Air France downgrade
 

We were downgraded on an Air France flight from Paris to Houston yeasterday. One of our party was left in premium economy and the other 2 were moved to economy as they overbooked the plane. We were not told of the seats until we were boarding the plane. We were also not given a choice of being split up. The very lovely flight attendants found us 3 seats together in economy and are writing a report to state that we did not use the premium economy seat. don't know if it will help but they were lovely to try. has this happend to anyone else?

We have been bumped up 2 times on Air France but never down so I have not idea what to do. I am going to call the numbers that houston gave me yesterday. AIr France told us to get the refund in Houston and houston apologized for the error in their information but I apparently have to follow another process. Anyway, it was the first really negative expereince with Air France and we have used them at least one a year for the past 7 years. I will fly them again but this is just a pain.

But, Italy, Sicily and Paris were fabulous!! Even the blizzard we landed in Tuesday night in Paris didn't dampen our spirits. We were 2 hours late coming in from Taormina Sicily, paradise by the way, and we took the RER in with all of the luggage. Crazy we were but we were in Paris, our favorite city.

Did you PAY for premium economy or were you using some sort of FF points for these seats?

I paid

WOW!!!

I gather there was no way you had pre-assigned seats prior to check-in.

I had them but apparently they moved someone from business to our seats. They kept telling us that we were the 157th people to check in. We did not have internet in my friends apartment so i could not do online checkin as i did for the outgoing flight. The flight attendants were shocked also and thanked us for how nice we were considering. I want to have some compensation for all 3 seats as we had no idea.

I do have travel insurance and paid with my American Express. Maybe they can help. At this point, I want my money back. But, as I said, I would fly with them again as I know that there are far worse stories than mine on any given airline out there. Hopefully, they will just compensate me and we will feel better!

were you on a code-share Delta booking? - we have had bad experiences when we ticket with Delta on an Air France flight. What I really hate is that often a Delta flight on Delta costs hundreds $$$ more than a Delta flight code-shared on Air France. But when we do that, seat assignements seem to disappear and we end up in middle seat purgatory.

No I bought them from the Air France webiste as I always do. Not sure what happened.

Could it have something to do with online check in?

I do not see how online check-in would interfere with seats that we already assigned to you. If they are assigned then they are assigned (at least that is my understanding) and I am sure you checked in well within the required timeframe.

When a flight attendant thanks you for "how nice we were considering..." well, something is rotten somewhere I suspect.

There is always a get out clause regarding assigned airlines seats. Always. Somewhere in the T&C you will read that they reserve the right to move you to another seat/class if they need to.
Good luck with getting anything back from them - somehow I think they will quote chapter and verse to you and say you accepted the T&C at the time of booking.

I think you may be able to reclaim the difference in price between premimum economy and economy, but only for two of you , the third person was given the seat class that was paid for and the airline is likely not going to refund the difference on a seat/ticket that YOU changed by choice. I hope you kept your boarding passes etc.

I am totally sympathetic to your issue and sorry that happened to you and your party.
I had a little different experience on my last Air France flight. I was flying non-stop LAX-CDG and booked the flight probably 9 to 10 months in advance and immediately selected a nice aisle bulkhead seat. (I really suffer when flying with someones face in my lap, so I wanted to try bulkhead) I checked in at home on line the night before flying and had my boarding pass. I apparently was oblivious to what was going on and just sat in the waiting area as name after name was called to the gate desk, but never me. Honestly, the announcements seemed to be in french more than english. I typically wait til the end of the boarding process to board as I did this time. I walked right to the bulkhead where I expected my seat to be and found it was occupied. I looked at the row# and it was not the row I had selected. I followed the row numbers further back to discover my seat was in the middle of a 3 seat row. I basically freaked as I knew I could not tolerate that for 11+ hours. The plane was 100% full. I immediately found an FA and told her of the problem. It turns out what happened was that the earlier departure to CDG had a mechanical and used the plane supposedly for us leaving a substitute different model plane for us, hence all the activity at the gate desk. Since my seat# was a valid seat on the new configuration plane, they did nothing to try to change my seat assignment. I was not informed when I checked in that this was going on or I would have gone to the gate desk immediately. The FA understood my dilemma and said to wait a moment and she would see what she could do. It turned out a very nice gentleman who had a middle bulkhead seat in the very back section had family re-assigned in my assigned row and agreed to switch seats. Although not a aisle, it all turned out OK in the end. My overall observation of the whole thing was pretty much chaos

We did have confirmed seats from when I bought the tickets. If we get money back for all 3 fabulous but if for only 2 at least it will pay for most of my souvenirs. I bought some Sicilian tile for oour bathroom redo. The first lady that we spoke to when we checked in the luggage handwrote our original seats on the boarding pass. She also told us the plane was overfull and that we may be moved up not down. We thought nothing of it as we have been moved up before. At the gate they took those from us and gave us new boarding passes.

I would contact the airline. They have a record of your original purchase and of your seat reassignment. And they do owe you a refund or even more.

I am at work and am about to start calling. Wish me luck!! Will let you all know. Thanks for your advice.

ttt - to see how it turns out.

good luck, lrock.

so pleased you had a good trip though - any chance of a trip report?

Apparently after speaking with customer relations I must fill out a form for a claim online and there is no one I can speak to.

You will be compensated officially. Since refunds for downgrades was one of the things I did for 35 years in the airline industry, I can confirm that it happens very often. It is nearly always a case of "high contribution passengers" making demands at the last minute and getting their way, bumping down all of the little non-VIPs.

If everyone who made bookings on flights actually turned up for them, there would be no need for overbooking and this situation would not happen. Same with prebooking specific seats and finding out that they have been changed. It does happen very often and is not nice but it is not an issue of the airline's making, it is an issue of the people that book flights and no show.

I am sorry but I disagree with Odin. Airlines know about overbooking and no-shows. Overbooking is one thing; taking a BOOKED SEAT away from someone who DID show up for it is entirely something else.

I can confirm that it happens very often. It is nearly always a case of "high contribution passengers" making demands at the last minute and getting their way, bumping down all of the little non-VIPs.>>

how do get to be a "high contribution passenger" kerouac?

sounds like it's a good thing to be!

I believe that means someone who is paying more for their ticket (high contribution).

I've never had that happen to me, thank goodness, but I can't afford those seats. However, I did have that happen to me once on a domestic United flight. It was a small plane and United has this insidious practice of marking certain seats premium economy even on very small planes, most of them. So if you want to book a ticket, the regular price seats can be sold out as there aren't that many, so you are forced to pay for the premium. That happened to me once on a flight from Chicago to Aspen (the website claims the premium seats have more leg room, they didn't look different to me). However, when boarding, the boarding ticket they gave me turned out to be for a regular seat. I didn't know it, of course, it wasn't obvious which rows were premium and which not, but I checked later and found out (it wasn't my original seat). It was about a $35 seat different or something. It took me about 2 months to get United to refund that fee I was forced to pay for something I didn't get.

Kerouac,

Since I cannot speak to someone, I was told to fill out the form online and it may take 7 to 21 days to receive some correspondence back from Air France. Do I expect a form letter? I have read that they have to give a certain percent back from the downgrade. I have never had this happen so I do not know waht to expect. Do you receive any compensation or just the straight up cash refund. Thank you so much for your help.

Glad I found this post. I have booked Premier Voyager seats on AirFrance for an Atlanta to Paris flight in May. I'll be frequently checking my seat status right up until I'm sitting in my booked seat!

Under Article 10 of Regulation 261/2004 the two involuntarily downgraded passengers are due 75% compensation http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...g_2004_261.pdf

Dukey - you appear to be laboring under the erroneous assumption that when you get a seat assignment it is guaranteed that you will occupy that seat. This is a common error. Seat assignments are never guaranteed. Period.
Signed,
Learned the hard way.

The rules for compensation are automatic, so you can expect an automatic replay. There are monetary amounts for each degree of fare code disrespected.

automatic <b>reply</b>

Thank you so much for your reply Kerouac. I have received no e-mail from Air France and was told today to fill out the claim form online.If it is indeed 75% for the 2 seats, that is a fair amount. The flight attendants told me it may take a weeks or so for their report to get in the system but to try for the 3rd seat as you never know we may get that also as they documented that they let us all move together. I don't have the 1st set of boarding passes as they took them from the gate so if they ask for any more documentation shouldn't they have it all in their system?

Low Country Islander, I would definitely check in online 24 hours early as they told us that since we checked in 157th that is why we got moved. I still don't understand it but it is what it is. I just want to get some money back and hopefully go back to Paris soon. We could have had far worse happen to us than have our seats moved.

Every airline will always just try to give you credit on the airline for a future trip. You only get actual money if you tell them "this experience was so horrible that I am never going to take your airline again." Of course, then you will wait much longer.

I was told to fill out the claim form so do I just write that I want the percentage of money back? I can find no one to actually talk to at Air France. I plan to quote the Eu rule so they know I know that I am entitled to.

And will they contact me or should I be ther one contacting them? Sorry to ask so many questions. I have never been in this boat before. That is probably a bad comparison as we are taking a cruise next year for a friend's daughter's wedding. On Carnival hope that goes OK-HAHA

So sorry....it is irritating and sometimes can happen if there is an aircraft change. Certainly your status with the airline in general and the amount you paid fr the ticket all come into play. I do agree that you want to check in as early as possible for trans-atlantic(we were once upgraded because we were first to check in). I woukd call them back...and no they may not have all the info in their system. Expect to do the work to get any money back.

I was bumped once with a confirmed, assigned seat because they needed to save on fuel for a flight in bad weather....me and another girl and both of us weighed about 110 lbs!!! Lotsa of heavier people made it on that flight. If you have any frequent flier status I woukd also work for additnal points as well as the refund.

Trying to talk to a live human being at Air France is like...well, I can't even think of a good comparison. It's pretty much impossible. When our luggage was delayed for several days we worked with a representative of our travel-insurance company, who apparently had a number to call in such cases. Otherwise it's on-line forms and wait for a response. Be sure to print and date copies of any and all correspondence.

I understand that one may not get the SEAT assignment , that its not guaranteed, BUT since you pay more for a different CLASS and get demoted to a cheaper class I think one should get compensation.

I have American Express travel insurance and I paid with my American Eaxpress card. i will call them but in the meantime I will submit my claim form online. I am going to try to get monetary compensation for all 3 seats if I can. If I can't talk to anyone how do I ask for anything else besides just the money, which is the most important thing for me to get back as my sister-in- law will not be going again anyway?

If you think AF was bad, you should try dealing with United. They literally do not publish a phone number for customer service, it is a big secret, you can only communicate by email and it took months for them to respond to me. I would have been really steamed if it were more money. I did finally get my refund, however. United only has a customer service number for reservations, nothing else.

I would certainly expect you'd get a refund on the price difference, that is just factual, but if you are asking for some kind of damages for other reasons, such as disappointment or your seat wasn't as comfortable and you really wanted it, I'd forget it. You are never going to get that. But don't leave it up to them, they can give you FF miles, you have to ask for those in such cases. If you are not part of their FF program or the Skymiles or whatever, then that obviously is not an option. But airlines will sometimes give out FF miles to disgrunted customers, I always ask for miles and have gotten them usually in some cases (long flight delays for no reasons, etc.) but they won't give you money just for being disappointed, I suspect, how would they even value that.

United did not try to give me credit for a future trip in my case, I don't think that would be proper, this is an actual monetary difference in the seat you got versus what you paid for, I wouldn't think the airline could not refund the actual price difference legally.

I think by EU rules they should have to give me monetary compensation. I am a member of their flying blue program and I spoke to someone from flying blue just a few minutes ago and they told me to call the 1800 reservations number and speak to someone. We will see.