for all those who think that the East india Company was a forerunner of Thomas Cook's:

http://www.britannica.com/topic/East-India-Company...

<I>for all those who think that the East india Company was a forerunner of Thomas Cook's:</I>

Nobody thinks that. Some of us just don't think that mercantilist expansion was the result of some great wanderlust among the masses.

No actually the colonization of many areas of the world was not the result of military expansionism - but of trade opportunities. The armies then followed/protected the merchants to those places where the greatest profits could be made.

Agree that the East India Company was the prime example.

And the tourists followed much later than even the armies.

<I>No actually the colonization of many areas of the world was not the result of military expansionism - but of trade opportunities. </I>

Google mercantilism. The East India Company was, from the beginning, part and parcel of British strategies in forging an empire.

The armies of East India were the first to tip incorrectly and wear socks with sandals.

I guess very few have read Terry Pratchett or seen the film with the first tourist "Two Flower" on Disk World.

Was he British, like Carl Pilkington or countless similar others or American, again like countless similar ones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwmLgjw3lGs

Since East India was taken by the British and West India by Americans, those of us, the voracious readers and imaginary imperialists had to manage with the likes of Disk World.

Another interesting point :

- According to statistics, huge numbers of books are made available every year in print and on the internet in America implying that a large proportion of Americans read. However, some polls and statistics also show that many americans do not make much use of what they have read or can remember even when and what they have last read.

Last week, there was an indication that e-book sales are down and traditional paper books are on the rise.

for all those who think that the East india Company was a forerunner of Thomas Cook's:

Nobody thinks that. Some of us just don't think that mercantilist expansion was the result of some great wanderlust among the masses.>>

oh, for a joke flag.

Caveat: off topic

<i>but the idea that Europeans, in general, "have enjoyed travelling <internationally> for centuries" is not really true.</i>

Not true.

Though firstly limited to the (very) affluent upper classes of the UK, the "Grand Tour" had been part of a (mostly young) gentleman's (not woman's) education from the Renaissance until the late 19th century.
It was more a coming of age issue than the beginning of continous international journeys, though.
One may understand that as it took months to years to complete such a journey with horse-drawn carriages.

Among German nobility, Goethe's Italian Journey and his travel diary had many (again, rich and noble) followers - probably the first Rick Steves moment when people started to visit places just because they got mentioned by a famous person in a book.

Later we had Interrail.

I find otherchelebi's assessment of Americans to be full of stereotypes, mostly incorrect ones. Especially these:

2. Americans have the best social scientists as a group in the world, . . . but they are also the ones who make the least use of these studies and the information gathered in terms of their "Pursuit of Happiness."

3. Americans like to be considered to be individuals but treat their employees as menial robots.

4. . . . What you earn is to show to others how much more successful(?) you are than they are even if your success is only measured in money, power and property.

5. Real friendship is not easy between Americans and is possible only if there is no monetary, hierarchical or business relationship. . .

7. Americans do not know what to pay someone for small chores when they have asked help. They will usually overpay or overtip and sometimes behave very miserly and act as if that person was required to assist them.


My answer to the OP's question is that Americans enjoy many different cultures and traditions.
It's impossible to lump Americans into categories as OC has done.
Every state in the union it's own unique personality.

Yes, verily.

Very perceptive.

Thanks, otherchelebi.

Real friendship not easy? And here I am, back in the US having dinner with friends I've had since I was 10 years old.

I am sorry that I am perceived as eating in some inferior way and that I somehow don't understand how to tip others for services rendered.

<i>What should a foreigner know about the US?</i>

It is impossible to keep US citizens on topic.

HTtY

I hope the person who may or may not insulted Dukey gets back to him in the next few months, so we may continue this conversation.

Why should an individual take umbrage on a very broad generalization based on personal experience is beyond my intellectual perception.

I would never consider any custom or tradition of eating inferior, since they are all based on religious beliefs, having access to implements, the types of food consumed or even better digestion.

And, I have to point out that I do not find Americans "touchy" or "paranoid" at all and a few cases of having come across such people will not change my view.

Dukey1: No one's perfect. :)

lol, OC.

OC, I did not even realize you were the culprit. I hope Dukey confirms this, because I never though Turks were paranoid (besides Erdogan.)

IMD - I'm pretty certain that OC was the culprit as well.

what do foreigners need to know about americans?

some of them can be a bit touchy and have long memories.

IMO a "foreigner" doesn't need to come here and criticize the way we eat, what we look like, how we speak, and all the rest of those rude things the same "foreigners" typically criticize "Americans" for doing.

Oh, and keep your voice down, too, so we can hear ourselves shouting at one another in restaurants.

Yes, a foreigner's opinion is worthless. So, I would suggest stop posting on any travel board that is not American, as by our own standard, it is intrusive and wrong, even it is right.

BTW, OC went to college in the States and has a daughter who lives in the States and visits frequently, otherwise he knows nothing of American customs and culture. So what would be the tipping point, citizenship? A test 90% of Americans born here would fail.

>>So what would be the tipping point,<<

You just hadda work "tipping" into the post.

I could have said that these times square with such xenophobic thoughts. Or I would not hop on such a trend. Or "Be quiet and shut your tourist trap."

<I>BTW, OC went to college in the States and has a daughter who lives in the States and visits frequently, otherwise he knows nothing of American customs and culture. </I>

I think people were responding to his statements, which were cliched and offensive. They weren't responding to a perceived lack of knowledge. Though, if they were, it is likely because his statements suggested he does lack knowledge.

The stuff about treating workers like menial robots was, frankly, beyond laughable. Frankly, it is probably worse that he didn't say it to offend, because it suggests a level of cluelessness that he should be embarrassed by.

This clueless person with graduate degrees in the social sciences was managing director of a large American Corporation for over ten years, employing people of different backgrounds and nationalities. he was also the chairman of the board of a very large Italian Company subsuidiary in addition to having worked in partnership with French, Dutch, german and Japanese companies.

As you can see, i have had the chance to compare management styles.

Unfortunately only ignorant people with psychological problems find critical observation offensive because of their need to be on the defensive at all times against real and imaginary threats to their misconstrued self image and archaic ethnic, religious, national, etc. group identification.

I strongly recommend that people should try to just be "human" rather than British, American, French, Catholic, Jew or Moslem.
You may then be able to laugh, even at yourself, rather than living in a state of hate and enmity to "the other"

I should note that I also teach graduate classes, give counseling and coach as well as mentoring high school and university students.

Finally, unlike you, I am only proud to be human, to be able to laugh and enjoy life, to be compassionate and to have empathy not because of any identification to great people, great nations, great religions or great races, great history, or blue blood.

I also very infrequently respond to insulting attacks and will not demean myself by name calling.

IMO this thread has been extremely useful in answering the OP's question. :)

The truth is the US is a study in severe contradictions. Since colonial days there has been deep rooted anti-intellectualism, racism, and other prejudice of all stripes. Of course this still exists today.

On the other hand we have produced some of the more exceptional universities in the world, won an extraordinary amount of Nobels, and have influenced the arts, high, low, and middle.

So basically whatever you say about the US is true.

<I>I also very infrequently respond to insulting attacks and will not demean myself by name calling.</I>

Nobody insulted you. Saying that you are misinformed is not an insult.

<I>Unfortunately only ignorant people with psychological problems find critical observation offensive because of their need to be on the defensive at all times against real and imaginary threats to their misconstrued self image and archaic ethnic, religious, national, etc. group identification. </I>

You seem awfully bent out of shape over the critical observation that you don't know what you are talking about. I will abstain from psychoanalysis as to why.

<I>This clueless person with graduate degrees in the social sciences was managing director of a large American Corporation for over ten years</I>

Then it would seem any responsibility for workers being treated like menial robots should fall to you, being managing director and all.

I do not believe that Fodorites are a a good statistical sample of Americans in general or any demographic or social sub-group.

But I find the people posting on Fodors threads and especially various sub-culture groups on the Lounge quite interesting and entertaining even when some are bereft of any sense of humor.

The country threads and the trip reports present very good examples of experienced and inexperienced travelers, all with a great deal to say to the readers, many extremely helpful and quite a few written with style and feeling.

A famous South African bridge player and writer, Victor Mollo wrote a series of very humorous and interesting bridge books, relating interrelationships between players at a club and the deals they played, giving an alias to each of the major players.
The first of these books was called "Bridge in the Menagerie.

I hope I will live long enough to put together such a volume and have it published based on my experiences on Fodors threads, with travel, love, envy, hate, oneupmanship, real and imaginary Americanism, Canadianism, Europianism and the strong ability to stick to one's guns no matter what ruling the conversation.

I promise that I will not write about any Fodorites whom I have met and that even if the reader recognizes himself or herself as one of the characters, he (she) will not be upset.

As an afterthought, I recommend Dukey1 and Travelgourmet to read some Bertrand Russel and Wittgenstein as well as Jerome K. Jerome and Georg Mikes.

But I find the people posting on Fodors threads and especially various sub-culture groups on the Lounge quite interesting and entertaining even when some are bereft of any sense of humor.>>

indeed OC. IME humour, like wine, has trouble travelling, especially over the Atlantic.

<i>IME humour, like wine, has trouble travelling, especially over the Atlantic.</i>

What does travel with ease, though, are people that spout BS and then claim "I was kidding!" OC's problem in this thread are not about jokes that fell flat. His problem is that he said some stupid stuff.

His problem is that he said some stupid stuff.>>

in which he would not be alone.

But I find the people posting on Fodors threads and especially various sub-culture groups on the Lounge quite interesting and entertaining even when some are bereft of any sense of humor.>>

indeed OC. IME humour, like wine, has trouble travelling, especially over the Atlantic.
________________

Worse than that, these boards have the the same humorless tone as those inhabited by supercilious oenophiles.

___________

Ann we have friends who live in Yorkshire and another that was a former presenter on the BEEB and while there are some cultural references that neither understand, for the most part we have a jolly old time.

eeee, bah gum, lad.

Can that be said with a Valley Girl inflection? eee, baaaah GUMMMM

no, more like Compo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlwp...3gP4RO&index=4

annhig, regarding "The Atlantic", you are right. It ceased to have any humour since the beginning of the 21st Century, when it also dropped fiction and literature, together with the word "Monthly" from its title.

Fortunately, "Playboy" magazine is now starting to take up the slack (not slag) by becoming apublisher of literary fiction in favour of erotic photographs.

What is America becoming?

>> It ceased to have any humour since the beginning of the 21st Century, when it also dropped fiction and literature,<<

Not true. It did drop its fiction issue, but it continues to run fiction and humor pieces. (What's "literature"?)