American Leave Allowance
 

One thing I notice from lots of posts here is that most people from the USA have only 2-3 weeks to spend in Europe per trip. How many weeks annual leave do you get? In Australia we get 4 weeks per year and I usually save two year's worth and take 2 months o/s. Is this not possible for North Americans? You all seem to have to rush your trips.

Most companies begin with 2 weeks which increases as your level within the company increases or your length of time with the company. Usually you cannot, however, let your leave accrue from one year to the next. I have heard that some hi-tech companies allow longer leaves (sabaticals). It is really too bad. You are just getting in the groove of traveling and it is time to head home! Oh to win the lottery and never work again.

Most Americans only get 2 weeks vacation per year which for some can not be rolled over to the next year. Going up the ladder of corporate success... some employees get 3 weeks after 3-5 years of employment and senior managers and executives get 4 weeks. Many companies though will only allow you to take the whole 4 weeks with a lot of advance notice. This is because there is no one to do the person's job while they are away. They might be able to get an unpaid leave of absence but with no guarantee that their particular job will still be available when they get back. In order to take off for 2 months most Americans would have to be retired, a student or quit their job after saving their money which is exactly what I am planning on doing. This is probably why Americans have such high stress. They never know what it's like to really get away from it all.

In Sweden we have 5 week by LAW, and you can make a deal with your management for more vaccation against overtime or less pay etc. But 5 week's is minimum by LAW. And that is not unique for europe Most western european countries have minimum 5 week's and many countries 6 weeks <BR> <BR>WASA <BR>

You have started a topic which hits a very raw nerve with me. I wish I was so fortunate as to be able to spend 2-3 weeks in Europe. My employers gives me only 10 days vacation, and they think they are being generous! My old boss was slightly better; I got 12 days. Even if I had the leave to take a longer vacation, they would be very hesitant to allow me to be out of the office for such a period of time. My boss is proud of the fact that he didn't take a day off the first two years he worked for the association. I work in Washington, DC where you are seen as lazy if you enjoy too much vacation time. The problem with Americans is that we tend to live to work, not work to live. <BR>

I don't think the American employers understand that if they gave us more vacation time we would be more productive. It's really a shame but I don't think things will ever change. Everything is work, work, work. And if you try to take both weeks and some personal days all at the same time, you get dirty looks and worry about the security of your job. I also think it's ridiculous to have only 2 personal days. In 365 days, aren't you allowed to have more than 2 emergencies? Last year I was going to be in a wedding in FL. (I live in NJ). My boss wouldn't let me take a personal day that Monday. What was the matter with her? Actually, I am a teacher, so I get plenty of time in the summer. However, it is a myth that teachers get paid over the summer. So consequently, money is very tight. Also, what is the use of two months when your husband only gets two weeks and you can't go away for longer anyway? Also, while I am not definitely not complaining about two months in the summer, I will never have the option of going to Europe in the off season which is really a shame. And if I ever go to Australia, it will be winter. This is my gripe for the day. How can we change this aspect of American culture?

I agree that it seems most US companies start <BR>employees with only 2 weeks, but I don't agree that <BR>most don't let you roll this time over into the <BR>next year. Any place I've worked, and all of my <BR>friends, have had this option -- usu. companies <BR>allow you to accrue vacation time up to a certain <BR>limit (e.g., 10 weeks). Now, I don't know actual <BR>labor statistics, but that's my experience for <BR>white collar, professional positions, anyway. If <BR>you couldn't roll it over, that would essentially <BR>mean no one could ever take a ski trip in Jan or <BR>Feb because they'd have no time accrued yet, and <BR>that no one could ever take a 2-week vacation <BR>because you wouldn't accrue the 2 weeks until 12/31 <BR>upon which date you'd lose it. I also don't <BR>understand the comment someone made saying they only got 10 days, not 2 weeks--10 days IS two weeks of working days, anybody who gets 2 weeks of vacation only gets 10 days off work, not 14. I took a month off to go study in France a few years ago and did it by not taking any vacation time for two years so I accumulated 4 weeks. Teachers who get 2-3 months off in the summer get paid a certain salary for their job--spend it all in 9 months or spend it all in 12 or whatever you want, it's still an annual salary. High school teachers around here make about $50K a year after 20 yrs seniority for teaching 9 months --although I'm not interested in teaching HS, I'd be perfectly happy to earn $50K if I got a 3 month vacation, not to mention all the other days they get off during the year. <BR>

I am the person who said I get 10 days of vacation (and no personal days). I said that because that is what it is considered in my place of employment. At no time is it referred to as two weeks. Additionally, employers do not necessarity conform with your definitions. My previous employer gave me 12 days of vacation; I have a friend who receives 13 days. Secondly, many people take vacations without rolling over their available days because they take their days in advance of receiving them. Thus, if they take a five day vacation in January, or whenever they begin accruing leave, they then owe the time and will not accrue it until it is made up. That is how I was able to go to Copenhagen last year. Regarding your comments about teachers' salaries in US, it is quite inappropriate to speculate about someone's salary in an open forum, particularly if you do not know them or their current situation. <BR>

Vacation time in the US is very non-standard as to amount and policy of when/how it can be used. I work for a university and accrue 1.83 days per month (22 days/year) which I can accumulate up to 44 days. If I don't use it by then, I loose it (I've never come close though). My husband, on the other hand, works in a blue coller field (though I think he's considered management). He just started at a new plant and had to begin at the bottom vacation wise. He gets five days vacation and five personal days to use as sick leave or anything else (like taking a ten day vacation next month). On the other hand, when he works very long hours or works weekends or even holidays, he doesn't necessarily get compensatory time off (or even much thanks!). That's the situation in management of a small place...you're at the mercy of the owner's whim. Vacation policy in Europe really looks terrific from here. I hope Europeans who wonder why Americans rush through their vacations will stop to consider that few of us have much of a choice. That's why we look forward to retirement...so we can take long trips!

My husband is a partner in a big law firm. He can take as much time off as he wants, however, he won't make any money and will risk losing clients. Our average trips to Europe are 10 days and centered around business meetings, so those of you who have 2-3 weeks, I certainly envy you!! Bottom line is to make the most of what you have--the grass is always greener! <BR>

To Christina: I don't know any public school teacher who gets THREE months off for the summer. Also, if you look at more closely, most of the days off during the year are legal holidays such as Thanksgiving and Memorial Day. While it may take 20 years to earn 50K, all my friends in the "business" world earn that in less than ten years. However, I don't know if any amount of money would make me switch careers and move into the dog eat dog world of business. This is not the place to get started on how teachers are underappreciated and underpaid, but they are!

Thanks for all the interesting feedback. Perhaps you don't want to know that we also get 17.5% leave loading - that is, extra money to go on leave! It's weird but true.

<BR>I've long been envious of the civilized, humane vacation policies in Europe and Australia. And those countries don't seem to be suffering economically because of that practice. WASA and Joanna: can you explain who does the work while you're away? That, as well as stingy policies and lack of money, seems to be the biggest problem for us Americans. Until recently I've had to work 50-60 hour weeks on either side in order to be able to get away at all.

To dimi: I don't think this attitude is appropriate. Joanna was not trying to make you angry or feel that you slave away with no thanks to your employer. If you don't like it here, it's a FREE country, you can leave!

To Christina - Do you have to pick every word someone says apart? My daughter is a teacher and does NOT make 50K a year, but she gives the kids 50K's worth of knowledge. My husband owns his own business and gives his employees 10 vacation days a year and if you don't use it you loose it. Owning his own corporation we were fortunate to take 16 days and go to Europe this year (without pay). When he got back it took him 42 days to catch up. <BR>

Joanna - is your company hiring? If they are, post an application form, we're coming over! :) <BR>

Yes, I really have opened up a can of worms. I just wondered why most people on this website only seemed to have 2/3 weeks to spend on holidays, most of you being North Americans. I didn't mean to skite about having more holidays - sorry if it sounded like that. Someone asked who did the work while I was gone. In Australia we call in what we call a "temp" from a recruitment agency. It's very common practice here. Some people even make a career from temping so that they work when they want to and the agency they are registered with usually arranges their superannuation, workers compensation, etc.

Joanna-We have quite a large temping industry here in the states. Many people make this a career here, too. In fact, many careers which were formerly permanent have become "temp" or "consulting" careers so employers can save money by not having to provide benefits, etc. I have temped in the past myself but have found that the companies often just call in the temp to mostly answer the phone and be a body at the desk. I have often sat for hours and hours at someone's desk with little or nothing to do. So in these cases I guess the temp is not really getting any of the vacationing employee's work done.

I work for an American company and get 21 days of vacation per year.<BR><BR>Travel tips:<BR>http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

posting tip:<BR>http://refrain_from_adding_to posts_dating_from _1998.edu<BR><BR>or<BR><BR>www.StartingANnewTthrea dIsNotACrime.com<BR>

I run my own business, and I've always followed the European model of vacation time because I believe it's necessary to live a balanced life. So I take about 3 months' &quot;vacation&quot; a year. I spend about two months a year at our house in the Dordogne, and about a month elsewhere, traveling in the USA usually, to visit relatives or just to travel. I have this insane view that traveling is as productive as schooling or as working, so our family spends a great deal of time on the road. All in all, I spend about 3 months out of the year abroad - and in future will spend even more as I head toward retirement.

<BR><BR>I worked for the U.S. government. We got 13 days of vacation time a year for the first fifteen years and 26 days a year after that. That is WAY out of the norm on the generous side for vacation time. Even so, with the 26 days or five weeks after fifteen years, you would be ostracized by everybody, including peers, if you even suggested the radical idea of taking all five weeks at once. The reasoning seemed to be that if you thought you could be absent for five weeks at a time, you must not be doing any work. And of course, you wouldn't really WANT to be gone for five weeks because nobody was going to come in and do your work when you were gone. it would take you months and months to ever get caught up again.

Allan, please let sleeping dogs lie.

We decided to take our first trip to Europe this summer (married 25 years). So my husband told his employer (months in advance) that he was taking the month of August off. We had an incredible 3 weeks in Europe and upon our return, he received a call from his office telling him that there was no need for him to return to work, as there just wasn't the workload to give him! The culture in Canada is similar to the States and I say, it SUCKS!

Yes, the europeans get extensive vacation times, but these are SOCIALIST countries with incredibly high taxes. So, the reality is that by giving 50% of their income to the govt in taxes,they get a few extra days of leave, BFD!.I would rather have my 19 paid days off and only give 15% to the IRS, then work for nothing, other than 4 weeks of vacation. The europeans pride themselves on this issue but they also hate paying so much in taxes. You can't have it both ways. I live in Germany, and this is a topic that like religion and politics is best left unspoken. BTW not everybody gets paid vacaton. The girl who waits on me every morning at my village bakery is forced to take two weeks unpaid vacation, whether she wants to or not, regardless of finances. She thinks that Americans have it good, since our taxes are much more reasonable. And most employers will not force you to take a vacation, you are more than welcome to work yourself to death. Just my observation and opinion based on living here for the last 5 years.

I work in the UK and get 35 days holiday a year, and, yes, I currently pay 23% tax. On the other hand, I get healthcare free, a decent education system, some protection should I become unemployed, and the knowledge that those less fortunate than me will be taken care of.<BR><BR>By the way, xxx, I don't think that you could describe the UK as a socialist country - or, for that matter, Italy or Spain - and I don't think that Jacques Chirac would like it much either. Although you live in Germany, you don't seem to understand the fundamental difference between Europe and the US. Nobody likes paying high taxes; but explain to Europeans (particularly in the UK) that tax cuts mean poorer public services, education services and health services, and most will choose to keep taxes at the same level. Incidentally, the Liberal Democrats in the UK fought the last two General Elections with a pledge to RAISE taxes - and increased their representation in Parliament both times.

When it comes to societal attitudes toward vacation time, I really wish we could improve that aspect of life in the U.S. I feel very fortunate to have the situation I have with respect to that, but it's all too rare.

I get four weeks of vacation per year, quite generous by U.S. standards. But it doesn't roll over to the next year, and I've never yet managed to take it all. For several years I was unable to take any at all (due to severe understaffing, now partially resolved), and that is just my hard luck. I don't get paid for unused leave either. <BR><BR>I am hoping (yet again) that this year I will be able to take two weeks at a stretch so as to take the family to Europe. Doing so will be seen in a very dim light by my employer and colleagues, but is unlikely to result in my termination. I will return to a mountain of work, but then that's nothing new.<BR><BR>I do manage to travel to Europe fairly frequently, but I'm working when I do it (and believe me, it's still even if you're in Europe).

Hi Joanna,<BR><BR> I live in the US. One of the reasons I only take 2-3 week trips is that I can't afford to go for much longer times. <BR><BR> As far as comparing vacation time and taxes, one has to calculate the *total* leave time and the *total* tax.<BR><BR> In the US total paid holiday time is usually about 10 - 15 days vacation + 12 - 14 days legal holidays + 0 - 2 personal leave = 22 - 31 days off (4 weeks).<BR><BR> US taxes are Federal 10-28%, State and local 2 - 10%, FICA 6 - 9%, sales 0 - 9%, for a range of 18 - 56%. Some of us have real estate and personal property taxes on top of that (about 1%)<BR><BR> I estimate that Europeans pay about 40% income tax + 17% VAT = 57%. Am I correct.<BR><BR> So what do Americans get in place of time off?<BR><BR> I have my own ideas, but prefer to let others give their opinions.<BR><BR>

You may get &quot;free&quot; healthcare in the UK, but it's not very good healthcare. Unless you consider having to wait 18 months for a bypass to be good care.

I live in the states and get four weeks off a year and 11 holidays. Not to mention and day or two off here and there for &quot;sick&quot; time. I don't feel like I'm &quot;deprived&quot; of time off at all.

Of course you don't feel screwed 'x' since you have about twice as much time off as a lot of people.<BR><BR>Try working in the stock market/brokerage field where you get 6, count'em 6, holidays a year. Yes, even the day after Thanksgiving is a market day. Two weeks vacation for 7 years when you get your 3rd week. 4th week at 20 years.

Ok, I get:<BR><BR>3 weeks vacation<BR>6 Personal Days<BR>8 Sick Days<BR>9 Holidays<BR>Every other Friday off (Work 9 hour days to make up the difference)<BR><BR>So I get a total of 52 days off per year!

For a truly helpful post there Joe why don't you include where &quot;here&quot; is?

Just for interest, the German bakery worker MUST get 20 days paid leave a year in terms of EU legislation.

I get 4 weeks, BUT I have to bill so many hours per year (2,420--and that's billing time, not time at the office), that it's unlikely I'd take all 4 weeks. <BR><BR>The kicker? I may be an American, but I work for a British firm with offices all over Europe. Why do I get the feeling they don't treat their European employees exactly the same?

So, so informative and timely, now what do we do with all this gibberish.

I couldn't care less if the economy is twice as big - I want better balance &amp; greater quality of life.

I work for a large mining co. in N. Canada - we start at 2 weeks/yr. like everyone else (labour law is 2 weeks, rising to 3 after 5 years).<BR>Our acccumulates much better - after 25 years I get 25 days' vacation. The rules say you can't accrue more than 3 weeks. On top of that they used to have 1 week a year accruable &quot;special leave&quot; due to remoteness, but after finding nobody was taking it they converted it to an extra 5 days' annual vacation! After 25 years (cabin fever!) I get 31 days a year. This is way out of the norm from USA and Canada, where 4 weeks/yr after 10 years is considered generous.<BR>A Canadian comedian described us once as &quot;unarmed Americans with health care.&quot; Marginal tax rates are higher - about 50% (on a decent income, you will pay 30 to 35% to the governments). As a note to the health care discussions - Canada is good if you need emergency care (usually). For anything discretionary, it risks being postponed. (4 months for a gall bladder ultrasound!) <BR>When counting tax rates here or Europe vs. the USA, don't forget to count health care costs. They are included in our taxes, whereas many Americans (or their employers) cough up an extra couple of hundred a month on top of taxes.

I think that you will find that the amount of vacation also varies by industry. Many businesses are also combining both vacation time and sick time into one package, called combined leave or paid time off. For example, if you once received 10 days of vacation and 10 days of sick leave per year, you will now have 20 days per year to do with as you like. It is the mindset of many that they are granted 10 sick days per year, so they might as well use them for whatever reasons they like. <BR><BR>One of the primarly reasons that businesses do not allow you to rollover a lot of vacation each year, is that in each subsequent year the business will be paying for unused accrued vacation at a higher rate. For example, for simplicity's sake if you earn $500 per week in the current year, and you get a 5% salary increase, and you rollover your vacation to the following year, the business is then paying you $525 for vacation that was budgeted at $500, obviously making it more expensive for the business if it is carried over.<BR><BR>I get 25 days of combined leave per year, plus 11 holidays. I can only carry any unused vacation over to the end of the fiscal year (June 30th), although the vacation allowance begins on January 1, effectively allowing me 18 months to use my vacation time. However, only 10 days may be carried over into the next fiscal year. The only time more days can be carried over is due to heavy workloads. <BR><BR>Also, some businesses don't pay overtime for certain staff positions. I have a position like that, however, I am comped extra time for the extra hours I do work, but those extra hours are on a use it or lose it basis. When I accrue a lot of extra hours, I usually turn 3 day weekends into 4 day weekends in order to get those hours off the books.