, in addition to paying for her airfare, her food, and sleeping arrangement, how much MORE should we pay? We pay her an hourly rate here at home. Should I multiply that rate by 24 because she will be with us for 24 hours a day? Should I only factor in the time that she will be alone with the child? I would think she should be compensated for the time that she spends with us, helping get through the airport for instance, but should that be at the same rate as time she is alone? I guess I don't really want to bring a calculator on vacation and so was instead hoping to just have a flat offer.
If we were to stay in a hotel she would get her own room and the child would sleep with us. Preferably we would find an apt to rent as I believe that is easier with a child.
If we spend 4 nights do you think offering her 1 night to go out on her own is adequate?
I know she is an adult but I do feel responsible for her if she comes with us. We will talk with her parents before any actual plans are made.
Does anyone have experience doing any thing like this?
Thank you all for your comments!

I think coming up with a daily rate is reasonable (versus clocking the hours she spends with child on vacation). Perhaps do a tally of the time she'd be alone with the child for naps and bedtime and pay her an approximate hourly wage.

For example:

2 hours for nap + 3 hours at night + 2 hours for help during the day = 7 hours/day.

And then come up with an hourly wage that you think is fair and that's her daily wage.

She is technically an adult, but she's also someone's "child" and only recently became and adult so I don't see a problem with just talking with her parents.

Thanks for all the additional comments that were made while I posting. That's a great website! Those seem like really good guidelines for what to expect and what to pay. Although, I have to admit, that I thought it would be more expensive.
Flanner -- she is 18 -- and carries a UK passport -- will there be any legal problems? I have looked a little online but haven't found any thing stating one way or the other.

BKP--I think it was very clear that you intend to pay her. I was wondering why a couple of people thought otherwise...

I agree that she is being employed as an au pair. MissPrism offers good advice.

It sounds like you will not be taking advantage of this young woman. Lay all of the terms out in advance. If she accepts, then you know you've done what you need to do.

I think it was my post that might have led people think she wasn't planning on paying the babysitter. I'm sorry!

Anyway, I hope you have some wonderful travels with your family! You are so lucky :)

"If so, you will need her parent's permission, a letter authorizing you to take her out of the country singed by both parents"

Ira is almost right here. In the olden days, letters were sealed with wax and marked with a seal. Now we just write our names and then hold the paper near a candle so that the edge goes brown.

To be serious though, while I cannot see any problem with taking the baby sitter once you have negotiated an appropriate payment, won't you actually be employing someone in another country? Although this is legal because of E.U. law, presumably there might be tax considerations. There must be an allowance for such things in the regulations, but it would be good to check.

Chartley
I was assuming that since we would probably be "paying" less than 500 pounds (combination of flight, hotel, extra money, etc) we wouldn't have to worry about taxes, I will check though.

We have an au pair who has been on many trips with us. It really does help especially with the flights (I have three preschoolers) and getting a night away, etc. We do everything pretty much exactly as we do at home. She gets the same pay and is expected to work the same number of hours. She is invited to do everything that we do, although if she opts out for some quiet time, it is no big deal.

I would sit down with her and figure out roughly how many hours you think she will be working with you and come up with a daily rate. Talk about flexibility and expectations. Are you going somewhere where there is an attraction that she really wants to see? Can you factor that in? Or give her time to do it on her own? Let her know in advance what the sleeping arrangements will be and whether or not you will want a night or two for dinner with your husband with her back in the hotel or apartment with the kids.

The big thing, especially with vacations, is that there will be times she is on for only 15 minutes and then off again. For instance, boarding the plane and getting everyone settled she is needed. However, if your child sleeps during the flight she really isn't. So, it is that type of flexibility and agreeing to a daily rate that is important.

Have fun.
Taitai

My dear Flanner,

You manged to elide the operating phrase, "she might still be considered a minor", from my post.

Irrespective and quite regardless of what you might think, it is a proper legal consideration.

In the US she is not permitted to buy alcohol.

(This is an excellent example of why the voting age should be raised to 21. After all, if 18-20 yr-olds voted, the drinking age would be the same as the voting age.)

((I))

Hi BK,

>We pay her an hourly rate here at home. Should I multiply that rate by 24 because she will be with us for 24 hours a day?<

Definitely not.

You will be providing a large sum for airfare, etc.

The rate you pay, and the number of hours for which you pay, should be sufficient to provide pocket money for while she is travelling with you.

>...was instead hoping to just have a flat offer.

Of course.

> If we spend 4 nights do you think offering her 1 night to go out on her own is adequate? <

Definitely.

>Does anyone have experience doing any thing like this?

Yes.

((I))

I have several friends that routinely do this - with 2 young kids - so everyone gets a vacation.

Since the babysitter will be sitting she should be paid at her normal rate for the hours she works - as well as your paying her airfare, hotel room and normal meals. (You're not required to pay her bar bills.)

How you divide up the time between who takes care of the kids when depends on the type of trip and your desires - and must be negotiated/understood in advance. (It's not fair to expect her to take care of the kids from when they wake until bedtime - or it;s no vacation for her at all - just a lot of extra work. She should get part of each day - AM, afternoon or evening for herself every day.)

My friends that do this usually do a beach vacation - and the babysitter has her own room in their condo - or a separate room in the hotel (She should not have to bunk in with the kids).

Also - she should not be expected to mind the kids every night. Or - if you want to dine alone every night, then eat early a couple of nights - so she has the later part of a couple evenings for herself.

If you're doing a road trip - and will be in several different places - then you should try to give her at least a (non-paid) day for herself in major places - so she gets some enjoyment out of the trip.

(All of the above is based on the fact that - here at least - a reliable babysitter is worth her weight in gold - and taking her on the occasional trip is an extra perk to keep her working for you versus other parents.)

I'm naive, and I know someone will educate me.

I'll make up some numbers...

I pay $700 for her flight, I pay $150 a night for her room, I may pay a meal or more for her. So, assuming a 10 day trip, I've paid...say $2500 to have her on a trip with me. She needs to work...say 4/5 hours a day, otherwise can roam about on her own.

So...I need to pay here above and beyond the $2500 I've already spent to have her with me?

Maybe my math is wrong :)

Yes, you do, just as if your company sends you on a trip, they need to pay for your flights, accommodation, per diem expenses, and also pay your wages.

OK, I admit I'm no expert but this young woman is getting a paid vacation to Europe for goodness sakes!

It doesn't sound like you expect her to be slave labor so I can't imagine that you should have to pay her MORE than you normally would at home.

I also agree that you should have indepth discussions on your expectations as well as hers and allow for some flexibility.

Hi nyt,

>Since the babysitter will be sitting she should be paid at her normal rate for the hours she works - as well as your paying her airfare, hotel room and normal meals. <

Y'all folks up there in Noo Yawk is mighty genrus. :)

We'uns down here would figure a reasonable amount of pocket money in addition to the free trip to Europe was sufficient. :)

((I))

In this case, the family lives in Britain, so they can likely take a cheap flight (probably 50 pounds or less). The original poster said they plan to get an apartment, so the extra cost of lodging is likely to be small. It's not the same level of benefit that an American babysitter would get from a free trip to Europe.

Thanks WillTravel -- that was going to be my answer! I would never think of doing this if we were all flying from the states. It would be so expensive.
Nytraveler -- she IS worth her weight in gold!
I really appreciate all of the responses. It's nice to know that other people think it's a good idea. I also like the idea of her getting a vacation too! I want this to be an attractive offer to her. I want her to come, but only if she wants to come too. Whenever we come home she is always reading my travel guides so I'm sure she will enjoy herself as well.
Thanks to everyone.

A babysitter is like any other employee.

whe I go on a business trip the company pays for my cars to/fro the airport, the flight, the hotel,, the meals, any incidentals (calls home etc) - as well as my salary - and any time not used working (usually not much - but sometimes there is) - I get to do what I want.

How is taking a babysitter with you any different? They're an employee - not a family member doing you a favor. And they typically work more than 4 hours a day - since most parents opt to dine without the kids.

As I said - a good, reliable babysitter is worth her weight in gold. And this type of perq can keep her working for you versus other families that are trying to lure her away.

But- if people prefer not to pay to take a sitter with them - then they can take care of the kids themselves -less of a vacation for everyone.

I agree with Willtravel and NYTraveler. This isn't a paid vacation for the babysitter, she's working and should get paid for working. Maybe you only need her for a few hours a day but she is still in France/Tuscany/Greece and while that sounds great to me, she is there because she is working for you and might be giving up the chance to work at her other part time job. As the others said, I think you need to set a rate for the trip and agree on what she'll be doing. Of course you need to pay for her transportation and lodging too.

I haven't done this myself (thought about it though!) but have many friends who have done so. They brought their kids' regular full time babysitters with them on trips (mostly to the beach). They just paid the babysitter's regularly weekly rate plus a little bonus (maybe 10-20%) plus plane/hotel expenses.

The expectation was that the babysitter would watch their kids all day and on the occasional evening out. I would also give the babysitter a little extra money if you were going somewhere very expensive (e.g., a resort where a bottle of water cost $5).

I am British but live in the US. We have taken a baby sitter on several family trips in the past. This has always been extremely successful (kids now grown and have fond memories of our trips).
Our first 2 baby sitters travelled with us from the US (one on two trips). Our third lived in Wales and travelled to Greece with us a further 2 years.
We paid flights, accomodation and all expenses with the baby sitter sharing a room with the children.
In addition to this, we gave the sitter an allowance each day for extras. This would probably work out at about 15 euros per day, possibly a bit more.
We also paid for excursion trips so that the sitter could enjoy some time to explore.
It is important to have expectations of hours etc. laid out beforehand.
Our sitter generally got up with the children and looked after them for 2 or 3 hours in the morning. We then tended to do things together for a while. She took a few hours away from the children at some time during the day, depending on what she wanted to do.
We ate together most evenings as the sitter (first one in particular) didn't want to eat alone and we wanted her to enjoy herself too. My husband and I went for a couple of drinks after dinner while she put the children to bed. As the sitter was a minor at the time, and had spent much of the evening relaxing, she was happy with this arrangement.
On a few occasions, my husband and I went on day trips when she watched the children for a full day. Whenever we did this, we gave her the following day off and paid for her to go somewhere or do something special.
Our trips were several weeks long. We are still friends with our first sitter (who is now 27 and married).
At 18, your sitter is an adult. You don't need anyone's permission to take her (this applies to the US as well as the UK). Personally, I would check that she has proper travel insurance to cover any health costs that could arrive and that she takes the appropriate paperwork for EU healthcare (available from post office). We paid for our sitter's insurance as part of the expenses incurred.
Find what works for you, set out expectations in advance (both sides), allow a little extra for treats and enjoy a relaxing holiday.

Carolina -- it never even occurred to me that she could get up with my son while my husband and I got to sleep in! I don't think we have both slept in together in . . . let's see -- if our son is 2 1/2 -- 2 1/2 years! Wow. That does it for me! Decision made!
Seriously though, I really appreciate all the feedback and advice. I'm really looking forward to our vacations (which might actually be vacations!) this years. Thanks.

"Since she is 18, she might still be considered a minor. If so, you will need her parent's permission, a letter authorizing you to take her out of the country singed by both parents, and a limited power of attorney in case of medical or other emergency."

Another example of the babying of teens and young adults on here. How on earth would an 18 year old be considered a minor? 18 year olds are adults! I was an au pair in Spain at that age, having finished a year of college in another country. An 18 year old is not a child.
Is it because of the drinking age in the US that so many Americans seem to see 18-22 year olds as 'kids'? It's really bizarre.

>How on earth would an 18 year old be considered a minor? 18 year olds are adults! <

Well, from what I have seen of 18 year olds in my years in the professor business, as well as my own kids and their friends, I would say that that is a legal fiction. :)

Age of majority: US
AL 19, DE 19, NE 19, WY 19, WI 19.

Singapore 21, R of Korea 20, Monaco 21, Japan 20, Egypt 21,

Canada:
BC 19, NB 19, NF and L 19, NWT 19, NS 19, Nunavut 19, Yukon T 19

Argentina 21

Some jurisdictions have it as low as 14.

"Adulthood" is not universally granted at 18.

>Is it because of the drinking age in the US that so many Americans seem to see 18-22 year olds as 'kids'? It's really bizarre. <

Well, from what I have seen of gangs of drunken "young adults" from the UK and other enlightened countries, I think that it is bizarre to consider them grownups. :)

((I))

The young lady in question is from the UK, where 18 IS the age of majority. Therefore, why on earth would she need any type of letter from her parents?

So you're allowed to vote, drive, drink, buy cigarettes, work full time, but God forbid you should travel outside the UK without your parents?

Just because you have experience with immature 18 year olds doesn't mean they aren't adults. There are plenty of immature 25 year olds as well. This girl is obviously mature and responsible enough to look after a young child.

Hi M,

I admit to having overlooked the fact that the OP is in London, as is the baby sitter.

You are correct regarding her travel outside the UK.

>This girl is obviously mature and responsible enough to look after a young child.<

Oh, how long have you known her? :)

((I))

Hi BKP,

If, as others have suggested, your babysitter will be considered your employee, you might want to investigate what your legal responsibilities will be in the countries which you visit.

For example, if she is injured abroad will you have to repatriate her?

((I))

Hey, I know some people well above 40 years old that will never be grownups :) But in terms of legality, 18 years old is the legal adult age here in Spain.
Anyway, I think that a proof of adulthood is when you realise that the best help you can have in life is the help from your parents. Some people, sadly, notice it when it is too late....

"Oh, how long have you known her?"

If it wasn't already glaringly obvious, I meant that the OP obviously thinks her mature enough to look after her child, so I'm sure she's not the kind of girl who needs to be supervised herself. She's an adult, period. What point are you trying to make here? Because some of your students are immature, every other 18 year old in the world must be also?

Re. taxes:

Normally (and I have not the faintest idea if any how many exceptions exist) EU citizens get taxed at their legal residence. This would be the UK for your babysitter.
Only if a person works more than 1/2 year in another EU member state, they will have to pay taxes there.

Since this matter is not dealt with uniformly throughout the EU, it would be a good idea to ask someone with tax expertise in the UK.

Tax issues are no more of a problem than they are when you pay her in the UK. Unless you are going to employ her as such for several months or a year, then I wouldn't even consider the tax position.