Flights - would this be crazy?
 

I'm seeing airfare to Jo-burg from the Midwest for 1750 during my travel dates. The bugaboo is this: I'd arrive in Amsterdam at 9:15 a.m. and head to Jo-burg on a 10:15 a.m. flight! Back to back! And would I make the connection? I've never flown into Amsterdam. Thanks!
((@))

You should make it as long as your inbound flight into AMS arrives on time. AMS is a very large airport but it's all interconnected so no need to shuttle between terminals. Since you have an international to international connection, there's no passport control to go through, you simply walk from your arrival gate to your departure gate. At most it takes 15-20 minutes to walk between the farthest international gates.

You can find an airport map that shows approx walk times at www.schiphol.nl - international flights arrive/depart D/E/F/G gates.

How much would the fare be if you overnight in AMS?

If it's all on one carrier (presume KLM/Air France) then it ought to be okay. You would stay in the transit area at AMS (ie without going through immigration) and your bags would go through. As a general rule, if someone will sell you a ticket with a same-carrier connection, it's a "legal connection."

Hi Sharon,

Personally, I'd be very nervous about booking a flight with only 1 hour to connect -- particularly if you are flying out of Chicago or another delay-prone airport.

If you decide to do this, double check the check-in requirements. If you can check in all the way through the Joburg it's doable barring any delays on your outbound flight. If you need to switch carriers and thus queue to check in again, you may fall foul of the check-in requirements of the second carrier if they require you to check in 45 minutes prior to departure. You should also find out what happens if you don't make the connection -- what will the airline provide for you? Some airlines refuse to compensate people who they feel have not left sufficient time to connect.

Cheers,
Julian

Hi - It is the same carrier - KLM. I'm waiting for someone to come up with flights for me separate from what I can do myself. The trick is that I need to get to Lusaka then, for my connection to Mfue. I don't know about overnighting in Amsterdam cost-wise but it would be a nice break and I've never been there so it would be fun. Are such overnight plans more expensive? (other than hotel, of course) Thanks!

Julian ! It's late over there! I have a hunch that the person who's working on my flights will try to put me on the SAA non-stop to Jo-Burg. I'm not sure I want to do that, but I'll see how it all comes out price wise. I may have Nicky do a work-up for me, as well.

((@))

Sharon,

I wouldn't risk it. Spend a night in Amsterdam, if you must, or look for an earlier/later flight for the same day.

If the slightest thing goes wrong, you are screwed, look at the ramifications of that. I've been late enough often enough not to even chance it. Remember it's not really an hour, unless they hold the aircraft open for you, otherwise they will close the doors 10 minutes before departure.

((@))
June 2006 pricing on saa chicago-jnb= $1953.55 including taxes.
Dennis

What time does that flight get to Jo'burg? It must be 10 or 11 at night, so you still have to overnight.

OK - here is what my agent came up with: two options:


1*NW5645T 25MAY TH LNKMSP HK1 105P 225P/O J01 E
2 NW 42T 25MAY TH MSPAMS HK1 320P 630A#1/X J01 E
3*NW8439T 26MAY FR AMSJNB HK1 1005A 845P/X $KL0591T J01 E (you have to overnight in Johannesburg)
4*NW8422T 12JUN MO JNBAMS HK1 1040P 930A#1/O $KL0592T E
5 NW 67T 13JUN TU AMSDTW HK1 1105A 140P/O J02 E
6*NW2973T 13JUN TU DTWLNK HK1 310P 410P/X J02 E




1 SA 64L 27MAY SA JNBLUN HK1 1140A 140P/O $
2 SA 65L 12JUN MO LUNJNB HK1 240P 445P/O $

Published rate as of today - NOT based on instant purchse = $440 including taxes

Option 1 total - $2271.00


OPTION #2:

Via Nairobi - all on one ticket.

1*NW2972L 25MAY TH LNKDTW HK1 500P 810P/O J01 E
2 NW 36L 25MAY TH DTWAMS HK1 1020P 1205P#1/X J01 E
3*KL4341L 26MAY FR AMSNBO HK1 805P 635A#1/O $ E (spend day in Amsterdam)
4 KQ 428M 27MAY SA NBOLUN HK1 1015A 1155A/O $
12 June - overnight Lusaka
5 KQ 424M 13JUN TU LUNNBO HK1 1050A 415P/O $
6*NW8566L 13JUN TU NBOAMS HK1 1010P 535A#1/O $KL0566L J02 E
7 NW 41L 14JUN WE AMSMSP HK1 1045A 1235P/X J02 E
8*NW5636L 14JUN WE MSPLNK HK1 450P 613P/X J02 E

Fare: $2014 + $110 Q + $87 taxes - as of today

English, please?

Cheers,
Julian

You twerp. Check your e-mail.

Given the above choices, I guess the considerations are would you rather overnight in JNB or AMS on the outbound? Returning option 2 requires an extra overnight in Lusaka (I'm assuming with option 1 you can fly from your camp to LUN in time to catch the 2:40pm flight?), how do you feel about this?

My apologies - here is the translation. I thought you all were experts at this sort of thing! ;-)

OPTION 1

1Northwest - LNK Minneapolis 1:05P-2:25P
2 NW 25MAY TH Minn -Amsterdam 3:20P-6:30 a.m.
3*NW 26MAY FR AMSt J0burg 10:05A- 8:45PM overnight in Johannesburg
4*NW 12 JUN MO Joburg-Amster 10:40Pm- 9:30AM
5 NW 13 JUN TU Amster- Minneapolis 11:05 Am- 1:40PM
6*NW2973T 13JUN TU DTWLNK HK1 310P 410P/X J02 E
 

 
Flights to Lusaka:
1 SA 64L 27MAY SA JNBLUN HK1 1140A 140P
2 SA 65L 12JUN MO LUNJNB HK1 240P 445P

Published rate as of today - NOT based on instant purchse = $440 including taxes
 
Option 1 total - $2271.00
 
 
OPTION #2:
 
Via Nairobi - all on one ticket.
 
1*NW 25MAY TH LNK Detroit 5:00 PM- 8:10PM
2 NW 25MAY TH Det. -AMS 10:20PM 12:05PM
3 KLM 26MAY FR AMST-Nairobi 8:05 PM- 6:35AM (spend day in Amsterdam)
4 KQ 428M 27MAY SA NBOLUN HK1 1015A 1155 AM
12 June - overnight Lusaka
5 13JUN TU Lusaka -Nairobi 10:50AM -4:15PM
6 13JUN TU NBO -AMS 10:10PM 5:35AM
7 14JUN WE AMST-Minneap 10:45AM 12:35PM
8 14JUN WE MSP-LNK 4:50 PM 6:13PM
 

 
Option 2 $2211.00

OK I misread option 2, I see that you actually spend 8 hours in AMS, not overnight.

I think I'd prefer option 1 as option 2 is a long way to go without a decent night's rest. I assume after arrival in LUN you'd still have another flight to your camp?

Patty - I'm not sure but I think so, to Lower Zambezi.

Option 3

5/25 (United) LNK-ORD-LHR Dep 6:30 pm Arr 11:15 am
5/26 (Air Kenya) LHR-NBO-LUN Dep 7:00 pm Arr 11:55 am
6/12 (Air Kenya) LUN-NBO-LHR Dep 12:50 pm Arr 6:25 am
6/13 (United) LHR-ORD-LNK Dep 10:35 am Arr 6:22 pm

UA LNK-LHR R/T = $834 all in
KQ LHR-LUN R/T = $962 all in
Total $1796 all in.

I believe all connections at LHR would be in Terminal 3, so no immigration etc.; you'd have (non-overnight) 7 hr layovers in LHR outbound and NBO on the way back.

Gardy - what/where is LHR? Where'd you find these?

Thanks!

London Heathrow...Doh! Me brain is mush!

Gardyloo - DId you just go on the airlines' web sites? Is Air Kenya an OK airline? (Safety, etc..)

Thanks again!

It's Kenya Airways (not Air Kenya which is a mostly domestic carrier) which is pretty well regarded.

www.kenya-airways.com

If you can't purchase on their site, you should be able purchase through Travelocity, etc.

Well, if Gardyloo's itinerary is legit and "doable" I'd like to know where to book. That's as cheap as I've seen the fare for my trip. Hope to hear from him/her again!

Kenya Airways - sorry, my bad. I should know better. Air Kenya was a former joint ticketing partner with BA and I had a wee cramp o' the brain...

I got the fares and schedules off ITA - www.itasoftware.com. You can't book through ITA but you can get the fare details and phone the airlines, or put the specific flights into a "multi-stop" menu on a booking engine (Expedia etc.) and normally pull up the same itinerary.

The key to this is to split the two separate round trips up - one to Europe, the other to Africa. Because no one airline will have a published LNK-LUN fare (not an everyday ticket sale in Nebraska ;) ) you need to subdivide the trip into chunks the airlines <i>do</i> see often.

I tried the Kenya Air (sorry) itin on Expedia and it came back something like $3000; however when I went on www.expedia.co.uk it came back at &pound;617, pretty close to the ITA number. If you get the &quot;fare codes&quot; from the ITA screen and read them over the phone to a competent travel agent they ought to be able to get the exact same fare. ITA, BTW, is the &quot;engine&quot; that powers several booking sites - Orbitz I think, and a couple of others, don't remember. Worth getting to know.

On such a two-ticket itinerary (called &quot;nested&quot; and perfectly legal) you'd need to be sure the first airline tagged your bags all the way to the ultimate destination, although a re-check on a multi-stop Africa itinerary might not be such a bad idea, just to make sure you see them in London or Amsterdam, whatever.

I just priced LHR-LUN on Travelocity and it came back around $980ish for the flights that Gardyloo listed above.

((@)),
what happened to &quot;pop goes the budget&quot;? i would think getting to Africa as soon as possible is more important than the price!! :)
Dennis

I just got a LNK to London on Expedia for $839; and Lond-Lusaka for $901. I'm nervous about the bag check thing though - I've never done that. I also tried LNK to AMS then AMS to Lusaka. ODD! from Amsterdam to Lusaka it's more expensive than London-Lusaka even tho you go thru Amsterdam! Sorry for all the abbreviations. My bed time.

And Dennis, it was Julian's budget that went POP! I'm still trying to keep mine together, although it's not easy..... :-)

<i>I just priced LHR-LUN on Travelocity and it came back around $980ish for the flights that Gardyloo listed above.</i>

Yeah because Travelocity adds their own fees.

My point was that Travelocity is able to price it ;)

Not that I don't looovvvve a good digression, but I need to book my flights!!! Please experts: What should l do? Thanks!

Hey Sharon,

I see you are having some problems with your airfare. I suggest that you try Premier Tours. They seem to have a very good air consolidator department:

http://www.premiertours.com/lowest-airfares.html#africa

They are based out of Philadelphia and you should be able to get better pricing than through Travelocity, Expedia, Orbitz or any of the better known sites.

Also, unless you need to go to South Africa for any reason, I would suggest that you consider the London - Lusaka flight. This may require an overnight in Lusaka at the end of your trip but it would save you from going to Joburg.

The fact that the Lusaka Inter-Continental Hotel is only $131 USD per night, compared to the Inter-Continental Airport Sun in Joburg being $300+ per night would make it worth staying in Lusaka.

Plus, you will save yourself a minimum of four hours in each direction (two hours flying time between Joburg and Lusaka, plus at least two hour layover.

Best of all, it would save you a $400 flight between Joburg and Lusaka.

Although I have never personally flown London - Lusaka, now that I have had my fill of Cape Town for awhile, I do think I will try this routing next time around.

Hi Rocco,

One thing you might want to consider is that the London-Lusaka route is over 3x as expensive as the London-Joburg route -- at last check it was around &pound;1200-&pound;1500 (note pounds, NOT dollars!). Since BA is the only carrier which flies that route, you're in a monopoly situation. For that much money, you could enjoy a very nice night at the Grace, the Westcliff, or one of your other favourite Joburg five-stars and still come out ahead.

Cheers,
Julian

Sorry, I should have clarified -- that's for the BA London - Lusaka direct flight. The indirect routes are closer to about $1000-1200.

Cheers,
Julian

Hi Sharon,

Based on what I’ve seen here, it looks like you will most likely need to have a long layover somewhere – either London, Amsterdam, Nairobi, or Joburg.

A few general points to keep in mind: Being on one ticket is not necessarily a guarantee that you can check your baggage all the way through, so you will want to double-check this. I was on a single ticket for London-SFO on BA/American, and they made me collect my baggage in New York. Note that sometimes they will refuse to check it through if your layover is more than 8-12 hours (the exact number depends on the airline). I fell foul of this in New York as I was just outside the time window, so I couldn’t check it through. Needless to say I was not happy as this effectively meant I was stuck at the airport when I had planned to go into Manhattan to meet a friend for dinner.

Find out whether option 3 will require an overnight in Lusaka.

You need to look at when you will be able to actually reach your first camp (Chiawa) as this will determine whether you are able to do a game drive that day. If you miss the afternoon game drive, you’ve effectively paid for a safari night without any safari activities…not good.

OPTION 1: Minimizes layover time, which could be a plus. Has the benefit of being ticketed through one airline, so you can almost certainly check your bags all the way through. I would note that the connection window in Minneapolis is quite narrow – personally, I always leave at least 1.5 and ideally 2 hours between flights. If you do this one, make sure that NW has a little golf cart at the gate to take you to your connection if it’s not nearby. Accommodation in Joburg can be very inexpensive if all you want is a clean, pleasant place to lay your head. No layover on the way back.

The next two are quite similar, aside from where you do the layover. Would you rather see London or Amsterdam? Of course you’d rather see London, since I’m there :D You need to find out whether option 3 includes all taxes – if it does, this is certainly the least expensive option. It also means you may be able to avoid an overnight in Lusaka on the 12th since it departs later – this may be a plus.

OPTION 2: May be able to check your bags all the way through – check this. Gets you there in one shot with a long layover in Amsterdam. Long layover in Nairobi on the way back.

OPTION 3: Long layover in London instead of Amsterdam. Does this fare include all taxes? If it doesn’t, it’s likely to cost about the same as the other two. If it does – it’s a great deal. However, I would want to take a closer look at the connections – do you end up with a long layover somewhere? Is there enough time between connections?

If they were all priced the same, I would choose option 1 – better to spend that first night, when you’re likely to be tired, jet-lagged, and out of it, in Joburg rather than ‘wasting’ a night on safari. I’d try to get an earlier Joburg-Lusaka flight, though.

However, if Option 3 really is that much less expensive, I would go with Option 3.

Note that I sleep easily (and well) on planes and do not suffer overmuch from jet-lag – if this is not true for you, you may find Options 2 and 3 too exhausting.

Cheers,
Julian

Gardyloo, it seems as if the ITA Software site doesn't include all carriers?

I hadn't come across it before, so I tried it for a trip from Jo'burg to Singapore next year. As far as I know, there is only one direct flight, on Singapore Airlines. I travelled that leg a few years ago, I think I used it to get to Penang via Singapore and KL.

I got plenty of one-stop (or more) options listed, but none of them that direct flight. And I couldn't see anywhere obvious that said what airlines they include in their analysis.

Re SQ between JNB and SIN - you're right - none of the SQ flights are turning up. They always have before, so maybe it's glitch in ITA (which IIRC interfaces with the airlines' Sabre or Amadeus systems several times a day.) Puzzling.

I sent an email to ITA enquiring.

Thanks everyone! Rocco - I'll give them a call today! I'm not having trouble with my flights, just getting input on the options. Personally I like option 3 if I can make it work, or option 1. I think #2 is a bit ambitious even for me.

Another option is a stopover in Nairobi and then onto Lusaka...at least you are not backtracking as you are by flying all the way to Joburg.

Here is what I found on my first attempt at Travelocity:

1
1 adult Total: USD 930.40





Flight: Kenya Airways flight 101 on a Boeing 777 Jet
Depart: London Heathrow, UK (LHR) - Sat, May 27 at 7:00pm
Arrive: Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) - Sun, May 28 at 6:30am


Flight: Kenya Airways flight 424 on a Boeing 767 Jet
Depart: Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) - Sun, May 28 at 8:20am
Arrive: Lusaka, Zambia (LUN) - Sun, May 28 at 10:00am




Flight: Kenya Airways flight 424 on a Boeing 767 Jet
Depart: Lusaka, Zambia (LUN) - Wed, Jun 14 at 12:50pm
Arrive: Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) - Wed, Jun 14 at 4:30pm


Flight: Kenya Airways flight 102 on a Boeing 777 Jet
Depart: Nairobi, Kenya (NBO) - Wed, Jun 14 at 11:59pm
Arrive: London Heathrow, UK (LHR) - Thu, Jun 15 at 6:25am



---What that 12:50PM departure from Lusaka to London means is that Sharon would not even be required to overnight in Lusaka on her final night.