Just to be fair. We returned at 6 because we wanted to. We were told to come back at 4 but we wondered around the area longer than expected. I am glad we did!!

Two hours late is not good. At any point in time (when making the res, when you showed up before 4PM, when you showed up at 6PM) did you agree to a meal-time?

When I said "they should know what to expect" I did mean that they should have learned (unfortunately) to expect foreigners to be late. Even if they can cope with one or two guests being late there will come a point where it all breaks down and the lateness compromises their ability to provide excellent service to everyone. They just run out of time to do it all. I would wager that other guests that night got excellent service. Your two hours of wandering may have been at some expense to your ryokan experience.

I have seen instructions on some ryokan websites saying that if you do not check in by a certain time, then they can not provide dinner for you. And other sites where they request that you be at the ryokan by a certain time. And I know they expect you not to leave again after that (I only know this from research on the experience of staying at a higher end ryokan), although I have not seen that part specifically addressed on the sites.

I think the aspect of being on the "ryokan's time" is one thing that has kept me from enjoying a night at a higher class ryokan (although my overriding problem is the bedding and sleeping close to the floor).

I still would like to try a night at a very nice upper level ryokan. But I think instead of doing it at Kyoto or even Hakone (because we were busy at Hakone and found many things to do that interested us and took time past the 4 pm or so mark) I will be more inclined to try it at a place where I am going to totally relax and not see sites or have any particular experience in mind, etc. Maybe like on the Izu peninsula coast, where there are not many distractions besides the environment and sea.

And you will probably get a better value. I have had great ryokan experiences at a cost of 15,000 including charming, kind, gracious service. and on one occasion service that was obviously scripted. You are expected to leave the place. After dinner, take a soak, then put on your yukata, geta, and tanzen and take a stroll about town.

Any names and locations, mrwunrfl? Maybe I will shake my budget loose one of these days :)

oh,yes, Mara

Momiji-so on Miyajima. I don't think they actually call themselves a ryokan. Had a nice small room with blond wood. Tea and a sweet with a view of the stream and forest. Maid was very kind and helpful. The okamisan (the wife, hostess, lady of the house) was an elder woman who mothered me a bit. She explained the dishes to me and was suitably impressed when I mentioned the Seto Nai Kai after she explained that the one fish was from the Inland Sea. She pointed out that another piece of fish was sea bream, which I recognized by it's Japanese name of tai and we shared a joke about that fish. Dinner was in a private room next to my lodging. Breakfast was oishii and okamisan kindly told me to chew more slowly! Of course, I automatically said "yes ma'am" and behind me I heard her make a pleased sound. This seems a bit silly now, written out like this, but it was a very enjoyable experience to have personal experience like that across language and cultural divides. Bathroom was modern with a Japanese bathtub for soaking and a standup/stool shower combo. No public shared bath.

Mimosusogawa Bekkan, Shimonoseki. There were two maids, or one and okamisan's daughter, who took care of us and who both were very friendly. okamisan explained the dishes to us and was very lively and helpful, explaining to my nephew how to enjoy the food. She was very lively, very old, and very tiny. Daughter took a photo of her, with a happy smiling face, standing between me and my nephew (6 foot 3 and 6 foot 6). Afterwards, he and I joked about it because during the photo she had her arms around us except that even though her arms were straight out she was so tiny she was more or less grabbing out butts. I mailed them copies of the photos. The place had a bathroom but also a couple of decent public baths.

Sakamoto-ya, Nagasaki. For 15,000 yen you get a 100 year old ryokan right in the city. It is old Japan inside. The bath in the room was wooden, with wooden planks covering it. Was surprised to see that it was full and hot. Sit in and the water overflows and goes into a drain on the floor.

Hanaya Ryokan, Noboribetsu Onsen. This is a ryokan hotel with western beds but Japanese meal served in adjacent like in a traditional ryokan and with the usual service. Noboribetsu Onsen would be an excellent place to enjoy a traditional ryokan because the town, Noboribetsu Onsen, is small and is there for the onsen. This is the place to stroll about town in your yukata and geta. And go to bath-visit one or two of the big hotels to try out the marvelous baths.

It was Sumiyoshi in Takayama where okamisan went about explaining the dinner and being nice in a mechanical way, just repeating an explanation she had done many times before. I didn't enjoy the place but others loved it.

Takayama is a bit touristy, like Gion, and I think that some of the people who deal with foreign tourists are just a bit worn out by them, a bit jaded. Rude, even in Gion. But they do have to deal with rude and crude foreign tourists (none of us here at fodors dot com, of course) in Kyoto so it not a big surprise. Or just normal nice tourists who don't have their thinking caps on due to jet lag or whatever.

OK. Just to finish with our whole ryokan experience. We were told check in was at 4 and also said dinner could be between 5.30 and 7.30; so we were not late for anything! Also, FYI they do encourage guest to go outside at night to experince the Gion area, the street just behind the ryokan is known as a Maiko street.

Dainas, just to be clear, my comment above was general in nature. I have heard and seen on some ryokan websites that one is expected by a certain time in order to be served dinner.

Arigatou gozaimasu, mrwunrfl!