Thanks, thurdaysd, I’ll take a good look at the place. Asakusa sounds like a good place to start though the station sounds like it might take all our brain power to make sense of it!

I like it and see how it would work. I did much the same at the beginning of my first trip. It was 2 or 3 nights at Tokyo Hilton in Shinjuku, expensive but I wanted a definitely comfortable place to stay and knew what I would get. That was followed by 2 nights in Hakone at an inexpensive minshuku.

It is best to visit Hakone on weekdays as people in the megalopolis apparently like to visit on weekends. I saw a long line of cars going in as I was leaving on a Friday.

I haven't stayed in Asakusa or Ginza. I stayed near Tokyo station for two or three nights once because it was free with certificates and I was heading to Kanazawa next.

I've been staying in Shinjuku the last couple of trips. I like the Hyatt Regency which is across from the Hilton, both in relatively dead Nishi Shinjuku (nishi is west, of the station in this case). Both hotels are stops for the airport limo bus. There is less expensive lodging on the other side of the station (Higashi, east) and that area is more lively. Am thinking of staying in Kabukicho next time at the Gracery Hotel because that is where I end up going for dinner anyway. K-cho is north of the station (btw, kita is north and minami means south). Travel would probably be bus (or train) to Shinjuku and then taxi if the limo bus didn't go to Kabukicho.

Shinjuku station is convenient to both Hakone and Matsumoto. There is an Odakyu Railway direct train, the Romance Car (reservations required), to Hakone Yumoto. There is a limited express train, Super Azusa, from Shinjuku to Matsumoto. So, travel from Hakone to Matsumoto can be easy enough with/without a stay in Shinjuku in between. There is lodging near Hakone Yumoto station that looked interesting and they will pick you up from the station. Lodging on the Hakone Loop would be bus or the little train, or maybe taxi. More lodging along the road to and in Yumoto.

You are going to like visiting Hakone. You mentioned scenic vistas and there is none better in Japan than a view of Fujisan. With a two-night stay you have three chances of getting a day with a good view.

I have a post in moderation. Don't remember if I mentioned that main reason I chose the Hilton was because I wanted a Western bed. The minshuku in Hakone was futon with maybe a small table.

I know you prefer two-night minimum stays. The gassho zukuri in Shirakawago are minshuku and very basic, no beds (these days that might not be true. there are more places that offer Japanese-style and Western-style or combo where room is J-style but have Western beds (like the place I stayed in Beppu). Sleeping on a futon can be a bit rough and for that reason alone you would not want to spend two nights in a g-z in Ogimachi.

But, your travel to/from S-go is short. You have a multi-night stay before it. The next day would be easy to handle after a not-so-good sleep because it is a short bus ride to Kanazawa where you have a three night stay, presumably in a Western hotel. You should sleep well that night. There are hotels near Kanazawa station otherwise just taxi to keep it simple, or bus.

Ok, my career as a Shirakawago promoter is over. I promise.

I would start booking hotels now or soon. I just cancelled two reservations at Fukuoka Grand Regenct that I made many months ago at 18,000 and 20,000. Three nights starting March 29. I checked today and it is 30,000 with no points upgrade option.

Great info, mrwunrfl! I’m inclined to break up the Tokyo stay - first, I’ll need to run it by my husband, whose opinion may differ 😉, but I’ll suggest that this is easier than a day trip to Hakone! Truthfully, Hakone is too far and has too much to do for a day trip for us, so this is the only way we’d go to there.

mrwunrfl, I responded to your earlier post discussing the latest variation on my itinerary, and that post is in moderation. It was the only post I wrote this morning, too. Puzzling!

First reservations made, both cancellable:

1) First 3 nights of Tokyo: Hotel Grand Bach Ginza (good rates with booking,com)
2) Kyoto - last 6 nights of our stay : Cross Hotel (directly on site)

Most places I’m looking at aren’t open yet for booking. By then, I’ll make the decision whether or not we’ll break up our Tokyo stay for a stay in Hakone.

Exciting! I looked at the Cross Hotel for someone when we were there in 2019--it was nice.

Thank you! I’m going to keep my eye on the well-loved Hotel Mume, but I think it’s just beyond my budget. Right now, it’s way too early for reservations.

When booking lodging in Japan it is important to look for info about bed type and dimensions and room sizes. It is important to me, anway.

Double beds in Japan vary in size but that type might be ok for a Japanese couple when she is 5' 3" and he is 5' 7" (actual average heights). It might be good for a 6' 3" man if he sleeps solo and diagonally, ime.

The GB Ginza shows both. The smallest room is "Double B 23㎡" with "Queen size / Width: 151-180 cmx1". That bed would be 60x70".

Google says queen size is 60x80" and double is 54x75" and single is 39x75" and twin is 38x75"

The next two larger rooms are Twin 27㎡ and Twin 36㎡. Both beds being "Single size / Width: 90-130 cm×2"

That single bed size seems hard to believe. It would be only 51"

The hotel looks good. I didn't even look at location to subway and stuff, just the room info. Same price on their Japanese page where I noticed they have property in Kyoto and two other ciities.

I booked a double room in Toyama, not looking at bed dimensions. The front desk lady said they had a twin room for me. I expressed dismay but she said "You will be fine" and she was right. That bed was long enough and def not 51" long.

Thanks for the info, mrwunrfl. Again, very helpful. I’m looking at their breakfast offerings and I must say that they are…weird, at best. I’m probably going to change this reservation since the included breakfast of “wellness offerings” don’t really sound all that appealing.

Trying to keep the prices as close to $200/night as possible but that is a challenge!

Yes, I found breakfast in Japan was generally weird, possibly because I stayed mostly in hotels catering more to Japanese. I often bought yoghurt and OJ from the nearest convenience store and fed myself.

Its Tokyo. Maybe you can balance paying more there considering the lower prices elsewhere.
I saw that Wellness Food Concierge stuff and considered it a bit amusing but thought maybe it was a draw for you, but no.

Definitely not our style! But perhaps there’s just enough normal stuff to satisfy. We’ll see. Lots of places are still not available for booking yet. It’s a start.

thurdaysd, it may come down to doing it on our own, but we’ve found it’s nice to have something at the hotel because we’re not the get up and go types. We’re the get up and have our coffee before we think about anything types!

Good points mrwunrfl! One of my issues with finding places to stay in Japan was the bed sizes. We ended up alot with 2 large sized twin beds. Room size in the business hotels also tended to be small. Fine if you dont plan to spend much time in your room I guess.

progol, you’ll get used to Japanese breakfasts. Honestly, I didn’t find them weird. I want to return to Japan for the food, so healthy. And the cleanliness.

A misunderstanding! I don’t have a problem with a Japanese breakfast - the hotel’s description of a “wellness breakfast” sounded really weird. I’m not exactly sure what that is, but it doesn’t sound all that thrilling.

I picked up the supplies from one of the ever present convenience stores and ate in my room. I'm pretty sure there was usually some kind of kettle so you could make ersatz (aka instant) coffee.

You can expect to see a hot pot in the room but only tea, not coffee. You go to the combini the night before to get the UCC pour-over cup(s) of coffee and a pastry for breakfaat. Inspect the pastry package to make sure you know what is in it. Get the one with apple on the label to be safe.

Thanks for the suggestions, thursdaysd and mrwunrfl. I’m sure we’ll find out way through the breakfast. We both like tea, too, so we’ll adjust.

I'm wondering what time your flight would get into Haneda and if it's a long one. Also, have you been to Japan before? Tokyo is obviously a big city and, if you haven't been here before and are getting in late at night, I would recommend staying in Shinagawa rather than Ginza. The train from Haneda will take you to Shinagawa station. Cross the street, and you're at the Shinagawa Prince Hotel. You should definitely be able to find something there for under $200. If you are looking for something a bit cheaper, cross the street and keep walking up the slope/hill to the Shinagawa Tobu Hotel.

Or the Toyoko Inn Shinagawa which is next to the Prince, although the Prince looks cheap right now.

Jean and thursdaysd,
Thanks for the suggestions. Our flight arrives in the afternoon around 4pm. I’ll look into the recommendations you’ve made and the area you suggest.

I’m still playing with my itinerary and I appreciate all your suggestions.

Hi, again! One more itinerary variation which is gradually coming together, but still leaves room for tweaking! Suggestions welcome!

I tried very hard to fit the Nakesendo trail into our itinerary, but I realize, sadly, that we probably would find it too tiring. Aging is catching up and I’m trying to keep the trip manageable. I do think it’s very doable but not for us.

I’m considering adding Nagano, mostly because it sounds like there are nice scenic vistas in the area. Seeing the historic temple appeals to me, too. How does this compare to Kamikochi and Okuhida? I’m considering a half day to Kamikochi from Okuhida for an EASY walk and then take a later bus to Takayama. Would Shibu Onsen be a preferable place to stay? I’m not wedded to seeing the snow monkeys but if we are here, I’d certainly make an effort to go.

Takayama appeals to me for a longer stay because it sounds like a charming town and we love a place we can wander.

I’m still considering a visit to the Noto Peninsula if we decide to rent a car just for those 2 days. If we include Noto, I don’t think we’d do Nara, since the process of 1) coming back from Noto and returning the car, then 2) travel to Kyoto and 3) then travel to Nara sounds like too much to do in one day (for us). We’d probably visit Nara as a day trip (but I’m not interested in the deer park).

If we don’t go to the Noto Peninsula, I would consider a 2-night stay in Nara and then 5 nights in Kyoto. I think we may be hitting our limit on shrines by now!

We arrive around 4pm in Haneda. We have a total of 26 nights.

Tokyo-6
-day trip to Kamakura
Nagano/Yamanouchi/Shibu onsen -2/3
-snow monkeys, Buddhist temple
Matsumoto-2
Okuhida/Kamikochi-2
Takayama- 4
-day trip to Hida folk villag
-day trip to Shirakawago
Kanazawa-3
Nara-2 or Noto-2 (if we do Noto, we would rent a car for 2 days. If we do Nara, I would probably stay in Kyoto for 5 nights)
Kyoto-5/6
Leave from Osaka

Thoughts/opinions welcome!

I think if you are arriving at Haneda at 4 p.m., then it will be fine for you to travel around Tokyo a bit (for example to Ginza) to get to your hotel. If you are arriving late, and with no knowledge of the city, then the Shinagawa Prince would be my suggestion.

You mentioned 'nearing shrine overload.' Some people can visit tons of shrines. As for me, and for my parents when they came here, shrine overload is definitely a real thing. So, yeah, maybe keep that in mind as you plan places to visit.

Nara is so unique -- I really think you should go! It's a perfect day trip from Kyoto. Kyoto is a modern city with temples and shrines dotted here and there whereas Nara is just a big park with neat temples around the park (Big Buddha!) and deer walking everywhere. It's really quite unforgettable. If I were visiting that area, I'd spend two days in Kyoto and one in Nara, so since you'll be in Kyoto for 5 or 6 days, then not going to Nara seems a shame.

You might want to look into Himeji (incredible white castle - 45 minutes by shinkansen from Kyoto) and Kurashiki (an hour and a half from Kyoto - picturesque town). You could visit Himeji in the morning, then continue on to Kurashiki after lunch, and come back to Kyoto in the evening.

You're not interested in visiting Hiroshima?

If you enjoy biking, there are lots of opportunities to rent simple bikes (what they call 'Mama Shopping Bikes') in Japan. It's very cheap and comfortable (as they are sit-up style rather than mountain-bike style). That can be a really great way to explore a city for an hour or two (or longer if you wish).

There's a Nakasendo post town, Narai-juku, that is about a 50 minute local train ride from Matsumoto--if you want to visit one of the towns on the trail without the hiking. We're hoping to walk the portion from Yabuhara to Narai, weather permitting. I don't think the trains are super frequent (I still have to dig into schedules), but from what I've read, this is an easy-enough day trip from Matsumoto.

Msgo -- off topic, but what app are you using for train schedules? Thanks

I'm using Navitime--but still getting used to it (vs. Hyperdia). At this point, I'm just doing searches by computer, but there is an app that I'll eventually put on the phone.
https://japantravel.navitime.com/en/area/jp/route/

Hakone disappeared!

> there are nice scenic vistas in the area
where in Nagano?

One thing about your Okuhida visit that I am not clear on: are you planning to take the two ropeways up to the top of that mountain?

Nagano/Yamanouchi/Shibu onsen -2/3
-snow monkeys, Buddhist temple
Zenkoji is magnificent, however you will have an opportunity to visit Todaiji in Nara. Beyond that, I have some opinions on this part of the plan, just none good. Maybe IDK what I am missing by not not having visited.

Hida no Sato and Shirakawago are a bit redundant. You can choose one, or the other, or both. The former is a museum. The latter is kind of like a museum with houses to visit but people actually live there.

Hida no Sato is not a day trip. It is just outside of town - you can take a bus up there but can walk/bus back. You don't want to walk up that hill but easy enough to walk down. This is just go to the station and take the next bus. The visit could be a few hours. IIRC, it is a bit hilly on the grounds but ok. It is a nice visit for sure.

Shirakawago is a day trip from Takayama (or Kanazawa). This is go to the station and get reserved bus seats a couple days in advance, or book online. It is popular for daytrippers. Maybe you can just show up and take the next bus, but that is not safe to assume, imo. Ogimachi is easy walking and there is a shuttle that goes up to the wonderful viewpoint.

The shuttle wasn't operating in January when I stayed in Ogimachi. I mentioned that the place I stayed had snow boots for guests. I started trudging up the hill to the viewpoint and saw a boy brushing snow off of a car in the driveway of a house. I absolutely knew where I was, but I asked him if this was the way to the viewpoint. He confirmed the obvious and I thanked him and continued trudging. A few minutes later a car comes up and stops next to me. It was the boy and his mother and they gave me a ride to the top. They stayed for a bit and I got some photos with them. I forget how I got down the hill and back to the village.

Thanks! Good to know. I had finally mastered Hyperdia on the last trip.

Am pretty sure that Narai is a stop for the l'ex that runs the valley to Matsumoto. Is it Shinano?

opps, it is Shinano L'ex but: Trains stop at the following stations:
Nagoya - (Kanayama) - Chikusa - Tajimi - (Ena) - Nakatsugawa - (Nagiso) - (Agematsu) - Kiso-Fukushima - Shiojiri - Matsumoto - (Akashina) - (Hijiri-Kōgen) - Shinonoi - Nagano

Nara as a day trip seems to fit your style. Todaiji is sugoi. Apparently, some people lke the deer park. It was amusing for a few minutes watching other people.

I am not a fan of Kyoto.

Hiroshima certainly can be a day trip from Kyoto. IIRC, emd and child did this, or maybe it was to Miyajima, or maybe it was both.

As far as Noto goes, I don't get why it would be two days, but then, again, I have not visited there. I think it would be a daytrip or 1-nighter. You could, for now, just add those two nights to Kanazawa and figure it out later. There are other places in the area, like S-go, the onsen/scenic rail place that I mentioned earlier, and an onsen town just south.

Have you found some lodging in Okuhida that interests you?

Jenny1968 mentioned Hiroshima and Himeji. And there is more in Chugoku. With Nagano added to the itin I am thinking of suggesting that Matsumoto can be dropped in favor of those points farther south, and even cutting from Kyoto. But, I won't suggest that.

Wow guys! So much info and it’ll take some time to digest it all. Thank you all so much!

FWIW - my idea of a day trip may be different than others. If the transportation takes more than 1 hour (or a little over if it’s direct), it’s possible to do a day trip. If it requires more time and/or changes, it’s not a day trip. For us. I appreciate that there are those who are more energetic but that’s not us!

In answer to some of your questions….

mrwunrfl, yes, Hakone has, for now, been kicked out of the running. After reflection, the idea of chopping up Tokyo didn’t make sense to me; it’s too long of a day trip (for us) and it seems that moving on from Hakone to anywhere else means going back to Tokyo and adding a lot of time to the onward trip, so, for now, it’s out.
I understand that the Hida Folk village isn’t a full day trip - I only meant it as a focus for the day. I like the idea of walking at least one of the ways.

Jean, we’re actually not planning to visit Hiroshima. I’m sure it’s worthwhile, but it’s not in the plan. I do like your description of Nara. And the idea of renting a bike sounds great!

ms_go, I like the idea of Narai. It’s something I will definitely consider. Thanks, too, for the info about Navitime.

I know there’s more but need to review your suggestions more.,

<<Nagano/Yamanouchi/Shibu onsen -2/3
-snow monkeys, Buddhist temple
Zenkoji is magnificent, however you will have an opportunity to visit Todaiji in Nara. Beyond that, I have some opinions on this part of the plan, just none good. Maybe IDK what I am missing by not not having visited.>>

mrwunrfl, just wondering what you mean about what you mean here? What isn’t good? I’m really a bit confused and hope you don’t mind clarifying.

<<Have you found some lodging in Okuhida that interests you?>>

I haven’t zeroed into a specific place yet but I’ve seen several places that look nice. I haven’t figure out exactly where they’re located and how convenient or convenient they might be. Miyama Ouan was one place I saw. Yarimikan was another. But this is still preliminary as I don’t yet have a clear plan. I’ll want to stay in a couple of ryokans but will have to be judicious as they’re so expensive.

<<One thing about your Okuhida visit that I am not clear on: are you planning to take the two ropeways up to the top of that mountain?>>

This sounds like fun, and something we’d probably enjoy doing, but we could see how we feel when we’re actually there.

I don't really want to be a Billy Bummer (like a Debbie Downer but name is actually Bill) about a place in Japan that I am sure that other people have enjoyed and that you might love. FAIK, I might enjoy it. All I can give are my reasons for not going there.

Yama no uchi means "mountain's home" or "mountain home", i think, which sounds nice.

That ropeway does look like fun. I was wondering if the altitude would be an issue.

Which part of the trip or city are you referring to? I appreciate the take on a place even if I choose not to follow your suggestion. If it turns out, I don’t like it, I can always tell myself, “mrwunrfl told me not to go there!” But I’m still not sure which place or places you’re referring to.

I've been posting Japan travel advice here for 20 years. We have people mention their interests and the places they are interested. They post an itinerary. There are lots of places to go, things to see, and when posters make their choices then my approach has been to help them make their plan work for them. Getting negativish about a choice is kinda leaning towards trying to make your plan work for me. There are no bad choices here and fodors should fire me if I every called a choice a mistake.

I was referring to Yamanouchi/Shibu onsen, above.

No problem! I’m not taking your suggestions as the gospel (I hope you don’t mind), but I do appreciate and take your opinion to heart. I never heard of Okuhida until you mentioned it, and now it’s in my plan.

So all I’m asking, then, why not the above? Are the snow monkeys a too-touristy attraction? As I said, I’m not wedded to this. So do you think Nagano be a good place to visit or overkill?

I’m planning to keep Matsumoto. I like the sound of it and the castle appeals to me a lot.

>> Are the snow monkeys a too-touristy attraction?

I don't know. That is certainly my impression. My guess is that it is contrived. People go there to see monkeys in a hot springs. People get spun up about it, the cuteness and all that, and the locals are surely not going to have them leave disappointed. They are going to have those monkeys outside taking a bath bribed by food. Or maybe it is real and those monkeys live wild in the mountains and come down only at uncertain times of the day and you are lucky to see them. And I am somewhat anti-monkey/chimp. I don't think they are particularly cute and they probably harass people for food and then poop in the hot springs. Hate to say it, but I have my doubts that Japanese can have an animal attraction that won't make me sad.

I am an onsen fan. There are many onsen towns in Japan. Shibu Onsen has never been on my radar.

>> So do you think Nagano be a good place to visit or overkill?
It certainly could be either or both, for your trip.