Planning for Japan - comments please
 

Here's my first pass at an itinerary (listing overnights) for the Japan leg of my RTW. Some background info: I'm early 60s, solo female. I'm not really into big cities, neon, nightlife or shopping - although I love markets. I also love mountains, waterfalls and rocky coastline, and I'm interested in architecture, religion and especially food. I prefer crafts - glass, textiles, ceramics, jewelry - to fine arts. (And I'm almost tone deaf - absolutely no karaoke!)

Mon Sep 20 - Arrive Narita at 14:35, from North America
Tue Sep 21 - Tokyo - Tsukiji fish market (if open), possibly Sumo tournament
Wed Sep 22 - Tokyo - day trip to Hakone

Note - I was thinking of staying in Asakusa, but maybe this would work better if I stayed nearer the fish market?

Thu Sep 23 - Kyoto
Fri Sep 24 - Kyoto - day trip to Nara
Sat Sep 25 - Kyoto
Sun Sep 26 - Kyoto
Mon Sep 27 - Koya-san
Tue Sep 28 - Tokushima

Note - Plan A was to fly to Kagoshima and work my way north, but I decided that would leave too little time for places I wanted to see on Honshu. I was thinking of taking the bus from Osaka to Tokushima so I would travel on the bridge over Awaji island, but have found a ferry from Wakayama which likely makes more sense.

Wed Sep 29 - Tokushima - visit the Naruto Straits
Thu Sep 30 - Takamatsu - visit Kotohira
Fri Oct 1 - Matsue

Note - I'd like to spend a day in Tsuwano, but that really seems out of the way

Sat Oct 2 - Matsue - visit Izumo
Sun Oct 3 - Kanazawa - this is a long travel day by train
Mon Oct 4 - Kanazawa
Tue Oct 5 - Kanazawa
Wed Oct 6 - Takayama
Thu Oct 7 - Matsumoto

Note - could do Takayama and Matsumoto the other way round. Or is Matsumoto feasible as a day trip from Takayama? Could drop Takamatsu, or possibly the day trip to Nikko or Kamakura, or even a day in Kyoto for another day in this area. I'd like to visit Shirakawa-go as well, but it looks difficult with public transport.

Fri Oct 8 - Tokyo
Sat Oct 9 - Tokyo - day trip to Nikko or Kamakura
Sun Oct 10 - fly out of Haneda at 8:20 am

I'll mostly be staying in business hotels or minshukus, but I was thinking of one night in a ryokan (not more than $200). Suggestions for accommodation welcome!

I'd also like to fit in a tea ceremony, and a look at Kabuki. Bunraku would be cool, but I think this is the wrong time? Also the wrong time for geisha/maiko performances? I'm thinking of seeing if I can get a Goodwill Guide in Kyoto and Kanazawa.

HT - I was thinking of a 14 day JR pass that would cover all but one long distance train - would something else work better?

Whew!
My initial thoughts:
If you want to see the Sumo I think you need tickets ahead. Tourist office/your hotel can probably see to this.

Hakone is doable as a day from Tokyo but will need an early start. Were you planning on using your JRPass and getting the shink to Odawara? It will speed things up but isn't essential.

Kyoto accomodation: I used to stay in Nashinoki. My daughter recently tried Gojo Inn (the guesthouse, not the Comfort Inn monstrosity)

How are you getting from Takamatsu to Matsue? Long way.
The train along the Nihon Kai from Matsue to Kanazawa will be very nice.

In Kyoto at the tourist office they will be able to give you all kinds of info on tea ceremony, bunraku, kabuki etc. It used to be a matter of turn up and go. If you're stuck I have a very good friend there who will be pleased to show you around. She's very enthusiastic. Let me know if you want me to contact her.

This is becoming a vicarious experience for me!

I've never really understood the appeal of the Tsukiji fish market or why so many tourists want to go there. I would not list Tsukiji in my top 100 favorite places in Tokyo, and I don't know too many people who have visited Japan (anyone, actually) who have been to Tsukiji and want to go back. The little sushi shops are nice, though. I'd much rather spend a day wandering around some interesting neighborhoods (for me, many of those are in the northeast part of the city), making sure to spend some time in a few of the gardens in town. Check out http://www.tokyo-park.or.jp/english/index.html for some tips on gardens.

You would definitely get your moneey's worth from a 14 day pass, and that's not counting the great convenience of just getting on whichever train you choose with just s flash of your pass at the gate. No need to mess around with machines and cash each time you travel.

I'm just back myself from a trip as a a solo female on a budget so am happy to help with any queires. I mostly stayed at Toyoko Inns and find them perfectly OK. It might be a while until I get around to a trip report but here's a link to the blog I keep for family and friends - more my personal impressions than travel advise. In reverse chronological order.

http://www.rockinryoko.blogspot.com/


Your itinerary seems good to me, busy but that's the way I travel too. Matsue is on my list for next time< will be interested to follow your planning for that.

Sounds like a great trip!

> I'd also like to fit in a tea ceremony

When I was there a few years ago, one could enjoy a formal tea ceremony at Nomura-ke in Kanazawa for a small fee in addition to admission. If you enjoy gardens, it is well worth stopping at this one - it's small, but quite lovely and the tea service was quite memorable.

> Bunraku would be cool

You might check out Gion Corner in Kyoto. They have an admittedly touristy performance in the evening that includes a sample of 7 or so Japanese performing arts. The bunraku segment was the longest, lasting about 20 minutes.

> Could drop ... a day in Kyoto ...

I'd think twice about shortening your time in Kyoto. In fact, if you could find a way to add a day there, I think you would find more than enough to enjoy.

Matsumoto is feasible from Takayama and reverse, but Matsumoto is where the train to Shinjuku Station departs from. You may not need two nights in the area - traipse about Takayama on your arrival day and visit Matsumoto-jo on your departure day. If you cut a day from Kanazawa or Matsumoto/Takayama, you'll be able to fit all your major train trips onto the JR pass.

There is no option better than the JR pass for what you're doing.

Why drop a day in Kyoto? You're already set up to regret spending too little time there.

Go to Nikko.

<b>rizzuto</b> - I take your point - I certainly don't expect to visit Tsukiji fish market more than once, and I plan to eat as well as look. However, I do like markets, and this sounds like a monster market, plus it also seems like a productive use of jet lag.

<b>kja</b> - thanks for the suggestions. I'm sure I'll prefer Kyoto to Tokyo, but I am wondering about seeing too many temples (I've already seen a lot elsewhere in Asia).

<b>BigRuss </b> - I'm actually thinking about adding a day for the Japan alps... But I appreciate the info about the train from Matsumoto. Now I'm thinking of spending that night in a ryokan near Kamikochi instead, and seeing Matsumoto on the way back to Tokyo. Nikko rather than Kamakura?

<b>eigasuki</b> - thanks for the link. Glad to hear that you liked the Toyoko Inns. I know this is busy, but when I planned a slow trip last year I discovered that I just kept finding more things to do once I got there!

<b>gertie</b> - I suspect I'll still have some jet lag the day I go to Hakone so getting up early maybe won't be too painful. I was planning to activate the pass when I left Kyoto - isn't there some kind of day pass for touring round Hakone?

Takamatsu to Matsue isn't so bad - change at Okayama, under four hours - it's Matsue to Kanagawa that's a pain - seems I have to go via Kyoto or Osaka - and some of the routes hyperdia is giving me go back to Okayama. I'm even tempted to look into flights, but I'm sure there's nothing direct.

An enthusiastic friend in Kyoto sounds wonderful! An introduction would be very welcome, thanks

The Hakone free pass will get you transport around Hakone and even include transport from Tokyo if you so choose. Will also get you discounts on most venues within the Hakone region. See here for details:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_008.html

staying near Tsukiji at one of these
http://www.toyoko-inn.com/e_hotel/00095/index.html
might enable you to walk or take a short taxi to be there in time for the auction

I like your schedule and have some suggestions but no time right now at work so will add some later.

Aloha!

<b>hawaiiantraveler</b> - thanks for the links. Yes, that pass looks good, even though I'll only need one day.

Glad to hear you like the itinerary! As usual, it's as much about where to leave out as where to include. I was sorry to leave Shikoku out, but maybe another trip with Shikoku and the the Okinawa area....

There used to be a little blue JR train that trundled along the Nihon Kai. Very slow but lovely views. I wonder if they've axed it?
I'll get back to you on the friend in Kyoto when I've contacted her.

I've not been to Kamakura because we chose Nikko instead and I have no regrets given its status and importance and the fact that it is the shrine to one of the two most important leaders of Japan in the last 500 years (Tokugawa Ieyasu, the other is Emperor Meiji).

Note that Tobu railways operates a train to Nikko area that is less expensive than the JR trains and the Tobu deal will include admission to the shrines and temples (except one, which has an additional small admission). Google Tobu Spacia.

Based on how you currently have the trip set up, I'd also activate the JR pass the day you leave Tokyo (seems like 9-23) and foot the bill for the Matsumoto-Shinjuku leg outside the JR pass. It's less expensive to go Matsumoto-Shinjuku than Tokyo to Kyoto unless you cheap out and take a non-express train (that would take 6 hours from Matsumoto for a 2.5 hour limited express ride). Tickets not covered by a JR pass are priced by distance, and Kyoto is further from Tokyo than Matsumoto. The train rides are the same length because Tokyo-Kyoto is on a shinkansen.

I gave my suggestion above about cutting a day from the Alps because you could then get all your major intercity hops on a JR pass if you start the pass on 9-23 and end on 10-6.

And get some Royce' (the ' is not a typo) chocolates before you leave. Check out Haneda's website to see if Royce' has a shop there. It does at Narita.

Looks like my little blue train is as out-of-date as my Japan travels. I couldn't even find a JR bus to replace it but there must be something along that coast. I'll see if I can find out some insider information.

I have never been to Nikko but am a great fan of Kamakura. Lots of temples and shrines of all shapes and sizes. Also have a contact there if you would like someone to show you around.

Yes, private railways tend to be less expensive than the JR but they only operate in high-demand areas.

This is the info on my little blue train. Doesn't look good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San%27in_Main_Line

Having fiddled around for a long time, you probably could, in theory, travel all the way along the coast from Matsue to Kanazawa, changing at Ayabe, Maizuru (this bit is the Obama Line, who could resist it?) and Tsuruga
In practice it will be quicker to route via Kyoto. I guess you already knew that.

<b>gertie</b> - Sorry about your little blue train... Well, there's a Limited Express that does Matsue to Tottori in an hour and a half, or a "San-In" line that requires a change at Yonaga and takes a lot longer, but I think both take the same route along the coast. Then hyperdia wants me to go via Kyoto or Osaka. If I tell it to take me to Obama (cool!) it takes five changes and nearly five hours, plus at least one change and another three hours to get to Kanazawa. Although I'm a big fan of railroads, I think I'll settle for the run along the coast to Tottori!

<b>BigRuss</b> Good point about when to activate the pass. I'm willing to buy one day's worth of travel in exchange for an extra day in the Japanese alps, but the cheaper the better! Thanks for the chocolate tip, but I seldom eat it. Maybe as presents for my next country?

<b>Nikko vs Kamakura</b> - I'm pretty agnostic on this one, since obviously I haven't been to either. I rather liked the idea of Tokei-ji as a refuge for women, but I'm also interested in Tokugawa Ieyasu, having enjoyed James Clavell's books.

> Nikko vs Kamakura

I'm glad I saw both, but generally thought Nikko provided a greater contrast to the other temples I had seen in Japan than Kamakura. In addition, if you go to Nikko, you might be able to fit in a brief visit to Kegon-no-taki, which you might enjoy given that you like waterfalls. It's not only an impressive sight, but also fairly unusual, in that the surrounding rock is fractured basalt.

I found Tokei-ji interesting, but I don't think I would have gone out of my way to see it.

ok lets see....
You can activate your <b>7</b> day JR pass on Oct 1 or 9/30 and save a little.
From Kyoto to Wakayama thru Koyasan and all points in between try the <b>2 day Kansai Thru Pass</b> at 3800 yen
May even be good on the Nankai Ferry from Wakayama to Tokushima but not sure....
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2357_005.html
You are going to bus around Shikoku?

Ohhh the Naruto Straits and Matsue! Two places on my long and ever growing list of places I want to see. Glad you will be there first to tell me about it,lol.

For Bunraku you can try checking the National Bunraku Theater in Osaka(the city no one here seems to like)while you are in Kyoto. Osaka really offers a lot in sightseeing,forms of art, shopping and entertainment just on a more modern level than Kyoto.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4003.html

Bus service from Kanazawa thru S Go is frequent but you probably already have this:
http://www.nouhibus.co.jp/english/index.html

I love Matsumoto especially the area around Mastumoto-jo. Some of the shops there have been in existence since the early days of the castle,literally centuries.

I am also on the Nikko band wagon just be ready for the hills and stairs and lots of them starting from the train station on. Don't miss the bus ride up to Lake Chuzenji and the waterfall, very scenic drive and your koyo timing in this area may be good because of the elevation.

When you get back to Tokyo try checking into staying here or in this area to more easily access your exit to Haneda. Also a very interesting neighborhood.
http://www.toyoko-inn.com/e_hotel/00029/index.html

You may already know this but anytime a Japanese hotel has the Japanese word "eki" (train station)next to it that is where the location would be at that train station.
"Ekimae" means if front of the train station.


Aloha!

Looks like I'll have to save Asakusa for next time, lol. Easy exit to Haneda sounds good, though, but do I need to worry about how early the trains start running on a Sunday? BTW, some rooms at that Toyoko Inn are more expensive because they have "VOD" - is that Video on Demand?? I will commit "eki" and "ekimae" to memory.

Looks like the vote is for Nikko. The waterfall is a clincher.

Still not sure about the passes - I'll have to do some math. The 7 day pass won't get me back to Tokyo, but the 14 day one wouldn't either. I was going to take the train from Tokushima to Takamatsu. Thanks for the bus link.

I'm thinking of splurging for a ryokan in the Kamikochi area - good idea?

Thanks so much for the input! Now I've got this sorted, I'm going to do some work on the South Korea leg to see if I want to drop a day there to fit in the festival in Takayama.

The Shinagawa Toyoko Inn is one of those literally "eki-mae". They aren't always. Ekimae means the district around the station. The hotel can be the proverbial five minute walk away. In Nagasaki, The Toyoki Inn Eki Mae is a tram stop away, though you can walk it. Don't forget, that five minute walk is from the entry (if you find the right one!) and not from the part of the platform where you alight the train. That can be a LONG walk with luggage.

This time I tried save money with a 7 day pass instead of the 14 day pass. My travel in the first 7 days nearly covered the 14 day pass but in the second week I was in Kansai. Doing the sums I did save a few dollars but many times I missed the convenience of the pass.

Re Kamakura v Nikko, Kamakura's nice but I think you get more bang for your buck at Nikko.

"That can be a LONG walk with luggage." - which raises the question - do train stations in Japan have luggage carts? (I travel with a backpack, not wheels.)

If Kanazawa is still on your itinerary, you can take in a Noh performance (a written translation in English is provided), get dressed up in traditional kimono at a kimono fabric factory, and walk around the Kenrokuen gardens where you can experience tea ceremony. There are also a ninja house museum and a historical preservation section of town with shops. Not as congested and touristy as other places.

do train stations in Japan have luggage carts?

No, but most have elevators and/or escalators. You can view maps and layouts of the stations online (at the various JR sites) and it's really useful to have printout for the big ones and to know which platforms, exits etc you'll need before you get there. Having said that, the signage is excellent and usually romanised, if not in English. Plenty of helpful staff about, too.

<b>offlady</b> - I definitely still plan to visit Kanazawa - partly because of the gardens and the historic section. Not sure about the Noh, it sounds a bit formal and difficult - maybe a good thing to do with a Goodwill guide? But I'm very glad to hear about the kimono option!

<b>eigasuki</b> - thanks for the tip about the maps - I love maps! I travel with a tiny compass, which has been useful in the past for getting oriented when coming up from metro stations - I suspect I may need it INSIDE Japanese stations!

speaking of maps, there are many located inside the subways and train stations. Just know those maps are not always set with north on the top. In fact I usually find that east is on the top but I have also seen the south end on top of the map with no N and arrow anywhere. It is good that you travel with a compass. Stand in front of the map with your compass(iphone) out is what I do.

Never seen a luggage cart, only at the airports.

A JR Pass is basically useless when traveling inside the Kansai region as you are doing ie subways, trains buses, etc. That is why I suggested the Kansai Thru Pass. Using it for transport from Kyoto to Koyasan and all throughout Kansai through whatever means of transport you need is worth it imho. With the JR Pass your options are limited and you have to hassle with paying to get tickets to get on the private lines you will be traveling on.

Aloha!

There is a famous generations-old kimono shop in Kanazawa that specializes in hand-painted silk fabrics. You can get dressed in a kimono of your choice and they will take a photo which they will put on a postcard and give you when you leave. Other famous products in Kanazawa are ice cream (several dairies in the area), and gold.

Just looking at this again and it makes more sense to me to stay overnight in Hakone on the 22nd rather than incur the added expense of a trip back to Tokyo. It would be cheaper to get to Kyoto from Odawara than from Tokyo the next morning if you are paying for a ticket. You would also have more time in Hakone for sightseeing and wouldn't be too pressed for time.

Kamikochi is a good idea and place for a ryokan visit. Did you have one in mind? I have never been to Kamikochi but have passed by the area and the mountains do look lovely.

Aloha!

re: Nikko vs. Kamakura, I was debating the same for my upcoming trip. I've heard Kamakura is NOT a must if you are going to Nara (which you are), because there are big buddhas in both places. I plan to go to Nikko (and Nara) and not Kamakura.

HT - my first thought was to stay overnight in Hakone, but when I discovered it was feasible to do a day trip I was thinking of limiting one-nighters. Will reconsider.

Based on my out-of-date LP I was thinking of the Yumoto Choza in Fukuchi Onsen. More research required!

unitoro - I'm usually left cold by very big Buddhas (although the one in Leshan surprised me), I originally thought Kamakura might be less busy than Nikko.

check out the Hirayu-no-mori site too, looks good with a variety of baths

http://www.onsenexpress.com/site/dis...onsenregion=10

Well, that's certainly a whole lot cheaper! (Although this was going to be my splurge night, if I overnight near Hakone maybe that should be.) Looks to be a choice between (said to be) good food, and a selection of outdoor onsen.

Nikko and Kamakura are two different experiences. Yes, Nikko is much more congested and very busy and crowded. It is pretty much a full day excursion by tour bus together with Kegon Falls, but very beautiful mountain area. Kamakura is much less crowded and takes less time. It is within walking distance from the train station. It will give you time to browse around town or visit other temples in the area. Kamakura also has very beautiful nature scenery, although I don't know how accessible the other temples are witihout a car or taxi.

Since you had mentioned business hotels earlier(and since I am on this computer with most of my Japan links) here are some sites of trusted and clean business hotels chains in Japan if you haven't seen already. Most are located in the areas you are traveling.

We have stayed in the Toyoko Inns,Tokyu Properties, Sunroute and JR properties and all very clean and comfortable although small.

http://www.toyoko-inn.com/eng/

http://www.wh-rsv.com/english/index.html

http://www.sunroute.jp/SunrouteTopHLE.html

http://www.tokyuhotelsjapan.com/en/index.html

http://www.jrhotelgroup.com/eng/

http://www.kid97.co.jp/~jeh-group/jeh-group.html

http://www.fujiyahotel.co.jp/en/index.html

http://www.heartonhotel.com/

Aloha!

Thanks so much, HT! I'm not actually booking for Japan yet - I thought I'd sort out South Korea first, but will save the links. Do you think I'm likely to have a problem for Sep-Oct?

September 20 and 23 are public holidays. I once went to Kamakura on a public holiday and it was a disaster. Best to stay in town on those days. Incidentally, there's a lot more in Kamakura than just the big buddha (which is itself a notable work of art): Hokokuji, Meigetsuin, Kenchoji, and many more.

By the same token, there's a lot more in Nara than its own big buddha: the spectacular statues in the Sangatsudo and in Shin Yakushiji (shin means new--it was built in 850), and the really ancient Horyuji and Toshodaiji. The treasure from Horyuji is in a newish museum in Ueno Park (Tokyo).

I haven't yet been to Nikko but Kamakura was my full day trip from Tokyo during my first trip to Japan in 2004. I took the train to Kamakura, then the Enoden train to see the Daibutsu, walked around, then trained back to Kamakura - did some more temples and shrines, ended up walking up toward Kita Kamakura where it was already 4 pm and some shrines were already closed.....at the time I had a very detailed map of the locations of the shrines and temples.....

Oh yes, that public holiday on the 23rd was another reason I was thinking of making Hakone a day trip on the 22nd.

I think I'll wait until I get there to decide Nikko or Kamakura - it will be my last day.

Good point about the holiday. My first trip to Nikko was on a busy holiday, and traffic crawled for 4 hours to reach Nikko forcing us to skip Kegon Falls. When we got back to the city limits, we literally had to run to catch the last train into Tokyo. Altogether we spent 8 long hours on the tour bus...with the Australian soccer team which was entertainment in itself. On another trip, we drove by car with friends and had no problems with traffic and was able to enjoy the sights at a leisurely pace.

After you reading your posts, I see that you have given up on Kagoshima/Kyushu - understandable but I have to say, I found Kyushu to be the best bang for your buck in Japan. I found it less touristed than Honshu and even Hokkaido. I do not know what the weather is like in the fall, though.

if you are still considering those places, I would suggest Furusato Kanko on the island of Sakurajima (short ferry ride from Kagoshima) for your splurge - the food was unbelievable and the price of the ryokan very reasonable (in 2008, it was around 160 pp). If you are into food and markets you might enjoy yourself with the Fukuoka street food. The Tsubame shinkansen makes travel around Kyushu very fast and reasonable ( we actually took a now-extinct night train from Tokyo to Kumamoto - from there, kagoshima is a short train ride, then worked our way to Kumamoto (great castle, great food right by the train station, cheap hotels), and then through Aso and Kurokawa onsen (another splendid onsen with affordable ryokan), then to Fukuoka then Hiroshima/Miyajima and Himeji before Kyoto.

We have been to Japan twice and to avoid getting templed out and frustrated by having a lot of people around us, we have avoided some of the most popular sights - Hakone, Nikko, Kamakura, Nara, etc., so I have no comments about those. I do suggest Kyushu - much more relaxed and easygoing than some other places in Japan.

Just my two cents.

If you get a fourteen-day pass, you could spend your first few days getting adjusted in Tokyo, zoom down to Fukuoka some morning (taking advantage of your jetlag), head to Kagoshima (I think it is only 3-4 hr journey on a very comfortable train), then head back to the mainlaind via Kumamoto (only need one day here but if you do, check out the AWESOME little pub/bistro/izakaya to your right as soon as you leave the train station).

Then, you head out to Miyajima, try and stay the night (we stayed at a teeny tiny little minshuku/hostel type place - Mizuha-so, plus you can do fun day hikes), then maybe head towards Himeji in the morning, see the castle (I heard it might be renovations time now). if you get to Himeji around noon, you can check your bag in a locker, then the road to the castle is a straight 15 minutes walk from the station - on the way to the castle, on the left hand side of that road, there is a famous little handrolled udon noodle shop, check out the castle, and jump back on the train to Kyoto, hang out there for a few days, then head back to Tokyo.

This is pretty much what we did (except we got that great night train), and we LOVED it. Just some ideas, FWIW

Thanks for the input, usernameistaken - that was my first plan. However, I'm even keener on spending some time around Takayama, Matsumoto and Kanazawa, and I couldn't fit that in with enough time to do Kyushu justice. So I decided to substitute a corner of Shikoku for Kyushu on this trip - it sounds like it's off the main tourist trail, too. (My understanding is that Himeji is now being renovated - I'm substituting castles at Matsue and Matsmoto.)

My first plan for Japan, a couple of years back, included Kyushu on the way to Okinawa, and if I like Japan as much as I expect, I'd do that on my next visit.

I agree that quality trumps quantity! Have to remind myself!