Walking ok late at night in SanFrancisco?
 

For the couple of nights we'll be in SF, staying in the Cow Hollow area, we'll be out til about midnight at the theatre (Golden Gate (at Taylor & 6th), and the theatre at 678 Green where Beach Blanket Babylon is playing -- and wondered if we could walk back to Lombard from there -- (ie is it pretty safe?) -- or should we take a cab? Anticipating your input...and thanks all!!

Beach Blanket Babylon you can walk around that area safely, however Golden Gate Theatre--do NOT walk! Take a taxi. The area is very sketchy. After the show you are surrounded with normal theatre goers but once they dissapate you are in skid row.

Hi onthegogo, do you have a map of SF?

I ask because the walk from the Golden Gate Theatre to Lomabard is blocks and blocks away. There is no way I would walk that in the dark! Safe? NO!!!
Get a taxi for sure.

I do not know where you are staying on Lombard but after the BBB on Green St.I would want to take a taxi also.

Thanks for the quick replies.....taxi(s) it is!! We love walking in SF - so interesting....but don't want to run into any bad guys! Thanks for the advice.

Hi onthegogo, I love walking in SF too, more then most people probably. But there is a time and a place to walk in SF.

I am so glad you will take taxi's after these wonderful evening events.

Welcome to SF and have a wonderful time!

Hi onthegogo,
LoveItaly gives the perfect answer. There are numerous neighborhoods in S.F. that are o.k. in the daylight, but are rather not o.k. at night. Taylor & 6th is not a great place day or night. The cabs know when shows let out, so there are many crusing around - please take one back to North Beach.

I've walked that many times (having stayed in Cow Hollow a lot), but admitedly it is a very long walk, particularly at night.

You can also get the bus right at Washington Square Park just about a block from BBB, and it goes right to Cow Hollow, and along Chestnut. I've taken it many times from downtown or from North Beach until as late as 1 or 2 AM -- no problem.

Duh, that wasn't very clear. I was mainly referring to the walk from BBB, not from 6th and Taylor. I'd suggest a taxi from there also back to Cow Hollow.

Patrick, I am glad you clarified that!
I was thinking "no, no" do not walk from 6th and Taylor. Take care!

If you don't walk from Taylor @6th Street you'll be missing all enterntainment the Tenderloin district has to offer: streetwalkers, street vendors (read: prostitutes, drug dealers). And if you are lucky enough, a few gun shots will be added here and there.

And you paid for theater tickets, silly!

Nobody mentioned the big hill that you immediatly ascend walking from 6th & Taylor to Lombard. It likely won't be a problem, because you will probably get accosted before you reach the hill & will be taken to your hotel in a police car or ambulence. That area is really bad at night.

I don't see anything wrong with walking from BBB by going north on Columbus to the Cannery, then through Ghiradelli, then along Bay to Gough and back to Lombard. It's flat, and would be quite enjoyable.

Stu Dudley
San Mateo (San Francisco), Ca

My comment is general, as I've only visited downtown San Fran a few trips... I found things change VERY quickly from block to block in some places.

To the point that wandering mid-day near the edge of the Tenderloin a reasonably sane looking stranger stopped us saying "don't go that way!".

Thanks again everyone for the replies.....fun to read too. Glad to hear there will be taxis available after the show.

Jumping in here...where is the Tenderloin area??

Hi girlonthego, well my definition of The Tenderloin is west of Union Square (NOT Union Square) about Mason St. to Van Ness Ave.(the streets run south to north and north of Market about Turk to oh say Geary St. (the streets run east to west). Not sure if that is 100% correct, someone else here like Stu Dudley, Faina etc. could no doubt give a better guideline.

You will know, without a doubt, when you wander into it. One block can be fine and the next block is like night and day. I always suggest visitors do their exploring during the daylight hours rather then at night, so at night you know where to not wander into.

Don't let this stress you out, well except if you want to walk from Market and 6th after any seeing an evening performance!! You will pick pick up immediately when you wander into a block that you would not prefer. I think our Stu Dudley and Faina gave very good descriptions BTW. As funny as they were they are also correct.

Thanks, I think we will cable car and walk during the day and cab home at night. Better safe than sorry when you are an out of towner..

Hi girlonthego, walking IMHO is one of the joys of SF! It is what I enjoy most.

At night, when there is a long walk I prefer a taxi too. North Beach is fine at night, lots of people are out enjoying outside cafes, walking around etc. Same at Union Square. Not a problem.

Take good care.

Hi, onthegogo!

I'm neither Faina nor Stu - don't look like them either, especially Stu! :)

However, the boundaries for the SF Tenderloin are:

Market Street to the South
Post Street to the North
Van Ness to the West and
Powell Street to the East

(Take a taxi!) Have a fine trip! :)

Where is the Tenderloin?

Ha!

Go ask a stranger outside one of those GirlsGirlsGirls theaters where the tenderloin is, he'll be more than happy to show you...

gross,
roxy

Hi Easytraveler, you say The Tenderloin starts at Powell St. at the east. I am afraid that gives visitor the impression that Powell St. is part of The Tenderloin. Powell St. is the west side of Union Square. Where the St. Francis Hotel is. Where the Sir Francis Drake Hotel is, Scala's restaurants etc.

In other words dear one you are saying for example that the corner of Post St. and Powell St. (where Sak's is) is part of The Tenderloin.

I gently disagree.

On the street map I used for walking downtown, these areas were marked. Not their boundaries exactly but it said "tenderloin" in the middle of the district.

Hello my twin sister EasyTraveler :)

Tenderloin is roughly a triangle bordered by Geary - Market - Van Ness.

>>Tenderloin is roughly a triangle bordered by Geary - Market - Van Ness.<<

That means Macy's is in the Tenderloin !!!!! I never thought of it that way. I agree with LoveItaly - the Tenderloin starts at Powell, but the first block or two west is OK.

Actually, 6th & Taylor do not intersect. I think the theater is at the corner of Taylor & Market.

Stu Dudley
Native San Franciscan

Hi, loveitaly!

Didn't mean to mislead anyone! I'm not the one giving the outlines of where the Tenderloin is, history has made that designation.

I don't want to upset you further, but that wonderful place of high end shops and great hotels today known as Union Square used to be part of the Barbary Coast, land of "every vice and debauchery". "Maiden Lane" wasn't as innocent as it sounds today. Belden Lane, often mentioned on this forum, used to be part of the Barbary Coast as well. Powell Street also defined one of the boundaries of the Barbary Coast, which was a lot worse in the past than the Tenderloin is today. There are lots of places in San Francisco where tourists today tread totally oblivious to the city's raunchy history. I, personally, find that history fascinating.

Actually, not all of the Tenderloin is terrible. It is ethnically the most diverse of all of San Francisco's neighborhoods. The Theater District is within the Tenderloin. The Tenderloin got its name, as the story goes, because in the bad old days, the police were paid more for patrolling that area of town - so they could afford a better cut of meat, the tenderloin.

I'd take back the definition of Powell Street as one of the boundaries of the Tenderloin if I could, but those are the boundaries you will find in some of the historical accounts of San Francisco. Maybe I'm wrong, but then my sources are wrong. :)

As to why the various San Francisco neighborhoods have the boundaries they have today, I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the old Spanish/Mexican land grants. Someone correct me here?

easytraveler
me too, gently making my explanation :)

>>As to why the various San Francisco neighborhoods have the boundaries they have today, I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the old Spanish/Mexican land grants. Someone correct me here?<<

Jose de Jesus Noe was a major Mexican land grant holder that owned everything from Twin Peaks to Daly City. That includes my old stomping grounds - the Noe Valley.

Jose Cornelio Bernal was another land grant holder - we have the Bernal Heghts neighborhood now.

Jose Sanchez was a former comandante of the Presidio and his son Alcalde held a large land grant which is now Pacifica - He has a street named after him.

Jasper O'Farrell did most of the street layout in the early days of SF - thus the street name.

Francisco Guerrero held a land grant in the Richmond district and has a street named after him

Of course, everyone in Calif knows of General Vallejo - who has a street named after him also.

Bush street was named after............

I never felt comfortable walking along Market street west of Union square towards the mission district, where a big number of homless people kept staring at me, and I felt like they could just attack me if they wanted to ! I wasn't even INSIDE the tenderloin. and I never even saw a single police officer around downtown SF.

That was last year on my first time in SF. well, the first time was when I was 8 but I don't remember that much about that trip!

When I came back home from SF last year I thought: thank God I have another city like NY where I can just enjoy walking and wandering around!
I actually said that I would never go back to SF because of what I said above.
But the more I read about SF, the more I want to go back !

So What areas of SF are safe, and what areas are not ! for exaple, is it safe to walk from Nob hill to Fisherman's Wharf during the day? how about at night?

I was very surprised to see that SF was ranked one of the safest major city in the US! and I thought it was the most dangerous major city in the US!

http://www.mercerhr.com/summary.jhtm...ontent/1173105

Bush St --- LOL Stu!!!!

Hi easytraveler, in no way did I mean to infere you were trying to mislead anyone.

It is just that in my experience tourist who come to SF sometimes get real concerned over where it is safe to walk. And as we know,Powell St., is a major street, the hotels, cable cars, west side of Union Sq. etc. So I try to not use that street as the beginning of The Tenderloin as I beieve that when visitors ask about The Tenderloin they are referring to the unsafe area of it.

I am well aware of SF history. My family came to SF from New Hamshire right after the Civil War. I think the history of SF is very interesting and is part of the draw of SF for visitors.

Again, I always encourage visitors to get famaliar with the streets during daylight hours versus nighttime.

And there are lovely places that to me are not the best area at night such as the Hotel Monaco which has the Grand Cafe. I personally will not stay at the Hotel Monaco as I do not want to walk their in the dark. But obviously for others it is not a problem.

Anyway, wishing all who are coming to enjoy SF this spring a happy and safe visit. And wishes for blue sky and sunshine too!

mveet "homeless" people on the streets of SF do not make it a dangerous city as the ranking establishes. They may make you feel uncomfortable or in the case of us local, annoy us, but that is not the same. Are there parts of SF that I would not walk in late at night, yes; just as there are parts of most cities that I as a woman would not walk in. There are very few parts of SF that I would not walk around during the day.

Thanks SAB, can you tell me what areas you're talking about please?

>>So What areas of SF are safe, and what areas are not ! for exaple, is it safe to walk from Nob hill to Fisherman's Wharf during the day? how about at night?<<

I will specify the areas that re dicy - it's a much shorter list. BTW, SF has always been one of the safest cities in the US - by far.

The Tenderloin - area west of Powell, south of Sutter, north of Market, and west of Van Ness.

Mission & 7th area - which is the area south of Market next to the Tenderloin. It's west of about 5th, south of Market, east of Valencia and as far south as 16th St

The area around City Hall gets lots of homeless people, but I don't think it is unsafe - just unsightly.

Hunters Point and Visitation Valley, but I can't imagine any reason a tourist would find themselves there.

There are some small pockets I feel uncomfortable in:
-If you start at Franklin & Eddy, and go south along Franklin to Grove, west on Grove to Laguna, then south on Laguna to Oak, then west on Oak to Webster, and south on Webster to Market st, then northeast on Market back to Franklin & then north back to the starting point at Franklin & Eddy. Most of the places inside this boundry is a little dicy.

What remains - just about 95% of San Francisco.
Downtown
Financial District
SOMA as far west as 5th st
Nob Hill
North Beach
Russian Hill
Chinatown
Pacific Heights
Presidio Heights
Richmond
GG park
Most of the Western Addition
Haight
Castro
Noe Valley
Potrero
Bernal Heights
Parts of the Mission
Glen Park
Sunset
St Francis Woods
West Portal
Twin Peaks
Dubose Triangle
Parts of Hayes Valley

Stu Dudley

Thank you so much stu!

The only places I would not walk by myself during the day are not places most visitors would go, such as Hunter's Point or parts of Crocker Amazon. Late at night I would probably not walk around alone in parts of the Mission near 24th Street; parts of the Tenderloin; 6th and Mission; the Civic Center near the GG Theatre or UN Plaza. But then I don't usually walk around SF alone late night other than in my own neighborhood to walk the dog or a couple of blocks to my car.

SAB, anywhere in SF you should look over your shoulder. I know a man who was robbed at gunpoint on Laurel street: it was more convenient for him to take the groceries home while the car was in the street, not in the garage. One of the safest areas!

>>SAB, anywhere in SF you should look over your shoulder. I know a man who was robbed at gunpoint on Laurel street:<<

Still, SF is one of the safest cities in the USA. If you want to be real safe, stay in your house all the time with the doors locked - just like my mother-in-law does in Indianapolis. On the other hand, if you really want to enjoy all the wonderful things this City has to offer - go out & enjoy & don't worry. My MIL has not had a life for over 30 years.

Stu Dudley

To throw a wrench into everything, a lot of the dicey neighborhoods (Polk Street, Tenderloin and TenderNob, 6th Street) are where you'll find the most interesting bars, clubs and even restaurants nowadays. These are for the younger or young-at-heart crowd, though. You need to like "edgy."

I don't consider 24th and Mission dangerous at all. But I live here and subsequently don't really think of much of the city as dangerous most of the time, except maybe Bayview/Hunter's Point and the area by the Cow Palace.

That said, if I'm coming home by myself late in the evening, I usually take a taxi. It's too cold here at night!

24th and Mission
Well, o.k., during the day anyway.

16th and Mission
O.k. with your guard up during the day or for an early show at the Roxie Theatre. NOT o.k. later at night.

Mentioning these two Mission intersections because of the BART connections.

Sooooo, in summery (and have I got this right?) after reading all the great input, if we have an 8pm theatre ticket at Golden Gate Theatre ...we should have dinner somewhere other than within walking distance of Golden Gate Theatre -- and just take a cab to the theatre (and from). However, the night we go to the 10pm Beach Blanket Babylon, since its in North Beach area -- we can walk to and from our Cow Hollow motel on Lombard if we want (and provided its not freezing and pouring rain!). Its good to find out all of this before we find ourselves in the middle of a problem!! Thanks to you all. We do love SF and have always felt safe there, but then again, haven't been to Taylor & 6th before!! You're all great...thanks.

Leely I don't consider 24th and Mission dangerous per se but unlike you I don't live in that neighborhood and therefore I'm not comfortable late at night. I live 3 blocks from Haight street in Cole Valley and I know some would advise against walking around my neighborhood at night because it is near to Haight. I know where to go so I don't agree with that evaulation. I'm sure it is the same with you but most visitors are not privy to the kind of knowledge on acquires by virtue of living in a neighborhood. BTW Faina, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I have very good street smarts, or a combination of both but I have lived in SF for 30 years without incident of any kind. I'm with Stu, just go and enjoy.

onthegogo,

Yes--walk from BBB if it's not freezing. Not from 6th and Taylor.

SAB, actually I live in Noe Valley. And I agree with you, but the Mission has been attracting a "bridge and tunnel" crowd for so long now that it's pretty busy with revelers on weekend nights. I was simply specifying because guides aimed at the younger crowd often direct people to this neighborhood.

Oh to be absolutely clear here, I'm cetainly not suggesting that anyone stay away from the Mission District. It is a fabulous, vibrant area of town and I love dining at places like Alma's, Delphina's, the Foreign Cinema. But it does have some rough spots and below Mission around 24th is one of them.