usernameistaken - yes, I spend more planning time deciding what to leave out than I do deciding what to put in! Sad...

You might find these activities in Kyoto interesting. http://www.inuishikki.com/makie-english.htm
http://www.roketsu.com/
http://www.shibori.jp/english.htm

And for Kanazawa

http://wikitravel.org/en/Kanazawa is a quite good guide, pretty complete. Restaurant recommendations are good.

http://www.hot-ishikawa.jp/f-lang/english/

http://www.kanazawa-tourism.com/ is very good for finding hands on experiences like gold leaf and kaga yuzen...I would imagine that everyone would enjoy making something for a souvenir.

http://www.ochaya-shima.com/english/index.html in Higaghichaya is a really nice place to visit, and they are friendly. Nearby is a gold leaf place where you can make something with gold leaf if you like.

I'll say it again, we missed you KimJapan!!!

Aloha!

I don't know about the other castles, but when we visited Matsumoto Castle, we were able to go inside and climb up a one or two flight of stairs. My dad who wasn't in the best of physical shape at the time declined and stayed at the bottom, which is just as well. The stairs can be challenging for some.

Thank you, KimJapan - very glad to see you here!

Now that HT has given me the idea of skipping Tokyo at the front end of the itinerary, I'm wondering about the possibility of going straight to Kyoto from Narita (I can't change the routing because of the rules for the award tickets). My flight is scheduled into Narita at 2:35 pm. Or I suppose I could just stay in Narita? Any comments?

thursdays,

Certainly no reason you couldn't head directly to Kyoto. If you're at all like many people I know (incl myself), you'll have plenty of adrenaline and energy when you get to Narita, so some extra traveling won't hurt.

You can get to Kyoto either by flying or by train -- you'd get to Kyoto around 7.30 or 8.

It's another 3+ hours added onto an already long commuting day. The 3 hours will be on the shinkansen though so you will be comfortable at least. If arriving in NRT at 2:30 figure customs and baggage,convert pass or buy NEX tickets,1 hour if lucky, catch NEX into Tokyo/Shinagawa 90 minutes, then catch the shinkansen to Kyoto another 3 1/2hrs so arrival in Kyoto station after 8:30 pm at best.

I would make my way into Shinagawa and stay there the night. Good neighborhood near the station with lots of restaurants and shops, then hop to Kyoto in the morning on the shinkansen and sit on the right hand side of the train for that early morning view of Mt Fuji just after Odawara if you are lucky.

Aloha!

If you like waterfalls and nature, my recommendations are for Nikko over Kamakura and as much time in Takayama as possible. I barely scratched the surface of the Japan Alps on my trip with a bike ride up to some waterfalls, but I loved every second of it, and the city of Takayama is nice too, so you don't want to have to pick between the mountains and the downtown! :(

I liked Nikko and Kamakura, but Nikko had both shrines and nature - Tokugawa Ieyasu's grave is surrounded by lovely dark tall trees and feels isolated and quiet even when there are hundreds and hundreds of tourists crowded around. Also, it's a bit tricky with limited bus rides, but we had a full day in Nikko, so we went up to the Chuzenji/Yumoto area, used one of the hot springs, and saw some lovely nature and a few waterfalls. The road leading up there is famous as one of the windiest roads in the world, and when you get to the top there is a boardwalk over some highlands, a lot of lovely forest, and several waterfalls. When we went there the weather was so foggy that we couldn't see Kegon-no-taki even though it was right in front of us and we could hear it clearly! Sad because I've seen photos and it's breathtaking. Still, there are other waterfalls like Ryuzu falls, and when we went higher up (closer to Yumoto), the weather was sunny and amazing.

Contrary to what Rizzuto said, I loved Tsukiji. Loved it! One of the highlights of my trip. Getting up at 4 am and seeing the city wake up, watching the workings of this dynamic little world, dodging various little motorized fish-carrying vehicles whose drivers seemed intent on scoring points by hitting the tourist, watching the tuna auction, and then following it by having some of the best sushi (mostly sashimi actually) of my life was a unique and memorable experience.

Regarding staying at a Ryokan: absolutely do it. One of the best experiences of my life was splurging at Hiiragiya in Kyoto (about $500/night including kaiseki dinner and breakfast, but they do have some less expensive rooms).

As for shortening days in Kyoto, do not do it. As someone who often is eager to leave a place after two or three days, feeling like I have seen it all and done it all, it pained me to leave Kyoto after four days. I cannot wait to go back.

Thanks for all the new input. I don't think I'm up to the trek to Kyoto right after the flight from the US - even in business class there's a good chance I won't sleep.

I'll probably also have jet lag, so seeing the fish market my first morning still seems like a good idea - but I'm now thinking of leaving for Kyoto right afterwards.

Another possibility would be to drop Hakone altogether in favor of another day at Takayama or Matsumoto - opinions on that?

People who likes arty stuff and who enjoy staying in places that are remarkable because of their architecture might consider Benesse House on the island of Naoshima, between Hiroshima and Kyoto. (http://www.naoshima-is.co.jp/?index#/house)

I've never stayed/been there (though I hope to), but it's said to be a one-of-a-kind place, sort of an art installation that incorporates a hotel.

I've stayed at some places where the architecture or environment of the accommodations were as memborable as the place that I'd visited -- Shompole, Sayan (Ubud), Hotal Aria (Prague) -- and I've always thought those places were worth at least a side trip to get there. Benesse House sounds like it might be one of those places -- has anyone been there?

Late to this thread, but since I'm similar in my travel patterns, backgrounds, and tastes I mAy have some good info to share. Plus I'm planning my third trip to Japan this November.

Some random items...

Tsukiji: I've been twice and will likely return in November. You don't reallyhave to go at the crack of dawn.

Onsen: Did I miss a mention of onsen/ sento? Unless you've got a very serious aversion to the idea you shouldn't miss this experience, and as it turns out you can have the experience in lots of different settings, not just ryokan. There's a chain of budget hotels called Dormy Inn that pretty much all have them. Open air versions particularly great.

Kanazawa: great market there, and the park is lovely. I used a Goodwill Guide and she did a great job of arranging my visit according to my interests. I'll look back at my notes to see where we went. I stayed at the Dormy Inn that's very close to the train station. It's a new property that features an onsen on the top floor: partly open air (to the sky, and it was snowing, very pleasant. Amazinglygood buffet breakfast as well.

Shirakawa-go: not at all difficult to access by bus from Kanazawa (purchase tickets the day before at office in front of train station. Stay overnight at a minshuku and then catch the same bus the next AM that will take you on to Takayama. You'll arrive in Takayama in time for lunch.

> Did I miss a mention of onsen/ sento?

Onsen and sento are not exactly the same thing. Perhaps you rather mean onsen.
Onsen = hot spring usually in mountain areas.
Sento = traditional (not today's modern spa type) public bath house in town. Sen = money, coin and to = bath (hot water). There are less and less sento because most houses and flats have private bath.

Posted toon early.

> Onsen and sento are not exactly the same thing
In other words, hotels can have onsen but cannot have sento.

I'm familiar with the distinction between onsen and sento, and in fact that's why I used both terms, though I was actually getting at the distinction between natural hot springs vs heated water. And given the recent re-defining of what constitutes natural hot springs it all gets a bit confusing.

In any case both sento and onsen experiences might be of interest to the OP.

Oh, and a rotenburo (outside onsen, often mixed gender) would be particularly nice for the OP, particularly one with a waterfall into it, or with a view onto a waterfall. These may belong to a ryokan, in which case they may be reserved for ryokan guests or be available for day use, or they may be in a park or administered by a municipality.

OP is still here, but has been distracted by a weekend in Washington (see http://tinyurl.com/2a4kskx ) and planning for a week in Canada in July.

OP is absolutely keen on onsens, and on one splurge night in a ryoken with same, probably in Kamikochi.

<b>rizzuto</b> - thanks for the Benesse House suggestion. Unfortunately, when it comes to modern art I have the visual equivalent of tone deafness, and I've given up fighting it.

<b>Therese</b> - thanks for the info. I was thinking of visiting Shirakawa-go on the way to an overnight at Takayama - is it your experience that's not possible? I try to limit one-nighters. I'll certainly look into the Dormy Inns, especially the one in Kanazawa!

I visited Shirakawa-go in January and stayed overnight at Shimizu. I've just started a trip report here that will have some more detail about the minshuku itself. If you visit Shirakawa-go I'd stay overnight and thereby miss the tourist hordes that are there during the day. Buses are timed in such a way that you can arrive as they are leaving and depart as they are arriving. Again, I've got more detail in my trip report. I got to see the sort of snowfall that earns it the name Snow Country.

A day visit is definitely do-able, but it would be just as crowded as any other popular site in Japan. Imagine Venice on Saturday afternoon.

> I'm familiar with the distinction between onsen and sento

If you know the difference, that's fine. I just thought to mention sento is not to recommend to everybody. But I would understand if some want to experience it. For me onsen is a place with "bandai" where you pay. Maybe I have an idea for onsen of old style.

> Maybe I have an idea for onsen of old style.

Ooops, I mixed it up. Should have said "sento" of old style.

Definitely agree that somebody who was expecting an onsen (especially one with amazing views and fancy toiletries) and instead happened upon an old school sento would be likely be dismayed. On the other hand, if one really likes old school, then it doesn't come any more old school than a sento in a neighborood where houses are so old that they lack bath tubs.

Did you consider visiting Hagi (pottery)?

Izumo Taisha is a wonderful place to visit. I recommend that you spend a whole day just in Matsue and don't just hit the excellent castle.

You could fly from Tokyo to Izumo or to Yonago (and bus to Matsue).

Yes, I was planning to visit Izumo Taisha, I'm spending two nights in Matsue. Unfortunately, Hagi is too far south for this trip.

I love trains, and will have a JR pass - although I did look at the possibility of flying from Matsue to Kanazawa.

Hagi is where the Meiji Restoration began. There's an excellent open air museum with Shoin Yoshida's school and the homes of several important figures. Nearly all the leaders of post-feudal of Japan came from this group. Hagi also has an excellent temple, Tokoji, with hundreds of stone lanterns.

Matsue is full of great sights, but don't miss Gesshoji, which is one of the less well known. It's a very attractive and contains the tortoise stele that features in one of Lafcadio Hearn's stories. His house is in Matsue, and also a museum about him.

Couple of important (to me) questions.

I've been looking at changing this to move on to Kyoto the day after I arrive in Tokyo, adding an extra night in Tokyo at the end, and dropping Hakone in favor of a third night in the Japan Alps. However, this puts my stay at Koyasan on Sat 25th Sept, two days after the Autumn Equinox. Since the festival seems to be especially associated with cemeteries, is this a bad idea? Will Koyasan be especially crowded that day?

Also, I seem to be moving too slowly for a JR pass to work well for me. I need a Kansai pass for Nara and Koyasan, and will be taking buses in the Japan Alps. So a seven-day pass would only cover Tokushima-Takashima-Matsue-Kanazawa, and even with high-season seat reservations, that comes in at 26,980 vs. 28,300 for the pass. I may buy the pass anyway, to cover short distance trains around Takamatsu and Matsue, but will have to pay separately for both Tokyo-Kyoto and Matsumoto-Tokyo. Can I pay for those tickets with a credit card?

Interesting to read comment on sento vs onsen. I've always heard the term sento used for a public bath. Onsen are hot spring water baths, and the term is also sometimes used for the locations that contain them. Onsen can be in natural pools or man made tubs, but must have natural hot mineral water. There is a lot of controversy over heating the water and adding minerals, yet still using the term onsen.
Any other type of bath, whether big or small, public or private is just a furo or ofuro.

thursdaysd,
if you don't need a JR Pass I wouldn't buy one. You can buy and reserve all your tickets at once when you get to a station or a travel agent and you won't have to go through the hassle of buy a voucher and converting into a pass then having to still make reservations and then limiting yourself to hikari and kodama shinkansens.

I think your time in Koyasan is ok crowd wise.

I have had better luck with VISA credit cards in the JR stations that my account had been alerted ahead of time that I would be using abroad than MC. My MC did not work more than once and it was a valid card. Travel agents will usually take both cc's btw. It would be nice to have a ta in your Kyoto hotel lobby ;)

Aloha!

Thanks HT! I'll go ahead with the new plan. It will put me in Kyoto for the September full moon and the Autumn Equinox (seem to be the same day), and I can hit the 25th of the month market before I leave for Koyasan.

My primary travel card is a Capital One Visa (and back up is a Credit Union Visa), so that will be OK. Last time I traveled, though, Cap One told me I could only notify them of two months travel at a time! And I needed to do it for out of STATE as well as out of country.

I would definitely buy a JR Pass for that trip. The fares are:
3070
8350
16290
-----
27710
1040 Matsue - Izumo - Matsue
-----
28750 + Takamatsu locals

It is easier traveling with a pass than buying tickets.

because it is so close to JR pass price I would not but one because of the restrictions that the pass comes with compared to what you will use it for......not easier by any means when comes to buying pass, exchanging and actually using the pass....I am surprised you are recommending one....

Aloha!

Concur w/ht -- it takes 10 seconds to buy a JR ticket, compared to ample paperwork and wait-in-line time with JR pass -- not to mention the no-Nozomi time penalty.

And I'm not sure how you're getting 8350 for Takamatsu-Matsue. If I take the Marine Liner (actually faster than the more expensive Limited Express) to Okayama I see 7620. And with the Limited Express it's 8770.

I was thinking the pass would be less trouble, but the vote is currently two to one against.... If I have the pass can I just get on a train without a ticket or reservation? And would I want to/could I do that for any of the long distance legs?

BTW, I was assuming that late Sept/early October would be high, not low, season, and priced the reservations accordingly. Is that right? I would think I need reservations for legs like Tokyo-Kyoto? But maybe not Tokushima-Takamatsu? (Which would drop the price.)

<i>If I have the pass can I just get on a train without a ticket or reservation?</i>

Most shinkansen and limited express trains carry non-reserved (jiyu-seki) and reserved (shitei-seki) seats, while a few carry <b>reserved seats only.</b> On most local, rapid and express trains all seats are non-reserved. Personally I would want and do get a reserved seat when I can get one. I don't like looking around for an open seat and many times the non-reserved cars on the shinkansens are full and sometimes smokers but I hear they will be doing away with the smoking cars soon.

You know I am not aware that there are high and low season prices in train fares. I always thought they increased with time and inflation and not by the seasons, but I may be wrong on this. Someone here would know I'm sure(KimJapan).

Aloha!

I noticed that Hyperdia showed "Reserved seat (Low season)" for June dates. When I back-dated to April (since I can't forward date to September) it changed to "Reserved seat" and the price went up. But I have no idea what counts as low season. On European trains I sometimes reserve, and sometimes don't, and often there is room. I would certainly reserve for the shinkansens, but thought it might be overkill for local trains.

I've used JR passes twice, thursdaysd, and found them them very convenient. I ordered the voucher via Internet in advance, and then retrieved the pass in Japan on arrival at NRT. For short, non-Shinkansen trips I just hopped on, but most of my trips were longer and I reserved. I generally reserved immediately before boarding, just stopping at the station midori no madoguchi right there. No waiting of any consequence (to me, in any case). If I knew in advance that it would be a busy travel day I'd book farther in advance, but in general I liked the flexibilty of just showing up.

Another advantage to the JR pass from my possibly warped perspective was the increased opportunity for interaction with Japanese: every time you enter or exit the station you have to show your pass, and even though the interaction is brief it does count as a bit of human contact. I usually ask for the platform number at that point as well.

No access to nozomi is the biggest drawback, but it wasn't a deal breaker for me

You are right, thursdaysd, the 2nd leg of the trip can be had for 7220, so the total is 27,620. Add in a couple of local trips in Takamatsu and it is probably a break-even proposition between buying tix and the 7-day pass (with reserved seats where available).

September is typhoon season so I would wager that it is low-season for seat reservations. You could save some yen by going unreserved.

It hardly matters whether you get a Nozomi or not since your shinkansen travel will be less than an hour.

Since you are visiting Matsue you might want to read the book <i>Kokoro: Hints and Echoes of Japanese Inner Life</i> (1896) by Lafcadio Hearn. His residence and a museum are in Matsue.

Thanks for the book rec, mrwunrfl

I really don't need to take the Nozomi - in fact, although I'd like speed for a couple of really long legs, I'd just as soon go a bit slower so I can see the scenery better.

I figured the high season reservation fee was for the cherry blossom season, so maybe it comes back for fall color. I'll reserve for the long distance legs, but probably not for anything short.

I've been finding the hotel reservations process a bit frustrating, what with the lack of English. Then Toyoko Inn won't let me reserve until 3 months ahead, since I don't belong to their members club, which I would join, except you can only do it IN Japan. Plus the reservation for Matsue has the right name and phone no. but an address in another town altogether! And then Rakuten Travel kept rejecting my credit cards....

Toyoko Inns will be ok to use within the three month period, patience,lol.
Try <b>faxing</b> your info to the hotels directly. I get a better response that way although it usually take a few days to get a response.
Have you tried http://www.japanican.com/index.aspx for ressies instead of Rakuten? I have had more luck and better pricing with them in the past

Aloha!

Nozomi and other Shinkansen trains all travel at the same speed. Nozomi are faster because they have fewer stops (each stop slows the train down by 6-8 mins, including slow down, time at station, and acceleration time).