Neo,

Yes, that is exactly how she did it. She seared the filet, then made the sauce and added the beef after she thickened the sauce. A very elegant way to serve beef bourguignon. I have to try this for my next Sunday dinner.

StCirq, your recipe says to "dice" the pieces of beef. That hardly qualifies as "big chunks," especially when you are dicing meat scraps.

"Well, with a bone in, perhaps it's like a jarret de porc, only with beef? Is there such a thing as a jarret de boeuf?"


Yes. Used for daubes, pot-au-feu and ......boeuf bourguignon. -:)

There is also jarret de veau, used for osso-buco.
Veal bones are great to thicken a sauce.

Kerouac : St Cirq's recipe mentions "gros dés", i.e. 2 x 2" or more. They don't qualify as "scraps" !
:-)

Who measured these cubes?

"Who measured these cubes?"

Probably the same people who check "finely" chopped onions. :-)

How about adding a little Paul Masson burgundy to a can of Dinty Moore a la Sandra Lee? I am sorry but this thread has become too funny.

please don't make me puke. Sarah Lee and dinty moore, I don't know which would make me sicker.

Yesterday I found myself skimming through a Julia Child cookbook at Borders. There was quite a section on BB. Anyway, she says to cut the meat into pieces or "chunks" (not her word) depending on the cut of meat used. She refers to the section in her book on "Cuts of Meat" which was not illuminating on which cut for which cut.

She also spends some time explaining why BB is NOT a stew. (Makes me cringe everytime I hear it called that.) It has to do with cooking in wine or something else.

Thirdly, a good rule for cooking in wine is to use something you would drink. In fact there is much to be said for drinking the same kind of wine with the meal that you use to cook the BB.

(For those who find this thread boring - I live in a parallel universe with a heavy emphasis on food)

robjame...I'm so in your parallel universe....

Apparently a square of dark chocolate is obligatory in a good bourgignon

Hi Robjame. I too use Julia Child's recipe, which I find great, although I use the whole bottle of wine, which doesn't leave any for the cook.

On the 'chunk vs piece' question, I have never seen it served in the Dordogne (Perigord) as one piece. But the chunks are larger than I was used to. I order 'boeuf pour le bourguignon from our butcher and they're pretty big chunks.

A comment about going out to restaurants, vs. just 'feeding yourself.' We too go out to enjoy something different, and many of our French friends do too. But some of our neighbours are much less adventurous. As expert foie gras/confit cookers themselves, they will go out with friends to a restaurant that serves - confit.

Of course it may also have to do with the other aim of eating together - conviviality, which can be done whether you are eating new things or old standards. In fact sometimes it's more fun not to have to think about the food too much, and just have a good time with friends.

Hi there Carlux.

I remember fondly a meal with both conviviality and wonderful, wonderful food at your place!

Many good restos do twists on old favourites and that can be some of the fun, too. I can remember my first "foie gras brulee"....

A trip to Le Select right after we got home resulted in my odering BB, certainly different from any cookbook rendition.

It is fun to seem them tweak a common cassoulet, etc.

Are you in S. Africa?

I don't know what Julia Child proposes. I have just put my own version in the pan for tonight's dinner. You really do need two bottles of wine. One is for the pot and the other is for your pallet as you slave away, cutting and chopping and brazing the stuff.

I think that BB is something like minestrone soup. You know, wherever you go in Italy you get something different, and none of it is any resemblence to Campbells!

BTW, Paul Harvey's radio stand-in had an interesting piece on Julia Child yesterday.

Reviewing this thread, I'm now amused how much fixation there is on the size of the cubes. All this started because I casually mentioned not to be "surprised" IF the dish in France happened to be served in big hunks and not bite sized pieces. Since then it's clear that a lot of people have been served the dish throughout France in one or more big hunks and some have only been served it in bite sized pieces. Recipes vary and chefs vary. Big deal. Should we also fixate on whether each preparation includes a particular spice (thyme or a bay leaf, for example) or what exact wine each chef uses in its preparation?

One thing is clear from this thread. It certainly is a popular and favorite dish of many -- and there is no SINGLE right way to prepare it. Happy eating.

"includes a particular spice (thyme or a bay leaf, for example"

no, no, no Neo - bouquet garni! LOL.

Yea. robjame, that's exactly what I was referring to. Bouquet Garni is a "requirement" of boeuf bourgignon, but there is no set rules for what is in the bouquet garni. Although bay leaves and thyme are two of the main usual ones, some may leave one or the other out, along with various other renditions of the bouquet garni.

I've put a small amount of curry powder in it before. Then again, I almost never respect recipes.

Wonderful thread. wine. chocolate. bit of curry. Keep it coming. and merci. J.

This is why I'm addicted to this website. Sometimes you get terrific advice. Sometimes you get interesting ideas to ponder. Sometimes you get a LOL response. Sometimes you get all 3 in one thread. Keep it up Fodorites, you make this wacky world easier to swallow. Oh, by the way, I used a Pinot Noir to both drink and cook in my Ina Garten recipe last night. My husband and friends were very enthusiastic about the results. Isn't that what this is all about?

I like this recipe as it includes brandy:

1/4 pound thick-sliced bacon (3 slices), cut into 1-inch-wide pieces
3 pounds boneless beef chuck, cut into 2-inch chunks
Salt and freshly ground black pepper
1/3 cup all-purpose flour
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
4 1/2 tablespoons unsalted butter
1/2 cup brandy
1 (4-inch) piece celery rib
4 fresh parsley stems (without leaves)
4 fresh thyme sprigs
2 Turkish bay leaves
2 whole cloves
2 onions, finely chopped
3 large garlic cloves, finely chopped
2 carrots, peeled if desired and cut into 1/4-inch-thick slices
1 tablespoon tomato paste
1 (750-milliliter) bottle dry red wine, preferably Burgundy or Côtes du Rhône

travel - I think if you change onions to pearl onions and add mushrooms, it is a pretty classic recipe.
The brandy gets burned off.

One thing that has not been stressed IMO is that "classic BB" is not an easy, slap together, last minute dinner. It takes planning, some special ingredients and much labor - about an hour of prep for my wife and me.

Having said that, the difference to "beef stew" is ridiculous. A great BB is worth doing (IMO).

robjame, so true, which is just one reason I thought the idea expressed "it is actually the sort of thing that most residents would never order in a restaurant. We other people make it and eat it at home -- it is more common to order a difficult dish in a restaurant" was such a preposterous idea. It would be my guess that many French housewives would just as soon go out for it as to spend half the day preparing it and heating up the apartment or house cooking it. I could be wrong, but I'd think many French people really don't spend hours cooking every day at home.

Oh, I know it is pretty classic and similar but I personally love the flavour brandy imparts, although most does get burned off. You still get the flavour.

I think it is interesting that this thread has garnered so much attention - love it when people are passionate about such topics! :)

Neo -- you're missing the essential detail here. If you order it in a restaurant, you don't have the wonderful leftovers for future meals. And it is definitely one of those dishes that gets even better the second time around.

No, I'm not missing that detail. I agree it gets even better, but I don't think that "detail" has anything to do with the issue I was talking about.

Guess what I'm cooking tonight? :D

It's been on my mind since I first saw this thread.

Dinty Moore beef stew with Paul Masson burgundy?

This thread inspired me to make Boef Bourgignon for dinner tonight.

I use my above mentioned recipe. The beef has been braising for three hours now and I have used 3 1/2 bottles of wine. And the sauce is already incredibly tasty...

I was thinking about the recipe of Craig Claiborne that someone provided here. This recipe uses not less than 19 ingredients.

I took just beef, wine, salt, pepper and a little garlic and it is wonderful. Nothing to divert the original taste.

I mean this kindly...
The recipe sounds lovely and I think it is one that I will try myself one day.

But you do know that it is not Boeuf Bourguignon...

finally made the BB and it was outstanding. it is not a dish for RR 30 minute meals. it was an all day making dish. but worth it. i took the simple route (oh,so i thought) i ended up using carrybean's recipe, and i highly recommend that you all try it. i did add frozen onion pearls but other than that i stuck to it 100%, whipped up mashed potatoes and a loaf of french bread and went at it for 3 days.

so i'd like to thank carrybean and all the other's for the good,bad and ugly on this subject.

Theresa in Day-twa ;)

PS 30 days till Europe.

The beef piece size need be chosen by...teeth health, budget, availability of meat choice and taste preferences. Consider that a 5cm x 5cm piece has a volume of 25cm cubed and a 2.5cm x 2.5cm piece only 11cm cubed, cooking times will vary by hours! Domestic kitchens operate in minutes rather than the hours of a commercial establishment. Beef Bourguignonne is easy to make but requires a large amount of time. Domestic kitchens can speed up the cooking process by using 'tender' cuts of meat. A commercial kitchen uses cooking time to effect its resuts. Question? Can it be BB if BURGUNDY is not used? Can it be WHITE BURGUNDY?

You can use white wine, in which case it is not BB but daube provençale! (add a few olives and tomatoes)

You do not have to use red Burgundy. Any good red wine will do the trick and it will still be BB.

To reduce cooking time by 1/3rd, you can use a pressure cooker.

Years ago when in Beaune we had BB in a small restaurant. We have tried many times with minimal success to duplicate the dark, almost black, crusty exterior with the very moist interior of the medium-sized chunks of beef. Traveller1959's method seems as though it could produce these results. This BB was not "stewed", it was different in texture than any beef stew we've tasted. The sauce was also very dark. Though BB may be made by the French in their own kitchens and not often ordered when out dining, our experience in the little restaurant in Beaune will always be a fond culinary memory.

Glad you liked it, Mamaw. It does take a while to make but isn't difficult & has a lot of leeway to vary it. The leftovers are even better.