WEst Coast WINTER holiday - 5 weeks driving.
 

Hi, I am very new to this site and the whole idea of posting a message.

I read, with great interest, the posts made by Shanek on his family trip down the PCH of West USA.
We too are a family from Australia (my husband Jon, my two sons Ryan(10) and Luke (9) and me, Kym) doing a driving trip of 4 weeks, starting in Seattle and ending in Los Angeles. I would like to give you some details, and would so appreciate any advice that can be offered. My biggest dilemma is my unfamiliarity with which roads are passable in the north-west areas in winter, so therefore, what we can realistically get to.

We arrive on Dec 20th into Seattle, and hire a car to drive out to the Wenatchee area (Leavenworth to be precise) where we are staying for 5 days over Christmas - to give my sons their first white Christmas (hopefully!).
The next date I need to give is Jan 23rd, when we fly out of LA for Australia. Between then, is the big road trip. I am aware that we will experience a lot of snow in Washington, and really, my main focus is on a trip down the beautiful coast to LA, with a week in Vegas added in, so we can see the Hoover Dam and Grand Canyon.

Is it possible to get to Yosemite in winter, and would we be able to do that by crossing from the Wenatchee area. I figure we will then have to double-back to begin our trip down the coast. I have travelled by road from San Francisco to San Simeon and was so totally blown away by the beauty of the coast. It became the driving force behind my plans to take my family over and repeat the experience.

My sons are young and very active, so we would like to visit theme parks, but also national parks and places that have some historical significance that they would find interesting.
Also, do you think i will need to book accommodation before we set out, as this creates a whole new thing to consider. At the moment, we are not locked into any particular dates where we have to be at certain times, but this would clearly change if I had to pre-book accomm and decide ahead of time, how long to stay in certain places.

I have been researching this trip for almost 6 months, I actually booked our 'cabin in the snow' in November of 2012! But, please forgive me any errors i have made or will make in future posts, about where places are and the distances/roads etc that are involved in getting there!
You are an amazing group of people, giving up your time and energy to answer questions from total stangers. But, it is very appreciated.

REgards, Kym

Kym again. WE are actually driving for about 3 1/2 weeks, not five. That is our total time away.

There may be some delays, but you will be able to get around. Ask your car rental company about chains for the ice and snow.

Here is a possibile itinerary: From Leavenworth drive to Maryhill on the Columbia River and then on WA-14 to the bridge at Hood River Oregon. Cross the river and continue to Multnomah Falls and the Historic Columbia River Highway. Spend the night in Portland. Drive to Cannon Beach on the Oregon Coast and then down the coast to Brookings, the redwoods in Northern California, and on to the Sonoma and Napa Valleys and San Francisco. Take a detour to Yosemite and then drive Highway 1 from Monterey to Malibu--there is much to do along the way including the Hearst "Castle" in San Simeon. Los Angeles has Hollywood, studio tours, great museums of all kinds, Venice Beach, etc. and in the LA vicinity are theme parks of all kinds. South of LA is Orange County with its many piers, surfers, etc. and then San Diego with more theme parks, a great zoo, and beaches.

Welcome to America, and enjoy.

HTtY

I hope that you luck out and have a little snow in Leavenworth.
http://leavenworthchristmaslighting.com/
Coastal Washington and coastal Oregon are quite temperate. Snow on the coast is quite rare.
Try to get to Crater Lake via the south entrance if you want to see a beautiful place with snow.

One thing to keep in mind is that it will be the rainy season in California and to have a plan in case it's pouring while you're traveling. This is especially important along the coast - saying around Redwood National and State Parks. Areas there get 100 inches or so of rain yearly and almost all of that rain is during the winter.

If you go inland to areas in the Sierra Nevada such as Yosemite - which is absolutely gorgeous in the winter - you'll need a backup plan in case roads are closed due to snow.

<<arrive on Dec 20th into Seattle, and hire a car to drive out to the Wenatchee area (Leavenworth to be precise) where we are staying for 5 days over Christmas>>

That's a delightful idea (I'm in Seattle). I hope you have a wonderful time. Sorry can't help much with the specifics of your driving trip other than to say it sounds like a fantastic time.

Thank you for your replies. We are going to hope and pray we don't get rained out! I am a teacher so our Summer holidays are over Christmas so any extended holiday has to be taken then . I knew it was the wet season but ... No choice sadly! Otherwise, all my photos will have us in raincoats!!

I live in California and really I do not consider December to be our rainy season. For us it usually starts raining around late January - April. We are in a severe drought right now so not much rain at all these past years. Do not let the thought of 'rainy season' scare you off. The rain is pretty sad here compared to other places.

Your trip sounds great. Don't miss the Monterey Bay Aquarium in Monterey. The kids will love it. The redwoods in Northern Ca are not to be missed.

Thank you Michele_d, that gives me encouragement. We are sooo excited about the trip and I have been planning it for 2 years. It is just lovely that it is this year!! Finally. May I ask, would I get to Yosemite from San Francisco or is it higher up than that?

I have heard so much about the redwoods and they are most definitely on our itinerary. I have made a note about the Aquarium in Monterey. sounds great.

I would really love some help with planning which route to take. We begin in the Seattle area and fly out from LA. We would like to include the entire West coast between those 2 destinatinos, but also add in the drive to Yosemite (snow/roads permitting)and to Vegas. We would like to do a helpicopter ride out to the Grand Canyon as a day trip. Also, Monument Valley sounds worth driving through. I am not really sure how to inclue all this in one trip without doubling back at some stage. We are on the road from Dec 27th to about the 18th of Jan, where we will plan then on spending a week or so in LA to see all the attractions there.
Any advice would be much appreciated. Of course, any suggestions about how long to spend in places or whether to try for a new city/town every 2 days would be great too.
Thanks everyone,
Kym

The coast can be rainy (mountains snowy) and don't forget that the daylight hours are very short, so don't over-plan.

I would folloy HTTY's general itinerary, with the proviso that you build in a couple of just-in-case days in the event you encounter really awful conditions, like an ice storm in the Columbia Gorge, or one of the rare, but quite paralyzing, snowstorms in Seattle or Portland that can occur at that time of year. Also understand that most hire/rental car companies will not allow tire chains, so that will also severely limit your access to mountainous national parks. Stick to the coast when possible.

It can be wet on the coast, but also quite glorious. Here are some snapshots from a trip we took from Seattle to southern California in January of last year.

Southern Oregon coast

http://gardyloo.us/20130116_27a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/20130116_84HD1a.jpg

California redwoods (car for scale)

http://gardyloo.us/20130117_57a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/20130117_51a.JPG

Monterey aquarium (a must-see for the kids)

http://gardyloo.us/0118-6a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/0118-4a.JPG

Monarch butterflies, Pacific Grove (Monterey)

http://gardyloo.us/20130124_155a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/20130124_187a.JPG

Big Sur

http://gardyloo.us/20130119_61H1a.jpg

Elephant seal colony, San Simeon

http://gardyloo.us/20130124_7a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/20130119_90a.JPG
http://gardyloo.us/20130119_121a.JPG

Mission Santa Barbara, 1826

http://gardyloo.us/20110205_8a.JPG (pic taken 2011).

WOW!! Amazing pics! I hope you have put them into a calendar!
Thanks for your input. I do remember reading somewhere about not putting snow chains on rental cars, so that will definitely rule out Yosemite I should think. What a shame.

Don't rule out Yosemite. It is a must do!

Is there a way to do Yosemite in winter, given we will have a rental car and be unalbe to apply snow chains?

It depends on when the first big snowstorm happens in Yosemite.
You won't need chains to get to the south entrance of Crater Lake. They keep it plowed even with a rotary plow if required.
If you can get there on Saturday or Sunday, try to tske the Ranger led snowshoe hike. http://www.nps.gov/crla/parknews/ran...ional-park.htm
Expect the hikes to resume sometime in December 2014.
Expect the coastal area to be rainy and blustery although you could luck out and have nice weather.

<We would like to include the entire West coast between those 2 destinatinos, but also add in the drive to Yosemite (snow/roads permitting)and to Vegas. We would like to do a helpicopter ride out to the Grand Canyon as a day trip. Also, Monument Valley sounds worth driving through.>

Now you are trying to do too much IMO. That would leave you one week for the drive down the coast from Seattle to LA which is not enough time. One week in LA. And one week for Yosemite, Vegas, Grand Canyon daytrip and all the driving to get there and back. The West Coast is huge and a lot of miles are involved. I personally would concentrate on Washington, Oregon and CA. There is enough to do there for months on end.

Let me offer one additional thought. While Leavenworth is fine for your Christmas stay, the drive from Seattle over Stevens Pass in late December can be pretty hairy, especially for people who might not be familiar with winter driving conditions, and who might be jet-lagged and driving on the "wrong" side of the road to boot. In the rain. Or the snow. Or in the dark.

Instead, consider flying into Wenatchee (EAT) and driving to Leavenworth from there. Return flights (say 20-26 Dec.) from Seattle are around US$160, but it would save over a day's (unpleasant) driving, and being on the east side of the Cascades (same as Leavenworth) the chances of nasty driving conditions would be lessened. It's a very easy (30-40 min.) drive from the airport to Leavenworth, and a short-term car hire from EAT would probably be cheaper on a day-to-day basis than from SEA.

Then fly back to Seattle and start your road trip here, without worrying about holiday-weekend traffic, skiers trying to get to/from the slopes, or lousy weather on busy mountain roads.

Ditch the helicopter trip, the trips from Las Vegas to Grand Canyon take you to tourist trap Grand Canyon West (ripoff and expensive). You can drive to Grand Canyon and stay overnight, it is really to far for a day trip (5 hours each way), or if time does not permit, take a fixed wing plane to Grand Canyon South Rim. Have a great trip.

Kymjon, just want to make sure that <I>Washington's</i> weather has been conveyed accurately to you:

(nobody has mis-communicated our weather, but it hasn't been ideally clarified for somebody likely seeing a 'flat' map from across the world)

SO, using this map: http://www.bentler.us/western-washin...s/default.aspx

The entire length of the <I>Cascade Mountain Range</i> (within Washington) should be <b>expected</b> to be prohibiting, for reasons of winter snow. The main, most reliable east-west passage through those mountains is <I>Interstate 90</i>, which is kept mostly bare when not immediately impacted by winter weather.

The very best and most scenic routes from east-to-west tend to be <I>closed</i> for most or all of the winter months.

The Olympic Mountain Range, to the west of Seattle, is generally snowy all winter as well... (not that I sense you to be heading there).

<b>The areas in between the two</b>, and including much of the path between Vancouver, Canada and Vancouver, Washington (Portland, Oregon) don't often get snow at all. (highest elevations in Seattle might get snow on 4 or 5 days in a typical winter) (more in the outlying areas)

So as you have laid-out your dates quite suitably, it seems reasonable to anticipate your being able to get over to <I>Leavenworth</i> between Dec. 20 and Christmas. There is no other way to sensibly plan than to create a back-up idea in the event you can't get from Seattle to Leavenworth for a day or two, due to weather. (You might land and find Seattle <I><b>paralyzed</b> (mostly by fear{ours, not yours}, rather than the actual amount of snow on the ground)</i> and then find it necessary to stay in the Seattle area for a day or two before trekking east toward Leavenworth).

Upon your later departure from Leavenworth, for pure winter scenery, I don't think that the path toward the south is too much better, or worse, on the west side of the <I>Cascade Mountains</i> vs. the east side. <b>And if you know that the weather IN those mountains is bad</b>, then it would be sensible to stay east and not have to pass through them.

The worse the weather is anticipated to be, <b>the more you will focus on <I>Interstate 90</i> as your best chance for getting across the mountains in either direction</b>. And just THAT drive alone, for people not used to snow, will be quite enough to gain the full effect.

(FYI - the south face of <I>Mount Rainier</i> is <I>the snowiest place on earth <b>where regular measurements are recorded</b></i> ... but again, the "<I>Interstate 5 corridor</i>" between Seattle and Portland is easily passable on all but a very few days each year.)

(Here's a precipitation map for the west coast of the USA: http://www.skimountaineer.com/Cascad...cipMap.Med.gif - most north-to-south travel is in the green areas along that <I>"Interstate 5 corridor"</i> )

So, <b>December 27 - Jan. 18</b> for making your path from Washington State down to Los Angeles...

Good to have several days on the ground to acclimate and figure out what time zone/hemisphere you're in, before driving off toward the south.

If weather keeps you to the east of the Cascades for your path toward Oregon, then indeed, as was mentioned earlier, take in the Columbia Gorge and press on toward Portland via <I>Multnomah Falls</i>, etc.

IF the weather permits passage from Leavenworth back to Seattle, then you probably owe it to yourself to spend a couple of days (here)... as it wouldn't be right to have flown into Seattle from so far away, and not spent <I>any</i> time (here).

Upon reaching the Portland area along Interstate 5, you should probably invest the time to see Multnomah Falls from the western approach, and at least gain a sense for <I>The Columbia Gorge</i>. (read at glaciallakemissoula.org for more understanding of the Columbia Gorge).

Were it summer, or at least not the dead of winter, the <I>Oregon Coast</i> would be a natural, but in this case you might head that way mainly to avoid possible weather delays/problems in far-southern Oregon and northern California too.

For extremely-southern Oregon weather/driving concerns along Interstate 5, familiarize yourself with <I>Siskiyou Summit</i>, which is the area of main concern with regard to the challenges of driving Interstate 5 from Seattle to California.

While Portland, Oregon has been known to have worse winter weather than does Seattle (for less <I>protection</i> from ocean weather by mountains to the west), the path from Seattle to central Oregon along Interstate 5 is seldom more than gentle hills and valleys.

In the event of extremely forbidding weather where Interstate 5 meets the California/Oregon border, you would drive toward the coast and stay on the coast highway, which threatens with only wind and rain (each potentially severe) rather than stay on the inland path.

It probably isn't an outlandish move to consider crossing Oregon on the EAST side of the mountains, which would put you in close proximity to Crater Lake, but just keep in mind that getting back and forth from east to west, across the mountains, is a steady challenge.

<b>So much</b> depends on the weather, that to play it by ear upon your arrival isn't a bad idea. Shouldn't be any problem getting lodging on the fly during that period of time (though do make arrangements for New Year's Eve, just in case...)

Seattle and Portland, during your window, will either be rainy, grey, and chilly... or downright <i>cold</i> and sunny. (We could bet on the former, even from this far out)

I just... think that during the winter, to stay and make a go of both <I>Seattle and Portland</i> for a couple of nights each is likely to afford more substance than might scenic treks out into the hinterlands which will be reduced in quality by rain or snow.

Northern California coast:... probably rainy, windy and grey in the far north, yet still rather scenic, especially considering you'd need to be taking that path to get where you're heading.

So what am I even saying/sensing:

Leave Leavenworth on the 27th...

2 nights in Seattle ???

2 nights in Portland (including New Year's Eve)

then <b>YOU decide</b> which path to take to the south... the coast, <I>Interstate 5</i> (lots of green, and rain), or the east side of the Cascade Mountains (puts you near Crater Lake).

Maybe two nights <i><b>between</b></i> Portland and San Francisco.

San Francisco for 3 nights (slowly getting warmer, with less rain likely)

Then you leave San Francisco toward the south. Sounds for sure like you are staying on the coast for that, and with such a schedule you would likely have time to head inland at San Luis Obispo, and perhaps set your sights on <I>Death Valley</i> before going to Vegas.

See if the timing affords you the chance to <I><b>drive</b></i> to the Grand Canyon and back, from Vegas. (Las Vegas to <I>Tusayan, Arizona</i> = 4 hours, 270 miles, 432 km)


Hope this fills in at least a couple of <I>blanks</i>.

LOL - I did my night-math wrong... If you left Leavenworth on the 27th, and first did 2 nights in Seattle, and then 2 in Portland, then <I><b>New Year's Eve</b></i> would be the next night after that.

It would still <I>probably</i> be more interesting to spend <I>New Year's Eve</i> <b>IN P</b>ortland than in some remote spot in central Oregon.

Various thoughts:

If you don't need tire chains you can stay inside Yosemite NP. But if you do need tire chains you'll need to stay outside of Yosemite and take YARTS Yosemite Area Rapid Transit) to the park. Unfortunately, there's no way to know ahead of time if you'll need chains.

Info on YARTS: http://www.yarts.com/schedules.html

And info about winter in Yosemite: http://www.yosemitehikes.com/yosemit...-in-winter.htm



If you think you'll be returning here, save Las Vegas/Grand Canyon for another trip. You really don't have that much time during this trip for both areas.

It gets a lot drier the further south you drive in California. At the northeastern end, Crescent City gets about 11 inches of rain in January but southern California won't be remotely as wet. If you aren't able to visit Redwood National Park and its' associated state parks, there are other redwood state parks further south - e.g. Humboldt and Henry Cowell. Here's a link to the website for California State Parks: http://www.parks.ca.gov/

NorthwestMale and the other kind contributors, THANK YOU. You are telling me all the things I was wanting to find out. I am in the process of acquiring a proper, spread-out-on-the-car-bonnet/hood map that will help me to really see where the places are that you are all talking about. When I booked my accom in Leavenworth (actually, about 3 miles outside of the town) with VRBO, the man that i dealt with assured me that as the road that passes his property (my cabin) is on the ski road to Stevens Pass, it is always kept plowed, and he also was very re-assuring that the road from Seattle to Leavenworth is a main highway and kept driveable. I hope he conveyed this correctly, and I will email him and just double-check. Of course, blizzards, snow-storms and the highly unpredictable may well happen, and I guess we will just have to play it by ear and hope for the best, but plan for a back-up. Maybe we will end up in Seattle for Christmas.... not the end of the world. I was a bit dismayed to really be made aware of how wet it is likely to be. But, if that happens, we will just high-tail it down the coast and spend more time in the southern climes. However, you are all giving me great information. It seems that I should re-think our flight to the GC, as we do have time to drive it, and it sounds like that is what you would all recommend.
So, you think there is no real concern about pre-booking accomm along the way and that being Winter, we should be able to pretty much decide at the time, where we will stay for each night?
Once again, all very appreciated.
Kym

Hi, yes, you mostly WANT the flexibility of being able to improvise based on the weather. And with so many spots built to handle summer crowds, the lodging options in many areas will be more than happy to have you as a guest during the off season.

Now <b>IF</b>, for example, you had your heart set on having <I>the one room</i> at the <b>one</b> hotel in the <b>one</b> town on the Oregon coast, then it is quite possible <b>they</b> wouldn't have that <b>one</b> room for you.

But as <I>supply and demand</i> numbers are going to be on your side at that time, it should definitely be a <b>buyer's market</b>.

You are safe in improvising, and leaving yourself lots of flexibility.

<b>BY the way</b>, the "rain" that is so constant in the western Oregon/Washington area is usually the sort of <b>light rain</b> that we counter with a mere <i>hood</i> on our clothing. It is just light and often steady - and not the <b>monsoon-like</b> baths you might see in <I>severe weather highlights</i>.

Given <b>your <I>relay OF</i></b> what the man from Leavenworth said, I am fairly confident and comfortable about your reaching his location within a couple of days <b>at the very worst</b>.

And while <I>highway #2</i> (Stevens Pass) <b>is</b> a main highway, it also crosses the mountains at relatively high altitude, and is probably subject to worse winter weather than is the Interstate 90 counterpart.

Again, I think your <b>flexibility</b> is the very best thing you have going for you when planning this trip.

(and yes, more concisely this time, I agree that there <b>is no <I>real</i> concern</b> about pre-booking, and that you will be able to find accommodations on the fly - with the mentioned exceptions of your Leavenworth gig, and of <I>New Year's Eve</i> (depending upon just where you'll want to BE at that point))

And I don't know when or where, but I am <I>guessing</i> that on at least one day of your actual <b>travel</b> in the Washington/Oregon area, you'll see rough weather with which you don't want to deal with at that point, and you will <b>improvise on the spot</b> and alter your plans... <I>which is a freedom you will have for not having cemented too many commitments in advance</i>.

PS - re driving to the Grand Canyon... ONE of the mini-highlights of so doing involves returning toward Vegas and coming up over a hill, from complete darkness, and suddenly seeing the vastly-overdone <B>bright LIGHTS</b> of the Las Vegas strip down in the valley.

The safest way to get to central Oregon (Bend) from Portland in a winter storm is to go east on I-84 to The Dalles and then south on US 197 to tie in with US 97 going through Madras.
The Mt. Hood Pass (US 26) or the Santiam Pass (Rt 22 & US 20) can require chains.

HTtY, I was using your suggested itinerary and looking up the places you mentioned. I like the sound of the trip from Leavenworth to Portland, via Maryhill and the Multnomah Falls. Can you tell me whether this leg of the trip is one where we should (given usual conditions) be able to travel, or is it a part of the trip that will require the roads to have had little snow, or is subject to regular closure? Just trying to work out whether we need back-up plan here.
Thank you again,
Kym

Hi, well, the most direct trip from Leavenworth to Maryhill would need to cross over <I><b>Blewett Pass</b></i> and <I><b>Satus Pass</b></i>... <b>BUT</b>, unlike with many planned courses, <I>the detours</i> you'd likely make, for bad weather, are NOT extremely out-of-the-way.

Winter weather <I><b>could</b></i> be anything, and <i>could</i> find any of those places socked-in for a day or two.

But you could so easily alter your path to include Leavenworth-Wenatchee-Quincy-George-Ellensburg-Yakima-Sunnyside-Prosser-Umatilla... and then west along the <I>Columbia River</i> on I-84, which is uuuuuuuuuusually the least-susceptible-to-delays route between Leavenworth and Portland.

Indeed that last one adds a decent amount of distance, but it isn't a horrible amount, compared with <B>SOME winter detours mandated by weather</b> around here.

I think you <b>should be able to travel</b> that path (one way <b>or</b> the other {with the other not being THAT significant in terms of added time and distance}) without really being too fearful or concerned in advance about <b>which way</b> you'll go upon arrival.

Another question if I may?
We would like to catch one of your famous basketball or ice hockey games. Where do you buy tickets for these events, is it the right season for them (ice hockey - clearly, yes), and what teams would we be looking at? We would probably need to do it when it San Francisco or LA.
Cheers

(choke) Well just how great/advanced do you want the team to <b>be</b>??

Seattle has the <I>Thunderbirds</i>

Portland has the <I>Winterhawks</i>

(there are even teams in <b>Everett, Washington</b> and <I><b>Tri-Cities</b></i>, Washington (which entail Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland))

...each playing minor league hockey.

Portland has the <b>Trailblazers</b>, playing NBA Basketball.

(Both hockey and basketball would be happening when you are on your trip)

I <b>can't decide</b> as to what would intrigue me most, if from Australia... <b>would I really</b> want to watch <I>Ice Hockey</i> in a <b>California</b> climate not unlike my own?

On January 25 of this year they played an <b>outdoor</b> hockey game in <i>Los Angeles</i> in front of 54,000 people. The temperature at game time was 16C/62F.

I just don't know whether you'd feel the <I>full effect</i> more so if seeing a game <b>indoors</b>, but in a climate where <I>hockey</i> is more natural.

At any rate, first await next season's schedules to be established, and then match possible games to your other itinerary.

NWM, I had to smile at your reply. We are passionate suppporters of Aussie Rules footy (bears no resemblence whatsoever to your footy games) so I too would choke if asked what team to go and see. Our team, the Hawks, are 2013 premiers so it would be an easy answer. I think an indoors hockey game was more in line with what I was thinking. Also, my husband is 6ft6in, and has played basketball, so he would LOVE to catch a game, maybe in LA. When are the schedules released? And, it is usually difficult to get tickets. I know here, it can be hard to get tickets if they are the bigname teams playing. Might be worth trying to see the ice hockey in Portland, indoors.

When it comes to Aussie Rules Footy, America cares most about the (much ballyhooed) <b>"Man in White"</b> (who got <b>far</b> more than his due in U.S. advertisements for same)!

Luckily for you, L.A. has two basketball teams... one which has stunk for a long time, and the other was a headliner team for decades... <b>until this (ongoing) season</b>, <I>when their roles reversed themselves</i>.

Schedules for the "NBA" are typically released near August 1st.

Something else to consider... the <b>crowd</b> which would assemble for a game in L.A. might be a whole lot more rowdy and intimidating than that which would gather in Portland, for the same <I>National Basketball Association</i>, which could have some impact on your experience.

As for tickets, I think that with your sensing your target dates so far in advance, and with <i>your motives</i> being considerably different from most, you could surely order well in advance once you project your travel path, and easily land tickets. I am simply unaware of availability of tickets to those merely walking-up on the day of the games.


*** clarity: <b>outdoor hockey games</b> are <i>extremely rare</i> (at the "NHL"/professional level) but these were experiments, done in <I>football stadiums</i>. I was merely contemplating whether you might prefer <I>hockey ambiance</i> (including northern USA cold climate) to enhance your would-be hockey experience. (since hockey got its start in chilly Canada)

To those who replied to my OP, a huge Thank you. In case you wonder whether I followed up on all the great advice I was given (well.., a lot of it, not all!), I am putting my itinerary in my final post for this thread. It took a lot of researching, but I think I am very happy with how it looks. Of course, you are most welcome to tell me if something looks glaringly wrong, or is not going to work. The original part of our holiday is going to be highly dependent on what weather we encounter in and around Seattle and the northern areas above California. Here goes...

Day 1. Fly to Seattle

Day 2. spend the day there

Day 3 - 5 Drive out to Leavenworth, probably on the I-90 but over Stevens Pass if we are feeling brave and it's open! and spend 4 days there, hopefully in the snow, having a memorable Christmas experience with our 2 boys.

Days 6 - Drive to Portland, probably taking in Multnomah Falls and the old highway along the river there. WE will stay in Portland just the one night. Sorry!

Days 7 - 9 make our way down the coast to San Francisco. This depends again on the weather and how far we decide to travel each day. If it is totally miserable, we'll get to SF faster, if not, we'll take our time. Like the idea of stopping in Yachats and Eureka for the nights.

Days 10 - 13 in SF, staying about 4 streets back from Fishermans Wharf, on Columbus Ave. We arrive here on New Year's Eve, so figure there should be someting to see down in that area that evening.

Days 14 - 15 Yosemite. Entering via the Arch Rock entrance and staying about 15m from the valley, at Tenaya Lodge.

Days 16 - 18 Making our way to San luis Obispo where we hope to see the Monarch butterflies. We will stop along the way at places I haven't worked on yet.

Day 19 Make our way across to Death Valley. Not sure if we will stay at the Ranch place out there, seems dear as poison!

Day 20 Drive to Vegas.

Days 21 - 24 Explore this area, including trip out to Grand Canyon.

Day 25 - drive to LA

Day 28 make our way to Anaheim.

Day 32. Fly home.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. I hope I have done your advice justice.

Kym xxx

Seems like a good plan - and as always - some parts may be dependent on weather - but where you are heading - I think they generally keep the roads fairly clear - unless a big storm hits.

My Q - why Eureka? It's ok but don't know what special attraction it has?

No real reason why Eureka, it just seemed a good distance between Yachats and San Francisco. Have you a good recommendation for me?

Eureka doesn't have much to offer except the magnificent Carson Mansion at the north end of town: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Mansion

When we find Eureka a convenient stop, we stay at Best Western Bayshore Inn in a room with garden view (because they are the quietest), and we have dinner at Pho Thein Long. If we are up to a longer drive, we prefer to stay in the little town of Garberville at the Best Western Humboldt House Inn and to have dinner at Cecils'.

Just south of the "Trees of Mystery" is the little town of Klamath. DW and I have stayed at the Ravenwood Motel. The restaurant/bar across the road is not very good but the motel is OK. The "Trees of Mystery" is worth a stop if you haven't already seen enough Coast Redwoods by the time you get there.
Make sure to make a stop in the north end of Tillamook Oregon at the Tillamook cheese factory for good ice cream and cheese.

My sons will love that last post about the ice-cream, thank you tomfuller.
I will look into Garberville too. Not knowing that area, I just picked it by distance, not knowledge, so I am open to any other ideas.
Appreciate the hotel recommendations.

<i>No real reason why Eureka, it just seemed a good distance between Yachats and San Francisco. Have you a good recommendation for me?</i>

Two recommendations, one north the other south (but neither very far.)

<b>Trinidad</b> is about 20 miles north of Eureka, and has little coves, rocky beaches, nice landscape, plus an Indian casino.

<b>Ferndale</b> is around 20 miles <i>south</i> of Eureka, and is an extremely picturesque little town with some remarkable Victorian-era architecture. Ferndale is also a jumping-off point for the "Lost Coast," the last remaining wilderness and roadless stretch of coastline in California. Don't know if his shows play in Oz, but Ferndale is home to a TV chef personality, Guy Fieri ("Diners, Drive-ins and Dives.")

Both have the advantage of being off the US 101 freeway, but with convenient access.

Regardless, if you find yourselves around Eureka at mealtime, don't miss the Samoa Cookhouse, in Samoa across the bay from downtown Eureka. It's a former lumber mill cookhouse, where you're served hearty family-style food by your grannie. With attitude. http://www.samoacookhouse.net/

Trinidad and Samoa. What do you suppose the old-timers were thinking about?

Yeah, I think I'd go <b>Ferndale</b> too.

<I>(reminds self to try to figure out <b>"dear as poison"</b>)</i>

As for Death Valley, in early January, nothing especially extreme will likely initiate you to Death Valley. Do make the stop at the <I>lowest spot in the western hemisphere</i> (look up at the valley wall and see a sign denoting <i>Sea Level</i>), and <b>the hottest place on earth</b> (during northern summers) (at least on <i>July 10 <b>1913</b></i>)... but I don't even know that you have to <b>stay</b> the night down there. Press on to Vegas more quickly - (and you don't even CARE if you arrive LATE at night - they'll be up and waiting for you... and if you stick to the main tourist strip, <I>zillions of people</i> will be walking all around, and just about everyplace will be open)

i will definitely look into Ferndale then by the look of it.

How far is it from San Luis Obispo? I thought we might not make it all the way through to Vegas in one go, but if we can, then i would probably prefer to do that. The idea of coming upon Vegas at night appeals to me too.

'as dear as poison' - very expensive!

I haven't heard of Guy Fieri.

7 or 8 hours to SLO, at least. All day drive.

Guy Fieri is a TV chef on the Food Network. I am not a big fan.