What's a reasonable tip?
 

Hi, all!

I really need your help on this one!

What is a reasonable amount to tip in a restaurant? 10%? 15%? 20%? more/less?

My second question is: when, in the US (NOT overseas), is the tip AUTOMATICALLY added to the total?

My third question is: do you base the percentage on the meal total without tax? Or does your tip include the tax, thus, giving a bigger tip?

Just curious, as I have travelled and eaten all over the world and tipped based on certain "norms" - my own :) which I always thought was the pretty universal way of doing things

- but something happened recently - I had a US restaurant, without any kind of forewarning and after the meal had been consumed, automatically add in an amount and claim that I had to pay it! I always thought that the tip was MINE to give and not the restaurant's RIGHT to take out of my pocket! In over 40 years of eating and tipping at all kinds of restaurants, I've never had this kind of thing happen before, so would appreciate your guidance!

The automatic adding-in of the tip is an increasing and unfortunate development in US restaurants. I first noticed it in places with Euro pretensions. Sometimes it's noted on the menu, so check carefully or ask in advance. When it's added in, it's non-negotiable. This makes no sense -- if they're going to add it in anyway, it should be right there in the prices. I usually tip 15-20 percent of the pre-tax amount, depending on how demanding I was and how attentive the server was, occasionally higher.

Here in NYC we have it easy when it comes to calculating a tip. Our city tax is 8.25%. We just double the tax and there is your tip...16-1/2%.

I feel that the tip always relies on the service. Poor service...a lesser amount and vice cersa.

The standard rate for gratuity (they say) is 15% in the US. If you have friends who are food servers, they will try to tell you that 15% is the base rate for barely adequate service, so 20% is a better tip for good service.

I tip in-between, although I must say I will tip 20% up to $50. Since most food servers are living off their tips (and many share their tip money with the busboys etc.), I think it's fair.

Cities where the vast majority of tourist trade is foreign (I'm thinking specifically of Miami Beach as an example) will automatically throw a 15% gratuity line item on their restaurant bills. Guests are invited to change the amount as desired. It is NOT a requirement that you pay this gratuity at all-- it's couched in "this is a suggestion and a convenience" terms. Oh, and many higher-end restaurants will add 15-17% gratuity to bills for parties of 8 or more, again as a suggestion and a convenience.

If the municipality you're in charges tax on food, you can use it to help calculate the tip (which should be computed on the base, i.e., food and drinks). Example: In LA County, the sales tax is 8.25%. Double the tax amount, that's 16.5% of the total bill, a pretty fair tip.

It depends where you are some people just double the tax amount and give the tip that way. Always check your bill. In high tourist areas like NYC, South Beach Miami are good for adding a surcharge.Look at the bill closely . One of the old NYC waiter tricks was They use to put it on the back of the old style checks in the drink Section They would put SC and a price most people would not bother to check it or would think it was a code for the bartender like short hand. so it would be hidden in the price so they would get a double tip. always check if it is added in leave nothing additonal . I know of one restaurant that would not run your credit card until the tip was filled in or not so they don't get rejected after the tip is added .

Well I always tip 20% of the pre-tax amount which ends up being a little over 15% of the total bill. I am just not good at math in the head so I take the total (before taxes an dmove the decimal point over one space giving a 10% amount and then just double that! The old double the tax amount only works in some states. You know there are states out there wher tax is only 5% so doubling the tax would NOT be enough inthat case and then there are states that have retaurant tax of 12.5% so if you doubled that it would be WAY too much (unless you had super duper service!) As for the automatically adding it in thing, I think this is pretty common whe your party is ove r acertain amount of people, this used to be 10 or 12 people. Lately I have see a lot of restaurants where they have an automatic tip added in for party of 6 or more persons. Thsi is almost always a standard 15% I don't think I have ever seen an automatic higher but I have tipped a little extra on occasion when the 15% was automatic!

I have seen surcharges for seperate checks.

I think you'll find that tipping 'norms' vary slightly depending on location. I live in LA and I generally tip 20% of the after tax total for what I consider good service. If the service is excellent and above and beyond what I would expect, I tip 25%. If the service is just OK, I tip 15%. I haven't encountered the automatic gratuity yet except in instances where your party is 8 or more. Then I think they generally add 15-18%. I would think that if the service was truly disappointing though, you could speak with management. I can't imagine that there's any right for them to charge a fixed percentage regardless of the service level.

So how much did they automatically add to the bill, how was the service, and did they indicate whether it could be adjusted up or down?

I have worked in restaurants in Europe and the US. Personally I would never return to a restaurant which had an automatic tip added to the bill. This policy has nothing to do with the quality of service or the server, and I believe it leads to 'I don't give a damn' service.

I think that 15% is adequate for volentary tipping. Tip more if the server has worked their rear off for you and made you feel good.

luv2fly, just so you know, NYC sales tax is now 8.625%

My husband and I dined at a small local gourmet place (St. Pete Beach Florida) and they added 18% automatically (on the total including wine). Yes, there are lots of Europeans in the area, and it was noted on the bottom of the menu in fine print, but for some reason that really burned us. And we usually tip 20% or a little more. The food and the service was pretty good (we were the only ones in there) but we didn't add anything extra, and won't be going back - it feels like they took away my right to complement my server in the form of a tip.

In San Francisco restaurants a tip is added to the bill for parties of 6 or more, sometimes 5 or more. It should be printed on the menu, or told while taking reservation. I don't agree that a tip is non-negotiable, I had it once removed completely when there was a problem with the food served.

Thanks, all, for your careful and detailed responses! I'll just have to be more alert from now on and pretend that I'm in Europe :)

For those of you who asked, here's the whole situation:
I usually start with my "standard" of 15% of the total including the tax - and rounded up to the nearest dollar. The tip goes up from there depending on the service, the food, etc.

In restaurants which we frequent and where we get the extra welcome and where we know the food is good, my norm is 20% of the total including the tax.

I figure that by including the tax when calculating the tip, I am already "overtipping".

As to this particular restaurant, the service was terrible - I had to constantly go after the service people, even to get the initial drinks. The food was on the skimpy side and was average, but not great. The service people did not know who had ordered what, so there was general confusion when the plates arrived. The butter came AFTER all the first round of bread had been consumed and, since there had not been enough bread to go around, more bread had to be reordered - requested several times before the additional bread came.

In other words, I EXPECT the servicers to monitor the bread, butter, drinks situation. I expect the servicers to know who had ordered what.

We were a group of 24, so I was careful to check the menu to see what if any fixed rate there was. Nothing was listed. Since there was general confusion from the servicers, I forgot to ask about the tip, being more concerned about getting drinks, bread, etc.

When the check came, they had added - by hand - a tip of 20% on the total including tax!

Had they not done that, I would have been unhappy, but would have given them my standard 15% without saying anything. Needless to say, with the poor service, the skimpy portions, and the average food, no way was I going to pay 20%!

I discreetly went to the front, asked for the manager, and he insisted that this is what they do for all large parties over 8 people. He then pulled out a menu that was not the same as the one I had seen and which had the fixed percentage for large parties written in small letters on the bottom. When I saw this other menu I flipped. Politeness went out the door and I told him if he wanted me to pay for the meal he had better leave the amount of tip to me.

He did. They got 15%. End of story.

Here It is 5% so we triple our tax.

We tip 20% of the total bill.

jason, i really like the way you handled this, especially for giving the 15% grautity. I think you showed your classiness by still tipping, yet insisting on your right to determine your own tip. As for a table of 24, I can imagine that easily being a mixup for the staff. By the way, you must have had a reservation...perhaps they informed the "host" of this policy and you weren't told for this reason?

I plan on tipping 15% (before taxes). If the service is lacking. I may drop it to 10%. If the service is excellent, I move up to 20%. If the service is extraordinary, I'm a whopping over-tipper (because I appreciate the service, that extraordinary service is quite unusual, and figure I'm helping to make up for the "stiffs".

If the service is truly dismal, instead of a tip, I leave a note specifying exactly why I left no gratuity.

Having done my time slinging hash I am not unsympathetic to the plight of restaurant servers. Yes, they DO rely on tips, as restaurant owners can skirt even minimum wage laws. When service is good but not great - sort of the mimimum level expected - I leave 15% of pretax. If it is just drinks, then 10% is the norm. If service is wanting, I ratchet down a bit, usually not less than 10% but have been known on very rare (maybe twice ever) occasion to leave a clearly insulting amount. If service is better than OK I go up, sometimes quite a bit.
So what constitutes good service? A friendly but not overly familiar greeting, knowledge of the menu and wine list, prompt an unobtrusive attention to empty water glasses/ butter dishes/bread baskets etc. Knowing enough about how the kitchen is running to time orders for the various courses so we get food at the appropriate temperature is key, but I can't hold a server responsible for badly cooked food (that's the chef's fault.) Add not bothering me with endless "how is everything" queries after I've said it's OK, promptly fixing anything I didn't find OK, and - my biggest bugaboo! - waiting to clear until all at the table have finished the course. When they whisk away a plate as soon as one person appears to be finished I want to ask "Are you running out of dishes in tthe kitchen?" So call me a curmudgeon!

Here in Naples, Florida we are surrounded with many foreign (mostly European) tourists and many of the restaurant workers are ready to give up. Despite efforts like including a print out about "tipping customs" in the US, many customers still would leave only change or a dollar for bills of up to several hundred dollars in nice restuarants. Some restaurants have taken to adding a tip, others still try not to. And some have actually authorized the servers to add in a 15% tip so long as they tell the customers it is a suggestion (and yes, most do then pay it). I can't understand why so many Europeans would travel to the US without finding out more about tipping customs. I can't imagine my going to a foreign country without checking out their customs.

Patrick and others, I'm an Australian who has visited the US a few times and I'm looking forward to coming back again next month. There are many many things I love about America but tipping isn't one of them. I hate the way that everyone you come into contact with has their hand out, from waiters to cabbies to red caps at the airports. It wears very thin very quickly.

Just because it's a custom to tip everyone in the US doesn't mean every tourist is going to do it, especially if it goes against what comes naturally in their own homeland. We tip in Australia but it's not expected and it's generally only done in response to superior service.

To be honest, sometimes I feel as though I'm expected to pay these people's wages and I don't like that. Why should I? I didn't hire them. I'll pay their employer and their employer can pay them. If employers don't pay enough, either don't work for them (I know, I know, someone always will) or get organised - there is a power in the union you know. The proliferation and increasing expectations in regards to tipping represent a totally stuffed economic model, in my view. I've occasionally declined to tip people in the US when I wasn't happy with their service and the "you're taking food out of my mouth" look I've received really makes me angry. I feel like saying to them "I'm not taking the food, your lousy employer is!"

I'm happy to pay for good service but I resent the expectation that I always have to pay extra for any kind of service.

There. That's off my chest. Now I can get back to planning my holiday.

I tip 20% of the whole bill for good service, and maybe I have been lucky, but I usually seem to get good service. I have only encountered the pre-added tip in Miami, when I have to say I found it annoying--you just don't eexpect it for a party of 2!--or in some establishments for larger (6+) parties. This seems to be especially true in fine dining establishments, where I have had pre-added gratuities of 16% to 18%, which is self-defeating in my case because I would have tipped more if left to my own devices.

I must say that for a REALLY large group, like the 24 mentioned, I would certainly expect an added-on service charge, and only wish the restaurant where I worked one summer during college had followed the practice! At the bustling downtown Chicago place where I worked lunches, large office groups were not uncommon, and everyone must have assumed "someone else" was tipping, because I was stiffed more than once by groups of 10-12 diners after I had really worked hard to attend to their needs. And large parties do place quite a drag on the server who also has to attend to other tables!

Pumblechook, I'm intriqued by the idea that you would apparently be happier if all the food costs in the US were 15% higher. That way you wouldn't have to tip, but you'd still be paying the same amount, and letting the restaurant pay all their waiters a good salary rather than letting customers "reward" better servers with larger tips. I guess that would make you happier?? Apparently you fail to realize that different countries do things different ways. If you truly believe that everything should be done the way it is back home, then you probably should not be traveling.

I hate the fact that I can't get tap water with my meal in Italy, but that doesn't mean I resent them because they don't serve tap water like they do at home. And I suppose you would resent a Japanese restaurant because they only bring chopsticks, when back home you'd get a fork? Just because Australian restaurants add in the full cost of employing their staff in their meals, doesn't mean it's going to work that way in other countries. It really is that simple!!!!

Hi Patrick, Yes I would be happier if the impact of removing tipping was that all food costs went up by 15% because it would remove the ambiguity that exists at the moment. Service charges (as opposed to rewarding good service with a tip) are vague, artificial costs imposed by scumbag employers who don't want to pay their workers a living wage.

Mind you, not all food costs would go up by 15% - only the cost of food in restaurants. I don't recall having to slip the checkout girl at the supermarket a couple of bucks to get her to do her job.

If the cost of restaurant dining went up by 15% it wouldn't bother me at all. It would be cost neutral from my point of view (I didn't say I don't tip, I just resent the expectation). It would also help get rid of a system that doesn't serve anyone except the employers who don't want to pay a decent wage.

I'm not looking to get into a slanging match and I'm not suggesting that everyone should do things the way we do them in Australia. I'm just expressing an opinion and that is "enforced, or expected, tipping really sucks", no matter what country it's in.

OK, and yes of course, I was only talking about restaurant food costs, not grocery costs.

But since we are talking about how "foreigners" dislike certain customs, this brings to mind one of the things many Americans dislike about service in Europe (where you don't tip for good service normally). And that is that the service is often very slow, and it is often next to impossible to get a check, pay a bill, or have a server come to check on your meal once it has been served. One of the "benefits" of the US tipping custom is that it really does encourage servers to give better service since they know they are likely to make more money if they make their customers happy. Pay all waiters the same standard wage and any extra service is certain to go out the window just as it often does in countries where there is little or no tipping, or at least where the server's income isn't dependent upon his tips.

I take your point and putting my bolshie hat on I would say it's a shame that tipping has become as institutionalised as it has. The thing that really gets under my skin though is the spread of tipping to all service industries. Life would be a lot simpler if employers and governments stuck to the "a decent day's pay for a decent day's work" principle.

Besides. it's too confusing for a simple-minded tourist like me to know what the acceptable tip level is for each industry. I now know it's about 15% for a waiter in the US but what about the red cap, the hotel valet, the doorman, the taxi driver, the tour guide, the tour bus driver, yada yada yada. Maybe someone should put out a guide?

I honestly believe that many foreigners visiting America are overawed by the amount of tipping expected. One reaction to that is to say "Bugger it, I'm not tipping anyone."

Patrick, you've completely missed Pumblechook's point here. He states that he is happy to tip when deserved, but not when it isn't...

He also states (and to my observation, accurately so) that many in the US of A expect gratuities all the while behaving as though they couldn't be less interested in serving you, all the while being disgusted with anyone who declines to "reward" them.

I doubt there is anyone on the planet not inclined to "show their appreciation" when the service/attention/assistance they've received is worthy of same.

The lack of the availability of tap water in Italy is not the fault of the server, for heavens sake! Perhaps you would deprive your server of a gratuity of the food is terrible, even though it was not prepared by them?

It is utterly incomprehensive that you state that restaurants should "let customers reward the 'better servers' with larger tips". Think about it. That is positively ludicrous! No restaurant should employ less than "better servers" - you think?

"I doubt there is anyone on the planet not inclined to "show their appreciation" when the service/attention/assistance they've received is worthy of same."

You've got to be kidding, right? And you call Patrick ludicrous!

IMHO, tipping as a "general" rule on my part is 15-20% pre tax amount.Depending how many we are,how many drinks,how long we are there,etc etc....Since I too have "slung hash",I always remember that the waitron will "tip out" the bartender 10-15% of his/her tips for the night...So I generally will add that amount soz the BT gets his share too.

Wow is it hard to be understood here. I wasn't saying "many Americans dislike European customs". How out of context can you get? I was saying that one custom Americans dislike is not being able to pay their bill when they want in Europe. That's all -- and it is a fact of life!! Most of us European travelers probably prefer the European eating customs, but that is one thing that many posters over at the other forum DO complain about. Take away any "reward" system for good servers in the US and you will find swarms of people complaining even more than now about the lack of good (often substituting "quick") service.

And I suggest you reread your post, djkbooks. Talk about ludicrous! "No restaurant should employ less than better servers" you say. I agree they shouldn't hire poor servers. But if you truly think that there is no such thing as a "better" server than others in any restaurant in the world, you must not get out much. There is no way I will believe that all servers are exactly equal in their skills and practices. The word "better" is not the same as the word "good". And if you really believe that working to get better tips doesn't make some waiters give "better" service than others, you are simply being naive!

On the other hand, I'll be the first to admit that tipping is out of hand here. And I'm one of those that is equally confused about some tips. When arriving at a large hotel, how many valet parkers,captains of handling the luggage, individuals moving the luggage from the car to the curb, another moving it to the lobby, and a third bringing it to the room should we be expected to tip??

<.. service in Europe (where you don't tip for good service normally) ..>

Seemed to me most EU restaurants automatically added a service charge to which a minor amount may be left as an extra if service was good - which is perhaps one reason europeans don't tip well in Florida as someone mentioned, they don't look closely at the detail in the check & just assume there's 10% in there for service charge.

Here is a link to US tipping:http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageTipsUS.html
Hope this helps. :S-

Here is a better link in my opinion (and yes I believe in dancing with who brings ya!)
http://www.fodors.com/features/nfdis...124_stt_tg_usa
:S-

Joan: When you suggest that maybe the "host" had been informed - I was the host, and I was not informed.

Seamus: Your description fits exactly my image of good service.

Pumblechook: I agree with you 100%.

To me, my tip is my thank you to the servicer for a job well done. It is not intended to be wage supplement or, God forbid, wage replacement. The excuse that the wait staff "depends" on their tips is not acceptable. There are plenty of lowly paid people who get NO tips at all.

I usually leave a few small bills in a hotel room when I vacate the room - this is for the hard-working person whom I never see who has given me a clean room - yes, the hotel cleaning woman. I may be wrong, but the cleaning woman probably needs her small tip more than those wait people. And I'm not wrong on this, the cleaning woman has worked MUCH harder than any wait person.

Dining out should be a pleasurable experience. When the wait person turns out to be a chucklehead, it ruins the evening. Why should I overly thank someone for ruining my evening? 15% is more than adequate for a chucklehead, even if the 15% has to be shared. The unfortunate thing about wait people in the US is that they are usually just taking this as a temporary position on their way to "something better" - there is generally no professionalism here - as there is in Europe.

A tip, whatever the amount, should be VOLUNTARY, when it is made "nonnegotiable" or "obligatory", then this means that I will - just as VOLUNTARILY - take my business elsewhere. Hopefully, to a much more pleasurable diining experience :)

Jason, actually, the argument that servers depend on tips is acceptable. As it has been stated earlier, they are paid below minimum wage. That's just how it is done here. While I don't agree with it, there is an expectation to tip 15% as long as they do their job. By not tipping, you are only hurting the server(s), no one else.

Like some others have said, I would personally like to see the food prices include service charges for the wait staff. However, that seems unlikely here, so you tip. The one positive of you doing the tipping is you get to decide how much you pay for the service you received.

Jason, you are being naive if you think their tips are not the major part of a server's income. When I was a waitperson, I think I made $1.52 an hour, and totally depended on the tips to arrive at anything approaching even minimum wages--this may be wrong, but it seems to be how it is done in the US.

If you were hosting 24 people, perhaps you would voluntarily have left the usual 15%, but during my time as a server, big groups were often just chipping in on the bill, and NO ONE left much of anything toward the tip, and the service was not the problem!

Some points I wanted to make after reading thru this thread:

I waited tables for many years in Florida and Canadians and British were the worst tippers by far!!

Germans and French were not only the kindest but the best tippers outside of Americans.

Please always tip on tax because the gov't will tax the server on the FULL amount of their total sales, including tax. Every time you don't tip on the total amount that much more comes out of the waiters pocket.

If you get bad service, tip at least 10% AND TELL THE MANAGER! Everyone has bad days. Too many bad days and then the manager can make a staffing change, but simply not tipping will not alert anyone there is a problem, it just perpetuates it!

It may not be fair and you may not agree with tipping practices. You might be able to sit high and mighty saying that you don't feel the need to pay the wages of personnel that you didn't hire. However, to punish the server because you don't agree with tipping practices is ridiculous. The individual server did not institute tipping practices nor can he/she change them to better suit your liking.

If everyone in the US was required to wait tables for one month, no one would ever get a bad tip again AND every diner would be well behaved. I could tell stories that you wouldn't believe!! Suffice to say that servers put up with a tremendous amount of abuse not only from the customers but from the cooks and from the managers.
It's a really sucky job with few benifits, a miserable minimum wage, and no job security.

Irishdame wrote:

"Please always tip on tax because the gov't will tax the server on the FULL amount of their total sales, including tax"

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

A server is NOT taxed for tips they didn't receive. If your employer says you must be, then s/he better seek better advice from tax advisors.

http://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1244.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/page/0,...208,00.html#T3

Not only do you not report nor pay for tips you didn't receive, but you deduct from tips reported those tips you gave to others (busboy, bartender)

btw, I've worked "the floor", been hotel & restaurant controller, assistant manager, & now write accounting software used in restaurants & country clubs. Yes, serving is hard. So is my job, and sometimes the customer doesn't thank me, and sometimes doesn't pay me, which is usually easier to write off than to sue for. Things are tough all over and anyone not satisfied with their situation has the same choice: move!

You can tell on this thread who has waited on tables and who hasn't.

One of the best ways I've ever heard it put, to quote Jim Baker (the ex of Tammy Faye), "if you don't want to tip, stay home with a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter".

For a large party I can see why they add an automatic gratuity (I believe it should be adjustable though), I would have expected that, and even find it preferable. In many cases, one person isn't paying the entire bill but rather everyone is 'chipping in'. In these situations, almost inevitably you will have 1 or 2 people who do not include an adequate tip or include no tip at all. Even if everyone else leaves an adequate tip, it can significantly impact the overall percentage of the tip. I have on many occasions, as I'm sure others here have as well, put in more than my share to offset those that didn't tip. It's frustrating but at the same time you don't really want to say anything. So if they include the tip, it just makes it easier and you're not put in this situation.

Wow rb traveler, seems as I'm owed some money!! Every employer I ever had taxed me on the total amount including tax. And to think...I worked in this business for over 10 years.