Something we do all the time when dining out with friends and everybody wants to use their credit card is to just ask the waiter to put X amount on one card and X amount on the other. We have never had any trouble doing this in any restaurant in the US, and did it last winter in Mexico, too, sometimes with more than 2 credit cards if the group is larger. I can't see this being a problem in Italy, even if 2 checks is not possible. This way nobody has to come up with change or cash, and you can just do a quick calculation at the table.

We frequently travel with another couple and here's how we do it...If we are away for say 8 days, we will pay for everything for 4 days and they will pay for everything for 4 days. When we get home and the credit card bills come in, we see who spent more and one of us send out a check. Doing it this way we usually come out very close.

Lord! Im getting stressed out just thinking about being in that situation at least twice a day. Im sorry and I hope that wont put a damper on your holiday.

What I would do is (in a very positive voice) give her a choice by saying "So, _______ should split the bill 3 ways evenly every time we go out? or would you prefer to bring a small notebook and pencil and just jot down the amounts you are ordering at the beginning of the meal?" Then split the tax, cover charge etc. X3.

Get it over with early, in the beginning of the meal so that everyone is happy and can enjoy their meal without squirming in their chairs for the duration worrying about how to deal with it.

Good Luck and I hope you have a lovely time.

I just thought of something else (just out of devilment) maybe you should first ask her to use her credit card to pay for everything and you and your mom can figure out how much you owe her! THEN after you see her dumbfounded face, offer to "Oh lets just split 3 ways"

Just leave her at home! She is not going to be fun to have on the trip if she is that cheap.

We do as one poster suggested: Everyone throw in $200 in the pot and one person pay all the food bills. trust me, it works out. If she spends a few extra bucks it will not be worth it to calculate.

Bottom line: If you worry so much about this now you are taking the wrong person with you. Good luck!

SusanP-I was agreeing with you about being easy to figure out since tax and tip were included, I guess I just didn't make myself too clear. That's what happens when I am typing my message quickly.

I think this whole thing is becoming more difficult than it really is. Just have frugal friend pay her share at each meal (including tax and tip). It's easy with an itemized bill. Discuss this arrangement with her before you leave and the issue is solved.

djkbooks-I have to agree with aggiegirl that just because someone is frugal doesn't mean they are dishonest or cheap. I called my friend frugal but she is just more careful of her money when traveling and isn't really a foodie. I enjoy having wine with my dinner and just experiencing the whole meal, while my friend is more "eating is OK but I do it mostly because I am hungry so I'll eat just what is necessary". This certainly doesn't make her dishonest or cheap. Probably not the best traveling partner for dining out but still an honest person.

I can picture your friend, as my parents would fall into the 'frugal' category, and they do not drink. Having said that, they are honest and savvy travelers and fine company on a trip.

I go with my original post about 50 back, just let the woman see the bill and contribute her amount in cash each meal.

What Suze said. What's the big deal? She can just throw in her money at the end of the meal or pay her share later. The bill is itemized and the tip is a fixed percentage, so the numbers are all in black and white and should be easy to handle.

I'm not frugal, but I don't drink. So, I've really resented over the years splitting the bill evenly when I didn't have any of the wine or expensive sake. (Plus I've often had to then transport them home or hold their hair while they vomited in the ladies room.) Why should I subsidize someone else indulgence? Or, if the friend isn't hungry, why should she have to pay a huge amount for someone's steak or lobster when all she had was soup?

I also think the person whose friend this is should discuss it if there is any question, but past experience should tell her how this works at restaurants. I don't think (although maybe I missed it) that reedpaints ever came back and clarified whether "frugal" was a pejorative and really meant someone who wouldn't pay their share and was not just cheap but cheating others, or if it really just meant frugal.

I agree with Aine and am surprised at so many people who think people can't add a few numbers in their head or that other people should have elaborate accounting schemes and later settle up credit cards, etc.

Almost every person I have known who thinks it is a keen idea to split a bill evenly is the one who is trying to cheat the others because they ordered more expensive things. Why do people think it necessary to pay for other people's dinners rather than just paying for what they ordered? I go out wiht friends a lot and only when we've both order about the same things do we say let's just split the bill. Nobody thinks I am "frugal" (or whoever wants to only pay for what they ordered) or questions this.

IN Italy, since service is included, and tax, this is really simply arithmetic. Is it really so difficult for people to add up a couple numbers in their head? You don't have to add them to the cent, you know, but 14.80 euro is pretty much 15, plus 3.95 for a drink would be 4, and maybe one other thing. I can add a couple numbers in seconds in my head.

I would be annoyed if others suggested we split bills for no good reason, I just pay for what I ordered. I think the only people suggest that is because they order more than others or can't add.

Christina, my friends and I usually split the bill (or come up with a total without wine and add a wine surcharge if there is a person who doesn't drink) because it's so much easier. If you're only talking about + - $2.00, what's the big deal?

Christina, I can add perfectly well, thank you very much, and although I do drink wine, I am a very light eater and often order less food than anyone else in the group. But unless it is really extreme, I don't mind sharing at all. I know it costs me more than what I ate, but I am fortunate not to have to worry about a few dollars here and there and I consider the dinner to be a shared experience with friends.

I respect others' wishes when they want to pay more exactly, however, in my experience it is usually more trouble than it's worth.

If the $2 is to my advantage, I would feel bad about letting my friend pick up the slack. If the $2 is to my disadvantage, I would probably not mind, but I wouldn't be thrilled either. I make choices from the restaurant menu based on the price/value ratio and what I feel comfortable spending. I'd want my dining companion to do the same, whether she feels flush that day or not. So this idea that we should split would hamper my menu choices in the first place.

That said, I did recently attend a business lunch where we all ordered what we wanted, and then we all chipped in equally and paid for the departing guy's lunch. It worked out that the equal share was almost exactly equivalent to what I would have paid on my own. But even so, I wouldn't have minded, because this is a rare occasion and the real purpose was to send someone off happily, rather than to eat lunch.

I could not agree with Marilyn more. The dining is a "shared experience with friends". It is hard for me to understand how many people don't consider that aspect. The real question is: Would you mind spending a few extra dollars to have a nice meal, with good friends, having a good time? I do not drink alcohol, but my wife does. This usually means we paye a bit more than our friends, as most of the couples we dine with will both have a drink before dinner. It *never* crosses my mind to debate the price of the bill, and it sure isn't because I am rolling in $$$...it is the minor "cover charge" for a good dining experience!

Well, poor reedpaints is probably scared off (sorry, reedpaints!) but this has been an interesting discussion anyway.

Are frugal people out to cheat others? I don't think this necessarily follows, any more than those who enjoy lavish meals are necessarily trying to be subsidized by their friends of more conservative tastes. Character is neither a function of one's appetite nor of one's income.

Last time we travelled with another couple, we took the 'kitty' approach. The value of this wasn't so much the 50/50 (or 1/3-2/3) distribution, as that we were able to agree on an average daily budget beforehand. If we had had major differences in expectations, i.e. they had wanted to eat much more simply - or elaborately - than us, we would have split up for meals.

It sure would be nice to be so rich you never had to worry about paying for things.

I don't see how so many people could bad mouth a person who did not want to cheerfully pay for the wine, expensive meals or desserts of others.

Let's turn the tables a bit. I used to have a friend who would always order the most expensive item on the menu plus multiple glasses of wine and dessert for lunch and then expect us to split the bill even if I only had a single glass of wine, no dessert (yes, I know its hard to believe) and a much less expensive lunch dish. The excuse was "let's make it simple for the waiter and not make a fuss!" Yeah, right!

I stopped this little scam real quick. You don't need friends who refuse to pay thier own way.

The idea of a common food money pool is a hard feelings disaster waiting to happen.

when I have travelled with my 2 friends in Europe we have a "kitty".
We decide on a figure say 50 euro each and buy everything from this amount.
Train, bus tickets. Museum entry, meals etc. When it is getting low we add another 50 euro.
We used our "own" money for personal items and gifts etc.
This worked well for us and we took turns looking after the kitty.
We also did not get silly about who ate what and what cost more etc. It all balances out in the end and we had absoluttely no problems.

There's really two different threads of answers going on her~ what "we" do when traveling regarding finances & what might prove an effective method for reedpaints and her particular situation!

One trip with a friend (he had been to Paris and I had been to Venice before), I arranged & paid for everything for the 4 days in Venice, then he did the same for our 5 days in Paris. We both have similar taste in food and wine and spending styles and Venice is a tad more expensive than Paris so it worked out fine.

After reading all of these answers, I'm either very lucky, or I have chosen my traveling partners very carefully.

None of my friends that I've travelled with, which by the way, I've narrowed down to 2, (Traveling is too enjoyable for me to go with someone I don't enjoy being with 100%.) have ever tried to take advantage of me or vice versa.

If one of us eats more than the other, we simply put more in when paying the check. We certainly don't take out a calculator, but estimate things. Yes, maybe one time I might pay more than they do, but I know that the next time, they may be the ones who pay a bit more. I've been friends with these two women for more than 25 years (yikes, that makes me feel old) and we've always worked it out this way, even when we're not traveling but just going out to dinner or lunch.

I truly believe that in the long run we're coming out even. To be honest with you, I would NEVER travel with someone that I felt is going to try and make me pay for her/his way. If they are like that, there's probably some other charasteristics about them that I wouldn't like anyway.

In europe it is more common to get two bills.

where there is one bill in europe, it is more common for people to split by what they actually ordered rather than to split by the number of diners. This is just my experience living in both places. i have adapted to both ways and splitting by what you ordered is not a problem and in your case, it may be the best bet.

Wow! Imagine my surprise coming back to see how long this thread has gotten! So sorry for the late reply but I've had a hectic weekend. You haven't scared me away and I truly appreciate the time each one of you has taken to comment on this.

Okay... A few comments:

<<The easiest way to handle this on an ongoing basis is for you and your mother to pay and let the friend reimburse you for her share. >>

Yes, I think this is correct. It might simplify things at least.

<<What role is YOUR MOTHER going to play in this? After all, the "frugal" person is HER friend. So why isn't your Mother "discussing" this "issue" with the friend rather than having you end up being the "big bad person"...>>

Well that would take reams of paper to analyze and give you reasons, honestly. It IS my mother's friend, but my mother has trouble with confrontation. I'm not much better, frankly. But I know if we don't meet this head on, it will fester and get bigger and th etrip with be affected and that is the LAST thing I want to have happen.

<<Personally I would rather die than whip out a calculator>>

Uh... I have to sort of agree on this one but it may be necessary.

<<After our first meal together we devised a "Paris Pot" with each person contributing the same amount of FF (before the Euro) to the "pot" and we made one person our banker.>>

I would love to do it this way and with most of the other friends I travel with, this is exactly what we do. Works splendidly and no one feels they're getting the short end. In this case, however, for meals it wouldn't work with her (for instance: she drinks tons and tons of wine and I don't drink at all). I do plant to use the "Pot" for other expenses though... Taxi's, buses, coins for lighting up paintings, etc.)

<<f you are lucky reedpaints, the Frugal Friend will decide after a couple of days that figuring her exact bill and having the right change is a hassle and not worth the small amount of difference. >>

I'm not holding my breath on this but it would be nice!

<, I'd be interested to know if this person is frugal in the sense that she will rip you off if you don't watch out, or if she simply likes to economize.>>

No ripping off with this one... More of a heart economizer. For example: this year she visited my parents in the state they live in an they took her out to dinner four of the five nights she was in town. They paid for the dinners (which they had planned all along). She took them to a very thrifty Applebees type dinner on the last night (again, just fine as my parents are not food snobs and they thought it was nice of her). But at the end of the meal she looked at my mom and told her that she needed to leave the tip. My parents didn't think anything of this particularly but I did... I thought that after they had taken her out four nights and she was staying at the house, it would have been kind (and something I myself would have done) to pay for one dinner (all of it). She is a very, very nice lady but she's tight... She haggles on things I wouldn't dream of haggling on, hates to tip, and watches pennies very closely. I know... I know, then why on earth are you traveling with her? Call it speaking before you think if you will. It just sort of happened and as the trip draws closer, I just find myself thinking of things that should be straight before we go. In fact, I plan to head up a "planning dinner" for the three of us a couple of nights before we depart.

<<Practically speaking, how many meals are we considering? Are the three of you going to be joined at the hip? Or will you all be wandering off - to different parts of the same museum, to different museums?>>

On this trip I'm afraid it will be a joined at the hip thing. All of our plans (excluding a few of my own in which I will be on my own) are together. Anyone here going to be in Italy during October, please raise your hand! Perhaps I'll come have dinner with you!:-)

Thanks again guys...

Every trip is different, and every group of folks traveling together also. This is a great thread covering about every imaginable way to take care of mutual expenses! Great ideas, and good luck to our original poster and her trip ahead.

Reedpaints, you really have my sympathy, I have been in your situation and it turned from bad to worse over the trip. You could have cut the anxiety from the tight person with a knife! We didn't expect her to pay for any of our wine or more expensive meals but she whined at even entering a nice restaurant. I actually told her nearing the end of the trip that she could do what she wanted while we ate at a place we really wanted to try, and she said the usual, Oh that's all right, so I sort of flipped and said it is not alright with you, you won't like the prices and it will make us all miserable so we will meet up with you later. What does she do but come in like a bedraggled dog halfway through the meal and watch us eat!

For sure, have a dinner beforehand and get everything to do with money and who is paying what settled. You saw what she did at Applebees so you know from the onset that it will only be amplified in Europe.

I won't be there in October, but it might help you to know that all of the posters (almost) on this thread will be with you in spirit!

Good luck and let us know!

Reedpaints - You have my sympathy, too. Sounds like this friend of your mother is more than frugal, she is just plain cheap. It will definitely be imperative that you have your dinner beforehand and work things out because if you don't, things will go from better to worse as they did for SeaUrchin.

SeaUrchin, I know how that can be when your traveling companion doesn't even want to look at a nice restaurant. My friend was actually pretty good this year in Europe but two years before we traveled to NYC and she didn't want to spend money for any food. First she wanted to go to the store, buy frozen dinners and nuke them in the microwave at the hotel. I said, you must be nuts, go ahead if you want but not me. Then once we spent 30 minutes finding a deli that was probably 50 cents cheaper for a sandwich and after all that she decided all she wanted was soup (because she didn't want to pay for the sandwich). Why did I travel with her again? Well she is one of my best friends and she really wanted to go on the trip. I did make it clear that particularly in Paris, I wanted to enjoy some nice meals. So I think if you set expectations from the beginning, it will help.

Reedpaints, I really have to thank YOU for starting such an interesting thread.

On this board, most of us are planners. We value surprises, but our goal is to try to avoid unpleasant ones (the museum being closed, the hotel being seriously off expectations or above budget, etc. etc.)

After you related the Applebees story I realized I had framed this as a planning problem almost out of habit, but I now see it is an emotional one. At the risk of sounding like 'Dear Abby', here goes. :)

By researching hotel and restaurant prices you can help desensitize your friend to the element of surprise, but you cannot eliminate the element of her discomfort. It isn't just exceeding the budget that makes her feel anxious, it is almost a phobia about spending money, period. I have several close acquaintances with this problem. If it helps any, know that while they make you suffer, they suffer too.

So you must warn her, and also prepare yourselves, for the reality that no matter what the circumstances, she will feel like she is paying too much. Kinda like the alcoholic who will always feel that 'just one drink' is feasible. But like alcoholism, this problem has nothing to do with you or the circumstances. It is her responsibility, but also her privelege, to deal with it.

Although I don't doubt this will be an awkward if not painful conversation, consider that you aren't really being a friend to her by allowing her to exceed boundaries or cede her responsibilities because you don't want to practice the difficult and challenging art of assertion. In the Applebees case, she panicked about her responsibility, tried to duck it onto your mother - and looks like she was rewarded. Plenty of adult children often try the same thing with their parents. It is NOT being kind to 'rescue' them from being an adult or facing up to their fears. If you continue to do so, you will help destroy the friendship, let alone the trip.

Begin by apologizing - yes! for failing to take the responsibility of telling her this before. (If it helps, you are hearing from a reformed sinner in this regard.) Meanwhile, you can have a good relationship with this person, but not always an easy one.

I do realize this is a lot easier to tell someone to do, than to do.

Reedpaints, My husband and I had a terrible experience traveling with friends. It was a cruise that they begged us to go on with them. Not the best of time for us but we accepted..and decided that in the future perhaps traveling with friends was not a good idea. To this day I am confused because we had gone to SF with them a lot, wonderful restaurants, plays, shopping, taxis etc. But on this cruise nothing worked! As we arrived at each port they wanted to stay on the ship. Well actually the wife did not want to but her husband did. We did not want to take the buses, wanted to hire a car and driver. And of course they were invited. Cost was actually less than signing up for the tours offered by the ship. The husband had a fit. Saw no reason to leave the ship. My husband settled the manner by saying that we were going to hire a car and driver and if they would like to join us we would love to have them accompany us. Because the wife looked close to tears, each time the husband (with a scrowl on his face) decided to. At the end of each trip my husband would put up our fifty percent (price was arranged before we got in the car) and our half of the tip. The other husband would (again with a scrowl) pay his fifty percent share but no tip. So my husband would add more to the tip as we had wonderful drivers that went overboard to make out drives memorable. On board the ship the other husband, who always has a drink or two before dinner any time we had dined with them in the past, did not want to pay for a precocktail dinner. So we ended up treating them to cocktails each evening so the wife (who is a sweetie) could enjoy herself. Same with wine for dinner. And on and on. Unfortuantly be the time we arrived home the friendship had rather gone down the tubes. We were stressed, over budget, felt bad for the wife, resented the husband etc.
Lesson learned by this? Before a trip discuss and than discuss again. If you and your mother wish to enjoy restaurants and whatever let her friend know way before the trip. To the best of your ability let her know what cost will be. Please do not wait until you are on vacationn to try to work this out. Believe my, it will ruin your vacation. We had no idea that we were going to have the problems we had but as with all bad experiences it was a learning experience. In the future whether it was a night out on the town, a weekend away or whatever we made sure that we (if we invited others to join us) made clear what we had in mind. And when invited asked questions so that we did not accept something that did not suit us. I can't help but think of the old saying that it is better to break the engagement when you know that it is not going to work out than get married and go through a divorce later. And believe me please, it it better to have a frank and honest talk before the trip than try to work things out while on vacation. The best of luck to you. I hope you and your mother have a beautiful relaxing a fun time.

I have to say the friend's behavior is beyond frugal and well into ungracious. I don't know if you can solve her problem before the trip. I'd be tempted to say that you and your mother should resign yourself to paying for her share of the meals. Then if she is so minded, she can contribute something. And any such payment would just be an unexpected bonus. I'd be tempted to say something like - we know you're too cheap to pay your proper share of the meals, so don't worry and we will pay if you refuse. I guess that's not very friendly, though.

Will breakfast be included with your hotels? Also, is she willingly paying for her share of the hotel rooms?

The Applebees story makes my blood run cold. I hope your trip works out well, reedpaints, but I think this friend of your mother's is ungracious, stingy, and out of touch with reality. Good luck!

Well this certainly has turned into an interesting thread about money, friends, and how people handle relationships (directly or avoidance).

I've become a big advocate of being direct...hopefully nice, but clear and direct.

I think people are a bit like dogs or cats or small children. If YOUR behavior "rewards" them for their bad behavior, you are actually contributing to their bad behavior. (Now I know I'm going to get flamed for that remark... so be it.)

So if someone who always shorts their share says "Lets just split evenly for convenience" and you don't disagree, they have every right to think that the "convenience" of splitting is worth not figuring the tab to you, and that you are happy with this arrangement. They certainly will continue to propose this.

So even if it's "nicer" to avoid, I think we have a responsibility, certainly to our "friends" and even to colleagues or ongoing acquaintances , to give them honest and direct feedback. Now, I really do try to find a "nice" way to make my points, and I try not to offend them. But if we are going to have an ongoing relationship, I do feel the need to be honest.

I will only "avoid" the issue if its someone I dont' plan to see or spend time with again...

The most interesting situation was the one with the couple, where the husband was the (excuse my being blunt!) cheap boor, while the wife was lovely and mortified by his behavior. Poor woman...I'd probably amend my behavior for her, but still try to find a subtle way to make my point with him. So, if he doesn't want to pay for drinks, I'd get and pay for her drink, and offer to get him a glass of water -- after all, he doesn't want to drink! If he wants to stay on board...why not let him (unless the wife is compelled to stay with him...that is awkward. ) But these people are adults...if they say they want to stay on board, I'd be prone to take them at their word and let them.

>>I think people are a bit like dogs or cats or small children. If YOUR behavior "rewards" them for their bad behavior, you are actually contributing to their bad behavior<<

You are soooo right! I work in the service industry, and I think this goes for customers as well. It always makes me mad that the worst behaved customers seem to get more than the others.

Anyway, back to traveling, I simply refuse to travel with someone that I don't get allong with 100 %. Traveling can be stressful, as wonderful as it is, and if I'm with someone that has a trait that I don't like, such as being cheap, it would ruin the trip for me.

Oh you poor thing. I had a similar situation once when travelling with a friend. She (in order to save money) wanted to drink diet shakes for many of her meals and I (who was really on a budget - but had certainly budgetted enough to eat out every meal) didn't have much choice unless I wanted to go out on my own.
I suggest, as others have, that you have an around the table discussion before you go. You may find that she will be happy to split the bill 3 ways (which will probably work in her favour if she drinks tons of wine and you don't - perhaps you can point this out) - and maybe in kind you can suggest that if you and your mum want to go to a really expensive restaurant and she doesn't then perhaps you can go your separate ways that night or you could offer to pay for her (just don't choose expensive places very often).
If she insists on separate bills make a deal that she has to ask at each restaurant - say "look we are a little embarassed about asking for separate checks-so if that's what you want to do then can you please ask" (maybe she'll be embarassed enough to change her mind).

a few things come to mind: the Applebee's story tells me you are in for a bumpy ride (how old is this woman, anyway? single, divorced... just curious. sounds like she hasn't often had to interact with others)

anyway, part 2: she has no problem ordering drinks? yet is stingy? watch out - this isn't just frugal, I think this person wouldn't mind so much if you did pay her way. frugal people order water. she just sounds selfish and out of touch. try not to let it get to you.

several years ago, post-college, I had a roommate who was frugal (to put it kindly). she drove me absolutely bonkers. I was amazed at the ways she could "save money" - all of it annoying. believe me, when other people around you are tight, you WILL be involved despite yourself. she also had no compunctions about accepting extra from others, either. (i.e. shorting the other roommate).

what I learned from all that is - better to not only travel alone, better to live alone! other people's idiosyncrasies can be such downers. unless you are married to them or otherwise blood, no reason to put up with them in such close proximity.

reedpaints, I think you totally misstated your problem in your first post. A frugal person is one who orders the soup instead of the shrimp cocktail or the salisbury steak not the sirloin.

Your mother's friend is better described as a leech and I hope she doesn't suck the enjoyment out of your trip.

Sticky one - I have traveled with groups your size with "frugal" folks and those who just don't care. I have to admit I don't watch my budget when I travel - and I'm lucky but I understand when someone else is not in the same position, if it hasn't been discussed beforehand - even in terms of the types of places you want to eat out at it can be tricky. Usually I would always work it that I manage the bill - ask my friends to pay their share based on them reviewing the bill. Remind them to tip 10%. Pool the money and I'd make up any difference of someone not covering their fair share. I also sometimes knew if we were at a particularly pricey place I'd just grab the check and say hey my treat - thanks for coming on the trip with me...you can't expect the restaurant to manange this all the time. I also used to have each member take turns picking the restaurant in case one of us was on a budget.

Wow! The Applebee story did it! Yep! Yep! I have to agree with the other comments on how this is not frugality. I was willing to give her the benefit of a doubt, but this story cinched it. She's a Smoocher Sue.

Here's one small solution - do picnic lunches. Tell her to pay exactly 1/3 for her share of the picnic lunch. Each person then purchases her own drink. If she wants to get a bottle or two of wine, at least that's not out of your pocket. Or, you can say that you are drinking from the bottle of water you just purchased and don't need any other drink.

She's going to find other ways to make you pay for something else. The best way out of this is for each person to purchase her own - train ticket, museum entrance, etc.

Most of my friends who are frugal have good reason to be frugal - kids in college, etc. - but they go out of their way to pay for their share fairly.

We have only one friend who can be described as a Total Smoocher Sue and she's a famous nut case - famous in our family anyhow! :) Which leads to a thought: is smooching a disease, like alcoholism?

Total cynicism is settling in here - is this woman agreeing to go to Europe with you because she knows you'll end up paying for part of her trip?

Reedpaints:

Please make sure that your "Planning Dinner" is a potluck & BYOB!

At this "Planning Dinner" announce that because you will be joined at the hip during most of the day that you would like to dine alone.

I know folks freak at the thought of dining alone but no way no how would I let this person ruin my dining experience in Italy.

Of course your mom could join you as she is not the problem but breaking bread with this lady is not going to be pleasant.

Most places have continental breakfast so you could say: We will of course all have breakfast together...and most lunches are kinda looped in with seeing this, that or the other but "travel dinner" is sacred. Insist that you break up for dinner and maybe meet for dessert or coffee afterwards.

Enjoy yourself!

Easytraveler, do you mean a Moocher Molly instead of a Smoocher Sue? I'm just giggling at the thought of this woman going around smooching (kissing) everyone. :)

I like the idea of having dinners on your own, especially if suggested well ahead of time. I don't think the 3 of you can or should attempt to do this trip 24/7!

I would be glad to escort the older and much richer lady to dinner if my food/drink expenses and a gemerous tip are provided.

I must admit, the temptation to show this type of person a take-out or grocery option, then depart for a nice dinner on my own would be high...

And you are doing her a service, but otherwise, it would be difficult to stand being around her for the sightseeing and lunches with no respite.

As soon as she find a cheap option that she suggests, I would drop her off there and arrange to meet her after dinner, at the hotel or otherwise. She'll straighten up faster if you don't reinforce her behavior by supporting it. so don't make her behavior work for her but spoil your vacation and your mothers!!!

WillTravel: You're absolutely correct! LOL!

Moocher Molly it is!

I grew up in a multi-national, multi ethnic environment and when we were kids, there was one kid who kept coming around and asking to "borrow" a dime, 25 cents, etc. which he NEVER ever gave back. The other kids would whisper among themselves something like "Oh, oh, here comes xxxx to smooch my dime!" Must have been a corrupted term from some other language - hehe! My folks had a fit when I came home once thinking it was pretty cool to say "no wanchee" instead of "I don't want"!

BTW, I ran into someone this weekend who is a BIG TIME moocher - intercontinental and international. Am I thinking there's a moocher around every corner because of extra awareness generated by this thread? Maybe. But this person was so excited about his international business deals which, when questioned carefully, ended up in vague phrases. When I said it would be intresting to see him in action, all of a sudden everything became hush-hush and I couldn't - in any forseeable situation - watch him in action. Under these circumstances, I'm always glad to escape with just paying for lunch! :)