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Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 09:09 AM

Balancing kids' school w/family vacations (or, the impossible juggling act)
 
Hi, I'm wondering how others here have solved the riddle of going to Europe at an ideal time with school-age kids (middle school to high school).

Last year we went to England and France in late September/early October. The timing was almost ideal from a vacation perspective -- though the weather was a bit coolish, we encountered almost zero lines anywhere (the only exceptions were the Eiffel Tower, London Dungeon and London Eye, all to be expected, but even they were minor). London sidewalks were not crowded, trains were half-empty, we never had to stand on a bus or wait more than a few minutes, even in Victoria Station.

Weeks before we left, we had filled out all the appropriate forms at school, notified teachers and administrators, got advance assignments, etc. A couple teachers were thrilled and gave the girls tips of things to hunt for that related to their studies (we had asked for this and planned parts of our vacation around it) -- one teacher even group-Skyped with the girls every couple days for a few minutes and opened it to a class question-and-answer session, and our WiFi connection luckily was strong enough to give the class a small tour, via iPod, of an English apartment and the surrounding neighborhood.

But several teachers seemed indignant that we would ever consider taking them out of school for any reason. A couple teachers expected ALL the assignments turned in on their first day back, even though the girls had just arrived back in the U.S. at suppertime the night before (other teachers flatfly refused to give advance assignments because they said it was impossible to know what material they would be teaching over the next week). One teacher informed my daughter that she would almost certainly fail the course, even if she *did* turn in all homework and it was perfect. Another verbally shredded my daughter in front of all her classmates.

I refrained from telling the teachers that the girls had learned far more in Europe than they would have learned in an entire month at all their U.S. classrooms combined :-), and we just swallowed the tirades and got the girls to turn in all assignments as soon as possible. In the end, none of their grades was affected. They are honors students, straight As or nearly so, and have zero history of attendance, behavior or academic problems.

But now we're trying to plan our next trip and running into the same school-or-Europe dilemma. The girls have extracurriculars that run through June and into early July, so that's out. We can't go in early July because the Spanish Riding School is closed. We could go in early to mid-August, but isn't that the worst time of year to go to Europe? We could try going over spring break or at the beginning of their school year, but either of these options would require them missing a few days of school, and they're both scared to death of facing their teachers' wrath again.

So, for those of you who have faced this challenge, how did you solve it? What has your experience been with schools and teachers? What would happen if, say, you homeschooled the kids for the semester you were planning to go to Europe, then re-enrolled them as "new" students the next semester?

It's crushing, to me, that teachers cannot see the overwhelming value of kids going abroad -- and I say that as the spouse of a teacher, not just a parent. What better way to *really* learn literature, history, geography and the arts, to say nothing of putting their foreign language skills to use and gaining a world view of humanity? I think there's even a lot of math in travel; just figuring out, rapidfire, how much a ticket costs, converting euros to pounds (and back), calculating km vs. miles vs. time and when you need to reach a destination and so on. It's the most practical application of algebra I can think of.

Looking for tips here to -- try and -- satisfy everyone involved ... any guidance appreciated.

Many thanks.

MichelleY Sep 30th, 2013 09:20 AM

High School is tough to take time from. Once our daughter was in HS, we worked vacations around school. . Looking back, I wish we had taken more time away when she was younger in grade school. Sorry I can't give any other advice.

socaltraveler Sep 30th, 2013 09:34 AM

What happens when you take your children out of school is that they then become "private students" requiring special plans, special attention and special grading. While you as a parent know that your children are that special, it becomes a burden to already overworked teachers. I taught, my daughters are teachers, I am not trying to say this to be mean. Of course the travel experience is a wonderful education, no one questions that. High school is a hard time to miss school for that travel experience. And I do have to question why they cannot miss those summer 'extracurricular' activities, but you can burden the classroom teacher and teaching flow with their absence. You ask a lot.

Christina Sep 30th, 2013 09:46 AM

I think it is arrogant to think the school should revolve around your vacations because you want them to be at a convenient time for you, not for your kids. Kids should plan vacations around their time off just like adults have to plan around their jobs and the time off they can get. I don't blame them for thinking you have a lot of nerve, very spoiled attitude IMO, you expect them to coddle your children and make up special assignments and deadlines for them. I'm sorry, but this just seems so first-world spoiled to talk about how you expect them to Skpe you in England, take them on tours around your vacation apt., etc. Do you think no one else ever goes to Europe or something?

YOu are teaching your kids that rules don't matter, that they are better and more special than anyone, and that the world should revolve around you. That attitude will do them wonders in college and later when working.

colduphere Sep 30th, 2013 09:47 AM

We have travelled with three children. Many trips have been the first three weeks of August. Personally I find the "it's hot and crowded" line way overplayed here. The only place it was too hot was Japan and we would still go back there in a second. Egypt, Greece, Spain, Turkey etc etc were all in August and they were fine.

We have also taken them out of school several times in March and January. It has never been a problem with teachers (here in Canada). I wonder a little bit whether even some European destinations are now seen as regular every day travel destinations, as so many people now make the trips with their kids. So what may seem to you as an amazing learning experience appears to some teachers as just another vacation.

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 09:53 AM

Thanks, schoolteacher. I do appreciate your perspective.

The extracurricular is band -- an odd "extracurricular," really, because he lowers their end-of-term letter grade by *one full grade* if they miss more than two practices or performances, even during the summer, and they have practice at least 10 to 12 times during the summer, plus a week of band camp, plus four to five weekend parades to march in. He did give the girls some leeway last time around but made it clear that that would not happen again, and he would not hesitate to fail them.

I know that upper-level math and science can be tricky, but I find it hard to believe that much else could be. One daughter skipped an entire grade in elementary school and immediately started getting straight As across the board in her new grade, even having "missed" an entire year of instruction in all subjects.

I respect teachers' hard and often thankless work, but don't most teachers have their lesson plans mapped out at least a week in advance?

Or, as a teacher, do you feel there are "better" and "worse" times of year for a student to miss? Would three or four days at the start of the school year be worse than, say, three or four days before or after spring break?

I really am trying to satisfy everyone ... not trying to be difficult. Ideally, I'd like to approach their teachers months in advance to see how we could best work out a compromise. But there is virtually *no* compromise with the band instructor, which makes the whole thing really difficult. It becomes a choice of which teacher will fail them and which teacher will merely "ding" their grades a bit.

Thanks.

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 10:01 AM

Thanks for your perspective, Christina. A word of clarification -- I never said I "expected" anyone to Skype either of the girls. It was the teacher who suggested that. Not I. Not my daughter.

And frankly, when forced to choose between a small-town school with circa-1950s thinking, and exploring the world for genuine learning, I hope my daughters will always choose to embrace a world view rather than narrow-mindedness. The way the current school calendar is set up, there is virtually no time year-round where they would not be punished for taking time off.

Our daughters have a tremendous work ethic, thanks. I respect that you disagree and will just leave it at that.

kwren Sep 30th, 2013 10:10 AM

We've been going on our European vacations around the kids' high school and extracurricular schedules for years, but when younger, we took them out of school. When my one son was in 5th grade, he and I went to Frence for a couple of weeks...along with a stack of assignments and tests I had to give (!) He really worked hard to get it all done, and he did. The problem was that the teacher gave him so much extra that he was about 2 weeks ahead when he returned. Actually, it was good he could relax to help overcome the jetlag.

When in high school my kids no longer wanted to miss school because it was too hard to catch up. We also had the requirement of marching band to deal with and would/could never ever miss that, so I can understand that. (I've had kids in marching band for 13 consecutive years now)

It sounds like you haven't gone on vacation in August. It's not bad then - actually we quite enjoy it. (Well, maybe not the year that it was over 100 degrees every day - we just had to have extra gelato!). Why not give it a try one time. You might find it suits you the best of all!

Alternatively, leave the kids at home - we just tried that the last 2 weeks and it was wonderful! ;)

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 10:24 AM

Thanks, kwren and colduphere. You're right, we hadn't tried a family vacation in August (though I did spend one August in Germany, "BC" or before children, and you're right -- I don't remember thinking it was too hot; in some of the photos I'm wearing a light jacket). Everything I'd seen here had indicated that August in Europe was to be avoided at all costs ... but if it's a possibility, we could certainly consider that.

And thanks to everyone else who shared insight as well. The girls will still get slammed by their band instructor, but that may be an issue I take up directly with him, rather than inconveniencing a bunch of teachers to placate one.

I have every intention of returning to Europe on my own :-), but I think it's critical for our daughters, having grown up in a "monochrome, monoculture" small town, to be exposed to as many different aspects of humanity as possible, while we still have time with them.

jamikins Sep 30th, 2013 10:25 AM

Most of Europe goes on vacation in August (in the UK we all head to the sun of France, Italy, Spain, Greece etc) and we spent two weeks in Greece last year in August.

Is it hot - yes.

Is it crowded - yes, everyone else is on vacation too.

Is it that bad - no, depending on how well you plan and what you set your expectations are. We are planning another trip next year in August.

The trick is to accept that it will be hot and plan sight seeing in the morning and late afternoon. Accept that you will stand in line. Accept that places will be busy, including restaurants. You can plan around this by being patient, making reservations wherever you can, and also going places that are not as touristy.

colduphere Sep 30th, 2013 10:30 AM

More specifically, if you do go in August, plan ahead as much as you can to 1) purchase line-skipping passes, 2) find hotels with pools or near a beach, and 3) plan outdoor activities for the morning, with indoor activities left to the afternoon.

Even something as simple as taking a ferry (depending on where you are ) rather than a taxi can do wonders to stay cool.

socaltraveler Sep 30th, 2013 10:40 AM

As a teacher, my expectation for the best time of year for a family to take a vacation is during the summer and other scheduled school breaks. Period. I might excuse a once in a lifetime opportunity for a family to miss a week, but as a regularly scheduled thing, nope, no slack. And the teachers of your daughters' other subjects should command the same respect as the band teacher. It does not matter how far in advance a lesson plan is made; you cannot make up lectures and classroom discussion.

Try that vacation in August perhaps. Pretty much all families with school age children have to do that, and so do your daughters' teachers. Again, you ask too much.

kwren Sep 30th, 2013 10:44 AM

That band schedule is pretty rough - we have weekly practices through the summer too, but it's understood that some might be missed for vacation.

But don't ever consider missing any of band camp...

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 10:48 AM

I certainly hope all the teachers *do not* place the same demands as the band instructor, because his "curriculum" is YEAR-ROUND, including all through the summer. Under his schedule, there is not a single two-week break for the kids at all -- including summer, winter and spring breaks, snow days, etc. It reminds me why so many families do choose homeschooling over conventional schooling methods.

Many thanks to everyone who offered some workarounds for August getaways, though. That does seem to be the path of least resistance, which could be the best compromise ... except for the band instructor, of course, who will likely fail both girls for daring to take a family vacation at any time during the year. *His* band-related trips, of course, are all "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunities, of course -- every single one of them, no matter how often they occur. But that's a topic for another forum. :-)

colduphere Sep 30th, 2013 10:57 AM

Our daughter played ultra competitive soccer. She lived through the "can't miss any practices, games, tournaments etc etc for any reason" threats from the coach. In 2008 we went to the Beijing Olympics and she missed three weeks of soccer. We did not think they would discipline a player for going to the Olympics. And of course they didn't.

Tell the band instructor you are going to Europe to study band behaviour. :)

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 11:30 AM

Kudos, colduphere, for that thought process!

One of the only reasons I *think* he did not fail our daughter last year is that we asked, ahead of time, what musical sights he would seek out if he were taking such a trip. He gave us a list which we worked through (plus a couple more), and as luck would have it we also struck up a conversation on a train with a high schooler who happened to play the same instrument as our daughter. So our daughters were able to return to the U.S. with a detailed comparison of music education in the U.K. vs. music education in the U.S.

The marching band regimen is preposterous, in my opinion. An example -- a "once-in-a-lifetime" trip is scheduled for Disneyworld (since every band event is, of course, once-in-a-lifetime). Students are expected to attend and families are expected to give up their spring break for this. Everyone is expected to participate in fundraisers, even though it does not lower the cost in any way (from what we've seen, the band has a consistent $18,000 to $20,000 balance). Yet if a student gets a part-time job to help pay for his or her band trip, no work/band conflict is excused. This was the latest "you will be failed" threat. Uh ... failing a student because she has a work ethic to go out and get a job, in today's teen job market, to pay for a trip that the instructor is mandating? Really?

Yep, really.

That one required intervention from both me and my husband, and a grudging backing-down -- with the ending threat that if our daughter ever had to work on another band practice or band performance day, she would be failed, banned from the trip, and the several hundred dollars paid in so far would be forfeited.

This is the mentality we deal with year-round. We already can't take family vacations over spring break, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, or three weeks before or after Thanksgiving. The same rule applies even next August, too, so there really is no winning. He will fail both our daughters for taking a family vacation over the summer break. Absolutely.

Which I think does more to kill their work ethic than anything else I can think of. But again ... a discussion for another time.

thursdaysd Sep 30th, 2013 11:37 AM

Maybe you need to organise a parental strike against the band leader. Really, why put up with this? Can't your kids find another activity?

txgirlinbda Sep 30th, 2013 11:57 AM

Here in the UK, they've just ruled that head teachers (principals) are no longer allowed to authorize absences for family vacations. No excuses. Which makes it tough for our expat family to get back home, except during the summer when flights are at their most expensive, and when Texas is at it's hottest. DD is in kindergarten, for Pete's sake. DH and I have already discussed booking our tickets, keeping quiet, and telling school we have a funeral in the States to attend. Homeschooling looks more and more attractive all the time.

kwren Sep 30th, 2013 12:05 PM

Our band goes on a trip every other year...and it's been to Disney most years for the past 12 years. And oh yeah - they don't even play their instruments there anymore - just go and have a good time. My daughter is not going this year, but at least there won't be any pressure.

Our entire band starts up through the summer and ends early November. Why does yours go all year long? Are you talking about indoor percussion and color guard shows which do go year-long here? Here the brass and winds end November - do they go all year too in your school?

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 12:17 PM

Txgirlinbda, I'm right there with you.

Kwren, marching band season ends at the end of October, but the band still performs at several holiday parades and competitions right through December and into January. Add in band concerts and there are very few pockets of time available ... a couple weeks in February, maybe. But the good players are "command performanced" into playing at the school musical as well, so even less time off for them. And with the "once-in-a-lifetime" Disneyworld trip, there will be lengthy practices all through February and March.

I still do not understand why band is a graded subject, yet it is also an extracurricular. I think if it's graded, the work is limited to school days and school hours. If it's an extracurricular, it's outside school hours and should not be graded (thus no destruction of a good student's GPA).

It's really quite harsh.

kwren Sep 30th, 2013 12:56 PM

OK - I get it. Marching band and regular band. We have that too, but marching band isn't graded as it is outside of school time, and band is graded as it is a class during the day, as you were saying. Band has concerts through the year, which the kids can't miss, but they can miss class if necessary. They have to make up the sectionals that they miss. Our musical is optional, but the best musicians often sing too and most also try out for the musical in some capacity. My kids were always in the pit which had fewer practices than those up on stage. Yup - can't miss those practices either.

In any case, these are very good groups of kids!

It does sound way too harsh that your kids can't miss any time in the summer. Do you have any sort of music booster club where the parents can discuss it? I don't think we'd put up with that here!

Sassafrass Sep 30th, 2013 04:50 PM

When I was teaching, July and August were the only times I could even think of going to Europe, which I did several times - even Rome in August and Spain in July. Sure it was hot, but no worse than a lot of the US at the same time, and lots of fun. So, go in the summer and have a good time, less hassle for the kids, teachers and you.

mama_mia Sep 30th, 2013 05:22 PM

Doesn't your school district have a policy for trips like these? Our school district requires parents to submit an Educational Form at least two weeks in advance, outlining the trip (10 day limit), which then needs to be approved by the principal. Teachers can then request written reports or homework be done during the absence.

I would think having a policy in place would give you some back up for your request. I do agree, though, that in high school, it becomes trickier to miss any days.

As others have noted, you can still create an enjoyable vacation in August with planning. And don't discount the pleasures of hitting some of the lesser known sites if you think the major tourist sites will be too crowded.

kwren Sep 30th, 2013 05:25 PM

I've done both the major and minor sites in August. Plan what you want to do and go for it! You won't be sorry and you've gotten some good tips above as to how to avoid some of the crowds. I'm sorry it's so stressful to find a time!

MonicaRichards Sep 30th, 2013 05:37 PM

I think it's a lot to ask a teacher to design a specific program to keep up kids who are missing school for vacation. We suck it up and take our kids during the summer even though it's crowded/hot/expensive/whatever.

StCirq Sep 30th, 2013 06:09 PM

I think it's arrogant and self-serving too. I took my kids to Europe every single summer (and sometimes Spring Break) from the time they were born until they were in college, and it never once occurred to me to ask for some special dispensation because it just suited ME. Sorry, but that sort of attitude just grates on me.

Why should any parent expect special treatment to bend the rules or get special dispensation for assignments? What if every or lots of parents did that? I don't care what kind of "work ethic" your kids have. Plenty of other kids have the same, and their parents aren't taking them out of school because it suits THEM. ME, ME, ME, ME...is what this shrieks. I totally applaud your kids' band teacher - do you know what's involved in training a band, and how important it is for each and every member to be there every practice unless someone is direly ill? I love the "I'll take it up with him..." line. Do...and I hope he sticks to his guns.

Sorry, but I am SO sick of parents who think they are above everything. You say you could go at early to mid-August, but that's just not really convenient for you...because it's HOT? Are you kidding me? Suck up the HOT and go then and avoid all this drama. It's not about YOU, it's about rules.

This isn't a "riddle" or a "juggling act." It's a power play, and one that will teach your kids unconscionable lessons in the years that come.

What on God's earth could be the problem with going in August? Those of us who don't mess with teachers have routinely done that and put up with the little bit of sweat it entailed. Too bad if you're HOT. As for "the girls would have learned far more in Europe than they would have in an entire month at their school," take them out of their schools and send them to European schools. Sheesh! American self-serving gall at its best.

msteacher Sep 30th, 2013 06:24 PM

"We can't go in early July because the Spanish Riding School is closed."

Seriously?

AtlTravelr Sep 30th, 2013 06:29 PM

Kandace-sorry, I don't understand. In your first piost you say you CAN go in early August. Later you say this is impossible due to band. If the question is " go in August or not"? Then I say go. We also dealt with a school that penalized the students for taking time off during the school year. We went in late august and no, it was not horrible. It was hotter than the rest of the year but not unbearable in any way. And if you are looking for life experiences, our kids met kids from a London family while on vacation in August and we have remained friends for 10+ years, meeting them in various countries over the years. Take a vacation when the Europeans do. It's not so bad.

CatchK Sep 30th, 2013 06:34 PM

As a middle school teacher, I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to keep track of most of the things that I am normally responsible for during a school day. I work 3 additional jobs and am in grad school (which is a state requirement if i am to continue teaching!) I am not saying this to complain about my career - I chose it for a reason and am honestly very passionate about what I do. It is important to me that I do my job well.

Because of this things, several things bother me about your original posts, although it seems like your thinking has evolved a bit throughout this thread.

1. I truly, honestly, don't have time to do most of the things that you said you had some teachers do, no matter how much I love your kids. They are great teachers for that and you should be grateful for them!

2. Teaching in a small school that is considered low-income (which is a huge decrease in median income in the past 10 years), I have to be aware of the fact that MOST of my kids and their families could never afford trips to Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. I cannot treat your child any different than the others simply because you can afford to take fancy trips. Just looking at it from a different point of view.

3. If this is SUCH an issue, can't they quit band?? Join a community band or get them in private lessons if playing an instrument is that important.

4. I just went to Italy (Venice, Brescia/Garda, Positano, Rome) in August. As a teacher I don't get to choose when I get my vacation time so this was my only option!

I found that pre-planning all major attractions and sights really made the difference. The absolute longest line that I waited in was about 10 minutes. I still had free time and flexibility, but I made sure that my must-sees were pre-planned. I found that the Italians thought it was extremely hot, but for me it was the same as at home.

Sorry for being long-winded but I really wanted to second some of those points!

AtlTravelr Sep 30th, 2013 06:39 PM

CatchK-this is where I wish the board had a "like" button. For all that you said-like.

StCirq Sep 30th, 2013 06:41 PM

CatchK - same here, too. My dad was a teacher and headmaster. No one appreciates what they do. Very sad. Unthinking.

BumbleB6 Sep 30th, 2013 06:41 PM

Well, I was going to suggest Christmas break - most US school districts get two weeks, I'm assuming yours does too - but that's out too because of band obligations?

I think the answer is - have your daughter choose between Band or travel. Sounds like Band is the problem.
Or, go alone with your husband and have someone stay with the kids.

I agree it's beneficial to take our children abroad, but I also think they need to learn they cannot have it all, or do everything. (It's a good lesson for us, as parents, too.) There will always be other obligations and choices to be made over another.
Again, in this case, it really sounds like you and your daughter need to decide which is more important in her life right now - staying in Band or traveling to Europe with you. And if she chooses Band, she needs to be at the required events, and Europe will still be there later in her life.

Btw, I went to Italy in August and it wasn't bad. In fact, it was wonderful. We were so awed by Florence and Tuscany, we didn't even think about the heat. It is, however, more expensive to fly then, so there's that.
I hope you can work something out.

As for my own daughter in high school - she's solved this for us, herself, by refusing to take time off from school. I actually would like her to but she won't! I really don't like traveling in summer - we live in an area where summers are actually very nice, with many things to do - but we've traveled to Europe twice in recent years because we wanted to take our daughter. However, I've decided we're only going abroad during her spring break from now on, as long as she's with us anyway. The weather is horrible here, while it's more pleasant in Europe and elsewhere, and the flights are cheaper. It'll be a shorter trip than in summer, but at least I can stay home in summer.

Kandace_York Sep 30th, 2013 07:01 PM

Yikes. Calm down, everyone.

Spanish Riding School -- if you're not an equestrian, you don't understand how life-changing this is. I've waited at least 30 years to visit this. It will be one of the memories I will carry to my grave, and this is likely the only chance I will ever have to experience it ... sorry, but again, if you're not a horseperson you just won't get that. I can't even think of an equivalent. It encompasses 400 years of war, art, royalty, geography and history. It is not just a riding school and they are not just horses.

August -- the main reason I was so hesitant is because of THIS FORUM, wherein virtually everyone says August is the worst time to go to Europe, don't go, it's broiling hot, it's miserable, the lines are impossible, and on and on and on. The girls have *fewer* band commitments in August, but they do still have band commitments and they will be slammed for missing them (despite band being an "extra-curricular"). This is the biggest trap: we never have even three weeks, year-round, where they do not have a band commitment. We already get zero holidays, zero intact school breaks, and only an *occasional* Saturday that does not require band involvement. I know it sounds like whining, but if you haven't lived it, it's tough to get. One daughter will be leaving band, but the other has a genuine passion for music. Here, if you love music, you must be in marching band. There are no other options.

Forms -- yes, the school does have a policy and a form on family vacations, and they are allowed, and we did complete the forms in advance, and they were approved by administration. However, many of the teachers still rebelled.

Fancy trips -- I don't consider these "fancy trips." We travel on the cheap. We hike. We backpack. We stay in youth hostels. We study the girls' textbooks and build our itinerary around them as much as possible. I consider these trips (which are not "a regular thing" by any means) to be intensely educational and the best way for me to create humble, hard-working, empathetic, world-view people who will be able to -- I hope -- fix some of the huge mess that has been created on this planet by previous generations. Our school district cannot afford trips (not even local field trips), and the trips we take are a huge boon to what they're learning in school. Ask them about Stonehenge. Ask them about Shakespeare. Ask them about geography. Instead of locking them in a "box" and drilling endless dates, names and monotone history into them, they've BEEN to these places. They identify with them. It all *means* something to them and they are far more engaged learners as a result ... something that I and their father (who is a teacher, by the way!) believe is the ultimate goal of education.

Summary -- fine, I'll try August! It has the least number of conflicts, and it's the month I would have chosen initially, if not for the torrent of comments here about NOT going in August.

BumbleB6 Sep 30th, 2013 07:02 PM

And CatchK, my sister is a high school math teacher, and I third the "like". Many don't realize how much time per day is spent on planning, grading - outside of school hours. Not to mention the students and parents who regularly call her at her home. She welcomes it, and seems to love her job and her students, but I've seen firsthand how much time she puts into her job, outside of school hours. Without any extra pay or thanks.

colduphere Sep 30th, 2013 07:07 PM

It's hotter here in this forum than it will be in Europe. Have a good time.

longhorn55 Sep 30th, 2013 07:07 PM

I'm clicking my "Like" button for a lot of these posts, especially CatchK, StCirq and Socaltraveler. You have expressed my opinion in a way much better than I could have.

UNCalum Sep 30th, 2013 07:17 PM

I would like to add that you are doing your children no favor by teaching them that rules, in this case school attendance requirements, should not apply if a better opportunity comes along. As a college professor, I see the unfortunate consequences of this attitude too often. Students have a sense of entitlement to the professor's time to re-teach classes missed because of a beach trip or to submit a paper late because of a minor case of the sniffles. Time away is time away, and what is missed should not be allowed to be made up without a doctor's note. A committment to school is more important than any trip to Europe, and I say that as one who loves going there.

Educators have too many students and too much grading to make exceptions unless in extraordinary situations. You should support those who expect rules to be followed and who insist that all students be treated the same. To do otherwise is to create that most unattractive sense of entitlement in your children.

If band is interfering with summer family time, then your children should quit and vacation then. Sometimes, choices must be made .

thursdaysd Sep 30th, 2013 07:23 PM

"Here, if you love music, you must be in marching band. There are no other options."

<i>Marching</i> band? For real??? NO music teachers? I'm sorry, but someone who is <i>serious</i> about music is surely looking for something other than marching around at half time at a ball game.

"I've waited at least 30 years to visit this. It will be one of the memories I will carry to my grave, and this is likely the only chance I will ever have to experience it"

If you've waited 30 years how come you can't wait until the kids graduate? Seems this is more about your gratification than anything to do with the kids.

KTtravel Sep 30th, 2013 07:33 PM

Another one here that believes travel should be in the summer, particularly when the kids are high school age. Class discussions and progressive lessons become much more important. My husband is also a teacher and has a hard enough time creating lessons, make up tests, etc. for kids who are ill or have family crisis issues. He teaches summer school, as do many teachers to help pay the bills, so we also can only travel in August.

In our state, unless the kids are in private school, daily attendance rates fund the school budget. If kids are absent for vacations, their school loses money. I don't know if this is the same with your school district.

If your kids have made the commitment to band, then that is the choice they have made. If band interferes too much with travel and family life, then perhaps they would prefer not to be in band. If most of the band parents find the commitment too restricting, perhaps you can go to the band teacher and see if a compromise (two pre-scheduled weeks off or so) could be arranged.

I certainly think kids can learn a great deal by traveling in Europe, and other places, and those trips can create wonderful family memories. I hope you are able to find a good solution.

StCirq Sep 30th, 2013 07:37 PM

<<if you're not an equestrian, you don't understand how life-changing this is.>>

No, I'm sure we wouldn't. I like horses, and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who own them and ride them and love them too, but "life-changing" for "an equestrian" kind of says it all, doesn't it? LIFE effing CHANGING? What planet do you live on? Are you Ann Romney? And what an admission that this trip is ALL about YOU! You never mentioned that your kids were "equestrians."
And let's face it, putting yourself in that category does have implications for why you think you're so much more special than the average parent. Go see the horses yourself if you must.. Let your kids stay home and do what they should be doing.


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