Thanks guys, for your considered responses. All of them. I'm pleased I didn't have to duck and cover. I know mang is an acquired taste - but then, so am I. Here's where I'm coming from:

IMHO mang and all those who come in here eyes closed and fists flying add colour to the board. They spark some fascinating responses and a great range of emotion. Which makes for a lively, vital board. Which is what draws us in here.

Filmwill has written some really interesting posts in response, for example, posts that would never have been written. They've made me chuckle too. Gpanda, as keeper of the gate, has opened up the hidden Fodor's history. Kathie has raised the whole fascinating spectre of independant travel vs. guide touring.

downunderjack, in his bluff Aussie way, has said some truths that probably need to be looked at. Try and divorce HOW he's saying it from WHAT he's saying. From my disinterested viewpoint, I've seen dozens of posts following the saga of Touring with Tong - disappearances, cancellations, substitutions. There's another one on the board today: 'Anyone heard from Tong lately?'

Maybe he has a point? I dunno. But it's actually a fair issue to raise. I just wish, downunder, that you'd said it kinda differently. But you made your point very succinctly.


I can't help but also think that 500 or so tourists later, arriving every few days, at 1000bt a head, may just have turned a sweet, secret place into something a little less spontaneous in the last three years. This is inevitable. This is human nature. This is business. This is probably $100 a day for Mr. Fisherman. No wonder he's such a gracious host. Totally cool by me.

I'm sure it's a great show - but it HAS to be a performance, from all concerned, by now. If it's a good performance, you won't know that's what your're watching. Like a great play, you'll abandon yourself to the experience, suspend disbelief and believe it is only happening for YOU, uniquely. This is how it works. It's called show-business.

That's cool by me. Go see the secret show. But, from my disinterested viewpoint, I'm getting the sense that all this Fodor's love may in fact be stretching Tong and her organisation WAY beyond her capacity to cope. I think that's probably more the case than a major crack habit. lol. Do any of you get the feeling that you're loving her to death?

I've never met Tong but from looking at the pictures on her web site I know pretty much where the secret place is. Not so much a secret for most Thais after they've seen the photo but by calling it a "secret place" it does make it sound more exciting! I give her credits for starting this tour and for opening up the area to foreign tourism especially for generating extra income for the fishermen. I also think it's quite refreshing to have a tour to this area of the country instead of the normal tours to the GP, Wats, Klong etc....

IMO the reason that most people are angry at Mango in this instance is because he's trying to undercut the "inventor" or "creator" of this tour on the assumption that Tong is mistreating and underpaying the fishermen. Mango usually make a lot of assumption about people without knowing the full fact or knowing the individual he's attacking and when countered with hard facts he just spew out profanity and insults. Perhaps he's challenged or just plain old angry all the time who knows! I just wish he thinks before he write something as when he's in his "normal" mode he does contribute to the board.

not much of a 'show' - go on a boat, see some monkeys that for once aren't caged up, see some oysters, have a good lunch, enjoy the peace. please - i hate it when people elevate their own experiences of 'travelling' above 'tourist visits' and this is what this smacks of. Why poke holes in others experiences? Why not just accept someone had a good time and not try to denigrate it? I get this kind of rubbish from my immature 21 year old students who go backpacking in their summer breaks and compete for the 'real'-ness of their trips. yawn.

Was this spray directed at me, Bella?

I really didn't intend to provoke an e-cataclysm here, lol.

Dogster- Thank you for your introspective comments and not flaming me here.

Hanuman- You are making gross assumptions about me, take it easy. Your hard facts are soft ones to me. Btw, when have I profanicized, lol? Truce, please.

Filmwill- I like to encourage people to go beyond the norm. My MO might be a bit harsh, but I truly mean well.

Well, so much for the BKK GTG, lol. I'd be risking physical harm at this point. I wouldd do everyone a favor and leave the forum here but I like it too much here, to be honest, with such unique posters as the Dog, et al. As a matter of fact I find the majority of posters here fun and informative.

Btw, I have nothing personal against Tong, for the record. I'm sure she's good at what she does.

Mango7-all input is welcome. My modus operandi is to express my opinion and move on. There are lots who disagree. So what? De gustibus non disputandum est (I'm sure Rizzutto will chime in here to give the exact quote. In fact I rely on his greater skill in this area. I treat quotes sort of like hand grenades. Close is good enough).

My my my!!! I go away to Florida for a nice quiet week, and just look what happens while I'm away... Tsk, tsk, tsk...

(For the record, I've never toured with anyone in BKK, in 15 trips there, but I've met Tong and she is a very nice and sincere person; but I do rather agree with the comment about maybe bringing her more business that she is capable of handling...physically...mentally...healthwise; she is only human after all)

Carol

Although I have great respect for Tong, it is not really fair to say that this is "Tong's secret place" or that the fisherman is exclusively working for her. I am sure she really doesn't want that too. In fact it is a well-known place in Klong Khone Sub-District in Samut Songkhram Province. In has been in the Thai newspapers and on tv a lot. When I was there at the weekend I counted at least six different homestay operations all offering boat tours to see the monkeys. I was doing a site survey for our "Bangkok Daytrips" website and just missed Tong on one of her tours by five minutes. The so-called "fisherman family" is in fact Home Krateng. They do homestay and boat tours. Tong is just one tour guide who brings them business. They take Tong's group out on one of their boats to the specially built fisherman's hut (called krateng in Thai). It is a palace compared to a real krateng out in the bay. They serve food here and also take them to see the monkeys along the coast. You can also book a night here on the krateng which I might do next time.

http://www.thai-blogs.com

I am not sure if I am allowed to post links but the above is a blog I just wrote about my trip to see the monkeys. You will also find links for more information on how to do this trip by yourself. I have posted pictures of the road signs (together with translations) and also maps. But, be warned, it is not easy, as everything is geared up for Thai tourists and not for foreigners. If you are not very adventurous then you might want to use the services of people like Tong. I have seen her website and I am quite impressed with what she has on offer.

Thank you for elucidating here quite succinctly. Nice blog too!

thanks for this review....and for your site...

the name or its stature as a "secret place" are really immaterial...its simply one of the most unique places on side trips from bangkok and tong takes the credit for introducting it to many of us...

i suspect there are other "secret places" in thailand known only to thais and frequented only by thais and thank goodness for that

Bob,

The next time you're here I'll take you to Amphawa weekend floating market, Don Hoi Lod for a lazy lunch and then a sunset cruise to a secret island...

Hanuman- I will find this so-called secret island of yours and expose it and its Chinese associations to the world...and when I find it I'll make damned sure that they won't be selling any Chinese food either.











;)

Funny one Mango. I would invite you on the island for a drink but they only have Tsingtao beer.

Will someone please let me in on the joke with regard to Mango and the Chinese?

Hanuman-is there any way you can take Bob to the secret island and leave him there? My guess is that if you are successful in this endeavor, mango7 won't try very hard to find it. Good plan, eh?

Just read all through this with interest. When I first started posting here (semi) regularly, it seemed that every other Bangkok post was about this most amazing guide named Ratt. And when's the last time her name came up around here?

I've never used either one of them, but I wonder if Fodorite overload has contributed to these guides partially burning out, taking on way more than they can handle.

It's not just us, John...Tong, in particular, is not only fielding Fodorites but TripAdvisor board members AND Thorntree folks as well...you can imagine how much work that totals up to, considering she's just as popular on most of those boards as she is here.

Needless to say, I think it's just her work ethic to work as hard as she does. Considering the state of the world right now, I think it's a good thing to have 'too much' business. :)

Gpanda,

If I leave Bob on my secret fog covered island then the poor natives will have to build a giant wall to contain him. They will think of him as a god that they must appeased with offering of virgins, or if one is hard to find - a blond lady-boy. One day Mango or a Hollywood type like Filmwill will find my island and exploit it by capturing the now "wild" or farrow Bob. Think what would happen if they bring him back to the States!

"Secret place" great exaggeration - there are like half a dozen homestays there! See here for all the info on going there

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/...og=5#feedbacks