Tokyo + Kyoto (10 days / 9 nights)
 

I have done some homework by going to through old threads regarding the 2 cities. From what I've gathered I have come to realize that I might be in for more then I bargained for. :D

Background: My girlfriend and I are planning on visiting Japan for 10 days (late May / early June) - first Far East trip. We've gone through several Euro. cities in the past and always managed to see the 'necessities' without any tour guides. We've also learned a valuable lesson about minimizing the stress in obtaining the ultimate experience. We've done this by staying at the hotels located in the most central part of the cities we've visited. We like to be where the action is. Moreover, we look to find the nicest reasonably priced quality hotels given the higher cost that comes with location. We don't want to learn the history of the places we visit, but rather experience it first hand. I feel learning is best suited for the classroom. It's easier to retain the information gathered from books especially when one is forced to regurgate it on an exam. :)

Objective: We want to split our Japan trip between Tokyo and Kyoto. We are flying into Narita from the US. With that said, I would presume that we would want to end our trip in Tokyo where were could do our shopping and still make our flight out of Narita. I much prefer Tokyo because I'm a gadget freak. My girlfriend would more likely appreciate the countryside. We possibly would want to squeeze Nara for a day trip while in Kyoto.

Discussion:
1. Are we likely to be flying into a rainy season with these dates?

2. We technically would have to split the trip with 4 1/4 days + 4 nights in one place and 5 days + 5 nights the other. Which should take precedence; Kyoto or Tokyo?

3. If we decide to go Kyoto first how do we get there from Narita (flying in late afternoon)? In addition, how much time + money would it run us?

4. Which centrally (preferrably) located hotels would anyone suggest for the two cities? Keep in mind that we are looking for nice accomodations at reasonable/discounted prices ($150-$220 - per night). So far we have placed these spots on the bubble: Tokyo - Intercontinental Tokyo Bay, The Mansion at Popongi (not central). Kyoto - Hotel Kyoto Okura, Westin Miyako Hotel, Granvia Kyoto. From the pictures we've seen on websites Japanese hotels appear to be much nicer then some of the highly priced hotels we've stayed in Europe (with the exception of the Krasnopolsky in Amsterdam - well worth the money). Any comparable suggestions appreciated.

5. What are these JR passes good for if they can't be used in subways? Are there no subway passes?

6. What is the luggage transportation service? Could we have our luggage shipped to meet us at our Kyoto hotel from Narita airport to eliminate stress? Could it possibly get there before us for the time that it would probably take us to travel from Narita to Kyto by train/bus/car?

I can't think of anything else at the moment. Every bit of advice would be a whole lot of help to us. Thanks.

Bonjour BigFeat,

I've been and I'll be there at the same period, and the weather is just fine at this time of year.

Make hotel reservation early enough since it is a rather busy season.

2) Favor Kyoto: easier to navigate, lots to see of both old and new, you can go to Osaka (less than 1 hour) for gadgets, daytrips galore (Ohara/Sagano and other countryside areas, Nara, Himeji, the Inland sea, ...).

3) you need approx. 1 hour to get out of immigration/customs, 1 hour to Tokyo, 3 hours to Kyoto. Depending on how late you fly in, you'd be better off spending first night in Tokyo, close to Tokyo or Shinagawa station, and take an early Shinkansen to Kyoto.

4) I never go into hotels (favor inexpensive/moderate ryokans), but IMO best locations in Tokyo include Asakusa/Ueno/Kanda for easy accessibility to all areas, airport, and all there is to see/do. In Kyoto, being close to the station means easy transportation everywhere but you're at least 45 min on foot from the main centers (Shijo, Gion, ...). Think of renting a bicycle, one of the best and cheapest way to visit Kyoto.

5) JR passes will save you $ and hassle on long distance transportation. 7 days pass is cheaper than the Tokyo-Kyoto and back fare, for example. JR pass covers two of the most useful intra-city lines in Tokyo, the Yamanote (circle) and Chuo (from Shinjuku to Tokyo). There are daypasses in both cities on all public transportation. Look at www.jnto.go.jp ("getting around") for an overview. If you spend the first night in Tokyo, I'd advise to activate your JR pass from the next morning only, thus leaving a full 7 days to use it.

6) only if you spend the first night in Tokyo, and even then I'm not sure it would be there before you.

Thanks for the reply. Would it be absurd if I just booked a hotel in Tokyo for 9 nights, check-in and go straight to Kyoto for a few days without having to sleep there at all? Meaning go back and forth on a daily basis. I'm really avoiding having to pay for 3 hotels in this short trip. I think I would be flying in before 5pm. I really wouldn't want to waste a day traveling from the Airport to hotel when we would have already lost a day on the airplane. If time wouldn't permit us to get from Narita to Kyoto in time to see anything for that day then I might as well room in Tokyo the entire trip.

If worst comes to worst I can also get a hotel in Kyoto for a few days while continuing to pay for my Tokyo room. Again, I'm trying to avoid the stress that I see most tourist go through when pressured to see everything in so little time.

I just double checked my schedule... With your time breakdown I would be in Kyoto at around 7pm. So from Kyoto to hotel it would probably be about 8-9pm worst case. I guess we would have enough time to get out for dinner at least. I'm not sure what a night out in Kyoto would be like being that we're city dwellers that are used to 3am chinese/mexican takeouts. THank you so much for this information. I am already in the process of making bookings now. I just need to know that I'm making the smart decisions.

The bike idea of riding a bike through unfamiliar territory frightens me. I haven't hopped on a bike for years and I have the fear of being a hit-and-run victim. I don't trust anyone on the road. :D My G-friend on the otherhand is Dutch so I'm sure she'd feel at home. :)

> "I just double checked my schedule... With your time breakdown I would be in Kyoto at around 7pm. "


Then go for it.

>"I'm not sure what a night out in Kyoto would be like being that we're city dwellers that are used to 3am chinese/mexican takeouts."

Then you'll have to adjust to 3am "combini" (convenience stores, open 24/24, like 7/11, Lawson, etc.) take out ;-) For other ideas about Kyoto nightlife, have a look at http://www.kyotoguide.com/index/index.html It gets updated on a monthly basis but you can have a general outline for May based on last year's event.

>"The bike idea of riding a bike through unfamiliar territory frightens me. I haven't hopped on a bike for years and I have the fear of being a hit-and-run victim. I don't trust anyone on the road. My G-friend on the otherhand is Dutch so I'm sure she'd feel at home."

Don't worry, bicycles ride on the sidewalks in Japan, and Kyoto is particularly bike-friendly.

This might sound crazy. Now I'm really considering rooming at either the Mansions @ Poppongi or Mansions @ Azabu Towers. I can't figure out which one is in a better location. Beign that I can get a 1 bedroom apt I figure I can stock up on food and take daily excursions to Kyoto via train. This is all in the fear that If I book a hotel for Kyoto then shoot to Tokyo for the remainder of the trip I really won't know it's a mistake until the end of the trip. What if I realized that I should have booked more nights in Kyoto instead of Tokyo or vice versa. So if I stay in a Tokyo apt the for the full 9 nights is it plausible that I can take the train to Kyoto for daily excursions every other day for the 10 day duration?

For instance:
Day 1: Tokyo.
Day 2: Tokyo to Kyoto via train and back to sleep in Tokyo that night.
Day 3: Tokyo.
Day 4: Tokyo to Kyoto via train & back to sleep in Tokyo that night.
Day 5: Nara via Train & back to sleep in Tokyo that night.
Day 6: Tokyo.
Day 7: similar to day 2 & day 4.
Day ..... Day 10: Tokyo to Narita (fly)

I'm just wondering if a 7-day JR pass for 2 would allow us to do all those daily trips. In case we really fall in love with Kyoto for the first time we could probably just stay there overnight at some hotel and return the next day instead of that same night. All this while paying for an Apt. at one of the Mansion hotels. Does this make since to anyone??

You are making this trip waaaaay too difficult! Here are my ideas:
Fly into Narita, take the train directly to kyoto. You should enjoy your stay there as there is lots to do ...the castle, temples galore, great arcades for shopping, and lots of opportunities for people watching and dining.

When done, take the train to Tokyo and enjoy more nghtlife and gadget shopping. If either city bores you during it's assigned period, take day trips elsewhere. Kyoto to Nara, Osaka, or Himeji...Tokyo to Nikko, Kamakura, or Hakone.

Hotels in Japan are very expensive, making double booking nuts. Travelling back and forth would also be crazy... after the first trip, spending 6 hours on the same train will be cruel and unusual punishment.

If you travel light, getting from Narita to Kyoto will be no problem. If you buy a lot in Kyoto, you can have your luggage sent to your hotel in Tokyo. Your hotel can easily arrange this for you.

In Kyoto, pick a hotel near the Gion district or beween Oike -dori and Shijo-dori streets as close to kawaramachi-dori (and the canal) as you can. this area has many interesting shops and department stores, bars, restaraunts, theatres, temples,and pacinko parlors within walking distance, and remains lively till late at night. You can walk to the Gion area or catch a bus to anywhere in town from the intersection of shijo-dori and kawaramachi-dori. The all day bus passes are sold in the underground arcade/rail station below Takashimaya Department store. To get here from the train station you can take a short cab or the private subway on the north side of the main Kyoto rail station. If we are not staying in a ryokan, we stay at the Kyoto Central Inn. It is right above the subway and across the street from Takashimaya. The lobby and hallways are drab, but if you get a japanese room, it will be clean and quiet with a private bath with furo. A year ago it was $135 for 2 of us (japanese style rooms rent by the person). We do not like to stay by the main station...it is more of a business area and is not as lively at night.

In Tokyo, you have been given some good sugesstions. We usually choose Ryokan Shigetsu, but you might want something in a more lively area with no curfews (Shinjuko or kanda areas are nice). I recommend you get a place near a subway or JR rail station. The JR rail in town works like the subway, but you can use your railpasses. MOst of the time you can manage to get places on JR lines and save your subway money. If you have no JR pass, you can get daily subway passes.

I highly recommend the guide book "Gateway to Japan" by Kinoshita. It has everything you need...maps, hotel recs, train, shopping and dining advice and it almost always accurate in its descriptions. You will thank me once you see it!

BigFeat - listen to lcuy!

Your thought of multiple trips to Kyoto is not a good idea.

She has very good advice also about the day trip options from either Kyoto or Tokyo. Also about what area to stay in as well as buying the all day bus pass in Kyoto.

Also, we loved Ryokan Shigetsu in Asakusa/Tokyo...but we are a family and didn't want any sleezy nightlife.

About the only variation I would suggest is to not try to make it to Kyoto from Narita your first night in. I would instead do something like spending the first two nights in Tokyo, then going to Kyoto for 5 nights and spending the last 3 nights in Tokyo, perhaps staying in a different part of town this time.

As to learning...well, I personally found reading up a little on the history of Japan to be of great value. Pick a novel set in Japan, such as Gaijin by James Clavel, and visit the Edo Museum in Tokyo. See a Kabuki play at the Kabukiza Theatre in Tokyo (rent the head sets)....

Then, when you visit the Shogun's palace, Nijo-jo in Kyoto, it will have much more meaning.

I agree with Lcuy and LeslieC. Traveling back and forth from Tokyo to Kyoto is a bad idea.

Are you only interested in staying in Western stlye hotels? You should try at least one night in a Ryokan. They're very traditional and a great experience. I've lived in Japan for over 3 years and am planning a trip back to visit friends at the end of March. I'm planning on staying at a ryokan in Narita the night before my return flight. I'll email you again and let you know what it is like.

May I recommend going to Himeji Castle as a day trip from Kyoto. It's well worth the day!

DUDE i am doing homework to!!! I am going to Kobe, Tokyo and Kyoto! I "have to stay there for 14 nights" we arent actually going there. You just reasearch about japan then plan a vacation there! IT IS SO MUCH FUN!

BigFeat, about your idea of travelling to Kyoto and back, yes it can be done and yes it would be absurd and crazy (as you put it).

If you stay in Tokyo the first night or two, then just leave some of your stuff at your Tokyo hotel and take the rest to Kyoto.

Upon further research and advice from the wonderful board members on Fodors here's my game plan at this point:

-Book a room at the Roppongi Mansions for the entire 9 nights. Stay in Tokyo for night 1.

-Travel to Kyoto on day 2 and book a hotel (Hotel Okura) for 2 nights.

-Travel to Nara on last day @ Kyoto.

-Back to Tokyo and visit Kamakura and maybe Nikko.

So most of the days will be spent in Tokyo. I thought of booking a 1-bedroom apt would allow me to relax a bit more. For instance, if it really starts to pour for any of these days I can just kick back and watch DVDs all day. I really don't think a small hotel room atmosphere would allow me that.

I really have reserves about staying at a Ryokan for this trip. I think the restrictions and etiquettes that I would be subjected to will be a stretch for me during this trip. On the other hand, I think I have the decipline to follow simple Ryokan etiquette as I've studied Aikido for 9 nears thus have some awareness of the Japanese culture. However, this trip hopefully will be the start of many trips we will take to Japan. We can enjoy Japan at a slower pace in the near future.

With all that said I will end up paying for 9 nights at the Mansions and while also paying for 2 nights at the Okura. I feel like I'm short changing myself by both paying for 2 hotels on only staying 3 days in Kyoto. Could Tokyo be really that less interesting that it deserves fewer days? What demographic could one say Tokyo and Kyoto is targetting? I have the feeling I'd be traveling from the ying to the yang here.

For the record, I meant to say that travelling from Tokyo to Kyoto for a day of sightseeing and then returning to Tokyo the same night would be crazy. Doing it a second time would be absurd.

And paying for a couple of nights in a Tokyo hotel and not using them is a shameful waste.

-Mrwunrfl

I totally agree. I have 3 months to think about this so I'm sure I'll make the right choice once it's said and done.

Good, I'm glad you were not offended. I take it that you are really concerned about taking your luggage on the train? The idea of booking 9 nights in Tokyo was simply to avoid hauling your luggage to Kyoto and back?

- Mrwunrfl

That was exactly my reason. We would be coming from a 13hr flight. There's an additional 3hrs from our arrival to Narita then to the hotel. Then having to travel to Kyoto the next morning for another 3hrs was overwhelming. That would have taken about 2 days (business hours) from our travel (traveling to Japan + Traveling within Japan). Plus the idea of staying in an apartment setting was comforting in knowing we could wake-up and cook our own breakfast.

You can just stay in Tokyo for the first 3 days (maybe first night at an airport hotel). Then go to Kyoto after you are over the jet lag. Back to Tokyo for the night before your flight home.

You have lots of options. Try contacting the JNTO (www.jnto.go.jp) and ask them for info about shipping your luggage.

Another option would be to get with a tour group. They can meet you at the airport and deal with your bags and shepherd you to Kyoto and back.

By the way.. What's the cheapest way to get from Tokyo to Kyoto? I just spoke to a gentleman that will be in Japan for 3-4 days next month and he considered going to Kyoto. I told him about 9000 yen on the bullet train, but I wasn't sure if that was a one-way or round trip fare. Moreover, he thought that there must be a way to get a reduced price on that ticket being that it's only for one day. JR's site really doesn't clarify what their single passage rates cost vs passes.

Japanese trains are fast, efficient and comfortable, and expensive. The 9000 yen price from Tokyo to Kyoto is one way, and seems like just the basic fare. There is the shinkansen supplement that will be about 5000 yen more. The Nozomi shinkanzen is the fastest and most expensive at a bit over 14,000 yen one way. They don't offer a discount if you return the same day. Generally, they don't offer a discount for shinkansen at all. If you plan on doing a lot of travel by JR lines, then before departing your home country you could buy a JR pass that would save you some money. In any case, seat reservations only cost 500 yen and are well worth it as non-reserved seats are often completely filled and you end up standing the whole way.

Other ways to get a slight discount once you are in Japan is to buy your tickets at a ticket discount shop. Service there is generally only in Japanese, and saving might amount to 1000 yen,,.not much.

Once in Japan, you can book packages of hotels and train tickets together from many travel agencies. Savings on these range from almost nothing to actually getting the hotel for free. There are loads of flyers in agency doorways and in the station for this sort of package.

Riding only local trains is considerably cheaper...and considerably slower. For 9000 yen, you can get the local train to Kyoto...it'll take you between 8 and 9 hours. The faster the train, the fewer the stops, the higher the price. There is also bus service between the big cities. JR bus from Shinjuku to Kyoto is around 8000 yen and leaves late night arriving early morning in Kyoto.

Well the shinkansen will haul you the 513.6 km from Tokyo to Kyoto in 140 minutes at a cost of about 13700 JPY. That's one way, info from hyperdia.com

The 7-day JR pass costs 28,300 JPY

Flying, even with a Visit Japan fare, would not be much cheaper, if at all, and would probably take longer. Riding the bus is cheaper. Maybe a limited express train.

Another thing that you might do is stay at an airport hotel on your arrival day and catch a flight from Narita to either KIX or ITM (the Osaka airports) the next day. See fly-ana.com or japanair.com for their specials for foreign tourists.

It seems like the 7 day JR pass excludes the Nozomi train which, of course, has the fastest travel time. That's very unfortunate. I'd imagine buying (2) 7-day JR passes at about 60K Yen + another 56K Yen for round trip tickets to Kyoto via Nozomi is excessive. I think I'll have to shell out the 116K Yen since we also plan on visiting Kamakura and Nara via the JR lines. Thanks for the input.

You're right, that's a Nozomi that does the trip in 140 minutes. The Hikari train that you can take with a JR Pass takes a whopping 153 minutes. Yes, it is so very unfortunate.

You certainly don't need 2 weeks worth. Arrive in Tokyo and stay put for the first 3 days...sightsee in Tokyo. Buying tickets for the subway and Yamanote lines in Tokyo won't cost you over a 1000 yen a day per person unless you really go all over. And in that case, buy a pass. http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/util/english/ and http://www.seejapan.co.uk/transport/rail/regional.html have good information and links about local transport.

Activate your 7 day pass on day 3, use it on the Hikari shinkansen to go to Kyoto. Stay in Kyoto for a few days. Go to Nara for a day from Kyoto. I also recommend a night in temple at Mt. Koya. Lovely. Go to Kamakura and back to Tokyo. All using the pass..lots of savings in terms of train fares.

Narita to Shinjuku/Tokyo station can be done pretty reasonably. Limousine buses are available for about 3000 each way per person to various hotels. Narita Express train is 3500 yen to the station, then maybe taxi or subway to your hotel. If you plan it right, you can use your JR pass to get back to the airport by train.

Thanks for that link.... Your point about making transportation arrangements while in Japan is quite familiar. I think most of my other trips have always turned out that way. We always find a local that's willing to help out and alert us to the best scenerios to get us from A to B.


-Mrwunrlf

By the way the only discerning info published about these trains on the links provided was that the Nozomi has zero stops whereas the other ones incrementally have more to several stops. The Hyperdia only mentions travel times for the Nozomi. So I wasn't aware that there next train down was only 23 minutes slower.

We also are planning our trip to Japan. We will stay in Tokyo for 4 days and then join a tour group for 10 days in Tokyo and Kyoto. We have another 10 days in Japan. We think we would like to spend it in the Alps area (takayama, MMatsumoto, etc.) But maybe this is not a good idea. It will be the first week in November. Will it be too cold in the Alps area? How do I make reservations in hotels, inns, kyokan (one night)? I would kike to use a Japanese travel agent, but cannot find one. The ones I spoke with in US only want to book standard group tours. Please, if you know travel agent in Japan who speaks English and has email, please share!! Thanks.

We were in Takayama this past October 18-19 and it wasn't too cold at all. I don't know how much worse it would be a few weeks later, but it shouldn't be too bad. As for reservations, we made the majority of our reservations by calling the hotels directly. There was usually someone there that spoke English well enough to take a reservations. We made reservations for several ryokan via www.japaneseguesthouses.com, which is a very good reservation service.

Thank you, jaydreb5. I feel much better now that I have read your reply. Please share more info our your time in Japan. How many days did you spend in the Alps? Other area/s you would recommend? We are going there from Kyoto, ending in Tokyo. Still cannot plan route through the Alps area. Maybe there is not a straight line route that works. I will review your other postings.

The only time we spent in the Alps was 2 days in Takayama which was very nice, so I can't really help with other destinations in the Alps. Otherwise, we spent our time in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Miyajima, with trips to Kamakura, Nara, Hakone, Hiroshima.

I did a rather detailed trip report from my trip in October 2003, which you should be able to find here with a quick search. I'm happy to answer any more questions.

Shirakawa-go is a lovely mountain town. It's a world heritage village, many houses with thatched roofs. It's very small...much smaller than Takayama. It is well worth staying the night in a minshuku in Shirakawa-go. You can book when you arrive in the town or beforehand through the town's tourist information center. The price is pretty much the same everywhere - about 8000 yen per person, with breakfast and dinner included. To make the most of this experience, choose a minshuku with an irori (open hearth cooking area) and grass roof (gassho zukuri).

http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm is a good place to start. Fodors guide lists some minshuku. There are many in the town.

Thank you for your responses. http://www.shirakawa-go.gr.jp/English/index-e.htm is an amazing site. I just spent an hour there and looked at barely a fraction. Yunoshimakan in Gero looked so beautiful it seemed worth going to Japan just for it. I also printed out Jaydreb's messages from his trip. Very helpful. We are planning to go to Shirakawa-go and Matsumoto, but cannot sequence these places. We can leave Kyoto Oct. 31 (or do another day trip from there) and leave Japan Nov. 9 at 11:00 am (we will probably overnight near Tokyo airport). I think we will send most of our luggage from Kyoto to our hotel at the airport (great service!). Suggestions welcomed on using these valuable days. We are 2 older couples (but not too old) who have done lots of travel, but we want to be more comfortable than when we traveled during college. This is much harder than planning a trip thru Italy or even Thailand.

I'd start out in Takayama, for at least 2 days. Here's a good link for accommodation...explore in English and see pictures too. I recommend a minshuku or a ryokan rather than a hotel or pension for the experience of it. When my parents visited us 4 years ago, they liked Takayama a lot, we stayed in a ryokan, had a terrific dinner there took a bath. My mom loved the bath! Oh...here's the link. http://hida-yado.net/

Shirakawago isn't far from Takayama. You can take a bus to Shirakawago. Japanese buses are quite comfortable. Personally, I lovce Shirakawago so much I'd spend 2 nights there too. It's not that there is tons to see and do, but it really feels like old Japan and just walking around is a pleasure. If you make a reservation the day before at the folk museum, you can experience weaving and making soba...well worth it in my opinion. ]

Matsumoto is reachable by train. Kamikochi, nearby, comes highly recommended by my friends, is worth at least a day. Tsumago and Magome are 2 old post towns that we've been meaning to visit for years...still haven't made it, but they still sound great.

We live in Kanazawa...the little Kyoto. With 10 days, you could spend 2 in Takayama, 2 in Shirakawago, 3-4 in Matsumoto/Kamikochi/post towns, 2 in Kanazawa. Kanazawa is s2 1/2 hours by train to Kyoto.

Kanazawa is a lovely small city. It has a gorgeous famous garden, 2 samurai districts, 2 geisha districts. It's a very different place than Kyoto, Osaka, Tokyo, Hiroshima. Kanazawa was never bombed, so the traditional winding, narrow roads remain intact, makiing for interesting walks. More info? Just ask!

Is there a website that might help break down the demographic of each district within a city? For instance (KimJapan), you broke down the demographics of some districts (samurai,geisha,etc) within Kanazawa. I haven't found a guide book that has broken them down in details like that. I'd appreciate some guide in this.

Well...I don't know of any books that specifically break down cities like I talked about Kanazawa, but I do think the Fodors book is pretty accurate though limited. When we travel withing Japan we use the Fodors Japan book a lot. We have tried others for Japan and not liked them as well. Also, since we've lived here for almost 9 years, we can use Japanese language sources, of which there are many that are excellent. Actually, most tourists in Japan are in fact Japanese, so it just stands to reason.

Tokyo is well described in the Fodors book, as is Kyoto. Having visitied both cities, as well as Nagoya, Osaka and Hiroshima a number of times each, I have to say that all the big cities largely look and feel the same. Of course, each has unique attractions...but I wouldn't spend an entire holiday devoted to the cities but would venture out of them to see some of Japan without neon lights.

I made a mistake about the guidebook we use...actually, it's Frommers, not Fodors.

Not to repeat myself, but 'Gateway to Japan' by June Kinoshita (Kodansha Press, available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc)is the book you need. It is truly an all in one resource, the bible to travelling & understanding many aspects of Japan.

It has sections on histury, culture, architecture, temples, religion, folk arts, art, drama, villas, types of towns, festivals, cuisine, ryokans and languages- just to name a few!

It also has lists of subjects and the best place to find them: the Best Castles, gardens, markets, shopping, best merchant towns, and many many more.

Even the smallest towns have all sorts of info on the sights, lodging, dining and a calendar of local events. Big cities are broken down into neighborhoods.

And no, I don't get royalties. I like to travel with no advance plans and this book allows you to do so and still find all the unknown treasures of Japan

A similar book printed by Kodansha is 'Japan Solo' which leans more to walking tours, and more specifics on how to get around, especially in out-of-the-way places.

.

I'm going to hit B&N today. I normally copy the pages that interest me in a guide book and slap them in a ring binder. I've done that for numerous places by simply printing the pages off of Frommer's online guides. I'll some books this time around. Thanks for the titles.

KimJapan, You are wonderful!!! Many,many thanks! We will follow your advice. I will start contacting places to stay, but I gather that I am rather early to be making reservations. Is this true? We need to stay in places with beds most of the time, but we certainly will go Japanese style for one or two nights. If you get a chance, please look at the website for www.yunoshimakan.co.jp/. It looks too beautiful to me. It would be the place we would select. Since it has 70 rooms maybe it has Western rooms and we would have our ryokan experience in Takayama as you suggest. We will include Kanazawa on our adventure. Thanks again. Now I have a way to begin my planning. I have ordered "Gateway".

Elainee - I'm so happy to help!

Yunoshimakan does look nice...gorgeous rooms, garden and big bath. It looks quite luxurious! When you stay at this sort of place, you check in the afternoon (always after2:00), are shown to your room and served tea. You change into a yukata - a casual kimono/bathrobe (be sure to layer it left over right rather than right over left, which is reserved for dead bodies), take a bath for a couple of hours, then return to your room, relax, have a drink, dinner will be served at a pre-arranged time and will last at least 2 hours (and be lovely for sure). Then you take a bath again, and while you are out of your room your room will be changed from eating to sleeping, futon set up and so on. You will sleep, then wake early for yet another bath, then breakfast, buy souvenirs in the shop, then check out by 10:00. Between check in and check out, virtually no one leaves the grounds...the onsen experience is soaking in a hot tub, scrubbing your skin so it glows red and smooth, drinking good sake, eating gourmet food, soaking again....it's for relaxation and refreshing, not sightseeing, you know what I mean?

This place is in Gero onsen, a famous onsen town. It's big, with 74 Japanese rooms, beds not available. It's a very high class place, formal and expensive...from the price list on their website, the lowest grade room is 18,000 yen per person with 2 meals (but doesn't include drinks) and for the fancy rooms you you will pay much more. By train, you will be 47 minutes from Takayama, just so you know. The village of Gero Onsen does have a gassho village museum that you might like. If you were hoping to be located right in Takayama, then this isn't the place...if you are hoping for the onsen experience, this is a great choice.

KimJapan, Thanks again! I thought we might do this ryokan first after leaving our tour in Kyoto. A good place to relax, unwind after being herded around for 10 days. Then on to Takayama or Kanazawa. I need to look more at the map to figure the sequence of these days. I am not only making arrangements for my husband and me but also for another couple. After I get my ideas clear I will show them to the other couple and then we can make final arrangements. Meanwhile I will email Yunoshimakan and see if we can stay there. I have read that some of the more formal places do not like taking foreigners (too much trouble). Do you think we will be unhappy if we take one of the less expensive rooms? I am excited about our trip!!