Thank you for the honorable mention IAMDonehere, Annhig and Kleeblat.

I am not an american as you read but have spent many years in America and continue to travel there once or more every year.

Here's some more perspectives:

1. Americans were the ones who adopted psychoanalysis and psychiatry en-masse and still support those professions more than any other peoples.

2. Americans have the best social scientists as a group in the world, have conducted the most meaningful and scientifically correct social science research including political, behavioral, social psychological, economic but they are also the ones who make the least use of these studies and the information gathered in terms of their "Pursuit of Happiness."

3. Americans like to be considered to be individuals but treat their employees as menial robots.

4. As opposed to the work place ethics and practice in most other countries, the higher you get in a corporate or hierarchical organization in America, the more hours and days you are supposed to work. What you earn is not there to give you time to phulosophize, understand and love yourself and others. What you earn is to show to others how much more successful(?) you are than they are even if your success is only measured in money, power and property.

5. Real friendship is not easy between Americans and is possible only if there is no monetary, hierarchical or business relationship; with the concept of hierarchy used in multiple meanings.

6. Americans follow the Islamic or Desert Arab custom or habit of usually preferring to eat with their right hands. Even when they use that hand for holding a knife for cutting, they will switch the implements when eating the piece that was cut. (Eat hand and s...t hand separation?)

7. Americans do not know what to pay someone for small chores when they have asked help. They will usually overpay or overtip and sometimes behave very miserly and act as if that person was required to assist them.

(I asked the doorman in our building in Chicago if he could assist assembling some IKEA stuff I had bought. He did, after work hours. My SIL wanted to pay him $100 for it. I paid him $50 and he was very happy. We became buddies, and I could call on his help again. If my Son-in-law had paid the 100, that would have been the end of that very expensive relationship: bad for both of us.)

Sorry for pitching in as a horrible(!) foreigner :)

Thanks for insighst OC.

99% of Americans do not know the origin of "Pursuit of happiness." It is an Enlightenment concept that means the ability to help others. It has nothing to do with the 20th and 21st concept of personal satisfaction.

I think otherchelebi's observations are so perceptive and interesting! Thank you for sharing them.

This will give you an insight into some segment of the US population.


https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/jimmy-kim...-sh&soc_trk=fb

<IMDonehere on Oct 14, 15 at 6:06pm
Let's try and stay away from political discussions. Just state your case and move on.>

So everyone except you must avoid talking politics, IMD?

Please ignore Newbe, she is very upset that this thread is both useful and civil.

Interesting observations otherchelebi, as someone who trained as a social scientist it's depressing to think about the policy ramifications of our work.

I found people were very friendly when I met them but it took a longer time than at home to forge profound friendship and I was taken aback by how little many people spoke about their families. I'm not saying this is typical, or American, only my own observation. I think it may have to do with the fact that so many people in Califrornia have moved here. Also it may have to do with my own expectations as my mother is from Ireland where family is inescapable!

NewbE Yes, I agree, there are considerable immigrant populations in middle and small town America, but demographically speaking the coasts and urban areas remain more racially diverse, with higher numbers of foreign born and second language speaking folks, NY, LA, Miami, SF, Chicago come immediately to mind.

Where shall I begin?

Family members are often found living in several different regions or states. I was asked by a young girl in Italy if we all lived in the same town as she had heard about families being located geographically apart. . My family is and we all fly a lot to see each other. It all is due to job transfers.

There are some genuinely hilarious cliches in this thread.

<I>But other people in other parts of the country may never have traveled more then 50 or 100 miles from home or met anyone of another race or religion. </I>

Wow. Just wow.

One thing I would like people to know is that most Americans aren't quite that condescending. And also that many New Yorkers are incredibly provincial and have a remarkably skewed view of the world.

I love this thread! so much in it I will agree with - we are a terribly naive, generous, hope-full people - and we can also be close hearted and intolerant in the extreme. A few other thoughts:
We move around a great deal. I was born in NYC, grew up in Arizona (after a brief stint in Oregon) went to school in Ohio, lived in Boston, graduate school in Philadelphia - settled there for 30 years (whew) and now live in New Mexico. On the other hand, in my community here in the four corners are native peoples (mostly Navajo) whose families have lived here for over a thousand years, and Hispanic families with over 400 years of history in this area.

And although for the most part we say we believe in equality and civil rights, our schools and communities are increasingly segregated and the gap between rich and poor is widening alarmingly with those at the bottom disproportionately people of color. We also have the highest percentage of people in prison of anywhere in the world (also disproportionately people of color). We share the death penalty with Saudi Arabia, Iran, N. Korea and China.

on the other hand - we truly value our freedom of speech and freedom of the press and our court system is truly committed with all its flaws to justice and fair trials (I remain in awe of our jury system). And what always gives me goosebumps (especially following so closely the recent events in Turkey) is that no matter how much we disagree with an election result, we believe in our process and we abide by it knowing that in four years we can try again. And this to me is priceless.

The best part of the USA IMHO is that we are a multiethnic nation of immigrants, and our national parks. If you come for a visit and have limited time - skip the cities, visit the treasures that are Acadia, Yellowstone, the Everglades, Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde, Arches...well I could go on an on - but come on in y'all and we'll make you welcome!

IMD, I feel sorry for you. You can't remain civil on your own thread. I'm outta here. Too bad, because it is a good thread, but it will degenerate because of you.

IMD, I feel sorry for you. You can't remain civil on your own thread. I'm outta here. Too bad, because it is a good thread, but it will degenerate because of you.
__________________________
Promise to leave?

You seem to be the only one with a problem with me. But that is your usual childish passive-agressive behavior. Start a fight and then pretend to be the victim with the hope destroying what is otherwise a useful and insightful topic.

Bye-bye. Maybe when they start Fodor's Junior, you can be the class president.

I'm the childish one? I contributed to your thread, and wish I hadn't. You only started it to pick fights. The Lounge is the place for you, but oh, that's right, you got banned for your rude ways, didn't you?

Now, now.........children!

Brings to mind the all-American phenomenon of youth films and TV series with teens, consumed (hopefully) only by teens.

Another subject for the social scientists?

Never trust any opinion that starts with: "I knew this one person who ..." or any variation thereof.

"looks as if there are as many opinions as there are americans!"



Sometimes even more.

There are exceptions to everything. For every trait described on this thread as being typically American, I can think of plenty of people who are not like that at all. Everything from friendliness, willingness to talk to strangers, relationships with employers and employees, openness to travel and to new ideas. I do not recognize anybody I know in some of these descriptions.

Treating employees as menial robots? Thankfully, nobody I know feels this way.

Eating with our right hands? I don't, I guess because I am left handed. There is no taboo on eating with the left hand. The switching hands thing is a custom that many people were taught, I was not, but it has to do with right handed people being more comfortable both using a knife and holding the fork in their right hand, I would imagine. And I imagine they use their preferred hand for the other tasks, there is no bathroom left hand habit, as far as I know, unless you are left handed.

I feel very safe. Many people I know do not lock their doors. But we don't live in a city, and when I did I felt much less carefree about safety. There are areas where people feel more safe and areas where they feel less safe.

Many, many people believe we spend far too much money on the military.

The influence of sport on people's lives varies but those I know who are quite interested in sports use it as a form of relaxation and recreation.

I don't know why the Kardashians are so popular. But I live in a bubble.

To the topics raised by Kleeblatt (who is also American):

why Americans eat and run: mostly because they have somewhere else to go. At the company I work for in Switzerland, my colleagues spend no more time at lunch than Americans normally do. Americans dining at non-chain restaurants and with no after-dinner plans often spend as much time lingering over their meal as the Swiss and Germans I dine with.

- why they love talking to tourists: Because Americans are friendly. They talk to each too, although on both counts, you may find Southerners more chatty than Vermonters.

- why there are so many kinds of churches and what's their popularity: The U.S. is a land of immigrants and many people belong to the church that their parents, grandparents, etc belonged to. My 18th century ancestors were Moravian; I'm Moravian too. FWIW, I was raised in a church that has always supported education, tolerance, and respect for women. Fra Diavalo, please explain how these beliefs count as "prejudices."

- how do they feel about foreigners. Depends on which American you ask. I have relatives who love learning more about other cultures; I also have a relative who can't stand any foreigners, esp Armenians (and he's from Wyoming, so WTf??).

- how do they feel about tourists: Well-behaved tourists who don't travel with chips on their shoulders about the U.S. are usually welcomed gladly. Of course, where there are large numbers of tourist clumps, you hear the same complaints that you would hear anywhere. But as others have posted, I do think many visitors to the U.S. vastly underestimate our diversity (both geographic and cultural) and the time it takes to get from place to place. Or how wild our weather can be. A French co-worker once witnessed an F3 tornado in Oklahoma. When asked to describe it, he just kept saying: Oh my god. Wow. That was...wow.
-
- how well do they know their neighbours. In villages and small towns, they know them well. In bedroom suburbs and big cities, they don't. Which is no different from our experience living in the UK, Germany, Belgium and Switzerland.

- how safe do they really feel: Most feel quite safe. Contrary to what a surprising number of Europeans believe, Americans are not all hiding behind their triple-locked doors with loaded weapons.

- what current topics are being discussed in their area: The weather. Local sports. Local politics. New businesses coming in. Old businesses leaving. When the road repairs will begin. When they will stop. The weird music kids listen to. (All topics I also hear discussed every morning on the tram I take to work in Basel.)

- why are the Kardashian's so popular? Don't know. Why are the Kardashians so popular on German cable TV?

- the influence of sport on their lives: From none to an excessive amount. You can often see the full range of influence within a single family.

- how do they view the world: Well, the U.S. and Canada are a pretty large chunk of land mass, so the U.S. is their primary focus. If Belgium were the size of the U.S., for example, most Belgians would probably think less about the Netherlands, France and Germany.

- how do they view their military and do they have a problem with the large expense of it: They support service personnel pretty whole-heartedly, partly from guilt about the shabby way too many returning Vietnam vets were treated. From the Americans I talk to regularly, they'd rather that more of the military budget was spent on improving VA hospitals and rather less spent on sending troops into places that have been in conflict for generations and will probably stay in conflict for many generations in the future.

Europeans also should take a break from patting themselves on the back so much for knowing another language or having passports. In the U.S. you can drive for thousands of miles and the official language will still be the one you spoke at home. The Danes, Dutch, Greeks, Italians, etc have no such luck. Also, Americans don't have to leave their homeland to find tropical beaches AND ski resorts AND wine regions AND large cities and museums, all world class. If the Alps, the Mediterranean beaches, and the French and Italian wine regions were all in the UK, for example, you'd see far fewer Brits with passports.

We have lots of different churches,places of worship,chapels
We are a free country.
Freedom
Free to worship whatever religion you
Believe in.
Free to love God.
Free to love our neighbor Even if he is
Different from all we are.

We are free to love without judgement.
God Bless The USA
Whatever God you worship Amen

I could not sleep without
God Bless us all
God please watch over beloved
Pope Francis
Our world needs this beloved Holy Father.
I have seen with my own eyes the love and change his eyes and words have
made in a short time.

God Please Bless us all with tour love
And protect the Holy Father Pope Francis
For he has reinforced my faith

i can see that it is difficult for some people to distinguish between pure objective observation and an ideological and emotional context of their perceptions.

Some see objective observation with no value judgements as a criticism of their adopted values and way of life.

Please look back and see that many posters have written what they have observed or thought and with absolutely no value judgements.

If some decide that this is a good chance for them to proselyte. So be it. But I hope that the foreign reader does not think that Americans are generally full of religious missionary zeal and love to advertise their beliefs or try to convert others.

In all my time in the United States nobody attempted to convert me even when I gave a few speeches at churches in Denver as a foreign student in the 1960s because I liked to speak even then and because that meant a free dinner and a $5 fee.My subjects had nothing to do with religion but received interest.

And for a more detailed perspective, please read my trip report covering seven or eight States and some interesting meetings with people you may know or feel like you know or wish you would know :

http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...pilgrimage.cfm

What the older traveler learns is that each place one visits is unique to the visitor and that uniqueness, whether it is a very personal one or one based on common knowledge, is what makes the trip enjoyable.

A traveler does not compare or criticize, just gathers up images, feelings, impressions, observations and stores them to share with himself or with others if and when it is possible.

Traveling in the United States is great fun, but remember, it is you who will make it enjoyable and not the people you meet and the places you visit even if they are the best or worst that your organizational and planning ability can arrange for you.

Here are some more pointers :

Driving is extremely easy, except for the signage and the long distances between motorway exits sometimes or the fact that some motorway exits are just that, exits and will not allow you to to get back on the motorway again.

The problem with driving is that in America is that in most States the scenery is very dull, the route is too straight, the road is extremely monotonous' meaning, you will feel tired and sleepy quicker than you would as opposed to driving most countries in Europe.

Other drivers follow traffic rules and regulations very well and expect that you will also and can be extremely upset if you make stupid stops or find yourself in the wrong lane for turns when trying to find your way around due to a faulty companion, memory, or GPS which has somehow avoided being recalled.

AND, very importantly, except for New Yorkers and recent immigrants, Americans are the best of all people I've met who follow the tenet, "innocent until proven guilty" and will trust you with no reservations. I cannot praise this characteristic sufficiently, especially coming from a culture where only about 10% of the population admit that they trust their neighbours and relatives.

Excellent post, WeisserTee.

Weisser Tee --

"Fra Diavalo, please explain how these beliefs count as "prejudices." "

I was referring to the sort of one-off churches led by self-ordained ministers which are prevalent throughout the rural and southern U.S., such as the Westboro Baptist Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

While not all are as malevolent, not all are led by people of good will.

" led by self-ordained ministers which are prevalent throughout the rural and southern U.S"

This kind of comment drives me crazy. Weirdo churches are all over. The last one in the news was located New Hartford, NY. They are every bit as weird as Westboro. Larger though. Westboro is one family living in a compound in Tulsa, OK - and most of the family has left the "church". The NY weirdos are living in an old school and have more "members" than Westboro.

http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index....ual_canni.html

<< how do they view the world: Well, the U.S. and Canada are a pretty large chunk of land mass, so the U.S. is their primary focus. If Belgium were the size of the U.S., for example, most Belgians would probably think less about the Netherlands, France and Germany. >>

with respect , Weisser Tee, that's a false comparison.You are comparing apples and pears when you judge Belgium v the US & Canada. Instead you should look at Europe which is the size [roughly] of the US - the vast majority of Europeans are far more interested in what is happening in the US/China/ /Australia than the average american is in what goes on in Europe or the rest of the world. You can see this if you just watch US news - the vast majority of it is about american issues, whereas virtually any UK news broadcast will contain a much higher proportion of foreign news.

<< Europeans also should take a break from patting themselves on the back so much for knowing another language or having passports. In the U.S. you can drive for thousands of miles and the official language will still be the one you spoke at home. The Danes, Dutch, Greeks, Italians, etc have no such luck.
Also, Americans don't have to leave their homeland to find tropical beaches AND ski resorts AND wine regions AND large cities and museums, all world class. If the Alps, the Mediterranean beaches, and the French and Italian wine regions were all in the UK, for example, you'd see far fewer Brits with passports.>>

France, Italy and Spain all contain all of those [the UK not so much] yet the french, italians and spanish all learn foreign languages and travel. And language learning has got nothing to do with an enthusiasm for travel - Brits are notoriously bad at it, the Dutch brilliant, yet the inhabitants of both countries are avid travellers.

I can understand why americans are somewhat insular, but I don't think that it's anything to be proud of.

By 2050, more than half of Americans will be people of color. And while most industrialized countries will have a severe aging problem by 2050, the US will not because of immigration. The aging problem is one of population replacement. For example, Japan has on the the worst where by 2050, they will have 25% less people and they will have more people over 85 than under the age of 3.

So a visitor, will see a country in change. And as Ann noted how will do you kno

American isolation is both a strength and a weakness. It has prevented our country from becoming a battle ground in major wars in which we fought, but at the same time, there is not an urgent need to learn foreign languages or cultures. And yes, there is an air of superiority for many over Mexico.

But, our border with Canada is the longest border in the world without a military presence. As we share a common heritage, basically speak the same language, steal their comics, and MANY Americans think of themselves as white Christian (as in Protestant) countries.


The issue of religion is curious. Richard Hofstadter in his 1963 Pulitzer Prize award winning book Anti-intellectualism in American Life states this characteristic began with the Puritans and is not a recent development.

As the world knows we have affinity for producing cultural garbage in mass quantities, middle brow entertainment, and literary fiction, world class dance and music groups. That is because our wealth allows us a portion of the population to spend time in these pursuits and disposable income supports it.

Probably our most important export is pop culture and movies as it gives the world, at once, a better understanding of us and a false one.

While there is a segment of the population who scorn intellectuals, the US

There is a rise of the number of atheists in the country and Hispanic Evangelicals. The

Yikes, I accidentally hit the wrong button. Sorry there will be some typos.

As for Ann, yes you will see a country in a transformation, as are many countries around the world, so it a time to remember for comparison rather than one for permanent impressions.

annhig - As for Europeans supposedly being avid travelers and Americans not so much, I would suspect that traveling from France to Spain or the Netherlands, etc. is a bit cheaper for Europeans as a whole, than someone from the Midwest in USA traveling to those countries. It takes much longer and is much more expensive. IOW, more difficult.

I remember some member of a European band (sorry, can't remember the name), telling the story of how he and his mates got in a car in Arizona and had to drive to Texas for their next gig. He was amazed that after 8 hours of driving when he got out, people still spoke the same language! It was very funny.

It is not only the actual distance but the perception of distance and the perception of cultural distance that keep the Americans away in addition to the very short annual leave they are granted by their employers.

annhig - As for Europeans supposedly being avid travelers and Americans not so much, I would suspect that traveling from France to Spain or the Netherlands, etc. is a bit cheaper for Europeans as a whole, than someone from the Midwest in USA traveling to those countries. It takes much longer and is much more expensive. IOW, more difficult.>>

diane - that may well be true now, but brits and the dutch have always travelled, hence their empires. and travel by europeans is how the modern americas, north and south, came into being.

<I>diane - that may well be true now, but brits and the dutch have always travelled, hence their empires.</I>

A) I think you have causation backwards.
B) Going to Mallorca or Malaga to lay about in the sun is more likely the result of a vitamin D deficiency, rather than some deep-rooted cultural affinity for exploring the world.

travelgoumet -Very funny!

And I doubt the British Empire started with Brits traveling. I think the armies took over and then the tourists followed.

The Europeans who came here centuries ago were running away from Europe. I doubt it was for the love of traveling.

Using that logic, Genghis Khan was a great tourist who killed 10% of the world's population when his tea was not served properly. Preceded my Alexander who made some of hid tourists marry the locals.

"The Europeans who came here centuries ago were running away from Europe. I doubt it was for the love of traveling."

LOL.

Yeah, it was more of an "OMG, this place is terrible. Let's get on a tiny boat, sail off into the unknown and if we make it to __________ (fill in the blank with some far-flung place in the Empire), hopefully we'll be able to survive the first few winters, not starve to death, and make a new life for ourselves"

If you've ever been to the Rigi in Switzerland, you will probably have heard of how it was a huge tourist magnet at the turn of the century. Huge hotels existed and tourists were coming from all over.

Travel and immigrating should not be confused. Europeans (especially the affluent) have enjoyed travelling for centuries.

Just ask Mark Twain.

<i>Travel and immigrating should not be confused.</i>

Nor should travel patterns from the turn of the century and today.

<i>Europeans (especially the affluent) have enjoyed travelling for centuries.</i>

Well that isn't really true. I mean, the idea that affluent people are more likely to travel (and have been more likely to travel) is true, but the idea that Europeans, in general, "have enjoyed travelling <internationally> for <u>centuries</u>" is not really true.

<i>If you've ever been to the Rigi in Switzerland, you will probably have heard of how it was a huge tourist magnet at the turn of the century. Huge hotels existed and tourists were coming from all over.</i>

And the same is true of many places in the US and Canada. Indeed, I would note that Rigi fits perfectly into the statement "Americans don't have to leave their homeland to find tropical beaches AND ski resorts AND wine regions AND large cities and museums, all world class." Why would Americans travel to Rigi when they can go to their own mountain resorts, unless they are evading taxes or laundering money?

And I doubt the British Empire started with Brits traveling. I think the armies took over and then the tourists followed.>>

Ever heard of the British East India company?

<i>And I doubt the British Empire started with Brits traveling. I think the armies took over and then the tourists followed.>>

Ever heard of the British East India company?</i>

Was the British East India Company a travel agency?

Was the British East India Company a travel agency?
____
Most travel agencies do not have private armies.