I think that we could take a bus from Matsumoto, no?

https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5941....FROM=5940_6050

thanks, Happy! I’m starting to sort it out now and hope I’m getting somewhere!

Yes. t will be bus not car and from Matsumoto not Takayama. Will you stop in Kamikochi on the way, overnight there? You can go on to Okuhida from there. Or you could go straight to Okuhda. On a following day,, go up the ropeway and then hike down to Kamikochi and bus back to Okuhida or go on to Takayama

There are five onsen towns in Okuhida area. Which one(s) will you visitl? Where will you stay?

So, you find a town and a place to stay and you figure out how to get there (including walk from bus stop or they pick you up there). You make it there some time before dinner and you have a soak and relax. Next day are going to go hiking up/down the ropeway or what? You've got one or two more nights to spend.

Am asking you what you will do for that time. Not that much to do up there in the country, not like Tokyo where there is another museum or owl cafe or restaurant to go to. I noticed that two of the three passes on the page you linked are two day passes, so made for a tourist spending one night.

Along with info, this page shows the tranport network with bothTakayama and Matsomoto on it: Kamikochi Travel Guide (japan-guide.com)

It mentions that it is 90 min from Matsumoto to Kamikoch. Three hours roundtrip travel on a day trip would be a bit much.

Welcome home, progol. I see that you are busy planning again. I'm following closely as I'm considering a trip in November. My version will include less of the Japanese Alps as we would be there roughly one month later than you and understand that the area may receive more inclement weather by then. As such, we're looking to go further west than Kansai. Will this be your first trip to Japan?

mrwunrfl,

What I envision for the stay in Okuhida is, as follows: we’d travel from Matsumoto and have full day for the onsen towns. It looks like Hirayu would be the most convenient for the bus. Then one day to Kamikochi, where we would take an easy hike.

I get what you’re saying that there isn’t much to do, but does the above sound reasonable for 2 people who like to go slowly and not rush around?

Hi, tripplanner,
Welcome aboard this planning thread! Any thoughts you might have, feel free to share, too. This is our first and likely only trip to Japan.

As I’m seeing, we do well when we slow our trips down and try not to rush to places, so I’ve added more time to places that many people might visit in less time, but I guess I also risk being in places that don’t warrant as long a stay. It’s still very much a work in progress.

I think I mentioned on FB that Kamikochi closes for the winter on November 15 - so it may be a game-day decision in early November depending on weather. This link that I've been using for planning advises to "Dress like it is the middle of winter" for late Oct/early Nov. We'll going duly prepared for a cold evening/morning in May (and I hadn't thought about a bear bell, but maybe that, too!).

Thanks, ms_go. I had seen that site and we would be fine - my current plan would have us in the area around the end of October. We wouldn’t be doing serious hiking - we prefer the easy walks so probably wouldn’t be running around with a bear bell!

Still, going through constant revisions. It’s challenging!

I think you have a very good itinerary. Six nights in Tokyo and Kyoto each are good, especially since it's your first time. You won't run out of things to do in either city; if you get bored and / or want a change of scenery, there are plenty with an hour or two train ride away. Given when you're going, you should see some beautiful fall colors in the mountains. I like the suggestions of Nikko and Nara from others. You could also look at Okayama and Himeji, but it would take you west of where you would be. Are you looking at festivals when you will be there as well?

tripplanner,
I’m thinking about adding Nara as a place for a few nights but can’t figure out how to work it in. After Kanazawa? It would be easier to end in Nara but then getting to Itami is either a very expensive taxi ride or a bus and train. Probably doable but I try to keep it simple.

Where would you place Nikko? It just is a little too far for a day trip, I think.

Nikko is north of Tokyo, so before and after that. Going straight to Nikko when you land may be too much travel time, but perhaps you want to just get it done and settle down. I believe there is a bus that goes to Nikko direct from Haneda. If you go after Tokyo, then you'll wind up coming back to Tokyo to connect trains or buses, but I find connecting trains in Tokyo to be fairly straightforward if the two trains come and go from the same station.

Much as I’d love to go everywhere (!), Nikko is a 2 hour trip from Haneda. I don’t see going there from the airport. I’ll consider it for after Tokyo. I’ll need to research more about Nikko. I just remember reading about it as a beautiful and popular town within range of Tokyo.

ms_go, thanks for the link. Are you going camping up there?

It does. You will have some down time, so good idea to take some reading material or post reports to fodors or something.

Matsumoto to Hirayu Onsen 90 min by bus. What kind of lodging and food up there? With a multi-night stay, am not sure I would want to do it in a traditional ryokan with kaiseki dinner for more than one night if meals were not optional.

Afternoon arrival in H.O. and chill? Next day, ropeway and onsen towns (bus up to the ropeway and onsen stops on the return, or something like that; I wonder if there are taxis up there). Second night in Hirayu Onsen,

HO to Kamikochi is only 25 min by bus (10m by taxi, maybe 4000 yen). You go there for the day. You can go on from there to Takayama to have a nice Hida beef dinner and spend the night.

I liked staying at the Best Western in Takayama. It is close to the statiion, comfortable, English spoken. One option would be to stay for a couple of nights and then stay at a traditional ryokan for a night a few blocks away (though you may have experienced that in Okuhida).

Maybe there is more to Okuhida than I think. The people in those five towns would be interested in keeping people there, in that local area. IDK, an onsen day pass and maybe a shuttle between the towns, something. Have been thinking about my stay at Momijiso on Miyajima - wonderful place, great meals, nice room, secluded among the trees and lovely during the day, but at night is was me and a 9-inch black & white TV with four or five hours to blow before going to sleep.

You were considering staying in Asakusa. That would be particularly convenient for visiting Nikko because of the Tobu Railway.

Nikko is a very popular day trip from Tokyo. Or should I say "very, very" popular. It is not 3*very popular like Philosopher's Path in Kyoto during cherry blossoms.

I stayed in Nikko for two nights, so I saw more than the daytrippers did. I could have spent four or five days in the region, between Nikko, Kinugawa Onsen, Yumoto Onsen, and elsewhere. I think it would be easy enough to take the Okuhida time and plop it into Nikko area and the timing might be better, peak time vs past-peak in the Alps. A bit more lively in Nikko, maybe, as it is near to the largest city in the world. Not saying Nikko would be better. Peak means more tourists and close to Tokyo is a world away from a mountain/countryside location that is outside of the Tokyo megalopolis footprint. Nikko might need some moving about though on a lengthy stay. Different vibes.

Nikko Pass: Nikko World Heritage Area Pass and Nikko All Area Pass (japan-guide.com)

Nara is only about 45 minutes by train from Kyoto - no reason not to go straight there after Kanazawa.

Thanks so much, tripplanner. I’ll need to think about it and see if this can work for us.

yeah, I’m thinking that would work.

I really like your idea of going to Takayama from Kamikochi. That seems a good use of time and I’ll bet that’s when we can effectively use luggage forwarding.

>> we can effectively use luggage forwarding

Exactly.
Ship from Matsumoto to Hirayu Onsen and/or Takayama. From H.O. to Takayama. If you had a bag on that last day then I am almost certain there is (there was) a place to leave it in Kamikochi. Might be a place to leave it at H.O. bus stop or you could leave it at your lodging if it is not far from the bus stop (this assuming you have to change buses there).

You will want to go to Nara. It is a day trip from Kyoto. That might mean going to Kyoto station that day. But connecting in Kyoto from Kanazawa to Nara means you don't have to make that trip to the station because you already be there. There is another railway company that can get you from Kyoto, at a station in the city, maybe near your ,lodging, making a day trip easier.

Definitely not camping! After the Inca Trail, I've determined that camping was a once and done experience :) We are hoping to do a nice walk on the afternoon of arrival and then a bit more of a hike the next morning/early afternoon before we head to Takayama.

Thanks so much, mrwunrfl, once more. I think I’m zeroing in on the itinerary. I will include Nara before Kyoto. I’m now thinking of eliminating Noto since I have mixed feelings of renting a car. And I just need to tinker with the coordination. But, for now, the trip will be:
Tokyo
Matsumoto
Okuhida/Kamikochi
Takayama
Kanazawa
Nara
Kyoto

I have time since so many places aren’t available to book till 6 months out. I still want to work out the timing of places, anllocation of days, and when and where to use the luggage forwarding. So honing in on the details. But overall, I think it feels manageable.

I’m not done but it feels like I have a working plan. So thanks, all, so far!

Note that there are two train stations in Nara, on different lines. The JR station is further from the center and the Deer Park. I used the Kintetsu line station (I stayed at the Toyoko Inn right across the street, but I think you are going more upmarket). Besides the Deer Park, a number of temples and a house museum I also did a sake tasting while I was in Nara.

Thanks thursdaysd, I’ll keep that in mind when we get to thr nitty gritty.,

Yes, progol, you a plan that works.
Hotels, Takayama, Kanazawa, Tokyo, Kyoto can be booked well in advamced and rebooked later.

Shirakawago is about halfway between Takayamai about 80 minutes from each. Day trip ok but a night in a gassho zukuri could make it special. The Otani family that runs Koemon is really nice. (only it is futon on floor, no real furniture, like a minshuku)

I did notice that Shirakawago is between Takayama and Kanazawa, and wondering again about moving on to the latter after visiting, thanks to that luggage forwarding thing. I see where that can really be helpful.

A one-night stop sounds lovely - I’ll need to think about it, though not sure how much we’re ready for the futon on the floor.😉

I took a look at some Okuhida youtubes last night. There is civilization up there, more than I imagined (feared). There is at least one hotel with western beds. Spectacular view (on a nice day) from the upper station at the top of the ropeway (altitude about 7000 ft or 2150 m).

Shirakawago video, lodging tour starting at 4:50

Thanks so much, mrwunrfl. The video looks interesting and worth a stop and possible overnight. I’ll start looking at the videos for Okuhida and get a better feel.

I get the feeling I’m not done tweaking my itinerary!

More on Shirakawa-go. Highly recommended.

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...gassho-zukuri/

Very charming! Thank you. We’ll definitely try to stay over and, if not, will certainly make a visit.

Am reminded that we are talking about staying in Ogimachi, Shirakawa-go.

The -go being some kind of adminstrative district and -machi meaning town.

I forget what the ogi means, maybe old or something. I think there are ogimachi in other places, but if you search for ogimachi you will probably find s-go, like here: Ogimachi Village - Shirakawa-go Travel (japan-guide.com)

I think Gokayama is the less-touristed nearby village that KimJapan would recommend.

Thank, mrwunrfl! I’m not sure if we’ll stay over in Shirakawago, but definitely seeing if we can make it work.

And the latest variation on the itinerary, as follows:
Tokyo - 3
Hakone - 2
Tokyo - 2/3
Matsumoto -2
Okuhida/Kamikochi - 2
Takayama - 3
(Shirakawago-1?)
Kanazawa - 3
Nara -2
Kyoto - 6

I like the idea of breaking up Tokyo to stay in Hakone. I’ve been trying to see how to work in a stay in Hakone as it sounds like there’s too much for a day trip (for us) and I don’t like long commutes to the next destination (Matsumoto). This way we can stay in 2 different areas in Tokyo as well. We’d be there toward the end of October so just before peak color change but perhaps getting a taste of it.

I would be concerned about jet lag and moving on from Tokyo after 3 nights. Your first night/day will be arrival day, then you have 2 days and you move on. That would be a lot for me. But staying in different locales could be appealing. I have done that sometimes in really big cities.

Thanks, yestravel. Yeah, it’s something to think about, though if we were doing a day trip, it would be twice as much energy to go and come back, so that’s another way of looking at it.😉

Otherwise, I will probably drop Hakone.

Tokyo is huge and complicated, not the best place to start after a lengthy flight. Any chance you would consider going straight on from Haneda to Hakone? According to Rome2Rio there is a direct bus that does it in two and a half hours, or train, train, bus in under two hours. I would opt to go on, but I didn't take to Tokyo. Actually, depending on when your flights lands, and whether you are in biz where you might get some sleep, I might spend the first night at an airport hotel and get started properly the next morning.

Further up my post, I considered starting in Kamakura and was discouraged from doing that. Hakone is a bit further on so I’m not sure it would make sense. I’d actually like to start in either place rather than Tokyo, but after a looong flight, another 2 1/2 hours isn’t something I want to do. We arrive around 4pm in the afternoon, so I suspect it still makes more sense to start in Tokyo.

If we do Tokyo in 2 parts, I thought starting in Asakusa would be a bit gentler, then returning and staying near/in the Tokyo Station or Ginza area.

I had that same dilemma re Hakone last trip and the one I am planning now. Too long for me for a day trip.

"If we do Tokyo in 2 parts, I thought starting in Asakusa would be a bit gentler, then returning and staying near/in the Tokyo Station or Ginza area."
Maybe it was me but I thought GInza, where we stayed, easier to negotiate than Akakusa. Tokyo Station [size=13px]itself[/size] was insane! Its like a city.

Good to know! I thought the area of Asakusa looked easier as a more traditional neighborhood but dealing with the stations are certainly a large part of it.

I figured the first day would be spent around Asakusa, thereby avoiding dealing with the station. But I’m certainly open to rethinking this.

I stayed in Asakusa my first trip to Japan and liked it. I spent my first night in Japan very close to Shinagawa station and went on to Kyoto the next morning, going back to Tokyo at the end of the trip. I liked the place I stayed in Asakusa, but it might be a bit basic for you (and it was in 2010): https://www.f-kamogawa.jp/english/