Don't Fly and Why
 

I truly think I will never fly anymore. Here are some miscellaneous thoughts about this...<BR><BR>1. Seeing armed guards all over the place. Waiting in lines. Getting pushed around. Treated like a criminal. Is this prison? No, this is a relaxing vacation.<BR><BR>2. Foreign countries enjoy ripping off tourists. Understand this, we make up alot of your economy. Why don't you treat us better?<BR><BR>3. Airline employees are frustrated people that try to push around the customers whenever they can. I really think that many of them are on a power trip. Isn't it great, I'm a $10.00 / hour worker and I can order around a multi-millionaire.<BR><BR>4. Flight 587 crashed because of wake turbulence. If you believe that, there is a great bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you. Isn't it great that the airline spin doctors come up with an excuse that does not blame lousy security (bomb) or lousy mechanics (bolt not tightened). They really don't want to admit terrorism or poor mechanics unless they have to. <BR><BR>5. I don't know why some plane routes still fly. For instance, NY to DC. Given all of the security and airport traffic a drive or train ride is quicker, cheaper, and more comfortable.<BR><BR>6. It would be nice if USA people would fly less. They can see plenty of attractions inside the USA and keep their dollars here. When I hear that foreign economies are hurting because of lack of USA tourists I truly feel that I don't care. Chances are they don't care about us.<BR><BR>7. It would be really nice to see less travel. Americans can pay off their credit cards with the money they saved by not taking such expensive vacations. It amazes me when I see people in the hole $40,000 to the credit cards take another resort vacation. How can you relax with that debt? Smile when you finally pay more than the minimum on your cards. Don't take a vacation for three years and you can do something that I did...pay cash for a new car.<BR><BR>Sorry for this tirade but I feel that it is time for Americans to get back to basics. You don't need to go around the world to feel relaxed. You don't need to do that to see interesting things. Save your money and pay off your bills.

Steve: You sound like a sanctimonious little man! Woohoo! Big deal you paid cash for your car! Dosen't impress me a bit. Please. please..don't fly anymore. You really won't be missed! And as far as airport/airline employees pushing around multi-millionaires? I really don't think that they are flying scheduled air. .probably fly in their corporate planes!

Can someone inform me how to ask Fodors to remove the above post? <BR>Steve please get a help. You show symptoms of clinical depression. Get help before you do something drastic.

You sure "Steve" isn't code for Taliban?<BR>I have seen and heard some paranoid people in my time but come on. This would be laughable if not for the seriousness of our current climate. I agree get rid of this post.

Steve,<BR><BR>PLEASE TAKE YOUR PROZAC.....We don't need or want to hear anymore doom and gloom mentality. Believe me the news media does a good enough job...As for the safety of flying? Well, FLYING IS STILL SAFER THAN DRIVING BY TEN-FOLD. If you give the a/l personel attitude, they will give it right back, once in a while you will come across a rude and obnoxious ticket/gate agent, simply report them to their supervisor. As for the lastest crash of the AA airbus...I really haven't heard anything yet to suggest just what went wrong...but who would you blame if the brakes suddenly went out on your car, or high winds caused you to lose control of your car and make it crash...who do you lay blame on then??? Having traveled here in the US and abroad, it does not bother me to see the armed guards at the airport. I fully believe our military should be 100% responsible for airline security. Why would we as the traveling public want our safety in the hands of a private organization that is looking at bottom $$$$$$$$, instead of our safety. Our military men/women are highly trained, highly motivated, and trained to FOLLOW ORDERS....win win situtation if you ask me. AS for foreign countries ripping off American tourist.....GET A GRIP....more US citizens are ripped off by their fellow country men than we as tourist are in a foreign country.... AS for Americans staying home....why don't you just nail the coffin shut for 100,000 or more people dependent upon traveler's for their income...well educated and experienced people like my own mother. People like you make me want to run to the bathroom, and flush the toilet.

Steve,<BR><BR>As someone who lives in the UK, I would be more than happy for you to keep yourself and your bigoted, insular and xenophobic opinions on the other side of the Atlantic.<BR><BR>But to the rest of you, you will be MORE than welcome and I hope that you have a truly enjoyable, fun, relaxing and inspirational trip. Come on, let's not give in to these idiots.<BR><BR>

STEVE IS ROUGH BUT RIGHT<BR><BR>1. The relaxed feeling achieved from a vacation lasts, I heard, for only one day. Now that feeling will be lost at the airport on the way home.<BR><BR>2. When times were good we flew all over the world. Ripping off tourists is a sport in most of the world. This causes people to get bad feelings about a place, causing them and others to never go there again. Ultimately ripoffs accomplish less than fair prices and repeat business.<BR><BR>3. Airline employees are usually deceptive when faced with a situation where the truth isn't that great (delays etc...). I'll take the truth.<BR><BR>4. Airlines have lobbyists. They got billions of our tax dollars to stay in business when the market said that some shouldn't. It would not surprise me if they hire "public relations" people just like every other corporation.<BR><BR>5. The point is simple and speaks for itself.<BR><BR>6. He is right. eeping money near home will really help a battered USA economy. If other countries suffer, sorry. We really should look out for our own.<BR><BR>7. This is a very interesting point. I would feel better by having no debt than by having a vacation. Debt in the USA really screws up the economy especially it delays a recovery. It causes numerous failed marriages, suicides, and stress. To think that half of the USA is two paychecks away from homelessness is pretty sad.<BR><BR>

Another point that I forgot to write in the previous post...<BR><BR>I remember when a Tower Air plane crashed while in Kennedy Airport. It was a minor mishap with almost nobody injured that occurred about four years ago. Within an hour of the crash Tower employees went to the plane to paint over the "Tower" logo. Was this for safety or spin? <BR><BR>I truly believe that corporations do not tell the truth when money is involved. They also bend the rules when money is involved too.

I see that my fellow Fodorites are awake...<BR><BR>To the second XXX and Kay... Where did you learn those big words???<BR><BR>Athena writes...<BR>We don't need or want to hear anymore doom and gloom mentality. Believe me the news media does a good enough job...As for the safety of flying? Well, FLYING IS STILL SAFER THAN DRIVING BY TEN-FOLD<BR><BR>I say that you cannot bury your head in the sand about terrorism. Your assumptions are based on the past but as of 9/11 its a new world. Actually since 9/11 air travel killed double the people than car travel.<BR><BR>To ZZZ...<BR>The US needs people like you. We really should pump up our own economy and tell the ripoff foreign countries to take a hike. Maybe we will have a bone to throw them if we get very rich. I can just picture the annoying beach vendors in Jamaica broke. I also hope that the ripoff moped renter in Tahiti is also broke. I laugh when the $6.00 beer vendor at JFK has no customers. I laugh when the cruise ship hustlers (waitors, photographers, etc...) have no more marks to hit. I totally laugh when snooty French waitresses are broke. So you see... stop subsidizing the rest of the world with your money. Keep it here. Those countries will have to go back to making real products, not hustling travelers...

Thanks Steve...<BR><BR>I'm surprised that you did not add cab drivers to your targets...<BR><BR>In any city abroad they are the greatest idots, ripoff artists, and criminals. <BR><BR>There is a great example of taxi drivers all over. See the TV show 'The Amazing Race' CBS Wednesdays at 8:00 PM. This program shows couples racing around the world. The taxi drivers that they hire are morons. Those in India do not have an idea where the Taj Mahal is. Those in Thailand tried to rip a couple off. Keep on going...<BR><BR>9/11 brought a new Usa traveller...the soldier.

Oh God! Your both blooming idiots! Steve and ZZZ that is!

Steve and ZZZ.. stop those racist and narrow minded comments... Hoe can you proof Americans won't rip off tourists? Also, we see fatal car accidents everyday but NOT plane crashes. The point of travel is not only to relax, but also to experience and see other cultures and places that our world has to offer. Let us all ignore the two idiots.

Hey ZZZ? You want us to listen to what you have to say and then you go and say that you watch a so called "reality" show every week?!?! Get a life sport!

Steve=ZZZ<BR><BR>Please Fodors remove this post

Karen writes...<BR><BR>Message: Oh God! Your both blooming idiots! Steve and ZZZ that is!<BR><BR>Karen your use of the work "your" is incorrect. It should be you're, which is a contraction of "you are".<BR><BR>So Karen...YOU'RE a blooming idiot that cannot even use English properly. You did not make a spelling mistake. You made a usage mistake that shows that you don't read or YOU'RE uneducated.<BR><BR>

Steve,<BR><BR>The truth of the matter is AL Queda killed more people in one morning than any airplane crashes ever......Cars are ten times more a deadly form of transportation than flying....flying truely has more than likely never been safer than it is now....Athena is right.....GO TAKE YOUR PROZAC AND SHARE IT WITH ZZZ

Steve and ZZZ,<BR><BR>You both are in desperate need of Prozac judging from your post's here...Athena is right when she says flying is by far safer than driving...it was not the airlines or the airplanes that killed the 1000's in September....it was AL Queda and Usam Bin Laden.....get a grip...and if your that terrified, go stick YOUR head in the sand, or hide in the chicken house...

Penny - You Are Really Nuts....<BR><BR>Airplanes kill people. People don't kill people.

Steve - you are nuts. What are you talking about? People don't kill people? What happens if someone shot you with a gun? You die!!<BR><BR>Airplane doesn't crash by itself. People build airplanes. And it's the one who controls the plane that causes a crash.

Sorry, people, Steve makes excellent points -- not the whole picture, of course. <BR><BR>I'm with you, Steve -- not necessarily going to stay home from now on, but you speak truth.<BR><BR>And by the way, that tired, tired old bit of statistical distortion about being safer in a plane than a car has GOT to go. Unless you are willing to run control studies re: number of accidents and number of fatalities per person per hour per %-age of population, etc. etc. it's meaningless. Planes, which carry clusters of people, operate in 3 dimensions and rarely have walk-away-from accidents. Cars, which usually carry only 1 or 2 people, operate in densely packed bands confined in 2 dimensions and statistics include everything from fender-benders to bridge-abutment fatalities. It's not even apples and oranges -- it's sewing machines and road-graders.<BR><BR>So you AOPA and IATA apologists just buzz off with that nonsense.

PS: Ask the insurance companies why life insurance premiums for pilots are so high compared to that for bus drivers, train engineers, and normal mortals.

Thank You Jer...<BR><BR>All I was trying to say is that we shouldn't act like government programmed robots and fly because of patriotism. <BR><BR>9/11 changed everything. Don't think for a minute that security is better. Don't feel secure...yet. Don't give in to those big-shot airline executives who get on TV and want you to 'feel' good about flying.<BR><BR>In the meanwhile, show your patriotism by keeping your money in the USA. Patronizing a locally owned restaurant or store is way more patriotic than feeding the powerful airlines.<BR><BR>Airlines are so powerful that they got billions of dollars of YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY by bullying our government. I believe that this figure is $14 Billion dollars. Translated this could be $2 million dollars for every person who died in the WTC.<BR><BR>Why does the govt have to support airlines? They aren't going out of business...they are 'rightsizing'. When demand increases they will get larger.<BR><BR>

Although I can't entirely agree with the original post, I had hoped that the one positive thing to come out of 9/11 would be that Americans would rediscover/discover train travel. I feel that the tracks, etc. are probably in poor shape, it would be wonderful to see a renaissance of train travel.

Steve<BR><BR>you say........................<BR><BR>"2. Foreign countries enjoy ripping off tourists. Understand this, we make up alot of your economy. Why don't you treat us better?<BR><BR>6. It would be nice if USA people would fly less. They can see plenty of attractions inside the USA and keep their dollars here. When I hear that foreign economies are hurting because of lack of USA tourists I truly feel that I don't care. Chances are they don't care about us.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Well, As someone who lives in the UK I can vouch for the fact that many people cared very deeply about Sept 11th. We were as horrified as anyone about what happended on that day. However, I find your comments above both mis-guided and arrogant. <BR><BR>Do you not see your attitude - e.g "America is the land of the bountiful and the whole world must respect us" is exactly why these attacks happended? Why MUST you be treated "better"? Because you spend money abroad? Well who doesn't?<BR><BR>I love visiting America - in fact I'm flying to Boston on Wednesday for nothing more than the pleasure of visiting this mostlovely of cities, but I find your remarks insulting and totally unecessary.<BR><BR>Your National Anthem was played at Buckingham Palace as a unique mark of respect! Who says we don't care???<BR><BR>The fact that you spend so little time looking outside the borders of the USA had led you to this problem in the first place. For goodness sake - travel and meet people - its the only way to foster understanding and TOLERANCE!!!<BR><BR>America has been a force for good on many occasions - long may that continue.<BR><BR><BR><BR>

Amazing,<BR><BR>BLOODY WELL SAID MATE........Have a great trip to your most loved city, and I hope to visit one on your continent in the future..have only made it to Germany so far and loved every minute of it...would love to see England, Manchester and some others as well.

Hi Penny<BR><BR>Had a GREAT trip to Boston - wonderful (unseasonal it has to be said!) weather, great food, nice hotel with big room (can recommend the radisson if anyone is interested)and friendly interesting people to talk to. <BR><BR>Couldn't ask for anything more from a quick trip to the US!!<BR><BR>One of my co-workers also flew out to NY on the same day, she also had a really great time (we're both into shopping somewhat!)- we were both touched by the amount of people in both cities who thanked us for visting.<BR><BR>So, if you;re planning a trip to the UK next year, post a message and I'll help with any info I can!!<BR><BR>AND FINALLY<BR><BR>I only found this site in November this year, so I still feel a bit "new" but....I'd like to say...<BR><BR>Happy holidays to all the other fodorites! And my very best wishes for the new year.<BR><BR>RBP<BR>

RBP,<BR><BR>A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOURS. I'm glad you had such a great time on your visit to the States.

Steve is an utter moron. Airplanes kill people. It is like saying guns kill people. On occassion people are killed while onboard airplanes and most always it has some sort of human element that is responsible or contributes to the crash. Steve has taken his liberalism too far. I beleive on 9/11 terrorists killed people not the planes. They used a plane as there weapon but it was these animals who did the killing. Steve remember - not even a gun can kill if left alone. It is an unanimated object until it gets into the hand of a human being who then is able to either use it or not as a weapon.

More people die in car fatalities than on airplanes. You can drive to the store and be killed pulling out of your driveway. Living in fear and paranoia is not LIVING at all. If you choose not to fly, that's your business, but don't presume to tell the rest of us we are 'nuts' for deciding to do so. Last time I checked I had a mind and a wallet....those are what I use to decide when making travel plans.

Here is the latest...<BR><BR>Ney York's governor, who is normally pretty good, no became in my eyes a sell out whore to the airlines with his new 'Keep America Flying' initiative.<BR><BR>Governor, why are you asking people to fly when there is a clear and present danger in the air? Do you value big business over people's lives? Or, are you obligated to them in any way?<BR><BR>Why can't people do some sightseeing near their homes and their relaxing in their homes? It will save them a ton of money and they might discover new things that are not available in a foreign land.<BR><BR>Here is the latest update on security...<BR><BR>I live in upstate New York and drive to Brooklyn daily. I take the NYS Thruway over the Tappan Zee bridge then I take the Madison Ave bridge into Manhattan and then take the Brooklyn bridge into Brooklyn. <BR><BR>There are a gaggle of NY state and NY City police hanging out by the on ramp to the George Wahington bridge from the Deegan Expressway. As I sit in traffic I see countless trucks and cars go over the bridge without being stopped. I cannot help but wonder, "Why are those cops there? Did they thwart anything? Will they ever check a truck out?" I tend to think that they are there to stop traffic onto the bridge if an incident elsewhere happens. It seems like the police are conceding one more incident to prevent a 'Two-fer' or a 'four-fer' like on 9/11.<BR><BR>For non New Yorkers...The FDR drive runs along the East side of Manhattan. At some point it runs under the UN building. There is usually a NY City police car with its lights flashing on the right in the Northbound breakdown area. Last week in traffic I saw the the cop was reading a paper. Yesterday another cop was sleeping, hat pulled over his eyes.<BR><BR>Just like the George Washington Bridge on-ramp I now see a cop by the Madison Avenue bridge every morning, lights flashing on his Ford sedan and all. Again, I never saw him searching anything. <BR><BR>I Brooklyn I work in the Metrotech complex. It has several roads that run under it and several parking garages also underneath. Right after 9/11 some cars were stopped. Now the check points are set up and staffed but the two young guards were listening to the latest rap record as I walked into my office Friday. Some security huh?<BR><BR>My company did a whopping thing to stop a possible? security threat. They prevented non-employees from using out cafeteria. Big deal. The cafeteria is not within the 'employee only' zone. It is a public area with ATMs etc...<BR><BR>All of these security measures described above are within 5 miles of ground zero. Since New York does not take security seriously why should I begin to think that other areas, let alone other countries, do either?<BR><BR>Sorry folks, it will be a long time before I show my patriotism by flying. I will drive to Mammoth Cave, Memphis, and Asheville for my vacation this year. I will not have to change money, go through customs, or deal with foreign idiots employed in the travel industry who pretend not to know English.<BR><BR>FYI... To those who slam me I can gurantee that I flew more than any of you and that I have been to more places. I never even drove more than 150 miles to a destination before. I'll bet that there are many Americans like my self that for years have been subsidizing fat airlines and two-bit foreign tourist ripoff machines who have yet see the sights in their own country.

Hmm.. Steve, I'll remember your comments about foreign countries ripping off tourists the next time I get cheated by a taxi driver in NYC or hustled by a shopkeeper in LA. I don't know why you've got this great big chip on your shoulder, but save your diatribes for your padded cell and leave the poor foreign countries alone.<BR><BR>

Steve,<BR><BR>I think I understand you better now. You are soooo very close to ground zero and reminded on a daily basis of the events of 9/11. May you be blessed with peace and the feeling of being safe and secure once again. But please remember, we too think about the great loss of human life that day, and how it was accomplished. It was not the foreign countries that tourist like to visit. And none of us have or probably ever will forget that infamous day. May you find peace, and happiness in the New Year.

Steve, you saw reading/sleeping cops? Why didn't you take a picture and send to NY Times? You will become famous not only on Fodor's Travel website and get $$$$ you can use to pay off your debts and maybe even more - enough to travel to Europe?

So now they've rescinded the requirement that security employees must have high school educations? Yet another flagrant example of the corporate (Republican?) rules-don't-apply-to-us mentality -- the spirit of the legislation to federalize these workers has been circumvented completely. <BR><BR>So my friends, you are still going to be flying without having anyone's checked baggage screened and you are still relying on people too dumb to finish high school responsible for out-witting the next terrorist -- Al Qaeeda or lone maverick -- who decides he's willing to take himself out for the sake of taking out a plane full of people.<BR><BR>And as for all this sanctimonious rhetoric about whether planes or cars are "safer." LORD I'm sick of that stupid, stupid comparison. It is the crudest form of statistical slight-of-hand and is always trotted out by people looking to feel good through shaming others. For example, there's the issue of choice and control -- why not run figures comparing fault -- autodrivers vs. pilots vs. passengers? I don't know about you, but in a car, I'm usually the driver while in a plane, I have yet to be the pilot. <BR><BR>On top of everything else, it's just plain heartless re: those who have lost anyone in any auto or plane crash -- as if someone made a "right" or "wrong" travel decision and paid with their life. <BR><BR>Lookit, you smartmouth finger-shakers, you're just as dead, no matter what the odds were when you got up this morning. In the meantime, if I don't want to fly because I think other people are taking unacceptable liberties with my security, a) I don't think that's a zero-probability consideration and b)I have that right.<BR><BR>As for expressing patriotism by spending money and taking chances? When was that written into the Constitution? What about expressing patriotism by respecting dissent, just for starters?

To ME: Why AREN'T you?

Steve:<BR><BR>Your not paranoid, just observant. Recently a man w/explosive in his shoes got on an international flight. In addition, two cases of people getting past security w/guns. I'd rather just take a car and go on a local trip this year myself and not have to be excessively searched and having to get to the airport at LEAST 2 hours before flight time. Unless you are going 400+ miles, not worth the aggravation.

To all of you people pig-piling on Steve: Why so upset? He made some very valid points, especially about being treated like a criminal at airports. He said nothing even remotely racist. Do you all have vested interests in airlines or something? Just what are you so uptight about?

Hmmmmmm, no replies. Just as I suspected, y'all have some axe to grind and have to resort to name calling when you have no reasonable objections to the original posting. And BTW, please don't use the term "racist" so loosely. You only harm the legitimate use of the word when you use it in a hysterical manner.

Dear xxx,<BR><BR>Reread the original post: "Foreign countries enjoy ripping off tourists." It MAY not be racist, but it sure as heck is xenophobic, a massive generalization, and downright wrong.<BR><BR>That said, there is something wrong with the system in the US. By and large, my worst travel experiences have been at US airports and on US airlines. Have you been to Singapore's Changi Airport? No major lines there. Have you traveled on Cathay Pacific Airways? I've had nothing but first class treatment. Perhaps there's something to be learned from these "foreign countries"...

To Wild Bill...<BR><BR>Why do you call me a phycho when you seem to agree with almost everything that I say?<BR><BR>No I am not foreign. I line in NY, not the liberal gutter of NYC, but in beautiful, conservative, upstate NY. What about you? Come on out, troll.<BR><BR>Maybe you know what an AMC Gremlin is because you probably frive one. I forgot about that car until you brought it up. Maybe, Wild Bull, you are the only guy in Texas that cannot afford a Suburban, or a pickup truck. BTW, I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee, about $32,000. I was the only cash customer the dealer had in all 12/01.<BR><BR>Wild Bull, do you work for the airlines or one of their powerful lobbying groups? Are you a much hated Texas oilman?<BR><BR>I like to see these out-of-control industries be reined in. The travel industry, next to the wedding industry, is rather shady, unfair, and just simply frequently a ripoff. <BR><BR>People should save their money by seeing whats around them. THis will also boost the US economy because money is kept at home.<BR><BR>If foreign countries suffer, too bad. Build a good product and the world will buy it. Sitting back waiting for tourists and ripping them off will no longer carry your economy. Do some real work.<BR><BR>Having fewer planes in the air will reduce pollution etc...<BR><BR>Lets see if you have the guts to respond back....... <BR>