Using VRBO in New York city
 

I'm going to NYC in March and have been looking at apartments on VRBO.
I have rented from VRBO in Paris but never New York. I noticed on another thread that people warned against doing this in New York. Has no one had a good experience with VRBO in New York? Is there an agency that anyone can recommend? I'm hoping for some positive posts so I can pursue apartment hunting. I'll be there for one week. Thanks.

I think it's illegal in NY.

Most rentals under 30 days are illegal in NY.

"<i>Has no one had a good experience with VRBO in New York? </i>"

Sure, lots have. But that doesn't change the fact the many if not most private/short term rentals are illegal. So even if one finds a decent rental - there is no recourse if something goes wrong.

Several NYC locals will likely find your thread and give you more info . . .

As stated above, most short term (under 30 days) apartment rentals are illegal. Try an apartment/hotel such as Radio City Apartments or Affinia. Put apartment hotels New york in goggle to find more.

I have rented a couple of apts in NYC very successfully for a week or so in the past. Both of those used to be on VRBO. Since the rentals have become illegal (they used to be legal in the condos they were in) they have now been taken off the website.
I do know of some that rent for 30 days or more (still legal).
I'm not sure why other owners of condos are still advertising on VRBO when the weekly rentals are now illegal.

Technically, they illegality doesn't kick in until May, notwithstanding the fact that city and state laws have only been clarified and that most buildings already ban these rentals.

The answer I always give to people who ask me is that you can use VRBO at your own risk, and much of the time nothing will happen. But if something does happen, you have absolutely no legal recourse and are just flat out of luck in the most expensive hotel city in America. This can happen at the beginning or the middle of a rental. I do believe that people have fewer problems with VRBO rentals than with Craigslist rentals, which are sometimes just simple cons.

FYI: Such rentals are also now illegal in Paris.

Thanks for the information.

Some owners/renters don;tcare if it is illegal or not - since they are nottaking the risk. The potential problemisthat the vactioner may - if found out - be considered a respassser by the condo, co-op or landlord (since they have no right to be there) and removed.

If a person owns a private house and want to rent out part of it it's still ilegal (doesn;t meet short-term rental codes) but you won;t be removed. The problem i s finding a person who owns a hourse that is willing to rent some out.

Better to get a hotel room or suite that has a kitchen/kitchenette if you want one.

Try Radio City Apartments (really a hotel) the Beacon or the Affiia Group.

Although I have used VRBO successfully for numerous vacations, I have never done so for a city, whether it be NYC, Paris or Rome. Rightly or wrongly, I am suspicious of short term rentals, outside of agencies, in cities.

There are plenty of suite hotels and b & b's that rent the equivalent of an apt. If you want some recos, post back with approx budget and what size apt. you need.

Thanks, Mclaurie. I was hoping for around $200 but, with the hotel tax, even the Beacon gets high. I would like to be on the Upper West Side and I would like to have a microwave and small fridge, if possible. The Milburn, where I have stayed in the past, is climbing up in price. Maybe this is unrealistic.
Thanks for any recos.

Nancy, prices fluctuate based on date. If you're talking about this Dec., you may have a problem. I think the Newton further north on 96th may have fridge and microwave. Jacksbandb.com is apts. but they book quickly and may also be over budget. The Lucerne amd the Excelsior and both have some suites with kitchenettes. The Belleclaire has fridges but no microwaves. http://belleclairehotel.com/index.php

Newton does have a microwave and fridge - and in Dec you can get a double room with shared bath for about $200 a night. (Anything less in Dec is NOT realistic.) A double with private bath is about $250 per night.

If you are looking at another time of year prices will be significantly lower. Go directly to the hotel web site for best deals.

The neighborhood is good and it's right on top of the subway - and if you like walking you can easily get to a lot of the major museums on foot, either straight down the west side or across the park

Jacks B &B looks like just what I want, and I'm not going until March. Thanks so much.

I made the mistake of renting with UpScale Gypsy on VRBO, and the place was not yet cleaned-there was garbage piled up in the kitchen, the bed unmade with dirty sheets, and dishes in the sink. I had to pick up the cleaning lady who was supposed to have cleaned and passed the key off to me - they will not give me back the $600 I paid in advance. Stay away from these people. They are thieves.

Thanks for the warning.

BigNoisy, you are just lucky there was actually a place. I've heard stories of people who rented apartments in NYC from the "owners" who turned out to be the same guys who send you those emails promising you millions if you just send them your bank account number.

I'll be candid: I have a place in NYC which I use only once a month, and it is tough to have to pay for everything – utilities, cable, building fees... when I'm hardly ever there. But that's the price of admission. So if my neighbor rents weekly or frequently as in VRBO? Yeah...I'm turning them in. Whether the renter gets stuck or not is not my problem. NYC is tough enough to live in without dealing with random comings and goings next door. I find it hard to believe people are still asking this question on this forum. What part of "illegal" is so hard to understand?

Hi Suite7,
I'll take the bait. To those of us who don't live in the city, and especially to those of us who don't live in multi-family housing, the idea that a law can tell you who you can and can't have in your house seems odd.
In a place where my property is my property, and I can do what I want with it, worrying about a neighbor not liking my guests or my plans is quite foreign, and strange, and a little unbelievable.
So please be patient when we say "Really, you can't rent your own apartment to someone if you want to?"
Thanks,
Laura

And after having asked the question: "Really, you can't rent your own apartment to someone if you want to?" please, in spite of your level of unfamiliarity with NYC housing laws and the NYC DOB, expect and accept that the answer is, for all practical purposes, "No".

When you rent an apartment you sign a lease based on very specific regulations. It is NOT your apartment - it is the landlord's apartment and they (subject to local laws) get to set the rules.

The same is true of co-op and condo boards (who are elected by the tenants).

I dont; see what there is not to understand.

Suppose when your son or daughter went away to college they decided to rent out their room to a stranger to make a profit - without telling you - and giving that person the run of your house. Would you be OK with that?

Well - illegally renting out an apartment here is the same thing.

Now do you understand?

Ah, but nytraveler, your analogy falls apart if the person actually owns their apartment. I could rent my house out to whomever I wanted, and take tenants too as long as I didn't violate maximum tenancy rules. It is a bit strange that it's the city (and not Condo boards or neighborhood HOAs) not allowing weekly rentals. Probably because they want the tax revenue from legitimate vacation rentals.

Actually, now that I think about it, there is no such thing as a vacation rental in NYC is there? Now that is a bit strange. Think about other cities, like San Diego and Tahoe, where vacation rentals are common. I guess NYC really wants people to only stay in hotels.

There are a number of reasons why short-term rentals are prohibited, and not only in apartment buildings in NYC --- one of which is to collect more hotel tax. FWIW, there are places that regulate short-term rentals even in single-family homes --- Maui comes to mind --- in order to preserve the permanent residents lifestyle -- i.e. living in a real neighborhood, and not a transient one.

"Ah, but nytraveler, your analogy falls apart if the person actually owns their apartment."

I don't think her analogy falls apartment because she clearly states: "The same is true of co-op and condo boards (who are elected by the tenants)"

I can't believe I typed "I don't think her analogy falls apartment" instead of apart

I might add that certainly one of the reasons for that law in NYC is because there were so many con jobs/illegal actions concerning apartment rentals.

I live in a NYC apartment house with about 100 apartments. I certainly would not want these apartments rented out by the week to anybody who answers an ad. What security would I have living here? Very scary idea! Part of multiple housing is the idea that "somebody" has qualified the people living here. Who would you like to meet in the hallway at night while you are putting out the trash? or in the elevator coming home late at night? Living in a big city is different from single family housing.

But it IS the condo and co-op boards that specifically ban ANY sublets without approval of the board. And that means the board gets to review the financials of the (long-term) tenants with a fee for the renter - and bans short-term sublets.

Why you refuse to believe that people don;t want strangers wandering around their houses I don;t know. Did you read my analogy? And co-op/condo ownership is subject to a lease - signed before purchase - stating all of these rules.

Would you be happy with strangers living in one of your bedrooms?

nytraveler, I don't disagree with the whole concept of it being wrong to rent out an apartment illegally and for many of the reasons you and others have stated, but please tell me you don't honestly believe having a stranger live in one of your bedrooms inside your apartment is JUST LIKE a stranger living in an apartment next door off a hallway with a locked door between you and them! You keep saying it's the same thing, and surely you don't honestly believe that. It may be horrible and frightening to encounter a stranger in your hallway, but surely you don't consider that the same as encountering one inside your own apartment!

I think some people from outside New York would also have trouble understanding that, not only can you not rent out your place on a short-term basis, but you also cannot just buy any apartment that you like in any building, even if you have the money to do so...



So if would-be buyers have to jump through the hoops to buy an apartment in many coops, it stands to reason that the same buildings would not allow just anyone to move in on a short term rental basis.

Not sure if this is the case elsewhere, but grown men have been known to quake in their boots at the thought of a coop board interview.

It is not horrible and frightening to encounter a stranger in the hallway. It would be very frustrating - since you know nothing about the person, what they are doing there, and what their business is. They might be a tourist, they might be a thief or a drug dealer - or they might just be someone who is very careless about building security - potentially letting anyone into the building.

Granted my example is a TINY bit overstated. We do have locks on our apartment front door. But a stranger in the building could let in others who are lurking on the stairs or in the incinerator room. About 15 years ago some apparently didn't shut the front door fully and a bum wandered into the building. My next door neighbor went to throw her trash in the incinerator at around midnight and opened the compacter room door to find a bum sleeping there - who started yelling at her and jumped up. She made it back to her apartment and called the police who came, searched, found the bum - wandering the stairs - and hauled him out. After that we increased our security to prevent a recurrence. Having strange "travelers" in the building would completely defeat that attempt to keep our home secure. And instead of a bum that person could have been a thief - or worse. And strange
travelers" are unlikely to be as aware of the need for building security or as careful as residents.

We did not pay a large sum of money for an apartment and significant monthly maintenance to be surprised by bums - or wore - at midnight when throwing out trash or recyclables in the hallway outside our apartment.

Yes, I agree with all you say, I was just a little taken aback by your comparisons of a stranger living in another apartment in the building and someone living in a person's guest bedroom!
One good thing is that at least in your situation residents do have some choice about who lives next to them. In many places, anyone can move in next door and a single family home owner has NO control over that, even if they are something like a known child molester!

It still seems strange to me that the CITY is banning the rentals, though, not the individual condo boards. It would make more sense (and be more like the rest of the country) if it were a condo board/HOA decision. The fact that it's the city makes it seem more about revenue than quality of life in any one building.

Sublets are already prohibited by most coop boards in Manhattan, as far as I know...without the express permission of the board.

I don't know Monica. Many cities pass all kinds of laws regarding everything from safety factors and zoning issues within buildings to various building codes some of which are not even about safety, but just aesthetics or "quality of life" within the buildings. So it's not a stretch that the city would pass a rule like this. But I do think the issue of short term rentals is harder to control in a condo than it is in a coop.

Cities control lots of aspects of housing, such as occupancy, rent control in some cities, density, so it really isn't strange unless you don't live in a city of any size.

New York City is NOT like the rest of the country.

We have very strong rent control/stabilization laws that mandate what rents landlords can charge for many apartments. I believe the rules are for apartments under $2000 per month in which the tenant has lived for a certain number of years. In return for the landlords having their rents controlled (small increases are allowed, which are determined by law by the NYC Rent Stabilization Board) there are very strict rules about occupancy. For instance, to qualify for occupancy one of these apartments it MUST be your primary residence and you cannot sublet it. If the tenants don't qualify then the landlord gets to charge market rate for apartment.

I'm not aware of any other cities that have these types of rules. In return for artificially low rents (I know it doesn't sound like it - but many hundreds of thousands of apartments rent at below market value) tenants have to follow restrictive laws.

But, I would be very surprised if rental leases anywhere allow tenants to sublet apartments without the approval of the landlord.

Yes, but there's a big difference between subletting a rental apartment and leasing a condominium that is owned by a particular owner.