1ST TRIP TO EUROPE: PARIS, ITALY AND SPAIN, PLEASE HELP!
 

Hello friends!
My husband and I are planning a trip to Europe for the summer of 2012. The dates are looking from July 15 through the 30 so 2 weeks and 2 days (we lose the 15th and 29th for travel). The places we want to visit are as follows:

3 days in Paris
6 days in Spain (visiting Barcelona, Madrid and Granada)
6 days in Italy (visiting Rome, Venice and Florence)

I have many questions but I'll start with this. First, is this schedule feasible? Second, how would we get from Paris to Spain and then Italy? Third, are there places we must see in Spain and Italy? Do we have too many cities?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm a very organized and thorough person and I really want to plan this vacation to every detail so that we're prepared and aware of the time we have (adjusting to time change, planning for travel time in between places, etc).

Again, I REALLY appreciate any and all help here! If you'd like to provide additional information besides on here please email me at [email protected], I'd more than appreciate it! :)

Thanks again! RD

Your itinerary is not recommended, way too much cramming. For example six days in Italy to see 3 of the MAJOR cities is a crime, specally towards the end of your two weeks when you will start to get tired of the rushed pace. Same goes for Spain-- not a chance I would crammed those cities in 6 days. You asked what are your MUST see; you are the only person who truly can answer that. Go to the library/go online, read on the destinations and start two columns list: MUST SEE and NICE TO SEE. This will dictate your itinerary.

My advice would be that you pick THREE CITIES MAX and daytrip from there; i.e. fly into Paris (spend 3 days), overnight train Paris-Barcelona (3 days), fly BCN-Rome, depart from Rome. From Rome do daytrips to Florence and you may even be able to squeeze an overnight someplace else.

QQ: can you travel in the Spring or early Fall? Summers in Europe are insanely crowded for the cities and sights you will be visiting. A visit to the Eiffel Tower could very well take you the whole morning with not a lot of time (...or stamina) left for all the other sites.

Sounds like a fun, but busy, and tiring trip.

Look for cheap flights between each place ie Paris - Madrid/Barcelona ... trains and buses will take up too much time. Make sure you are quite careful as to where your flights land... if you are flying with the low cost airlines.

Ryan Air for example flies to Girona which means you need another 1.30 to 2 hours to connect via a bus trip to Barcelona. (but they state their flights are to Barcelona, for a first timer this can be confusing.) So just double check before you book.

I cannot give more info on the other places having only visited Paris and Venice (i live in Barcelona.)feel free to visit my blog where i post photos and little titbits of info if you like.
http://katcameronillustration.wordpress.com

I have to agree with Viajero2 on 2 points: its a lot to fit in, and it will be very very busy (not to mention very very hot) which doesn't make for travelling bliss! Def work out a quality vs quantity list.

thanks everyone, I will share this information with my husband! I can't get the time off of work to go in the spring and I fear we wouldn't have enough time to plan for that but it sounds like summer in Europe isn't the best so now I'm worried?!

If summer is what you get then take it! you only have to adjust your itinerary and expectations to a Summer trip in Europe. Slow down the pace, that's all.

Without knowing your travel style, I'd agree that in 15 days, 3 cities would be my goal. Notw that even though you are stayiing in 3 cities that does not mean you need to stay there, could do soem day trips. I might plan the 3 cites, and then possible day trips for each, and then decide on the fly wether to go or not.

I will hazard a guess that even with 3 cities, you would not see everything in each city.

Also, wghen you look at those 15 days, assuming you fly between destinations, build the time into your schedule to allow , say, 1/2 day to: check out of hotel, get to departure airport, flight, get bags, taxi from arrival airport to hotel, ...and then start touring.

Also, don't fly in and out of same city. Use an Open Jaw..e.g. fly into Madrid, fly home from Rome.

What if we were do to Paris for 3 nights, Barcelona for 6 and Rome for 6? I was thinking maybe a day trip to Florence and Naples if possible, looks like it's easier travel to those places then Venice. Any suggested day trips while in Spain? Again, we have never been so there isn't a must see list for us yet (I'm going to work on one) but we would just like to experience the beauty that is Europe! Any suggested must-sees by anyone with regards to Paris, Barcelona or Italy? I think three places is best so I'm going to start there and I think Paris, Barcelona and Rome might be best! Really appreciate all the help! We plan to fly into Paris from Detroit and out of Rome. Any suggested airlines? We have miles with Delta but I'm not sure enough to help us much...

Please do not do day trips from Rome to Florence or Naples.

Enjoy where you are.

We travel and have since our early 20's that is better to see a few places well than many poorly. Remember the day you travel you are packing, unpacking, checking out, checking in and getting to the bus, train, or plane and once again getting from the bus, train, and plane.

There are many relaible inter-Europe airlines such as Vueling, Ryan, and Easyjet and most have more rules than monastaries and more penalties but you can save money if you understand how to use them.

I have Delta miles and they are so confusing I had to call the other day and we have used them in the past for Spain and Turkey.

I'd add a day or two to Paris as you may be jetlagged on arrival.

please heed above advice to cut back on travel days. To make the trip fairly comfortable, fun, educational and meaningful, this has to be looked at seriously. I'd rethink long day trips from Rome, especially. The longer a day trip the more one will "spend" time-wise and energy-wise.

I'm thinking our new plan will be 3 nights in Paris, 6 nights in Barcelona and 6 nights in Rome. Is this more feasible? Any must-sees for first time newlywed travelers?

<<we would just like to experience the beauty that is Europe!>>

Then you need to change your plans. Your trip, as now envisioned, is:

1) rushed
2) expensive (because you are traveling among 3 different countries in two weeks - many, many people spend a month or two in just one and "experience the beauty.")

You need more time in Paris. Even discounting the jetlag factor, 3 days is barely enough to get oriented, never mind experience the beauty. I would divide the time equally between Paris and Barcelona (well, actually, I'd eliminate Barcelona altogether, but that's just me).

If you go to Rome for 6 days, stay in Rome. Hopping on trains and zig-zagging all over Italy is going to cost money and time. If you want to spend time in other parts of Italy (Florence, Naples, whatever)...go there and not to Rome.

The "must-sees" are the places you land, not the places you rush off to once you've landed.

If this were my trip, I'd be limiting it to two cities at most, but it's your trip.

First, you might need a map to see how far apart things are for supposed day trips.
I second the "more time in Paris". It is a much more accessible city for seeing a lot, enjoying a lot.
Checking in and out of hotels, getting from airports (the distances you are doing are LONG) takes a lot of time.
If you want to see all those places in Italy, then train to Venice for a day, go to Florence for two, and Rome for 3. Bag Naples.
Barcelona OR Rome are the outliers in my opinion. Rome is very spread out. Florence is wonderful and charming and FULL of history and art.

StCirq, why eliminate Barcelona? I agree on the time and maybe we should plan for 7 days in Paris and 7 days in Rome? Do you think that is something more reasonable? I guess we opted for more places because I don't know if we ever will go back, at least for a long time, we plan to start a family in a year or two. I really appreciate your feedback. I'll have to re-think this yet again! :)

Yes, I think that 7 days in Paris and 7 in Rome is a FAR more reasonable plan. And I would pretty much bet on your going back (pretty much everyone does once they've been there and "experienced the beauty"). As for Barcelona, it's just my personal opinion. You've chosen three destinations that are really far apart (please do consult a map and see what I mean), and of the three, Barcelona would be the one I would eliminate. Others would make different choices.

BTW, 7 days each in two cities would allow you time to make a couple of daytrips...and at far less expense than including another country in your plans.

Ok, I think we will plan for 7 days in Paris and 7 days in Rome. I for sure what to see the Eiffel Tower in Paris and the Vatican in Rome and possibly a few day trips...

What would be most accessible in terms of day trips from Rome? Also, would it be worth leaving Paris for a day or spending all 7 days there? Thanks again everyone for the awesome feedback, I feel like I have so much more of a plan now! :)

There are countless day trips one can make from Paris: Versailles, Chantilly and Senlis, Fontainebleau, Auvers-sur-Oise, Ile des Impressionistes (1/2-day trip for that), Saint Denis...do a search here on Fodors for ideas.

I'm less familiar with day trips from Rome, but Ostia Antica for sure...again, do a search; there are lots of ideas.

I'm not familiar with Rome, but Barcelona is a great city for the tourist. its compact enough that getting around in the city to all the sights is easy, its also quite cheap in comparison to other european cities, you can find really lovely accomodation deals on Airbnb. There are also awesome day trips from barcelona that include:
the churches on monserrat, beautiful villages and beaches on the coast north and south of Barcelona, a day trip to Cadaques is a winner, and you can visit the home of Salvador Dali which is really interesting. Tarragona, Sitges, Tossa del Mar are all coastal towns with loads of interesting ruins, architechture and beautiful beaches which are all AMAZING in Summer. There is so much to do here that you won't be bored!

I would be especially loathe to miss out on the beach if you can only go in Summer.
I may be biased but I would choose Barcelona over Paris even ;) (having never been to Rome)

or go back to your original plan of Paris, Rome and Barcelona.

I forgot to mention that all of the day trips from barcelona are very easily accessed through buses or trains.

4 or 5 nights in Barcelona, you would easily be able to see all the major stuff in a relaxed manner as well as doing 1 or 2 side trips.

For a first timer to Europe who is traveling in the Summer with limited time I would definitely leave Barcelona out. If you have decided Paris and Rome- 7 days each then consider an apartment (vrbo.com or holiday-rentals.com) or a package (flights+hotels) by go-today.com or gate1.com.

From Paris you can train to Versailles, Bourges, and many other beautiful villages in the environs within an hour train travel. From Rome you can day trip to Pompeii, Ostia Antica, and (why not?) Florence...This will give you a good flavor of two (2) major European cities with a very distinctive national character and great venues on to smaller side trips.

I am one who says "stay in a hotel" and particularly if this is your first trip. The hotel desk can be so helpful in directions, making reservations, etc.
Two cities are MUCH more sensible. Any guide book can give you day trips. Time to get at least two. ;o)

I found your description of the itinerary slightly confusing, so let's list the days.

"July 15 through the 30 so 2 weeks and 2 days (we lose the 15th and 29th for travel). The places we want to visit are as follows:

3 days in Paris
6 days in Spain (visiting Barcelona, Madrid and Granada)
6 days in Italy (visiting Rome, Venice and Florence)"

July 15: dep home ( are your traveling from the U.S.?)
July 16: arr Paris; sleep Paris
July 17: Paris
July 18: travel to Barcelona; sleep Barcelona
July 19: Barcelona
July 20: travel to Granada; sleep Granada
July 21: Granada
July 22: travel to Madrid; sleep Madrid
July 23: Madrid
July 24: travel to Venice; sleep Venice
July 25: Venice
July 26: travel to Florence; sleep Florence
July 27: Florence
July 28: travel to Rome; sleep Rome
July 29: Rome
July 30: fly home

As you can see, to follow this schedule, every second day you would spend at least half the day, perhaps more, checking in and out of hotels and traveling to the next destination. I think you can change locations more times than some of the others have mentioned, but to follow your original plan would be exhausting and offer only one full day to explore each location. My personal rule is no one-night hotel stays, and preferably three nights in each place.

Here's one option, assuming you are young and more energetic than others might be, but still allowing for more time n the locations you visit:

July 15: dep home ( are your traveling from the U.S.?)
July 16: arr Paris; sleep Paris
July 17: Paris
July 18: Paris
July 19: Paris
July 20: travel to Venice; sleep Venice
July 21: Venice
July 22: Venice
July 23: travel to Florence; sleep Florence
July 24: Florence
July 25: Florence
July 26: travel to Rome; sleep Rome
July 27: Rome
July 28: Rome (perhaps add a daytrip from Rome to Pompeii or Orvieto)
July 29: Rome
July 30: fly home

OR

July 15: dep home ( are your traveling from the U.S.?)
July 16: arr Paris; sleep Paris
July 17: Paris
July 18: Paris
July 19: Paris (perhaps add a daytrip)
July 20: Paris
July 21: travel to Barcelona; sleep Barcelona
July 22: Barcelona
July 23: Barcelona (perhaps add a daytrip)
July 24: Barcelona
July 25: travel to Rome; sleep Rome
July 26: Rome
July 27: Rome
July 28: Rome (perhaps add a daytrip)
July 29: Rome
July 30: fly home

I suggest we support her decision on Paris-Rome :)

renee2nay - I've got a list of popular day trips from Paris I can post if you'd like.

You have my vote for skipping Barcelona.
Nothing against Barcelona, but keeping it would make for a hectic itinerary, for me anyway.

But now I'll add to the confusion by suggesting chopping a day each off of Rome and Paris, and adding Venice for a couple of days.

As for whether to take day trips out of the cities, I vote yes. I think it's a good idea to have a change of pace from the cities. Rome, IMHO, is especially hectic, so getting out for a day is a nice break.

Thanks everyone, SPAIN IS OUT! As much as I'd love to go there, it just won't work with the time frame we have and I'm so appreciative of the posts and messages helping me make this decision. We will spend 7 nights in Paris and 7 in Rome. The plan is to leave the 15 and arrive the 16th (because of flights) and leave the 29th and arrive home the 30th (unless we're able to get home on the 29th but I doubt it!).

FrenchMystiqueTours, please do post your popular day trips from Paris, I'd love to look at them!

Now it's just time to book our flight and then we'll worry about hotels later. I figure we'll stay at the same hotel in Paris the entire time and the same in Rome, does that seem reasonable? Although I see suggestions for apartments I'm honestly not sure that will work for us since we've never been to Europe before. I heard some hotels offer breakfast with their packages so that would be ideal for us.

Any hotel suggestions for Paris and Rome is also greatly appreciated!

So here's the itinerary:

July 15 - Leave from Detroit to Paris
July 16 - arrive in Paris
July 16 - 21: travel around Paris
July 21 - take train to Rome (any suggestions regarding this? book ahead? Take Eurostar?)
July 22 - 29: travel around Rome

What does everyone think?

You porbably have another option for getting to Rome, which would be flying.

http://www.vueling.com/EN/?cadw=glo&...FRECQAodm1mZCQ

Here is a brief list that summarizes many of the most popular day trips from Paris. There are certainly others but this list covers most of the best of the biggies:

Provins (an authentic walled medieval town): http://www.provins.net/

Château of Chantilly (wonderful fairytale château, famous art collection): http://www.chateaudechantilly.com/fr/
http://www.chantilly-tourisme.com/

Senlis (small medieval town can be combined with a visit to Chantilly):
http://www.senlis-tourisme.fr/accueil-senlis.php

Reims (champagne tours, great historic cathedral, museums): http://www.reims-tourisme.com/

Epernay (champagne tours, can be combined with Reims): http://www.ot-epernay.fr/

Fontainebleau (former royal town with famous château):
http://www.musee-chateau-fontainebleau.fr/
http://www.fontainebleau-tourisme.com/

Versailles (obvious): http://www.chateauversailles.fr/homepage
http://www.versailles-tourisme.com/

Château of Vaux-le-Vicomte (the château after which Louis XIV based his garden renovations for Versailles and IMO one of the most elegant château in France):
http://www.vaux-le-vicomte.com/

Rouen (small city, lots to do, wonderful cathedral, medieval old center): http://www.rouentourisme.com/

Giverny (Monet's house and gardens): http://www.fondation-monet.fr/fr/
http://giverny.org/giverny/giverny.htm
http://www.vernon-visite.org/rgb4/who_we_are.htm

Chartres (the famous cathedral and wonderful old medieval town):
http://www.chartres-tourisme.com/

Compiègne (château with museums, wonderful old town. Can be combined with a visit to the château of Pierrefonds): http://www.compiegne-tourisme.fr/

Château of Pierrefonds (Magnificent fairytale looking château. Reconstructed in the 19th century but magnificent nonetheless. Can be combined with a visit to Compiègne):
http://www.pierrefonds.monuments-nationaux.fr/
http://pierrefonds-tourisme.net/ot/Bienvenue.html

Troyes (lovely small medieval city): http://www.tourisme-troyes.com/

Laon (medieval hilltop town with a spectacular cathedral): http://www.tourisme-paysdelaon.com/

Crécy-la-Chapelle (small charming renowned artists village):
http://www.cc-payscrecois.fr/Crecy-la-Chapelle,203.html

Moret-sur-Loing (charming walled medieval village/artists village):
http://www.ville-moret-sur-loing.fr/rubrique.php?id=189

Auvers-sur-Oise (Van Gogh and other impressionist art history):
http://www.auvers-sur-oise.com/heading/heading899.html

Malmaison (château of the Empress Josephine and a nice old downtown. On the RER A line and could be combined with a visit to Saint-Germain-en-Laye):
http://www.chateau-malmaison.fr/
http://www.rueil-tourisme.com/

Saint-Germain-en-Laye (former royal town with a wonderful château now home to the national museum of archaeology. On the RER A line and could be combined with a visit to Malmaison):
http://www.ot-saintgermainenlaye.fr/en/
http://www.saintgermainenlaye.fr/en/...ulture/musees/

Barbizon (famous artists village, can be combined with Fontainebleau):
http://www.barbizon-tourisme.fr/

These are the most popular day trips and all are worthwhile but there are many other less popular and equally worthy day trips. I could easily list a couple dozen more but only if what's on this list doesn't interest you. A good guide book for the Ile-de-France region should give you more ideas.

You could also go to the Loire region and do châteaux and/or wine tasting tours. The TGV will get you to Tours in an hour. You want to arrive in Tours Centre, not the train station Saint-Pierre-des-Corps. The tourist office is right across from the train station and that is where you'll pick-up your tour. Here is the weblink for the Tours tourist office. Click the tab on the left that says "Excursions" and you'll find all the info you need.
http://www.tours-tourisme.fr/index_en.php

If you decide on this you'll need to use the TGV website to buy/reserve your tickets. For info on these trains use the website www.tgv-europe.com for schedules and prices. If you get redirected to the RailEurope website then try again and enter "Antarctica" as your ticket collection country. The RailEurope website often doesn't show all the trains and generally has higher prices. You can buy tickets up to 90 days in advance and the earlier you buy them the cheaper they will be. The discounted tickets are known as PREM tickets but these are non-refundable and can't be exchanged.

You'll need to take a train from Paris to do these day trips. For info on trains in Paris and the nearby suburbs (métro and RER trains) use the website www.ratp.fr. Much of this website is in French so you can use an English language companion site www.parisbytrain.com. For trains that go a bit further out in the Île-de-France region use the website www.transilien.com. For trains that go further beyond the Île-de-France use the website www.voyages-sncf.com. A great website to learn about trains in France (and Europe) is www.seat61.com if you have any train questions/problems.

Paris and many of the places nearby in Île-de-France are divided into zones, numbered 1 through 5. Paris is in zone 1 and areas outside Paris are in zones 2 through 5. Some of the destinations I mentioned are in zone 5. For these journeys it will be more cost effective to buy a one day Mobilis pass for 14 euros for zones 1 through 5. This will be cheaper than the point to point tickets round trip. Plus, this pass is good for unlimited travel on all public trains and buses for one day in zones 1-5. Buy it first thing in the morning before your first métro ride and it gets you to your train station, your round trip tickets, any buses you need to use at your destination and any traveling you'll do in Paris when you return. Before you use the ticket make sure to write your name and the date on the ticket. Don't forget to stick your ticket in the composting machine (ticket validation machine) before getting on your train. You can buy these passes from the ticket machines in métro/RER stations. Sometimes these machines have an English language option. If so, look for the one day Mobilis pass option. When you get to the screen that lists your zones to choose from press zone 1 and then press zone 5. You can also buy them at any ticket counter or stores that sell RATP tickets. They are good for 60 days so you can buy it in advance if you want to be prepared. It's not valid until you write your name and date on it and validate the ticket on your first métro/RER trip or at the train station.

Some of the day trips I mentioned will require a bus transfer once you arrive at the train station. If you choose one of these I can help you with bus info.

Just a few additional comments:

If you depart Rome on the 29th, you will almost certainly arrive home on the 29th also.

You can take an overnight train from Paris to Rome, but it might well be cheaper and certainly faster to fly.

To offer hotel suggestions, we'd need to know your budget.

>better to see a few places well than many poorly<

Adu always gives wise advice, although I disagree with advising against a day trip to Florence IF you base yourself in Rome for a week. My family and I took a day trip to Florence on the train, and traveling through the lovely rolling hills between Rome and Florence was wonderful. It also gave me a taste of what Florence has to offer, and it's on my (long) list of places to which I'd love to return.

One of the mistakes we made our first trip to Europe was overplanning. We saw and did a lot in the 3 weeks we were there, but it was exhausting. Some of the most memorable moments were the unplanned ones~the picnic in the park in France, sitting in a piazza in Rome having a glass of wine....make sure you allow enough time for those moments!

As StCirq pointed out, be sure to check discount flights for one-way tickets from Paris to Rome vs the cost and time for taking the train. We found a fare on Vueling Air (bare bones discount line, they charge for WATER) for less than a train ticket, AND it saved quite a bit of travel time.

I do have another suggestion.

You can spend 5-6 days in Paris.

Then take the overnight sleeper train to Venice. Not only does this save you the half day/whole day in flying from Paris to Rome, but it allows you to see at least another city on your list.

spend a couple of days in Venice. Then train to Florence.

spend a couple of days in Florence, then train to Rome.

Or you could skip Florence and go directly from Venice to Rome. The trains that involve no change (this is very important! That you find the train trips that do not involve changing trains!) take less than 4 hours to go from Venice to Rome.

Spend the rest of your time in Rome.

It's a Paris-Italy trip, if you will.

I like Rome (spent months there), but not that much as to advise that you spend all your time in Italy in Rome.

Warning: there is only ONE train that goes from Paris (Lyon station) to Venice Santa Lucia Station without the need to change trains. It departs Lyon Station at 7:45pm and arrives Santa Lucia at 9:34am.

Check out bahn.com for train information.

Happy planning!

I've only stayed in apts., but I recommend you stay in a hotel if this is your first visit. You can get a lot of helpful info at a hotel that you'll miss if you stay in an apt.

You could keep Paris and Rome as bases, each for 4-5 days, but use two days in each country to visit nearby places that are easy to get to and don't take too much travel time. If you want to see some of the chateaus in France, then stick with 7 days in Paris. If not, then I would prefer the suggestions of 5 days in Paris and 9 days in Italy, flying from Paris to Venice, train to Rome, home from Rome. Or, if Venice is not a number one priority, then a couple of days in Tuscany would be perfect. I also hate being rushed, but honestly think for a first trip, four or five days in Paris would be fine and it would be really nice to see another area of Italy.

Europe is to be savored, not just a glance. I understand you wanting to see a number of countries in your two weeks, but I think that is too much for such a short time.

If you want to go on day trips try city discovery.com

No problem Tenthumbs, I am just going to cry myself to sleep tonight.

There's plenty of airlines the cost 40-60 euros. Be careful as 1 just closed its doors on Saturday leaving 10000 travelers stranded. I fly Ryan Airlines.