TRIP REPORT JAPAN
 

Hello to all! Came back a couple of days a go from Japan. First want to give thanks to all of you for all the suggestions everything went perfect. I am going to tell you all about the threee hotels that we stayed at and a couple of other suggestions. Hope it helps all future travellers.

In Tokyo we stayed at the Reinassance Tobu Ginsa TOKYO. We used Marriott points. Somebody had mentioned about extra charges at this hotel when using miles, so I decide to send a n email to Marriott asking that, they answered me back saying that there were not any additional charges. Surprise!!!! We arrived at the hotel and at check in we are told about a charge of 25000Y / day that we had to pay. We were very tired and said nothing. Later that day we mentioned our correspondence with Marriott and were asked to show that email. Found it, print it and gave it to them. After many comings and goings we were told that we did not have to pay anything. (They even showed us a paper in which Marriott stayed that the any Marriott Rewards members staying in a hotel outside the US were to pay any additional taxes imposed by foreign governments).

Great location only two blocks from Ginsa where all the restaurants and great stores are. It has a subway station in front. Is a ten minute to the Tsukiji Fish Market. The hotel is nothing special. I guess all the Renaissance are like that. Clean rooms & nice staff. However, it has something very good….. Right before the elevators you will find all the suggested tourist walks and visits the nice thing is that it is made by the hotel so it is very simple and with all the instructions about how to get to places from the hotel normally with a little map,. They have maybe 10 sheets of information. Suggested walks, suggestions for that specific weekend, museums and so on! Very, very helpful.


Our first night in Kyoto was at Yoshima Ryokan. It is very difficult to say a definite word on this. GREAT location in the middle of Gion, nice place with a beautiful garden. We paid 20.000 Y per person…. Maybe we were expecting too much but we think that for that price we could have stayed in a western hotel and had gone to an excellent restaurant. By anybody’s standards 40,000 for two is very expensive even if that includes dinner. Diner… …….. was without any doubt the poorest we had in our entire trip a total disappointed. I don’t know if Keiseki dinner is that – we didn’t want to try it again to find out). I know we could have pay more ( I am glad we didn’t – they we not available). The price of that same night at the Granvia, Hyatt or Westion were all less that 18,000. That means if we had stayed at any of these hotels we could have had a 22,000 dinner and then again that is a GREAT DINNER - to say the least- anywhere. So as many of you have said it all depends on you. I just don’t think that it was worth it to pay that much for that experience. I think in this case you pay for the location!! I will more than happy to answer more specific question regarding the Yoshima. http://www.yoshi-ima.co.jp/en/policy/index.html

The rest of the nights in Kyoto we stayed at the Hyatt Regency Kyoto. AS many of you know they opened only three months ago. BEAUTIFUL hotel!!! Rooms were not very big but very nice. The best thing was the Bath room, the best I have ever seen!!!! It has a independent toilette, a bath (normal size, maybe smaller than desired) but the shower is so big that you don’t want to get out!!!!!!!!!! Amazing. Very goods bed. You can get a computer from the lobby and get online for I think -15,000 Y maximum for 24 hrs- It has a bus stop right in front and next to our favorite temple Sanjusangen-do (the one with the 1001 Buddhas). We tried the room service one and food was very good and not expensive. They don’t have as many options as the Westyn or the Granvia. The only have an Italian place with a bakery (they charge 700 Y for an 8 oz orange juice not fresh out of Tropicana big box) but pastries were not expensive. They have another restaurant at the lobby level and another one downstairs. They also have a sushi bar next to the bar. The spa is nothing special but expensive. The use of the gym is free but to use the wet area is something like 16,000 Y per day (that is only a sauna and steam room). Staff seem very helpful, concierge services good but nothing splendid.

We were always thinking if we had made the right choice regarding hotels in Kyoto. We had a drink at the Westin and found it too big and too old. The Granvia seems to be very nice, convenient to all the places and it does not look like a hotel inside a train station. I think if I come back to Kyoto I will stay at the Granvia. It also has the post office (24hr - ATM) next to it…..and in Japan that is always a plus.

I will come back later with one great place we discover in Osaka, SPA WORLD and a couple of restaurants.

It's too bad about the Yoshi-ima. I don't think you were expecting too much...the place bills itself as a great place with a great meal and cultural experience.

I wondered if it would be a good ryokan experience or not as it seems to be geared to non-Japanese and I've now learned it is included as a $480.00 (for one person for one night) option on a tour. Now we know for sure it's not worth $480 per person.

A good kaiseki dinner is indeed very good. The dishes are seasonal and local, so highly variable. A poor rendition of one could be very bad indeed...poorly prepared boiled dishes are tasteless for example. The portions are always small, and one fine point of kaiseki is that you should finish with a feeling of wanting a bit more...this is a kind of way to entice you to come back again.

The Renaissance wanted to charge you ¥25,000 yen per night??? That's more than the room cost I think. Maybe you meant ¥2,500? I hope. Good you didn't pay it too. We use Hilton points a lot to stay in Hiltons in Japan and have never had to pay anything like that.

Spa World is popular. We have a similar place in Kanazawa called Renais. My daughter loves it.

Hi DIANAS! I knew it was you posting your trip report due to the caps!

I think you might like the Okura hotel in Kyoto. It is run by Japanese and is very western in style. It has a BIG shopping and dining area under the htoel connected to the subway stop (called Zest) that gives you many dining options right there (both inexpensive and nicer, Japanese food, Chinese, Western style coffee shops and cafes, etc. Some of the nicer dining is right in the hotel basement level (along w/many high class women's boutiques). The location is excellent, right next to City Hall for people watching from the window, right on subway line (in basement), bus stops right outside and at night you can walk to ceotnral Kyoto (starts one straight out of front of hotel). I booked early (8 months ahead) and got 25200 yen rate for two, big nice rm, two full size beds. Rates close to time of the stay were 47500 for same rm. though, so book early.

That said, thank you for trying out the new Hyatt and giving the report on it. I am torn now as to whether I would try it or not, or if I would go back to Okura. I have stayed at Westin. I would not want to stay at the train station at Granvia personally, that is just me.

Regarding the ryokan, well, you tried it. I know myself well enough to know I wouldn't want to spend the money for it and probably wouldn't enjoy the food as much as it costs. And I just don't like sleeping on the floor, no matter what is under me. I enjoyed our one night at a ryokan in Hakone (inexpensive for a ryokan, not a high level of service and we opted out of dinner) and would do that again, but not a high level one. So yes, everyone is different, and you have to know yourself to know if it goign to be as splendid an experience for you as others might experience. And now you've tried it out and know.

Awaiting the rest of your report...

I'm happy you didn't have to pay the extra charges at the Marriott. We did, and when we checked in it was a little shock - but since I considered the room to be free (they were points that were a gift from my sister) I didn't really mind. If they had been my hard earned points I'm sure I would have felt differently.
I would have been very disappointed if our guest house experience had been anything like yours. We did not stay at a ryokan as the price was out of the question.
I don't think you were paying just for location and the price seems to high for what you experienced. That's a little sad to me. You want to have lots of experiences while on vacation and you paid a premium for something that you did not get.

I can't wait for your next post.

Could not agree more with all you regarding the Ryokan experience. Emd, you are right, the hotel at the train station is not the ideal…… The Okura sounds just about perfect!! Yes…the caps…that is so me. Wonder if there is a graphologist in the forum to analyze these…. :)

I promised Osaka, so here we go.
We wanted to have an ONSEN experience. Hakon was too complicated since it was a weekend and trains back to Tokyo were already full. We had read about Spa World in Osaka and decided to go. We took the train to Nara in the morning, visited a couple of temples and went on to Osaka. In Osaka we visited the observatory tower and decide to go straight to Spa World. Took a taxi, paid a fortune and the subway station was just in front of it! It was further that expected but totally worth it.

It was a real experience. If you are one of those people that loves massages, steam rooms, whirlpools and so on….you have to try this place it will certainly be one of the most amazing experiences you can have. The water comes from underground springs. The place is divides into two main areas one floor is for man and one for women; one floor represents all the European bathing alternatives and the other one the Asian ones. It is basically the same for both, they actually switch users every month or so men and women can try both. They have all type of massages and beauty treatments for very reasonable prices. I will say less than half price of the hotel spa rates. On the top floor they have a family area in which they have a pool and all sort of water slides and games for the family in which swimsuits are required (not for the same sex floors). Kids are allowed in all floors. They say they can hold up to 5,000 people at the same time... so just picture the size of the place. It is a very nice clean place and NOT tacky at all. We went on a Saturday expecting it to be somehow crowded (the reason why I was not very happy about going but my husband insisted, I was so glad he did). It was not crowed at all. I will say there were never more than 2 people in one place/pool at the same time. I did a mud bath and a salt bath included. Also did a shiatsu massage and one made with the feet; both great. They also have a few restaurants and a great juice bar. The entrances was 2,700 Y for up to 3 hours but the next rate was 3,000 fro more than 3. Not a big difference. It is open 24 hrs. They also have a hotel…looks very nice in the brochure, did not have time to visit it.(the last train back to Kyoto was at 9.40 PM) We took the subway (JR system) back to the station and took the last Shinkansen to Kyoto. The ride back to Kyoto was 15 minutes….yes it took us longer to get from the Spa to the station (maybe 20 with a transfer) It was really a great experience!!! I have their web page somewhere; will try to find it later.

I think SpaWorld sounds fun, a bit like Yunessun in Hakone that we went to. I like having a place to have fun, relax, bathe with the bathing suit on, esp. since I have my teens w/me when I go. If I am back in Osaka or Kyoto I will try out SpaWorld- thanks for posting.

Did they have any other theme bathing (like Yunessun had red wine bath, skae bath, green tea bath, coffee bath, and also dead sea salt- that one was a trip)?

Prices are about the same at both places.

DIANAS, tell us more about Yoshiima. What time of day did you arrive? What happened after you arrived? What was your room like? Do you recall how it was laid out and the furnishings? How did the staff at the place treat you? Was your bedding comfortable, did you sleep well?

About half of the cost of your stay was the meal. What exactly was wrong with it?

Thanks for the report. We can all use your info to help others.

A couple of nits: 25,000Y does sound like way to much for a hotel charge; it is a room rate. And it was probably 1500/day for the computer and 1600/day for the health center?

The single use rate for Yoshiima is 25,000 to 35,000. So it is not worth $480 for single use, because Yoshiima doesn't actually charge that amount. Based on this report, it doesn't sound like Yoshiima is worth the 20,000 pp double and it is hard to tell whether it is worth it based on nickn's more positive report on the other thread.

Great to hear you had fun at Spa World.

ONe thing- I don't think of places like Yunessun or Spa World as onsen. They do use thermal natural waters but they are more like onsen combined w/a park sort of atmosphere. I think of onsen as being much more traditional, w/a natural type bathing environment. I think both types of places are cool and fun in different ways. I plan to do more of the traditional onsen when I go back next time, not staying in the hotels that are affiliated w/many of them, but just going to them for day use.

The water came from "underground springs" at spa world. If the springs were naturally hot, then spa world used onsen water. They baths were not typical onsen baths.

Why would you not stay at a hotel with an onsen?

I think you are saying what I am saying, that they are not traditional onsen baths.

I meant to say I don't particularly want to stay at a ryokan w/an onsen, not a hotel. My bad.

You want to stay in a hotel, but go to a bath at a traditional onsen at a ryokan. Is that it? And you are not interested in staying at an onsen hotel because you really want the traditional kind at a traditional onsen?

Oh goodness, this is getting a bit complicated. I don't understand the second part of your question. Let me try to simplify. I will likely stay at a hotel w/a western bed and go visit the onsen baths at a more traditional onsen ryokan, as you can at places like Kurama (and as I am finding out in my research for my next trip that you can do at many other onsen). But I have no desire to stay at and sleep at a ryokan affiliated w/a traditional onsen (which provides japanese style sleeping) because, as I think you know, I really don't like sleeping close to the floor and I do not sleep well in that situation.

yes, i left my brain at work. there are many nice baths at onsen hotels. places with western beds

emd...but didn't you know that many of the onsen hotels/ryokan DO have a limited number of rooms with beds? If it's the beds that are keeping you out of the onsen hotel and ryokan, fret no more. We'll find you a lovely place...with BEDS!

Yes, I do know that, but not the ones I am looking at visiting on my next trip, unfortunately- no western beds in those particular ones but I can visit the onsen baths without staying overnight.

Yes, a lot of places have time during the day when they allow outside visitors to use their bath facilities. This time is usually between check out and check in time.

Where do you want to go?

I appreciate it, but let's drop the specifics for now. I appreciate the offer of help but quite honestly I am not even sure if I can go back in the next year due to big issues w/my spouse and family and other things. So I am looking into it quietly and if it gets more concrete, I'll post and ask for more specific help (you can count on that!) I don't mean to be evasive, was just trying to point out the difference in character between a traditional onsen and a place like SpaWorld, and I sort of got myself entangled in something I am not ready to share the dream specifics on yet.

Hopefully DIANAS (w/her caps) will come back and give us some more info on her ryokan stay. I think her experience has sparked good and fruitful discussion.

Yes, I hope she gives more details too.

You are quite right about the major differences between places like Spa World and a luxury onsen. Both are nice, but very different.

We stayed at the Granvia, and it was great.

Sorry to hear about your ryokan/kaiseki experience.

We had a real letdown/bummer/disappointment/overpriced Kaiseki experience in Gion. (I wonder if that is common for that neighborhood; it seems a little touristy, and also that it's best days have passed.)

We had an amazing kaiseki experience at a restaurant called Wakudan (spelling?) in a restaurant connected to the train station. It was unbelievable, and only $50 each. One of the best meals we ever had.

So give kaiseki another chance, just make sure you go to a good place; the conceirge at the granvia is extremely helpful.

DIANAS, I second mrwunrfl and hope that you post with more details about your stay at Yoshi-Ima. We have reservations to stay there for one night in August, so I'd definitely like to hear more about your experience.

We've also got reservations for 3 nights at the Granvia. After reading various reports about the Granvia and other hotels, I keep debating whether it would be wise to change hotels, but the warnings about hot it will be in August make me believe that staying as close to the transportation hub as possible (and I don't think you can get much closer than the Granvia) is our best choice.

Thanks!

Have read the above threads about the kaiseki dinner, etc at a ryokan.

I may be paranoid, however, I have a suspicion that when a foreigner presents for a stay/meal at a traditional setting in Japan, especially one where foreigners are not regularly received, they may serve a less than authentic meal/service, one that they can get away with with an unknowing foreigner, but would never serve to a Japanese national who knows what to expect.

I do not think that this is done in any malicious sense but some places may assume foreigners would neither recognize, nor appreciate the authentic presentation.

The thing about Yoshi-ima, though, is they are heavily marketed to foreigners, and are also an option on at least one tour run for foreigners.

I would disagree about places serving foreigners less authentic meals if they weren't used to seeing foreigners...if anything, the opposite would be true. If a place sees a lot of foreigners then they might serve food that they think might better suit a non-Japanese taste. I don't know if it happens...it might in some places. This is the reason, though, that I have trouble recommending places that make a point to accommodate foreigners. I've just gotten the feeling that they charge more than they should and that they may not be as nice as they should be for the price.

In our experience, we've had the best meals and service in places that see few, if any foreigners.

Kim, does your last observation apply to Hiiragiya and other luxury ryokans (I like this term "luxury ryokan" that is defined at japaneseguesthouses)? I see it recommended at both fodors and frommers, so it must be accommodating to foreigners. I imagine that there are others that don't.

I agree with alibi13. It is over-touristed by jet-lagged foreigners and many of the people who work there are weary of them. If what okoshi2002 suggests is happening (and it is) then it is going to happen in Gion. Which brings me back to a suggestion that another poster and I made about staying at a ryokan in some other location, like Hakone, where you can also enjoy an onsen and get a better value than in Kyoto.

oh, i see that a couple of the things i touched on were covered in that other "incredible?" post. was looking to see if you (Kim) mentioned where your folks stayed on their visit. ?

Never stayed at Hiragaya or other well known by foreigners. Have stayed at Kagaya in Wakura Onsen, which is luxe, and by the nature of its location, rarely sees foreingers. Service was over the top...to the point almost where I wanted them to relax a bit I think. Baths were many, indoor and outdoor, and of various types. Food was exquisite. Dinner was endless it seemed, and breakfast was almost as involved.

My parents stayed at ... for the life of me I can't think of the name right now...in Takayama. Elainee stayed at the same place about 2 years ago. We stayed about 8 years ago. Our experience was lovely, but Elainee's wasn't so great...maybe a change in the place over the years. Maybe too, we had a Japanese style room which was beautiful, and Elainee and friends had the only two western bedrooms in the place and they said they seemed to need to be redone. In our case, we were the only foreigners...in their case as well.

We've also stayed in some less expensive places, and did a test night in a place called Chaya in Kanazawa. The city of Kanazawa paid for us to stay at Chaya as reviewers...how did they treat foreigners...as they were trying to increase the number of foreign visitors to Kanazawa and wanted to be sure the recommended lodging choices were actually foreigner friendly. It was nice, meal an exquisite crab dinner, course after course of crab...but we found the bath to be boring with only 2 tubs, and the building and room a bit tired and in need of refurbishment. Futons were very good though. Service was excellent. They also did not see many foreigners.

okoshi2002 was saying places that DON'T see foreigners a lot don't treat them as well...right? I'm saying the opposite, and I think you are too.

oh, you are right on the last thing.

your folks stayed at Nagase. I remember that is where glorialf stayed and is the place in Tak. (it is in all the guidebooks).

Please- I did not say foreigners were not treated well. I said they may not receive as an authentic as a presentation. And I believe this can be true in some establishments.

not treated <u>as</u> well, then?

But not being treated as well is approximately equivalent to not being treated well. Whether it was maliciously intended or not what they did was racial discrimination.

One can be treated well and not receive an authentic presentation of food and surroundings.

Not being given an authentic presentation could well be equated with not being treated well. If someone seeks out a ryokan or onsen stay in order to have an experience, and they are given less of an experience because they are foreigners, that is certainly not good treatment. It may be courteous treatment, it may even be friendly. But the foreigner wouldn't be getting the same thing as a local person/Japanese person, yet they would be paying at least the same price, maybe more. That's poor treatment.

It wasn't Nagase...it was Seiryu. Now I remember...i just spent 1 1/2 hours planting flowers at the elementary school...my sunbaked memory is working better than my just woken up one.

&gt; One can be treated well and not receive an authentic presentation of food and surroundings.

I understand what Okoshi meant. Sometimes the receiving side (e.g. ryokan) assume, maybe wrongly, the Japanese authentic way (whatever it is) is not suitable for the foreign tourists so they modify the things a bit to what they assume again to be for foreigners' tastes. And these are well intended, if off the mark. If this happens often or not is another matter, that I don't know the anwer.

okoshi, you are not paranoid, your suspicions are correct because some people do try to &quot;get away with&quot; treating foreigners with less than the standard service. This happens at places that do not frequently have foreign tourists and at places that do. It happens intentionally and it happens unintentionally.

It happens very infrequently.

Wowwww…just to add a token to this discussion hope it helps!!!
First I am going to give more details about the Ryokan. It is kind of funny to write this after reading all your comments. The room at Yoshima was Ok, normal size and clean, with a nice garden view; the room was actually in the garden; that was nice. The bath was not nice, at least for my standards. The bath was just a box of wood (I know it is a very fine one) deep but small. It has a W.C. in a separate room. I know many don’t even have that but anyway…just giving all my experience. That was OK until I ask for the public bath, thinking that the Ryokan had a nice (bath, onsen or something in which we could get in and relax) The public bath was just a small room with a western style bath tub, deeper and bigger that the one each of us have a t home). The futons were good and we had a good night at the floor, after we woke up at 12.30 (jetlag or discomfort I still don’t know). At 8.30 (that was the latest available time) a lady knocked in our door with breakfast. It was OK, it was better that dinner. The lady rolled the beds and brought us the food.

But let me go back to the night before. We arrived around 3 and were told to came back later to do the check in. Came back at 6 and had diner at 7.30. A lady brought some hot towels and tea. A couple of minutes later a tray with maybe 5 little plates, put it on the table and left. Came back maybe 10 or 15 minutes later with another tray with other 4 or 5 little plates. Also, left, two little plates with a little piece of melon on the floor and left. We were there starring at each other eating things without knowing what they were but the worst part of that was not the fact of not knowing but not enjoying because nothing tasted great, only one thing tasted really bad, but then again nothing was delicious as delicious as we had all the time in Japan. They had a tea ceremony on a little tea room next to us at 8pm. We went there had tea and came back. I think that is pretty much all I have to say about our out of this world experience at the ryokan in Kyoto for 40,000 Y!!!

Just to add something to what has been said here. I first visited Japan 17 years ago and stayed with my then college roommate a Japanese girl. We went to a Ryokan and the bath experience was great and the food, at least what I remember made me said wow more than once! It is a shame that I lost contact and have no names for those places. It was probably Hakon. Then again I was with my Japanese friends!!!!

Spa World comment to follow!

Regarding Spa World. I will say it again it was a great experience!!! But I will also say that it will be good only for those people that like to relax and enjoy get pamper. The whole thing is an ONSEN, if we are talking about the hot spring waters. But not only is the water is the atmosphere, they have a corner in which you find four stone onsen -the size of two normal size Jacuzzis with different water tempetures and also different fragrances; they have a wood one (same size), and two small ones round also made of wood (for one person – very nice) none like the one at the ryokan!!! All these in an open air space! I am not saying that it should be your Onsen experience or maybe it should be….. : ) It is nice, it is very quite, it is affordable and it is very good for you !

We tried an Onsen in Nikko. A hotel next to the bus stop when you go up to the mountain. It was really cold and all the restaurants were close. We walk to that hotel and found out they had an Onsen. Went in, very nice, very hot and almost the same price than Spa World.
Also tried on place in Kyoto, good but after going to SPa World....not so good and then again same price!
So… if you are in Kyoto, have a JR Pass and want to relax for a couple of hours I will say GO for it. Remember I said it only takes 15 minutes on the Shinkansen to go from Kyoto to Osaka.

Well, that doesn't sound like a good experience.

I do understand them asking you to come back later at check-in...a bit. On their Japanese pages check-in time is listed as 4:00 pm and check-out at 10:00 am. I couldn't see this information on their English pages, and I don't know if they gave you that information when they confirmed your reservation. Check-in and check-out times are strictly enforced.

At check-in, you didn't have tea and a small sweet? This is usual and I'm surprised that you didn't have it.

The bathroom setup in the room is normal. The toilet is always in a seperate room from the bathtub...it's just how Japanese houses are. Probably because a bath is meant to take time for relaxing...and the toilet may need to be used during that time. My house has a bathroom with a tub and shower, attached to another room with a sink and our washing machine. We have two toilet rooms, one on the first floor and one on the second floor. The only place you'll find toilets and tubs together is in hotels and some mighty tiny apartments with unit baths.

Ryokan public baths can be lovely, or can be very simple as the one in Yoshi-ima was. It is the onsen ryokan/hotels that have the amazing baths.

The dinner service sounds horrible. The food I can't comment on, but the service just sounds abysmal. The meals can come on trays with a few dishes at a time, that's OK. Leaving the melon on the floor for you to serve yourself when you were ready is very poor. Also, if your meal time was 7:30 and you were finished in time for the tea ceremony at 8:00, that's just not the way it should be. A kaiseki meal is meant to take time, be served slowly, each dish tasted and enjoyed slowly. What it sounds like to me is that you had a &quot;10 course&quot; meal served in 2 courses. Better service would have had the dishes served one or two at a time as a relaxed pace, with the next dish arriving soon after one was almost finished.

I'm guessing you found the portions small, which is the nature of kaiseki. Each dish is maybe 3 or 4 small bites. Dessert is a small piece of seasonal fruit. The thing is, with so many dishes, you should end up feeling almsot full...but not full...that slightly &quot;underfed&quot; feeling is by design, to make you want to return for more (at another time).

I would have also expected them to explain what the dishes were to you...they do promise a cultural experience, and they do market heavily to foreign guests looking for an &quot;experience.&quot; Every time we've stayed in a ryokan or onsen, as well as every time we've had a kaiseki meal, the dishes have been explained to us...we have always been asked if we needed explanation, and have felt free to ask questions. The majority of places I have gone do not see many non-Japanese guests, but I've never experienced silent service which you seem to have received.

I can understand your disappointment. It sounds like you paid a premium for location and for the English language website. I can say that your experience sounds unlike any ryokan experience I've ever had. I hope that someday you get the chance to try somewhere else and it is much, much better. I'm also wondering, was the only interaction you had with the staff choosing meal times? I've always been able to talk with the room staff, they've helped with wearing the yukata properly, explained the slipper system, gotten tea and drinks anytime. It doesn't sound like you really had any service at all. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank you for your comments...I think many of here have been waiting to hear more.

Finally, on the subject of treatment of foreigners, mrwnrfl got it right. Different treatment/poor treatment of foreigners happens sometimes. There are places that have signs &quot;no foreigners&quot; and there are places that welcome them. Luckily the &quot;no foreigners&quot; places are not the majority. In the case of Yoshi-ima, it seems to me that they are very accustomed to foreigners and operate under the assumption that foreigners won't know a thing about the service they should receive in a ryokan so they can offer less service. They can charge a medium price because it is a nice looking place. I wonder how much of their business comes from tour groups...I'm thinking quite a bit. With a tour, the tour guide would do the explaining...the ryokan staff can relax.

Thanks for coming back DIANAS! How did it come about that you had dinner at 7:30PM? How was that arranged?

I am sorry I said 7.30 , it was 6.30, dinner was at 6.30.
Regarding the bath being in a separate room that the WC; I just love it!
At check in we were given a little &iuml;nstructions book&quot; with all the information regarding our stay: Yucata, food, bed, etc. It was nice, but then not that nice . A nice complement to a nice stay not for a &quot;so-so&quot; stay!
Sorry...I have to run!

The service you got was poor and not acceptable. Check-in at 6PM is a little late, but ok if that time and the meal time were arranged when you stopped in before 4PM. If you didn't schedule the times, then still ok because this is a place that caters to foreigners. They should know what to expect and how to cope with it.