|
Travel vs. the Environment? Is it an either/or?
A little piece of me dies every time I hear the sad stories about polar bears drowning, global warming, and the horrible (and worsening) state of the environment. I'm looking for ways, even little ways, that I, as an individual, can help turn things around. I've started bringing a cloth bag to the grocery store (and not taking paper OR plastic), turning out the lights, driving less, biking more, buying products that aren't over-packaged, recycling, fixing vs. replacing, etc... and I'm wondering what I can do differently when I travel. I love to travel, I love to explore, and I've done a fair amount of it.
Pollution from air travel is immense. Pollution from ship travel is bad too. Pollution from car travel is a problem. Knowing that I can't change it all, what can I do to be an environmentally-conscious traveler (beyond just lip service and make-me-feel-good-about-myself tricks)? Any ideas? |
We have planned some (but not enough) travel based on eco-lodging, etc - usually by investigating in whatever particular area we were headed for - you can also try the regional and national park sites - in the meantime, here are some interesting sites to look over:
ecotourism.org tourismfortomorrow.com sustainabletravelinternational.org greenhotels.com ecotravel.com epicadventures.com You may want to subscribe to one of the environmentally friendly travel mags or websites for more info. There may also be an environmental group near where you live that could use volunteer help! |
I've thought about this, too-I love to travel but air travel is incredibly polluting, and as you say, car and ship pollution is a big issue too. But I can't see myself NOT flying or ever taking a road trip again. So, I just try to make other decisions that are environmentally responsible, since my travel isn't. For example, I rarely drive at home-I purposefully live in a location where I can take public transit or walk everywhere. I don't buy foods that have traveled from 10,000 miles away on a plane or ship (produce in the winter from South America, for example). I've also thought about renting a hybrid (if I don't break down and buy one) when I take road trips in the future. A perfect solution? No, but I don't know of a way to have zero impact on the environment and still travel (or just live, for that matter).
I do remember hearing of a program where you donate money per amount of air and car travel you do, and I think they donate the $$ to tree planting or some other enviro cause. Maybe that is a good idea, donating to an enviro cause every time we travel. |
My understanding it that it's the jets/fuel that are so harmful. There's just no getting around that if you want to travel.
At your destination, sure you can use public transportation instead of renting a car, not drive those stupid ATV's around on a beach (sorry pet peeve of mine crept in), but to be honest with ourselves, there is simply a certain amount of harm that comes in transporting ourselves around the world. |
i feel the same way! when we stay at hotels, don't have housekeeping wash the towels more than once every three days or so, we don't need our sheets changed daily, etc.
we always rent the most fuel efficient vehicles available- and when they offer us a free upgrade to some beastly gas-guzzler we decline and tell the counter agent why. in fact, i think some rental agencies will let you rent a hybrid nowadays! (we own a toyota prius and LOVE it! the ultimate road trip vehcile. it's spacious, with lots of room, easily accessed, in the hatchback.) reduce the amount of trash/waste in the things you purchase- especially on vacation. no reason to purchase things with extra packaging, etc. instead of renting a car when you travel, consider renting a bicyle if the destination allows for that sort of thing. recyle your used suntan/lotion/shampoo bottles, etc. take direct flights whenever possible, that way you're not taking off twice, which seems to be when a lot of fuel is spent. stay in family-owned hotels rather than mega resorts with 7 swimming pools, mega workout rooms, video games, all that extra junk. don't leave the air conditioning on in the hotel room when you're gone. same with the lights. don't take coach busses- which heavily burn diesel, and usually sit idling for hours at stops. i see it every day here in LA. it sounds like you're doing as much as you humanly can already. i feel the same guilt as you do, but it would be pretty draconian to avoid taking trips altogether! :) good for you for starting this thread! it's important to keep environmentalism at the forefront of people's minds. |
|
How old are you people?
Obviously not old enough to remember (or know) what REAL pollution was 40 and 50 years ago. When a dense pall hung over Los Angeles every single day. When the Cuyahoga River was so polluted that it actually burned. When 3 of the 5 Great Lakes were close to being cesspools. When emissions from anything were blatently unchecked. My point is.......everything is relative. Believe it or not, this country is a WHOLE LOT cleaner now than it was 40 years ago. (To bad the same thing can't be said of the former Soviet Union and China). I can catch trout and salmon out of the Milwaukee River when 40 years ago all I would have caught was a turd. Don't be so angst ridden. Sheesh!!!!!! |
How old are we? Are you serious? We're old enough to know that there's a real problem here. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be snippy, but I just don't think we can ignore the larger impact of the choices we make. Yes, China is a huge polluter. It breaks my heart. But to say just because you feel like your backyard is cleaner is an indicator that we're better off than we were 40 years ago, is sticking your head in the sand.
And by the way, I'm well over 40, thank you. |
Well....... aren't we a "glass-half-empty" bunch!
The impact on this planet of the day to day choices we make individually are infinitesimal. On the other hand....what we have done collectively via entities such as the EPA, and the Clean Air and Water Act has made this country a much cleaner and healthier place to live since the time I was a kid. This ball of rock has gone through hundreds of upheavals in its billion-plus year history - and all before homo sapiens even arrived. With a few notable exceptions, the planet has been gradually warming since the last ice age..... and for 9,900 of those years there were no cars or airplanes to blame it on. Are we better off than we were 50 years ago? Yeah... you betcha. Are we better off than we probably could be? No way..... but we're getting there. Lighten up. The devastation of the planet ain't going to hinge on whether you take a flight from Philly to Nashville. But............. if you think it will, then don't take the flight. |
"The devastation of the planet ain't going to hinge on whether you take a flight from Philly to Nashville."
No, but it will hinge on people like you who refuse to recognize there are thousands of flights a day...duh. |
We use energy efficient light bulbs, drive a Pruis and regularly use public transit (family of 3, 1 car). So if we want to take air trips from time to time, that's okay. I think everyone needs to make that decision for themselves.
|
We recycle also and have for over 20 years.
|
The plane will go from point A to point B whether or not you are on it. Therefore, staying at home won't help one bit.
Can you convince enough people to cancel their travel plans so that the flights will have to be cancelled? |
The OP asked
"what can I do to be an environmentally-conscious traveler" - she didn't say she wasn't going to ever get on a plane or in a car, she was just asking what she could do to alleviate enivronmental damage - finding ways to avoid being wasteful or to adapt and work with our environment is always prudent - waste not, want not as my nana used to say :) |
This is a great thread topic. I only recently drew the explicit connection of travel and its environmental impact when a girlfriend of mine told me they had cancelled their planned trip over the holidays to Hawaii because of the pollution air travel creates. Instead they spent the New Year's eve upon a local snow-capped mountain!
While this "extreme" choice is not for everyone (me included) over the past few years, my SO has shown me that every little thing that we can do for the planet is positive, especially when considered collectively. I appreciate the tips on what others do when travelling. I also do many of those things; here's a tip not yet mentioned. If we are doing a roadtrip, when we buy bottled water, we buy two individual bottles and then the big gallon jugs afterwards. We just wash out our bottles and replenish it from the jug to keep down the number of plastic bottles heading to the landfill. Enjoy-la! |
There is no doubt that this old earth has undergone many cycles of warming/cold, and we are in a warming trend now. It's going to continue no matter what we do or don't do.
However, even though this warming trend can be considered "normal" there is no doubt that we may be hurrying it along some. How much??? The scientist will be arguing about that for eons. What to do to slow it down to a more natural speed???? Get ALL the countries to close ALL the factories. Stop ALL automobile and airplane travel. Stop harvesting the forests. Turn off the power plants, stop big trucks and railroads. Lots of things that MIGHT slow it down a little, but it will happen sooner or later regardless of what we do. These climate changes just don't happen over night. It would take decades to see any big changes. Cloth bags at the grocery store won't help. The factories will just keep right on producing the same amount of plastic and paper. It will take at a couple of billion people doing the same to have any effect on production worldwide. So, if it makes you feel better to stop traveling, then do it. It won't help any unless you can convince EVERYONE EVERYWHERE to do the same. Fat chance of that happening |
Sigh. My intent was never to suggest that people stop traveling. In fact, traveling and appreciating the world is what can (maybe) drive us all to try to conserve something, just a little. My question was what I could do to be more environmentally aware when I travel. Thanks to the posters who answered that, you offered up some great ideas.
|
I think that if we all make incremental changes in our daily lives to use fewer resources and create less waste and pollution, then we will all be better off.
Yes, the earth is in a natural warming trend. Yes, human beings are helping that warming trend a long. Yes, we have made huge strides toward a cleaner planet in the last 50 years. I think that people have some really good ideas for limiting their impact while still being able to travel and enjoy their lives. If we all adopt some practices, then we will make good progress. I look at it in a similar manner to personal health - most of us eat things we shouldn't sometimes and most of us don't exercise as much as we ought to. But if we make some changes toward better health, we will be healthier. |
"My question was what I could do to be more environmentally aware when I travel."
Tread lightly. When hiking or 4-wheel driving, stay on designated trails rather than create new ones. Pack your non-biodegradable waste out with you rather than leave it behind. Don't pick the flowers. Take only pictures and memories out with you instead of pieces of the environment. Keep a reasonable distance from the wildlife and leave them alone (unless you're hunting them, of course). Seek out and patronize environmentally aware tour operators and guides. Try to avoid overuse of sunscreen when swimming and snorkeling in fragile waters. Don't touch the coral. Don't bathe in rivers and lakes. |
Sportychick, I understand exactly what you are saying. I recently read a report on National Geographic Traveler about the current state of our national parks. It was a good article. Some of the parks in trouble regarding traffic/pollution include Rocky Mountain Ntl. Park and the Smoky Mountain National Park. Many of the less popular parks seem to be in better shape as well as some Canadian parks. I sometimes wonder should I seek out some parks that have fared better and steer clear of the others or maybe I should try to donate to some of these parks in hopes that they will clean up their act.
For those people who believe that the earth is inevitably getting hotter and there is nothing we can do to slow it down, just remember your kids and grandkids will be living in this world and wouldn't you hate for them to remember our generation as the one who did nothing? |
I too am concerned about my impact on the world both at home and when traveling. I appreciate the original post and the ideas you all have shared. I have a question: are you saying that air travel is more polluting than other forms of transportation? I did a quick search for info on pollution from planes, and what I found indicated that over the miles traveled the impact might even be less. If that is not the case, I would like to know. Thank you!
|
I researched this awhile back and I don't remember the details, but if I remember correctly, although planes pollute more than cars, when you consider the per person pollution (planes with 100 people versus a car with 4, or something along those lines), flying came out as less polluting.
That assumes though that your trip is a choice between driving or flying - such as, will you drive your family of 4 from California to Colorado this summer or will you fly? On the other hand, if your choice is between driving your family of 4 from California to Colorado or flying them from California to Europe, since the trip is longer, the per person pollution will be higher with the trip to Europe. I don't remember the details, but I think that was the gist of what I turned up. |
Don’t travel! The damage done will be irreparable and needless. Sell the car and walk or ride a bike. Live in an igloo or other unheated structure eat uncooked food etc.
For starters do not believe everything that is being peddled. National Geographic Mag Sept 05 says the earths temp is rising and FAST, the average GLOBAL temperature is up a whooping 1 degree - HUH ????????????????? http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0409/feature1/ The temp opinion is that it is supposed to go up 4 degrees in the next ten years but the same people can’t tell me the accurate temp of next year. Opinion fad is that 1 degree so far is a global crisis But for those who seem to think that 1 degree spells doom and buy whole hog into the latest fads of OPIONION then sell the car and walk or ride a bike. Live in an igloo or other unheated structure eat uncooked food etc. rather than legislate that other people do such and such. Example Congressmen trying to get rid of SUV’s but alas the reporter discovers they are the ones driving SUV’s. I guess they meant we should just make it more costly for the little people to drive them. Lately it is 10 below zero or so where I live and I suppose it is probably a bad time to try and peddle global warming here. "horrible (and worsening) state of the environment" Los Angeles air is much better off today than 10, 20, 40 years ago than our present "horrible (and worsening) state of the environment" The Chicago River is not on fire anymore. Etc. You may be sincere but I don’t let these claims or alleged undeniable truths go unchallenged I say stop the perpetuation of doom and gloom based on 1 degree. BUT WAIT as in most things follow the money! I literally profit financially every day I go to work from the global warming scare but I do not believe it. Quote Nat Geo. “There's no question that the Earth is getting hotter—and fast. “ “From Alaska to the snowy peaks of the Andes the world is heating up right now, and fast. Globally, the temperature is up 1°F (.5°C) over the past century,” |
Global climate change is not unsubstantiated speculation that scientists disagree about. The overwhelming majority of climatologists agree that its happening MUCH faster than any of the previous warming/cooling trends, and they all agree that it's because of human activity (see the recent IPCC report).
These aforementioned climatologists, by the way, are eggheads, not hippies. The only reason there is any doubt is because the Noise Machine has been hard at work. Ice core data ranging over thousands of years offer hard evidence and photos of glaciers 50 years ago and today give some pretty clear visual evidence. Even President Bush has finally mumbled that it's happening. There is about a 35 year lag time between the junk that makes it into the atmosphere and the effect we feel (or see) here on earth. The fact that the last 10 years have been among the hottest average temps on record reflect the crud in the atmosphere from the 70's, when the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act were passed. Even if we get our stuff together and make it an international priority, it'll get worse before it gets better. The water and air clean up of the last 40 years should offer hope that, indeed, we can fix things when we make a decision to do it. We just need to decide to act. Travel teaches you about different parts of the world, so don't stop traveling in order to imporve the health of the planet. Alter your lifestyle in general. There are a number of ways you can improve the efficiency of your house and car. Those are two big chunks of the solution. There will always be ostriches who are unwilling to pull their heads out of the sand and look around, but it takes all kinds I guess. |
I like the suggestions lynnejoel offers and am in agreement with scarecrow and aileen.
With regard to global warming, there are nearly 18,000 signatures from scientists worldwide on a petition called The Oregon Petition which says that there is no evidence for man-made global warming theory nor for any impact from mankind's activities on climate. If anyone is interested in going beyond what the party line is trying to feed us, there is much evidence to the contrary. Just for starters look up Richard Lindzen, who has a doctorate in climatology from MIT, or go to http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVF.../ice_ages.html Suze, I don't know in what way you think Hisfollower has broken the subscribers agreement. Isn't he/her just expressing his feelings here just as everyone else is? I say, take it or leave it, as stated by Bill. |
J Correa, Thank you for your answer. Before I checked back here, I continued to be curious about my question, and I found a couple of sites that estimate the amount of co2 emitted by different transport. A trip from New York to LA by air would emit about .54 metric tons (per passenger) and by car would produce about .98. I guess that does not take into account the actual amount of fuel used(?). I also saw articles about environmental concerns regarding de-icers used on planes (and what about salt used on roads?). I found an interesting article titled Trampling Paradise www.ehponline.org/docs/2000/108-5/focus.html which points out some things to think about, such as the ability of one's destination to process sewage and trash.
|
I do side with the scientist majority re climate change.
However, on the subject of travel and the environment, I wish hotels would provide places for paper recycling. Because while I'm traveling I tend to accumulate a lot of paper items that I throw out because there's no place to recycle them...ticket stubs, map printouts, newspapers, brochures, etc. I wish hotels would provide paper recycling bins on each floor or somewhere in the main lobby (if there was a discreet place to put them). And of course, fingers crossed that guests would use them properly and not toss regular garbage in them. Ditto for cans and bottles. |
Agree totally BT - wouldn't you think with all the other things the resorts incorporate into their designs, that it wouldn't be difficult to offer an area for recycling paper, etc - but that would mean the area they were in recycled, and that might not always be a reality either...
A friend said to me once, why should she recycle here trash, which she thought was miniscule compared to the trash airplanes, hotels, etc generate when they don't recycle - while I agreed with her it is frustrating to see the attendants go down the airplane aisle with one bag and everyone tossing in bottles, plastic, paper, etc everyone has to contribute whenever and however they can. I just said to her what happened to every little bit counts and she shrugged. meanwhile there was a horrendous article recently out here about what really happens to the trash we think we are recycling (in our area anyway) ...it wasn't pretty. |
I say travel but don't litter and be an environmental idiot when doing so.
quote. "The only reason there is any doubt is because the Noise Machine has been hard at work." "There will always be ostriches who are unwilling to pull their heads out of the sand and look around, but it takes all kinds I guess." The same was no doubt said about those who said the world was round PRIOR to the historical fad that decided it was flat, and that the Earth was the center of the solar system. I guess I should be thankful for the $5,000 plus per year I have benefited from the Global warming fad. As are those perpetuating it. Hmmm should I as a scientist do another documentary about penguins, polar bears and such or should I jump on the cash cow bandwagon of a crisis. Of course supporters must take money from others and distribute it as seen fit. Money is power. Again follow the money. But I thought those same people were fully on board with the evolution thing, so why are these species not just evolving to cope with a change 1 DEGREE. I cope every day of my life with temperatures varying more than one degree in my environment. I say travel but don't litter and be an environmental idiot when doing so. |
Please all, see my reference for the following reading material in the book section of the lounge. This comes from CHOICE, which is used as a base criteria for college level and above critical/essential library materials.
sobolik, is not far off. I won't retype the entire reviews and the various scientific reports for climitology studies here, but do read it-I will top it over there. Do not feel guilty about your human use of earth's bounty. Waste and supercilious consumption aside, just do- as in the Nike commercials. I truly believe that in 20 or 30 years this issue will be looked upon as a prime level example of "critical thinking" exercise re media, political, humanistic/morality "group-think". And be VERY careful of groups or vendors (resorts) that pride themselves on their "eco". You may not be getting what you think you are. IPCC issues etc. Real science is not cheap. Costs $129.00 Universite' Jean Moulin, France - Marcel Leroux "Global Warming: Myth or Reality? The Erring Ways of Climatology. 509 pages ISBN 354023909X One of many that are saying the Emperor has no clothes on, but this one also addresses the IPCC reports of 1990, 1995 and 2001. |
And between 1101 aprox. and 1230-50 AD there was a larger degree F differential. I assume that there were no SUV's or jets around then.
|
Speaking of Oregon, Maggi, one of the climatologist professors at Oregon State University is currently under fire from the state governor's office for taking the same position as those 18,000 scientists. With the whole of state government now controlled by one political party, he might actually lose his job.
|
Dr. William Gray, a meteorologist at Colorado State University, is part of the group of 18,000 scientists who have signed the petition.
He argues that the studies supporting man-made global warming are the only ones being funded. Young scientists don't dare have an opposing opinion or they will be unable to receive research funding. He feels both sides should receive funding for research. After the studies are complete, put all the scientists into one room to debate the results and LOCK THE MEDIA out. Sounds reasonable to me. |
"Carbon Footprint" is the new buzz word in Corporate Travel. Many corporations are taking this this issue very seriously.
See: http://www.carbonfootprint.com/ |
It just isn't something that can be "supported" definitely by a "side" as assumed, let alone tied so closely to a political outlook. It (weather, climate, planet phases, core etc. etc.) are so complex that it makes nuclear/ sub-nuclear studies or genetics seem a piece of cake in comparison. Greenhouse gases and other mammal related activies are just one factor in not hundreds, but thousands of other factors. And totally erroneous information has been accepted as truth re ocean currents now as well.
If you really feel it harbors disaster, I believe the best thing for you to do, is NOT wear man-made clothing, any synthetics, heat/or act condition any areas in which you live, or use any man-made synthetic housing materials in your abode, and eat only what you can grow. Travel and other considerations re fuels- of course not- that's a given. And don't forget that electrical power and large chemical production/outputs for making things like antibiotics and vaccines. None of that either. In the part of the country I live in (USA) our environment is 10 times better than it was 20 years ago. Measurably, and especially the water. I personally think SUV are monstrosities. But to answer sportychick's question, NO! All the "a little piece of me dies" has nothing to do with evolving physical entities, places, or conditions. It's not even a good benefit for yourself. In fact, a negative one. |
JJ5 thanks for all the reference articles, etc - I am going to look at some of those myself but am most excited about passing them along to my son as he is trying to look at all info
|
<i>I am...most excited about passing them along to my son as he is trying to look at all info.</i>
Good for your son, but best be careful, escargot. In a thread that's since been deleted, I was accused of being un-American and child abuse for encouraging my daughter to do the same. Had to laugh. :-) |
"In the part of the country I live in (USA) our environment is 10 times better than it was 20 years ago. Measurably, and especially the water."
Yes, but what made it bad in the first place, and what helped clean it up? human activity. I can accept that we don't know all the details or all the causes of how the climate may be changing. But I cannot deny that humans have a huge impact on the environment, especially since the industrial age. So to me it's not totally outrageous that man is affecting the climate, and can continue to affect it - for good and bad - as the world's population grows. Even if global change is inevitable, mankind can do its part to slow down the effects, thus giving humans, animals, and plants that much more time to adapt. |
Regardless who deletes you, who critizies you, who has the "truth" within the palm of their hands, it will always remain better to question.
Never forget that the "known" physical world throughout human history has often been supported by social convention, political/economic beliefs and agendas and not provable or truthful by probable trial. That's why men went mad from fear over numerous celestial events, eclipses etc. Change and cycles are never ending features, be it in cell life or in galaxies. Fear is counter-productive. Some scientists are seeing advantages to change, believe it or not. Economically AND environmentally. |
"it will always remain better to question."
absolutely ! my Dad used to say, when you stop questioning, you stop thinking. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:53 AM. |