This sentence should read:

I have NO doubt she and her team are great and perfectly pitched to this clientele - I have no attitude at all here.

WOW - I didn't think a simple question would cause so much 'forum chaos'! Thanks for all your helpful feedback & your 'entertaining' feedback :)

Goalis7continents-our goal is to inform and incite. Your post provided the opportunity for both.

In regards to the Canine comments-I admit there is a fair degree of in-breeding on this forum. It probably stems from the demographic similarities and the relatively small number of contributors. If a known poster recommends someone or something, many of us follow. Baa! Baa!

Sorry, Dog, but I respectfully disagree. People recommend whom they like on this board--if a bunch of people recommend the same person, then the logical conclusion is that perhaps that person is actually good. If anyone is not happy with the recommendations given on this board then pony up some new ones and if the proof is in the pudding, people WILL use them.

That said, I haven't seen one legitimate recommendation (other than Tong) for the Fishing Village. So until that happens, why be a total prat about it? (that's a question for Mango)

Nothing productive was offered in his post other than mockery of other people's likes of a certain guide. Please tell me what the purpose of the post was? You say he's an iconoclast, Dog, but...ARE YOU SERIOUS? Hahahaha! You actually meant to say philistine, right?

There's a huge difference between your sense of humor, Dog, and his. You're funny by way of irony. He's offensive by way of childishness...anyone remember the lovely pics he sent out when trying to make a point about Chinese food? Is this something a grown man actually does?..'cuz my 4 year old nephew is more sophisticated than that.

Mango, look at it this way, at least you have 1 person who likes you here. That's something to work off of. Continue to lambast me, though--and don't address all the people you've verbally smacked down by making a mockery of them regarding their support of Tong and her tours.

It's a shame you're not coming to the GTG. I, for one, would love to meet you.

goals, sorry to hijack this post...we should actually move this discussion to a new post if the madness must continue.

I am not a FOT (Fan of Tong). Like dogster, I have nothing against her. And if she facilitates others seeing the amazing things that my favorite city in the world holds that's wonderful!

I'm not a fan both because I've never met her (no opportunity since I don't use guides in Bangkok) and because I, too, bristle at the idea that every person who makes a first trip to Bangkok must use Tong. Like dogster, I think we sometimes get into too much group-think here. And I object to recommending guides for everyone. Having a guide clearly changes one's experience of a place - sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. (I've written a little diatribe about guides and it was recently published online at http://www.travelindependently.com)

But unlike dogster, I'm no fan of Mango when he behaves badly... which seems to be all too often lately. I find him mean-spiirited. I see no reason for that here.

That link doesn't seem to be working, Kathie.

I, too, have never met Tong, and am not a big fan of guides - or of Bangkok, for that matter! And I prefer to encounter people serendipitously, rather than be taken by a guide. When I read about tour groups doing "home visits", generally from fans of OAT, I shudder.

Try this:
http://www.travelindependently.com

(leave out the stray parenthesis)

Thnaks, Craig!

Yes, that one works. Good posts, Kathie - is that your blog?

Thursdays, no it's not my blog, it's Cheryl's. She asked me to write some entries for her new blog.

I don't think any of us who recommend Tong think at all that going with her is the only way to enjoy Bangkok. It's definitely not.

However, you'll notice that many of us who recommend her so highly all had been to Bangkok many time and loved it before we ever met Tong. The fact that many of us "no tour guide" travelers love her and think that money spent for a day with her is well worth it, says a lot!

After all, the "group think" here is that SJ is a fabulous shopping stop in Bangkok. Does that make it less attractive now that so many of us go there?

I rarely use guides; it's just not my style. A good one, though, can make a city or monument come alive. Tong is one of those people and that is why many of us speak so highly of her.

Let's go back and review how Tong came to be the favorite of many of us BKK fodorites. She was introduced to us through the delightful trip report written by Offwego (Lori) of thePLF.org fame. Lori exclaimed over her adventures with Tong and how her time in BKK was enhanced.

Several other Fodorites used Tong and also raved about their experience. Beth and I and Bob and Karen were going to meet up in BKK in 2006 and decided we would give Tong a try even though all four of us were BKK veterans. We E-mailed Tong to death requesting that she plan a day that would show us some new things. We essentially beat her into submission. Nonmetheless, she accomplished the impossible and provided us with new experiences that we loved. Bob and I, having no actual lives, wrote lengthy trip reports praising Tong in the highest accolades imaginable. We raved about the secret place. We tricked many other Fodorites into using Tong. For the most part, they too were brainwashed and reported wonderful experiences. A small few reported mediocre experinces. Hence, the legend of Tong was born. Blame Offwego. She started it.

I completely agree that you do not need a guide for BKK. It is easily accessible. My experience (and for once, I am not alone in this) is that a day with Tong was really enjoyable and went beyond typical tourism. In modal language, Tong is not necessary. But a day with her will add to m ost people's enjoyment.

Oh, did I mention that Tong took us to orphanages both days we spent with her. She gave us an opportunity to pretend that we were generous people.

I thought you folks on the Asia Board rarely, if ever, disagreed. Despite European leanings, my favorite thing about 2008's Boston GTG was that I am now the proud owner of a TouringwithTong tee shirt!

And Bob, I think if you had to spend a night with each other, at least one of you, if not both of you would be dead by morning. Taking wagers on which one.....

Bc, meandering over here to see what you folks are on about...

You are all turning this thread into another sickening Tong tribute. Not all of us appreciate this but if we say what we think imagine the attack

its not a tong tyribute, its just a statement of fact and our opinions to which we are entitled...mango is just being cheap, devious and confrontational in bringing up all of this..

my last point on guides in bkk is that if you have limited time in bkk, as most tourists go only once to this wonderful city, then your use of a guide/driver will enhance your chances of seeing more of the city and its sights, while not knocking yourself out, or dying of heat exhaustion in the shortest amount of time and in the easiest of fashions...

is a guide necessary, of course not....is it helpful, certainly especially for short timers in bkk...

So tell us what you think, duJack!

lcuy, your point about SJ is exactly right. I do recommend SJ to people looking for particular kinds of jewelry. But it doesn't carry everything. This week there was a request by a poster for me to supply the SJ info to a new poster who was asking about silver jewelry. I instead told the new poster several places to look for silver jewelry and told her that SJ didn't carry what she was looking for. So yes, SJ is a great shopping stop if you are looking for particular kinds of jewelry. But it isn't for everyone - it isn't even for every jewelry shopper.

I know that many people here love Tong and feel she has enhanced their experience of Bangkok. Again, that's wonderful, but it doesn't mean everyone has to do it. And while I hear you, lcuy, that you don't think Tong is the only way to visit Bangkok. But if you read the threads from first-times going to Bangkok, the recommendations make it sound like it's the only way to go. I know this comes from people's enthusiasm about Tong. That's great, but I feel it's important to note that not everyone feels this way.

>So tell us what you think, duJack!<
said the spider to the fly

If we tell the truth about Tong on this site you get attacked by the Tong lovers of which you are one.
The other sites are much more truthful about her and her constant excuses about frequent absences and cancellations. Her tendencies mirror that of a drug addict. Crack to be more precise. Remember, you asked.

I just read Kathie's blog on independent travel and would like to say I thoroughly agree. It is an excellent introduction. I've gone the tour route and would probably never do it again. (Kokoda trail in New Guinea maybe.) Independent is so much more satisfying as you are relying on your own initiative and not approximating a lemming. However I've been ripped off by both tourist agents and tuk tuk men so maybe I'm wrong.

Crack?

Uh, Jack. Maybe save the theatrics for a more appropriate place.

This isn't the Oscars...