What do you do when someone is aggressively pursuing a GRATUITY?
 

We've encountered this situation numerous times during our travels, and we are just wondering what other people do about it. If you have already paid for a service, such as a shuttle bus or a guided tour, and the provider of that service drops verbal hints or even goes as far as holding out their hand for a gratuity, what do you do? <BR> <BR>My husband will inevitably reach into his wallet, but I feel really irritated when I've paid for a service and am then pressured by service personnel to give them even more money. To me, a gratuity is something I give freely, if I feel the service warrants it, not because someone has their palm out in front of my face. I'm not the Queen tossing coins to the little people, for heaven's sake, just an average, middle-class person trying to vacation without breaking the bank or being asked to provide a living to service personnel because their employers won't pay them a living wage. <BR> <BR>In one instance we paid an admission fee, a camera fee, a parking fee, a tour fee, and were then held captive by the tour guide who told the group a sob story about how he scraped by earning a living on his tips, and suggested that everyone "help him out." <BR> <BR>We always get into an argument over this. What do the rest of you do?

Its a tough call: I usually give a small tip unless I the quality of the service was subpar; if the tippee was very helpful or informative etc I tip far more generously. I do not think that because you are not the queen or are middle-class that is particularly relevant. Tipping is a cost of traveling. I do think that the hard sell such as the tour guide provided unless it was done in a charming fashion should be rewarded---just give according to th e quality of the service. You and your spouse should just reach a compromise beforehand.

JM, might I ask if the example you gave was at the Taos Pueblo? The same thing happened to us there. However, we were very touched by that particular tour guide and dh gave her a nice tip. We weren't too happy however, that we payed to take some pics of the residents, then saw others freely snapping away, people we knew hadn't payed.

JM <BR>I feel the same way and my husband used to be just like yours. Recently be both agreed that only very excepitional service will be rewarded.

the key word here is "aggressively". A few years ago dh and I were visiting "Au Sable Chasm" in northeastern New York. Part of the tour involved a short boat ride. There was a large group of non-English speaking tourists that day, and dh and I were the only English speaking people on the boat. A boy of about 12 years of age volunteered to translate for his people. The driver of the boat said to the boy "be sure to tell them to give me a tip". The boy said "I don't know how to translate that". Boater said "well, do you know how to translate gratuity"? Boy said no. Boater became obviously annoyed with young boy. When the boat landed, boater helped dh and I off first (we were in 6th or 7th seat back) and held out his hand. We deliberately looked the other way. I kind of felt guilty, but the boater was so aggressive to the young boy that we didn't feel a tip was in order.

I understand your frustration. However, the fact of the matter is that many of these people DO rely on tips for income and ARE paid well below a living wage because they get tips. I have seen service people becoming more aggressive because more people who travel are not educated on tipping. Just like you need to tip a wait person in a restaurant, you need to budget to tip tour guides, etc.

Our grandson was a waiter for Russian Tea Room in NY some years agoand every night he brought home between $400 and $500. He worked 5 days a week making more than $2,000 in tips only. After that he was hired by another restaurant where he got even more. Then he finished medical school and right now is making much less at least for a while.

Whilst I always tip when I feel it is warranted the fact remains that people should be paid a fair wage/salary for the job they do. They should not have to rely on handouts ( charity ) from strangers which is really what 'tips' are.

I tought guides always get tipped. Am I wrong? <BR>

I also wondered if this occurred at the taos pueblo, probably the most obnoxious <BR>tipping exoerience of all time.

TIPS=TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE <BR>They are a reward for providing a service above the norm. Unforunately, tips are not universal. I agree that everyone should be paid a decent wage, but what exactly is that? In the US it is $5.35 an hour. Tips on top of that is IMO a decent wage. Subtle hints are tacky. Holding your hand out is sleazy. And do not come after me if you think I did not give you enough!! <BR>If you deserve a tip you get one. PERIOD&gt;&gt;&gt;

I agree that it is annoying to be aggressively pursued for a tip, but it is true that in many areas service personnel are NOT paid a living wage--and please don't confuse the issue by including waiters in high-end restaurants here! I think most guides do expect a tip, and I am not totally uncomfortable if a suggested amount is mentioned, especially if the tour was interesting. We stayed in a B&B in Oaxaca, Mexico, which was very enjoyable. However, the last few days of our stay were marred by our breakfast waiter's constant reminders about tipping at the end of our stay, who to include, etc. Again, I don't enjoy being solicited, but I do think it is expected and mostly justified. Of course, in a perfect world employers would set the charges high enough to eliminate the need for tipping, instead of it being kind of a hidden charge to the customers.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. <BR> <BR>I wasn't going to mention Taos Pueblo by name, but obviously other people have had the same experience. After paying fee upon fee we were hearded into the pueblo church along with the rest of the group, the doors closed behind us, and before the tour had even STARTED the guide spent ten minutes telling everyone how and why they should tip him. I can tell you that I was not the only one with raised eyebrows and and a feeling of annoyance - it was written all over everyones' faces. But this tops it all -- at the end of the tour the guide launched into his tipping pitch again, and everyone, including me, scattered as rapidly as possible to take photos of the pueblo. Only my husband stayed behind and chatted with the guide. When he caught up with me he told me the guide was on a full scholarship to USC, which is someplace that I could certainly never afford to attend myself or send my own kids. Then I learned that DH tipped him! Grrrrr... <BR> <BR>Let me also explain about the "Queen tossing coins" comment, as it is a family thing. As a teenager, DH traveled with his parents to Australia to visit relatives. They left a tip on the table of a restaurant, and as they walked away, the waiter chased them down and returned the money, saying they didn't accept tips! DH's Australian relatives later explained to them that in that country, tipping is the equivalent of the monarch tossing coins to the "little people" and the Australians are too proud for that. Don't know if that is still the custom there but it was when DH was a teen. <BR> <BR>Let me also say that I have no problem tipping in a restaurant or so forth, but it seems that everyone has their hand out these days for everything, no matter what it is! I mean, what next, do I give the telephone operator my credit card so she can give herself a tip for providing me with a service? Do I tip every clerk at every counter in every store for their service? We once boarded a shuttle bus from an airport to the rental car area, because by design, the rental cars were several miles from the airport. We had no other way to get there. The minute we stepped aboard the bus the driver began not-so-subtley badgering us for a tip and continued the entire time. <BR> <BR>I worked in the service industry as a college student and would never in a million years have imagined badgering a customer to give me money. I work in a service-oriented position right now, and I deal with the public every day, but I certainly do not expect to be tipped for helping people. <BR> <BR>I personally equate this aggressive style of tip soliciting with aggressive pandhandling -- no difference. Thanks for your input, looking forward to reading more comments.

If I may use thread to ask something I've always rather wondered about... <BR>What about when all you have to bring to your hotel room is a light carry-on and the bell boy Insists on helping with it? Unless I have alot of luggage I am certainly capable of carrying my own carry-on to my room and opening the door myself. I will usually let them know I'm fine on my own and go about my business, but sometimes they just continue to insist upon helping me. In these cases I usually do not tip because I have already told them I don't need help. Do the hotels insist that these folks carry your bags or are these particular bell boys just aggresively pushing their services in hopes of making you feel quilty and getting a tip, regardless?

If someone is angling for a tip I give them one -- a verbal one. And the tip is: don't harass your customers for tips. You're far more likely to "catch flies with honey than vinegar" as we like to say in the South.

The answer to your question about the bellmen at hotels is yes. The hotels feel they are paying - although below min wage - the bellmen and want them to work, even if it is just a small bag. Also, many hotels use the bellmen as a tour guide to make sure you get to your room without getting lost (think Opryland Hotel) and to promote the hotel restaurants, shops, etc. <BR> The bellmen learn very quickly that if they don't carry something, they don't get tips.

A good portion of the bellmen's income comes from tips, but no, hotels do not insist that they carry your bags. We always do our own if we just have a couple of small things (and my husband works for a hotel company and runs a 500 room hotel). <BR> <BR>As for the restaurant, ice machine, facilities, and exit locations spiel, if you are staying in a AAA rated hotel, they insist that the bellman discuss all those things. If they fail to in front of one of AAA's anonymous inspectors, they are marked down for the omission! I know it may sound like he's "fishing" when he offers to fill your ice bucket, but he's not. If the offer is left out...oops another black mark.

My feeling is that I am not the employer of these people, so why the hell should I be paying their salaries? What a con game, that employers can pay service personnel next to nothing and expect their customers to not only foot the bill for rooms or food, but to pay the employees as well. Australia sounds like it has the right idea.

Thanks Jim well stated & if we all just stopped tipping what then, well the owners who do not pay their people enough without tips would probably not have any employees until they did at which time I'm sure the over all prices would go up,but then I would have the choice to deal with these people or not at least on an up front basis. <BR> The reason that a company uses tipped employees is to save on insurance (unemployment,workmans comp,etc) & if there is any money to be lost it is the employees not the employers.

We had a similar experience to the one described above on a Grayline day tour from Montreal to the Laurentians. The bus driver was emphatic about tipping. Most of the folks were Japanese. He went looking for the one who spoke the best English and directed that person to explain to all the others regarding tipping. He then followed up to ensure everyone had been told. And, the tour included a short boat tour, whereupon he re-emphasized tipping. I wouldn't have minded if he had made a brief announcement and requested one of the Japanese people to translate this to the others. But, I thought the over-emphasis and number of mentions was in very poor taste. Grayline tours are no bargain. And, this is the only driver we've encountered who "begged for tips". To me, tips for these services are optional. You tip when you've received extraordinary service. It's one thing to mention "gratuities are appreciated", but another to make everyone feel obligated, which in the case of our tour, had the opposite effect.

I once had a roommate who worked as a bartender and food server. She worked full time, was paid minimum wage, and had no health insurance or benefits of any kind. As a matter of fact, she moved to California because she had heard they had "socialized medicine" and she figured she could get free health care. Guess what? She did! So not only are all you California customers paying the salaries of service workers, you're paying for their health care too, in the form of your taxes for MediCal. And all this while Big Business posts every increasing profits. Hey, if you had practically no labor costs, you could post big profits too!

Note to self: move outta socialist California ASAP. Try to find pure capitalist state. Oh wait, that's when they use OPM - Other People's Money. So it would just be more of the same, wouldn't it? I pay outrageous premiums for nonexistent HMO care while people who earn untaxed tips get medical care! Hmmmm...another note to self: become a cab driver.

How is this for a tipping shake-down? In my town, one is not permitted to take the grocery cart from the store to the car to load the grocery cart. You are to leave the cart at the curb and drive up, where employees will load your car. You are expected to tip, even though I would actually prefer to wheel my cart to my car and load it myself. So after clipping coupons to pinch pennies, I am expected to give the savings to the store employee. <BR> <BR>Also, I once needed the housekeeping staff to bring me an iron because the one in the room was broken. They clearly expected to be tipped for this special service.

ttt

this is unrelated but what is "DH" as JM continualy referred to someone?<BR><BR>Thanks for the lingo update

It means "dear husband", I believe.

I just read through this entire thread and couldn't believe how civil it was. Nobody was insulting each other. Then finally I realized it was a year and a half old. I guess we have changed. This thread would have had to be deleted due to the name calling that would have gone on if it were new.

reader, sorry you feel that way, hope that's not always the case. <BR><BR>I'm glad to know after reading through this that I'm not the only one who feels annoyed with the ever-increasing expectation of gratuities nowadays. In Europe, being a server is a real profession, not something you do for beer money in college. They are paid a living wage and they know all about food and wine. And their gratuity is included with the overall price of the meal. Much more civilized.

You should know beforehand whether a tip is included in the trip, restaurant, bus, etc. If it is, and there was no special service, stand your ground, and refuse to give an extra tip. Smile and say thank you. Sure, the service person needs it more than you do, but so do most of the people walking down the street. Don't feel guilty if you have paid your fair share.

This older thread seems to be running concurrently with a newer one, although the new one is focusing on hair stylist tipping.

Dear It is worse,<BR><BR>Your post reminded me of the town where I used to live. Not all of the grocery stores had drive-up loading (some did), but they all were very aggresive in having the bagger push the cart to your car and help you load it. There was no way to shake them.<BR><BR>They were not allowed to take tips, but one particular bagger tried to evangelize me every time. Somehow, being asked about my relationship with Jesus on the grocery store lot made me dread getting him as a bagger, to the point where I stood in longer lines to avoid him.

ttt

While in Costa Rica, I had to pay a set $100. cab fare back to the airport from where I was staying. It was a 2 1/2 hour ride. I didnt give any tip to the driver because I though I already payed quite a bit. I couldnt manage to catch the bus which would have been $5. or the van service of $20. I did buy the driver lunch however. When he left me off at the airport , I had the feeling that he was waiting for a tip. Also while I was in Costa Rica I went on a few tours which were pretty pricey. I am sure that there was a gratuity built in. I did tip once and the second time I did not. I do feel that if you pay $79. already, you shouldnt have to pay anything there after.

Service thesedays is horrible...I want to give someone 15% but the service generally warrants between 2-3% from my wallet

Its your money, if you want to give a tip, give one, if not, don't.<BR><BR>If you are going to be staying somewhere for a while, its probably good insurance to tip (bribe) the bell hop with a good 2-3 bucks per bag tip on the way in. Word gets around. Don't feel obligated to tip for every little ditty.<BR><BR>Can some one tip me for posting this by the way? I have two kids going to college in 7-10 years and am trying to save.

Once flew late night into Los Angeles and needed a cab ride to meet wife at Marina Del Ray. Broke up the "cabbie talk" at the taxistand (discussing whatever game of the day was), put my small carryon in the trunk, and told him my hotel destination and got in the car.<BR><BR>The cab driver moaned the whole way because I was taking him WAY out of his normal route. (Excuse me, he was at the AIRPORT.) He would now be tied up for about an hour or more, away from LA and more frequent taxi hailers and better lucrative opportunities. (This is what -- a 15-20 mile drive?) As he moaned about traffic (there was NONE) and the meter clocked more miles (and money), I read the posted fares, complete with taxes on this gas or that clean air bill and what appeared to be tipping "rules". (That didn't look gov't issue!)<BR><BR>When we arrived at destination, I got out and gave him money plus a 15% tip. He kept that hand out and said the full fare again and wasn't I going to tip him. I pointed out it was. He demanded a "tip that's right" and told me my math was off. I told him he was right... I must've made a mistake. I need the change. As I said that, I addressed him by name, permit/license number, cab company, etc. very loudly by the hotel bag boys. He grumbled and got back in his taxi as I began mock yelling "Thief!"<BR><BR>Or so the story goes as I remember it...

First I should note that I am normally a generous tipper. I make a very good living and I see it as my own way of helping out the hardworking taxi drivers, waitstaff and cleaning ladies (etc.) who make my life easier.<BR><BR>However, I recently was extremely offended when taking a car service to the airport: I used a credit card to pay and the driver handed me the slip and said "just fill in 20 percent of the total right there". Please note this is BEFORE he drove me to the airport so I had no idea if I would be getting an acceptable ride (p.s. he proceeding to very nearly get in a major accident on the way). HEL-LO! It's when tipping is requested specifically rather than seen as a bonus for good service when I think things get out of hand.<BR><BR>Marlena<BR>NYC

ttt

Why the need to top ANOTHER tipping thread? &gt;2 years old at that. Too stupid to start a new one?<BR><BR>Or are you just some horses ass?

I love these tip stories! Anybody ever been chased down for a larger tip? Happened to us when we left 15% for a waitress and she thought she deserved 20%. Complained to the management but doubt it did much good.