Yellowstone, Teatons and Glacier!
 

Ok group I need your collective wisdom. We are heading to Grand Teatons, Yellowstone, and Glacier end of July. We have Eight Days. Fly in late Friday night to either Billings or Idaho Falls and out of Missoula the following Sunday. How do we split out time.

Thanks
GP

You're really pushing it to include all three during eight days. That amount of time is perfect just for Yellowstone and the Teton. I'd advise saving Glacier for another trip.

Well let me start my collective wisdom by saying that I must admit your spelling of Tetons gets right down to the heart of the matter!

If you want to stay in Yellowstone, you should have reserved yesterday. Most of the good places are gone. I suggest you call Xanterra quicklyand see what is available. At this stage of the game you may face limited choices.

Outside the park you might try West Yellowstone for commercial motels. It fills, but not quite as quickly as inside the park lodging.

For the Tetons, try Colter Bay Village or Signal Mountain Lodge. Both are ok, and might have something still available.

For Glacier, lots of luck. I have no suggestion there. My gambit in years past have been to stay in Waterton, or even Cardston in Canada.

The concessioner for Glacier is www.glacierparkinc.com, but I was unable to raise its web site -- no access for me was possible. The winter headquarters is in Phoenix, so it should not be frozen stiff.

Rising Sun Motor Inn lies on the eastern side of the park, just off of the Sun Road, which goes over Logan Pass. It is the closest place in the park to acceptable I have stayed in. Lake McDonald Lodge is popular and well located on the west side of the park.

Many Glacier Hotel is an old creaky building. Full of atmosphere, but I am not sure about the quality. the hotel dates from 1914; I think the beds do too, but others may have more recent experience with it than I.

It is a full day drive from Yellowstone to Glacier. So you in reality have 7 days.

I would split it 2 for the Grand Teton National Park, 3 for Yellowstone, 1 traveling, and 2 for Glacier.

I personally could fill the 8 days without Glacier because I tend to linger in the Geyser Basins for hours.
And the Bearthooth Range north of the park is pretty, high, and wild.
The pass from Red Lodge over to the Northeast Gate of Yellowstone is a classic mountain drive, and the Chief Joseph Highway is very scenic.

You will find a lot to do. But I am not kidding about those reservations.
The Old Faithful Snow Lodge, which is proably the best place to stay, sold out for the summer last month. People do cancel, but stumbling in to one is matter of luck.

Whereas the Grand Tetons were named from a Frenchman's dream of womanly perfection

but, really, must we be so obvious? 8|

(Just kidding!)

I'm also one that would save Glacier for another trip. Instead, I would spend two days at the Grand Tetons, one day driving the Beartooth Highway up to Red Lodge and around to Cody and then the rest of the time in Yellowstone.

Utahtea

OK
We already have over lapping reservations in Grand TETONS (oops!) Yellowstone and Glacier ( I boooked early so I could cancel a day here and there)and we are going to them all. It may be a mistake but Yellowstone might be our shortest stay. We are not fond of lots of people. 2 years ago we got the Grand Canyon, Mtn Valley, Nat Bridges C. Reef, Brice and Zion plus a night in Vegas in 10 days. We can get around and its just me and the wife. We will spend a night in Great Falls before Glacier. What are the things we should not miss?

Looking to have Fun
GP

All right, I'll bite. Why did you bother posting the question when you seem to have already made up your minds?

GP,

If you don't mind me asking....how many days DO you have reserved for each park and in what order? This would make a BIG difference in whether you should fly into Billings or Idaho Falls.

OK, I can understand wanting to see all three parks, but what made you decide to give Yellowstone the shortest amount of time? Do you like mountain hiking?

When you do cancel some of your reservations in Yellowstone....you are going to make some other people VERY HAPPY!

Utahtea

OK
For Howard.
The reason I post is to hear what other people think. They may tell me something that I do not know and then I can modify my plan. I was told once, plan to improvise. My travel plans are like an outline for a story, but we can wing it if we have to.

For Utahtea
I always respected your advice and enjoyed your trip reports. When I first stared this plan it was going to be 4 nights in Yellowstone 24,25,26,27, then 3 nights in Glacier 28, 29, and 30 these times were reserved. Then I ?discovered? Grand Teton we think we would enjoy this park as much or more than crowded Yellowstone. So I have reservations for the 24, 25, and 26 there. If we fly into Billings it would make Yellowstone our 1st stop but then we would be backtracking. So now the plan is Tetons Yellowstone and Glacier Flying into Idaho Falls. We are flying out of Eureka and either way we get to Billings or Ida. Falls to late to go anywhere that night. We do enjoy hiking. The wife has fully recovered from a very broken ankle last year so we are ready to go. It is looking like 2 days Tetons 2 days Yellowstone 1 night Great Falls 2 days Glacier and 1 night our anniversary and a full moon in Missoula.

Bring on all comments good bad and ugly!

Still looking for fun!
GP

have a great time, but just wanted to say, in my view, even the grandest of tetons don't compare to Yellowstone...

GP,

If you are going to Great Falls, Montana to see the falls....don't waste your time! Mankind has ruined them!

If you do keep the night in Great Falls then please take your time leaving Yellowstone that morning. If you skip Great Falls then please spend that night in Yellowstone.

I would also suggest leaving the Grand Tetons early in the morning to make it to Yellowstone...just to add a few more hours....I think I speak for many on this board...you won't regret the time in Yellowstone.


Utahtea

Utahtea
There are falls in great falls? We are going there to sleep. Do not want to rush out of Yellowstone and we tend to enjoy our drives. It looks like we will be on 89 to GF, we will stop at campgrounds and other sites along the way. I promise when I get back I'll do a report and eat crow if I do not have enough time in Yellowstone.

BUT no one has answered my questions about what to see in these parks?

Are we having fun yet?
GP

GP, your question can be best answered by purchasing Frommer's excellent guide devoted to Yellowstone and the Teton. It's an outstand resource.

You made plans to go out there without knowing why you were going?

I thought everybody knew Yellowstone had rare thermal features like geysers, mud pots, hot springs, boiling springs; and wild life like elk, deer, moose, buffalo, bears, wolves, coyotes, eagles, hawks, and owls; and geologic features like lakes, water falls, mountains, rivers, forests, lava flows, and earth quakes.

I am beginning to like this thread

Mr. Brown nice to hear (see) from you.

With the exception of wolf, moose, and bison (buffalo) we have that all here in N. California. Yes one of my goals is to see a Moose (a male with the antlers). I have seen bison in Utah. I go because ?it is there? and as a life long outdoors person I have been told many a time ?GP you gotta go to Glacier, Yellowstone, Teton.

Also I consider myself a life long student of our natural environment and I am a pretty good plant ecologist. I am just trying to get some feed back on things people found interesting at these parks and why. Myself I would be more excited by specific plant associations native to the greater Yellowstone ecosystem than a bear but most people I know would not care about the plants. I can not wait to see what type of plants are around the thermal features in Yellowstone and how they differ from the ones in Lassen. Now I am having fun!

Still looking for input!
GP

We don't have moose in California???

Then, what's that chocolate thing I ate the other night? [-o<

That chocolate thing was a mouse.
Or is it mousse. Anyhow, it ain't moose. I ate lunch with 3 moostresses once in Glacier. (no moosters in sight)The girls ate acquatic plants from the stream bottom while I had a sandwich. They were very pleasant and polite luncheon companions. When the slurped their green stuff, they pointed their hoofs, and I did not have to pay the check.

Moose spotted in California!

http://www.utahtea.lithium.com/Virgina%20C%20Moose.htm

:?

Utahtea

Well, getting serious about Yellowstone, I can offer a couple of ideas.

Seriously, with the burns of 1988, many of the regions in the southwest part of the park get enough moisture to sprout wildflowers and other plants because the lodgepole pine canopy does not snuff them out.

The Yellowstone Institute offers short courses, some even for credit, that explore the natural environment.

Most of the visitor centers are staffed with a ranger naturalist who can answer a wide variety of questions about flora and fauna. However, budget cuts under the present regime have curtailed the interpretive program.

What happens then is some knowledgeable person is asked 150 - 200 times a day, "When does Old Faithful erupt?" even though the time is posted in highly visible places.

Because of the crowds at Yellowstone, you can expect less interpretation one on one than other parks. But the naturalist led hikes are often very informative. I seek them out on the bulletin boards and try to be selective about the ones I sit in on or go with in the field, but rarely am I disappointed. Of course, you have to bear in mind that the presentation starts off for the lay person.

But illustrated field guides to wildlife and plants are for sale in the visitor centers and one can buy a copy and start wandering.

But, there is usually someone around who can address most questions, even specific ones. Just don't pick a flower and bring it in to be identified!!

As an illustration of what you can learn, one spring while in the visitor center at Capitol Reef, a retired geologist was the naturalist. I got him going on the geologic history of the region and he game me about an hour's presentation from memory. He got into all the rock formations in detail. At the time, I was the only guy all day who asked him a geology question. Most people wanted to know where the rest room was.

GP,

The last time we were in the Grand Tetons - Yellowstone area in 2000, the best place to see moose was the Jackson Lodge. You go out to their patio area at dusk and the moose could be seen coming out to eat (natural vegetation...they are not feed). We were lucky enough to see a mama and her baby playing and having fun. We also saw a big one with antlers in the parking lot area.

The time before the good place to spot moose was at Oxbow overlook also at the Grand Tetons.

Moose have been harder and harder to find in Glacier and Yellowstone.

There's something really special about the heards of buffalo (bison) that roam Yellowstone...I don't know what it is....maybe it's the massive size of the heards...or maybe it's just the beautiful setting. We've seen buffalo in ND, SD, Utah...but Yellowstone is my favorite place to see them.

Utahtea

GP, I forgot to ask where in Yellowstone are you staying?

Utahtea

The chances of seeing moose in Wyoming will depend in good measure on the temperature. During out stay last July-August, because of the extremely hot weather, the moose stayed undercover. In 10 days, all we managed to see were two through our binoculars and the antlers of a third hiding in the brush!
If the weather cooperates, then the aforementioned Oxbow Bend in the Teton is a good place to see them.
Interestingly, this contrasts greatly with a previous September trip. Then, the moose were ever-present during what was the mating season.

Since you asked, my favorite geyser is the Echinaus, (not sure on spelling cause I'm not at home) and I think it's in the Norris Basin. Right or Wrong?? I love to just sit and watch it fill and then erupt. Other family members have other favorites. But you can just sit or walk and watch and watch and watch..

Hi Utahtea

We are staying in Canyon Lodge in one of their high range rooms. I plan on spending at least one sunrise in Hayden Valley.

Have Fun
GP

Echinus Geyser is indeed in the Norris Geyser Basin, to the left of the parking lot as you walk toward the steps that lead downward.

Unfortunately, Echinus is no longer considered to be predictable because its eruptions have become sporadic and, at times, less than thrilling when compared to previous displays.

I was there last summer, and did not see it erupt.

Of the semi predictable ones, Great Fountain, Grand, and Castle are good shows.

Castle sometimes spews and emits steam for 45 to 50 minutes.

GP,

OK, if it were my trip and I was coming up from the Grand Tetons and spending two nights at Canyon Village...this is what I would do.

On the day I left the Grand Tetons I would visit the West Thumb Geyser basin, stop along the lake, visit the Mud Volcano area and see the bubbling mud pots, then I would visit the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone and hike down to the lower falls. At dusk I would drive back to Hayden Valley.

The next day I would plan on spending the whole day going to the different geyser basins. Since you want to be at Hayden Valley at sunrise, this will be the best morning to do it.

Starting with the Old Faithful geyser area I would first check at the visitor center to see when some of the other famous geysers were scheduled to go off. Some have a window of an hour or so and some have windows of several days.

But you might just happen to be in the area when one is scheduled to go off. The last time we were there we were just walking up to Grand Geyser when it started to go off...I thought the man next to me was going to hit me because he had been waiting for two hours. The hike from Old Faithful to Morning Glory pool and back is one of my favorites. The geysers are so different and the pools are breath takingly beautiful.

I would then do the little hikes at Black Sand Basin, Biscut Basin, & Midway Basin geyser basin. All of these are so different and worth the time. Take the Firehole Lake drive and hope you hit a geyser going off. The Fountain Paint Pots will be your next stop and then on to the Norris Geyser Basin. If you run out of time you can always do the Norris Geyser Basin the next day as you exit the park. I've been to geyser area in Lassen and there is NO comparison what so ever!

On the day you leave you can visit Mammoth Hot Springs before exiting the park. I don't know if you realize this or not, but the road between Canyon and the Tower will be closed again this year.

Utahtea

Utahtea's suggested routing through Yellowstone is well thought out.
I would like to suggest one aspect of a Yellowstone visit that I have found enjoyable on more than one occasion: The stroll to Lone Star Geyser.

Lone Star, as the name indicates, sits out by itself well away from the other geysers. The approach path is along an old road that follows the Upper Firehole River. The trail leads through unburned forest, green meadows, and, at times, alongside the clear water of the river.

The geyser itself erupts about every three hours in two phases. What I have enjoyed is to eat my lunch in the shade of the pines and take a nap while waiting for Lone Start to do its thing.
There is a danger of sleeping through the show, but near eruption time a small crowd gathers and the activity usually rouses me.

The Firehole River is near the geyser and people often wade in it and enjoy themselves. On a hot day, its cold water can be refreshing.

The eruption itself is non trivial. While not as powerful as Grand Geyser, it is never-the-less, a spectacular shower of water and steam.

Thank You Utahtea, Mr Brown and the others for Yellowstone advice!

Anyone care to pipe up about Glacier or Grand teton?

Have Fun
GP

Can anyone add advice about visiting Jackson Hole/Tetons/Yellowstone during the last week of May or the first week of September (we're hoping to miss the summer crowds). Temperature, rainy or not, etc.??? If one doesn't like small planes, is it better to fly into Salt Lake City and drive up...any other suggestions?

The first week of September is a great time to go. The crowds are gone, the weather is great and the foliage is beautiful! And, it's mating season, so you'll see lots of moose and other animals.

I have been there in late May and in early September. I found late May to be better. The days are long, but the crowds did not strike me as being as large. On the other hand, Yellowstone is a magnet. If the weather is fairly good, many people will be there.

As for airports, Missoula, Billings, and Bozeman are closer than Salt Lake City. The drive up from Salt Lake City airport is not bad. I came up through Logan and drove to Jackson via Bear Lake. The I 15 route through Idaho with a branch northeast to West Yellowstone is perhaps faster. But I think it is less scenic.

There is another route to Jackson over the Teton Pass. Take I 15 north from SLC as far as Idaho Falls. Then turn east on US 26 until it intersects with Idaho 31. Follow Idaho 31 to the pass and the route becomes Wyoming 22.

The Teton Pass is steep in places, and scenic. I drove it once in some kind of a car from a rental company. I forget what it was, but it lacked considerable oomph. For some reaon it had a tachometer on it, which was most useless as an engine performance indicator, although it did provide some amusement. I was roaring up the pass about 25 mph with the engine straining mightily in a lower gear. It was churning about 5,000 - 5,500 rpm but we were not gaining much speed; 30 mph was about all it would do on the upslope. I would not have been surprised if one of the cylinders had started to burn a piston or a valve. (I did stop at the top and check the oil, very carefully with a couple of paper towels for insulation.)

About half way up, with the engine sounding like we were nearing the sound barrier, but with the speedometer stuck on 23 or so, my wife leaned over, studied the needles for about 20 seoncds, and concluded, "One of them is gaining and one is losing." Even trucks wanted to go faster than I could.

At least the radiator did not boil over. I was keeping a close eye on that guage, too. But it had an idiot light rather than a needle. Fortunately, the light never came on.

At least the car had good brakes because the transmission would provide braking only in the lowest gear which threatened to push the tach past the red line.

To hnskrnc:

We were in Yellowstone the first week of June and were surprized to find the crowds weren NOT there yet. The rangers said the season didn't really start until the 2nd week. We had BEAUTIFUL weather...but your mileage may vary;)

Utahtea